Seewalds 32: The Big If

[PainfullyAware]

*Trigger warning*

I was a high functioning uni student with a very stressful past (toxic divorce, parents with depression and anger mgmt issues). I was prone to crying fits, hopelessness but never knew it was out of the ordinary until it turned into self harming as a coping mechanism. I sought treatment quickly but was travelling a lot in stressful humanitarian contexts so didn't really get better. It was a monthly thing at most. Then I got depressed and the meds really messed me up- couldn't sleep, suicidal ideation, frequent self harming. Basicallly all the warnings on the label. I finally got off them and felt better. I was diagnosed with depression by my GP based on a questionnaire and the self-harm and was kind of an evident diagnosis but no underlying diagnosis was ever sought.

Later I developed chronic pain. If I hadn't researched my symptoms thoroughly, figured out what it most likely was, advocated for the right referrals and finally had it confirmed by specialists, I would probably still be out in medical nowhere land waiting for some doctor to help me. During the waiting process I had several panic attacks. I didn't think I was dying but I felt profoundly unsafe and was sure something was going to happen to me- lots of crying and hyperventilating. It's definitely not something to joke about having.

I had a therapist essentially laugh at me for admitting it sometimes felt like my family issues would only be resolved when my parents had passed on, not something I want to have happen, but something my frustration sometimes makes me feel like is the case. After that I instead tried cognitive behavioral therapy in a group and mindfulness-based stress reduction. I found that since practicing mindfulness meditation I have not had any self-harming or panic attacks. I still have chronic illness and definitely feel like it's hard for people to take invisible illness seriously. It's really nice to read about the validating and supportive posts hear about other people's experiences!

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

@PainfullyAware I'm glad you feel safe enough to disclose this here! It's extremely invalidating to have professionals who don't do their due diligence to figure out what's going on and treat you like you're making things up. I'm so happy you were able to advocate for your needs and found something that's helping you cope in a healthy way.

[FundieCentral]

18 hours ago, singsingsing said:

How should we feel about it? Ashamed? 

How are they taking medication for things that are self-diagnosed? Unless they're buying this medication illegally, a doctor or psychiatrist must have prescribed it, right?

How do you know that it's not an underlying mental illness that's causing that issue, rather than the other way around? Often when people are mentally ill they have significant trouble addressing underlying problems in their lives. That's why mental illness can be so devastating and debilitating. 

Are you a psychologist, a psychiatrist or a doctor? How can you possibly say that someone must not have an anxiety disorder simply because they don't 'show symptoms' when you go out with them? People with anxiety disorders have often made an art of appearing 'normal' no matter what is going on inside of them. How can you possibly judge that?

I don't mean to bash you because I'm sure you don't mean it maliciously, but the attitudes you're expressing here are a huge part of the reason that the stigma of mental illness is alive and well. 

@singsingsing: Oh no worries, this is what I was expecting, that’s why I prefaced it with opinions incoming  I don’t get offended, so it’s absolutely fine. 

Just to clarify: this is really not a me vs. you situation. I realize that my opinion diverges from the mainstream, that’s why I’m careful not to accuse anyone of anything or identify anyone in what I say. But I do think it can be important to hear alternative perspectives, that’s why I’m posting. 

If it helps to clarify where I come from, I’m happy to share more. I’ve been to more than one psychiatric hospital, I’ve been on multiple medications, I’ve been diagnosed with 10+ things at various points by various people. As a result, I know a lot of people with mental illness. I never specifically counted, but the vast majority of people I know technically have or had a mental illness. If I stigmatize mental illness, then I’m really living the wrong life  

But to answer your points in detail: 

Quote

“How should we feel about it? Ashamed?”

Nope, absolutely not! But I know a lot of people for whom their mental illness is more than an illness. So unlike someone with for example asthma or diabetes, who feels no particular emotion toward it and arranges their life with those restrictions in mind, but otherwise attempts to live normally (even if it’s not always possible), some people really identify with their mental illness to the point where it becomes their primary identity in life. In my experience, this is highly correlated with low success in treatment because those individuals feel like they’re “giving something up” or “losing themselves” by actively working to improve their mental illness. That sense of pride (which can manifest in different ways, e.g. “I’m special because I have this, this distinguishes me from other people”) prevents often individuals from finding other things in life that they can take pride in that they might not ultimately die from if left untreated. 

