Zach and Whitney Bates: Part 5

[JesSky03]

Anyone else think Whit's dad looks like Jerry from Parks and Rec? 

[Exjw2015deed]

A poster like two years ago said they had inside knowledge about the relationship and that Kelly made her forgive her birth parents. They cited her privacy for not saying what happened;but Whitney just came out with part of the story. If you’re reading this poster please spill! 

[VBOY9977]

Their photographer just posted more pics (@britconr)

honestly Whit looked radiant! I’m glad she got the wedding she wanted 

[nastyhobbitses]

Whitney looks amazing and her wedding aesthetic is A+.

What is the situation with her parents, though? I know the rumor that Kelly guilt-tripped her into getting back into contact with her birth parents and dumping her adoptive parents, but it's just so weird. And probably unhealthy. All I can think is about how Whitney is a healthy white woman who was a healthy white kid; for her to get placed with unrelated adoptive parents at the age she was, I feel like her birth parents had to have MASSIVELY fucked up. Like, they had to have done some absolutely unforgivable shit for that to have happened. Though I guess that would only be if CPS was involved in the proceedings and it wasn't some informal arrangement. 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Whitney looks amazing and her wedding aesthetic is A+.

What is the situation with her parents, though? I know the rumor that Kelly guilt-tripped her into getting back into contact with her birth parents and dumping her adoptive parents, but it's just so weird. And probably unhealthy. All I can think is about how Whitney is a healthy white woman who was a healthy white kid; for her to get placed with unrelated adoptive parents at the age she was, I feel like her birth parents had to have MASSIVELY fucked up. Like, they had to have done some absolutely unforgivable shit for that to have happened. Though I guess that would only be if CPS was involved in the proceedings and it wasn't some informal arrangement. 

We have next to no clue. All we know is she somehow ended up with the Owens family when she was in her late teens and that her biological parents were back in her life by the time Bradley was born. We’ve never had confirmation it was a formal adoption or that any government agency was involved at all. We know that the adoptive family was at the wedding and haven’t been shown with Whitney since. We also know, thanks to her post, that Whitney carries a lot of guilt for apparently causing the rift between herself and her biological parents - something that doesn’t sit well with me considering she was a minor when whatever happened happened. I hope her parents have done a good deal of introspection on their roles in whatever went on and that they too have asked her forgiveness. 

Other than that? Nothing. 

[miss_batson]

Simply beautiful pitcures 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlME9rbHSyC/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1nzhcozli7m9d

[JermajestyDuggar]

That post just tells me I hope Whitney goes to therapy one day. 

[nastyhobbitses]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That post just tells me I hope Whitney goes to therapy one day. 

I also hope she doesn't teach her own kids that it's their fault if their parents are lose-custody-level shitty and THEY should be the ones asking forgiveness, not the other way around. 

[Joyfully Available]

I’m with the others on the snark. This was Whit’s chance to get the wedding she always wanted. Especially after watching so many Pinteresty weddings from Duggar girls & all their trips to Ms. Renee’s! I feel like they haven’t been married long enough for a vow renewal though...

As always, I’m amazed by the amount of money Zach & Whit have to blow on non essentials. I’m guessing Up maybe paid for some things? It’s another story line I guess.  Anyone know how her real estate career is going? I’m telling ya’ll someone in that relationship has to be bringing in $$$ somewhere to cover purchasing & renovating a new home, a constant string of perfectly coordinated non thrift outfits, home furnishings, trips, monthly updated professional pictures (lol), hair, nails, enormous bows for Kaci Lynn & all of Whit’s other shopping. I always comment on this topic because I live in the south (border state to the Bates) & I know small town cops make squat here & over there. $28-30,000 a year just a state over where I am. I’d love to know how they hustle so I can too! Haha. 

On a separate note, I love Whitney’s style & I think she looked amazing. I’m glad she got what she wanted. Aside from my snark & speculation about their financial status, I always enjoy seeing what she has on & the cute kid pics. 

Let’s hope this renewal doesn’t mean another baby for her anytime soon. 

[nastyhobbitses]

13 minutes ago, Joyfully Available said:

As always, I’m amazed by the amount of money Zach & Whit have to blow on non essentials. I’m guessing Up maybe paid for some things? It’s another story line I guess.  Anyone know how her real estate career is going? I’m telling ya’ll someone in that relationship has to be bringing in $$$ somewhere to cover purchasing & renovating a new home, a constant string of perfectly coordinated non thrift outfits, home furnishings, trips, monthly updated professional pictures (lol), hair, nails, enormous bows for Kaci Lynn & all of Whit’s other shopping. I always comment on this topic because I live in the south (border state to the Bates) & I know small town cops make squat here & over there. $28-30,000 a year just a state over where I am. I’d love to know how they hustle so I can too! Haha. 

I'm gonna guess that apart from Zach's likely piddly pay, Whitney's job as a real estate agent (which likely pays around the same or perhaps a bit more), money they get from UP (I think that helps a LOT), the relative low cost of living, buying from outlet/discount stores (you'd be surprised how much nice shit you can get at TJMaxx; I frequently go there to buy higher-end/Korean makeup because of how good the markdowns are) and DIYing a lot of their renos help them afford a lot of shit. Still, even then, they do seem to live a rather expensive lifestyle for how much money they seem to pull in. 

 

EDIT: Not sure if the number is skewed by what agents make in urban areas like Nashville or if the number is reflective of positions more senior than what Whitney likely is given her age and how long she's been at it, but according to Glassdoor, real estate agents in Tennessee make an average of just under 80 grand a year. That is a damn good salary. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, Joyfully Available said:

I’m with the others on the snark. This was Whit’s chance to get the wedding she always wanted. Especially after watching so many Pinteresty weddings from Duggar girls & all their trips to Ms. Renee’s! I feel like they haven’t been married long enough for a vow renewal though...

As always, I’m amazed by the amount of money Zach & Whit have to blow on non essentials. I’m guessing Up maybe paid for some things? It’s another story line I guess.  Anyone know how her real estate career is going? I’m telling ya’ll someone in that relationship has to be bringing in $$$ somewhere to cover purchasing & renovating a new home, a constant string of perfectly coordinated non thrift outfits, home furnishings, trips, monthly updated professional pictures (lol), hair, nails, enormous bows for Kaci Lynn & all of Whit’s other shopping. I always comment on this topic because I live in the south (border state to the Bates) & I know small town cops make squat here & over there. $28-30,000 a year just a state over where I am. I’d love to know how they hustle so I can too! Haha. 

On a separate note, I love Whitney’s style & I think she looked amazing. I’m glad she got what she wanted. Aside from my snark & speculation about their financial status, I always enjoy seeing what she has on & the cute kid pics. 

Let’s hope this renewal doesn’t mean another baby for her anytime soon. 

I would totally agree that they spend money more than a lot of the other fundies. But I will say that the house could have been pretty cheap (which means a low mortgage payment). Plus Whit was probably the person who did all the paperwork so they didn’t have to pay a real estate agent to do that. They seemed to do a lot of the Reno themselves which would save a lot of money as well. I’m not saying they are rich but people in very low cost of living areas can seem rich because they can afford things that would be astronomical in other places. With Zach’s income, her income from selling houses, and the income from UP may add up to living a nice lifestyle in a LCOL area. I don’t think any of those incomes by themselves are large though. 

ETA: I see nastyhobbitses and I just said the same thing!

[LillyP]

The wedding photographer in me is all....you go Whit and get that gorgeous wedding you dreamed of! They look stunning and those photos are amazing. I'm sure the wedding they had was all Kelly, coupled with not having much money to spend on it. Now they are independent adults and clearly do what they want. I LOVE that she went with modern non-modest dress.

[SassyPants]

I can see having a party and fancy dress, but a full on vow renewal/wedding ceremony at 4.5 years, nope. Eccentric, odd and totally lacking in terms of "modest" lifestyle parameters-

Bridesmaids? 

There has to be more to these folks' lifestyles that warrant a TEEEEVEEE show. 

[squiddysquid]

Sure the renewal was a UPTV thing.

But Whitney looks so stunning!

They seemed to enjoy it and the budget for the first wedding was probably very limited. Now they got some cute pics with the kiddos out of it as well. Win-win.

 And again that dress 

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[Palimpsest]

On 7/9/2018 at 3:58 PM, BeccaGrim said:

What is the Gothard-ian/Cult take on adopting? Is that an option for Michael? 

Here's an article from Recovering Grace that goes into Gothard's original stance on adoption in detail.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/10/adoption-the-ultimate-act-of-grace/

On 7/10/2018 at 11:19 AM, formergothardite said:

Originally Gothard was fairly anti-adoption but he cut it short of saying it was totally wrong. Any ATI family that wanted to adopt had to first contact the Institute and discuss it with them. Gothard had a booklet on adoption that was fairly doom and gloom. He warned that adopted children would bring the sins of their fathers into the home. Now that adoption is trending among fundies and evangelicals, that belief has pretty much fallen to the side and I doubt they push it anymore. 

I doubt it too.  The big Evangelical adoption pushed Gothard's sins of the father stance into the background.  OTOH, people like Nancy Campbell and the Above Rubies crowd having discovered the drawbacks of adopting for Jesus are now moving closer to Gothard's point of view. 

@Pecansforeveryone has already referred to Kathryn Joyce's book The Child Catchers.  It should be required reading for everyone I think.  Here's a link but it should be available in most libraries: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BKRW582/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Some of those Evangelical adoptions worked out well but the number of children abused, neglected, exploited, deserted, and rehomed due to that push is dismaying.  Sean Paddock, Lydia Schatz, and Hana Alemu (Williams) have been discussed here many times, but they were actual homicides.

On 7/10/2018 at 7:25 PM, Melissa1977 said:

You know the happy shiny part of adoption and I know the shadowed one. Both are real.

Indeed. @Hisey  views adoption through rose colored glasses, possibly because she is an adoptive mother and supposedly works in domestic adoption in the US.   One hopes she works for a reputable agency, performs, careful home inspections, and her agency offers ongoing support for adoptive parents. 

Adoption can be a very wonderful thing.  However, Hisey seems to be ignorant of the dark side of adoption or completely in denial about it to the extent of spreading misinformation.  She should read the Child Catchers too and do her own research to see how many children fall through the gaping holes of the Hague Convention. 

Adoption is, in fact, a risk factor for abuse and neglect.  It is possible that parents have more inhibition about abusing a biological child than an adopted one. It is also possible that parents find it harder to bond with an older adopted child, and the risks increase when the child is available for adoption due to special needs.

Adoptions do go bad.  Here's one site that documents the child abuse of adopted and fostered children in the US.   http://poundpuplegacy.org/

Child abuse is also easier to hide in families that home school their children, whether they are adopted or not.   http://hsinvisiblechildren.org/

[nausicaa]

16 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

No no no!!! He will try to sing again!!!

My favorite Jim-Bob quote of all time: "Isn't that every lady's dream?"

No, JB. I can assure you, it is not.

[Lurky]

14 hours ago, Exjw2015deed said:

A poster like two years ago said they had inside knowledge about the relationship and that Kelly made her forgive her birth parents. They cited her privacy for not saying what happened;but Whitney just came out with part of the story. If you’re reading this poster please spill! 

Was that the poster who was oh-so-close to the Duggars and the Bateses, a family friend who had delicious gossip, except it was pretty clear she'd never actually met them?  Or the one whose mother was best friends with Jeremy Vuolo's mother, when he first showed up, and had all the stories about how the Vuolos were liberal and completely unFundy and horrified by the Duggar connection (rather than being a homeschooling family running the church group Jeremy belongs to, including a pray-away-the-gay "ministry)?

There have been so many trolls trying to get their fanfic shared as truth, for so many different reasons, that I automatically assume malice/lies when people stop by to share what really happens with the families - unless they've been actually verified by the admins here.  I'd love to know more about why they do it, but 99% of the time they're just making it all up.

[TatertotAsserole]

I didn't know Whitney's Dad was Gary/Jerry/Larry/Terry Gergich. Gary would never miss a family event! He leaves the Pawnee Parks office promptly at five to spend time with Gail and the girls.

[HermioneSparrow]

Bradley looks so much like Whitney's father.

[just_ordinary]

What I find very interesting is Zach. We speculated a lot about how Whitney finally got her dream wedding but this is as much as Zachs too. I wonder if he just doesn’t care for his parents modest rules anymore (maybe never did) or doesn’t want to fill in the headship role at all. It always seems to be Whitney who encourages change and he just lets her decide and seems to be very happy with it.

Or is he proud to show off his beautiful doll wife? And Whitney feels pressured to keep up her looks?

The dress is a huge stretch not only for his parents but also for many conservative families (though not as revealing as the pink top she wore in a TH).

I really don’t know what to believe with them - they are my pet fundies so I often tend to choose the nicer interpretation but I still wonder.

[jakesykora]

So since you all are amazing at figuring things like this out, anyone ever seen a dress similar to Whit's?

In comments she says she got it from Renee's (of course, I guess I should have guessed since it's the new go to for all Bates/Duggar tied gals) but I'd love something similar if anyone has had cause to be looking lately and seen anything along the same lines.

[VelociRapture]

6 hours ago, Lurky said:

Was that the poster who was oh-so-close to the Duggars and the Bateses, a family friend who had delicious gossip, except it was pretty clear she'd never actually met them?  Or the one whose mother was best friends with Jeremy Vuolo's mother, when he first showed up, and had all the stories about how the Vuolos were liberal and completely unFundy and horrified by the Duggar connection (rather than being a homeschooling family running the church group Jeremy belongs to, including a pray-away-the-gay "ministry)?

There have been so many trolls trying to get their fanfic shared as truth, for so many different reasons, that I automatically assume malice/lies when people stop by to share what really happens with the families - unless they've been actually verified by the admins here.  I'd love to know more about why they do it, but 99% of the time they're just making it all up.

I remember a poster a while back who claimed to have exchanged private messages with Whitney’s adoptive* mother about the situation. I don’t recall who the poster was or whether they were credible though. The poster said she was an acquaintance of the Owens family. She went on to claim that Mrs. Owens stated that they no longer had contact with Whitney by Whit’s choice, they still loved her, and they were very sad by the loss of contact. 

But, again, I have no clue whether this poster was credible or not. It’s possible they were, but it’s also possible it was a minor trolling moment. I understand if this person avoided providing screenshots in order to protect the privacy of/defend the Owenses and/or Whitney - but I don’t feel comfortable accepting their story as fact without verification from the Admins.

*We still have no clue whether Whitney was actually adopted or not. I’m just using that term because it’s the easiest way to distinguish between the families. 

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

I remember a poster a while back who claimed to have exchanged private messages with Whitney’s adoptive* mother about the situation. I don’t recall who the poster was or whether they were credible though. The poster said she was an acquaintance of the Owens family. She went on to claim that Mrs. Owens stated that they no longer had contact with Whitney by Whit’s choice, they still loved her, and they were very sad by the loss of contact. 

But, again, I have no clue whether this poster was credible or not. It’s possible they were, but it’s also possible it was a minor trolling moment. I understand if this person avoided providing screenshots in order to protect the privacy of/defend the Owenses and/or Whitney - but I don’t feel comfortable accepting their story as fact without verification from the Admins.

*We still have no clue whether Whitney was actually adopted or not. I’m just using that term because it’s the easiest way to distinguish between the families. 

I remember that too. Screenshots are a bit problematic for me though. You can safe any number under any name and fake a chat. 

Additionally, there are always two sides (or three sides in this one) in cases like that. The Owens might feel that they still love Whitney and be sad that she cut the contact but Whitney‘s story might be different. We have no idea if she liked living with them/ how they treated her.

We basically know absolutely nothing about the why’s here. Whitney doesn’t seem to want to talk about it and she sure as hell doesn’t have to. My bet is no one outside will ever know the full story in all its variations experienced by the people involved.

[Dandruff]

On 7/13/2018 at 7:29 PM, neurogirl said:

Poor Anna needs a wedding redo too but only if it’s not a redemption vow renewal with Turd.

I still remember their engagement at that gator place, and how set up I thought she was - a prop for TV.  Had there been full disclosure of Josh's bad behavior?  What if she was having second thoughts, wasn't quite ready to say yes, but was too intimidated to say anything but yes?

I also wonder what kind of guy she might have ended up with if it hadn't been Josh.  The other Keller sons-in-law seem to have their own issues. 

 

[Kaylo]

Why do I feel like I remember that Whitney basically had some kind of falling out with her parents, moved in with a friend’s parents, and those were her “adoptive” parents and it was when she was like 17? Am I completely making that up or does anyone else remember that too?

My cousin lived with my parents during his teen years. His senior year he basically decided that he didn’t want to follow the family rules anymore (fairly strict, but not abusive or crazy) and moved in with his friend’s family. It is pretty common and often happens because the teenager is being a teenager. Who knows if that’s what happened with Whitney.