Quote

“How are they taking medication for things that are self-diagnosed? Unless they're buying this medication illegally, a doctor or psychiatrist must have prescribed it, right?”

Because it is very easy to get a doctor to prescribe psychiatric medications, especially in countries where no psychiatrist is required. I have friends who deal with pills that they get for illnesses they do not have. Obviously anecdotal, but it’s a thing I’ve observed. I still have bottles of pills at home from well-meaning doctors who gave me a 90 day supply after a 10 minute consultation in which the doctor just agreed to whatever I suggested I needed. This is obviously related to inadequacies in the healthcare systems, lack of counseling available etc. But it’s quite dangerous because some psychotropic medications can do permanent damage. 

Quote

“How do you know that it's not an underlying mental illness that's causing that issue, rather than the other way around? Often when people are mentally ill they have significant trouble addressing underlying problems in their lives. That's why mental illness can be so devastating and debilitating.”

Obviously. But when you know someone intimately for many years and in many different life situations, you can tell the difference. I’m not making these judgments about strangers. It worries me that people i care about internalize problems rather than address them directly, often out of fear that that could cause repercussions, thinking that it’s better to be miserable. In my experience, a mental illness gives you a sort of shield from the world because it shifts your focus from big problems to (too) small ones (with serious consequences). But that’s how you spend 5 years of your life going in a circle/in and out of psych wards. I didn’t stop doing all the things I did to self-destruct until I entered  adulthood and decided that enough was enough, and I wasn’t going to be stuck like that anymore. So many people I care about are still hospitalized, waiting for something to change so that they can finally start living, but recovery usually starts when you take charge of your life and well-being. 

Quote

“Are you a psychologist, a psychiatrist or a doctor? How can you possibly say that someone must not have an anxiety disorder simply because they don't 'show symptoms' when you go out with them? People with anxiety disorders have often made an art of appearing 'normal' no matter what is going on inside of them. How can you possibly judge that?”

I studied psychology before dropping out because I found scientific research in the field very disappointing  but that’s beside the point. Well, this particular situation is 5 people, of which I’m one of the diagnosed ones, and other friends. Again, I’m not judging this based off a one-time interaction. I’ve seen and met enough people who have severely debilitating anxiety, I’ve talked people out of suicide because they couldn’t breathe for days. That’s why I’m criticizing the blase attitude toward mental illness. It’s not pretty, it’s not cool,  and it shouldn’t be taken that lightly. Claiming a label if you don’t/no longer fulfil the criteria and then telling others that this is what life with xy is like is disingenuous in my opinion, and it can be dangerous because it both gives off a wrong image of mental illness and jeopardizes those in recovery. 

Basically: I firmly believe that not every emotion or mental struggle is a permanently disabling mental illness, and we are often too quick to diagnose and then confront young people with projections for their life which may never come true, simply because they checked off some boxes in a questionnaire, instead of allowing them to develop their own person and learning for themselves where their vulnerabilities lie and how to best work with or around them. Everybody has their challenge. Mental illness is one of many. And often, people change, lives change, and people get better (and sometimes worse, unfortunately, but statistically less often!). That’s a reason to be hopeful, I think.  Oh yes, and I absolutely endorse therapy, especially DBT.

I hope that makes more sense! 

 

[CrazyMumma]

Peeps, I hear you about the self diagnosis thing... but sometimes it's the only way to make sense of stuff when help is denied.  From the age of 13 I was suicidal.  Often thought about doing it.  After my nephew died of SIDS at 3.5 months I started experiencing what I call 'panic attacks'.  Palpitations, hyperventilating, uncontrollable screaming.. major headache afterwards.  It's not something I talk about.  My parents refused to take me to a Dr due to my suicidal feelings.  I struggled with constant exhaustion, headaches, and depressed emotions.  I was not allowed medical help.  I was called lazy as I struggled to walk up hill due to exhaustion.  Honestly.. it's not something that I talk about and it's not a chip I wear on my shoulder.  But sometimes young kids don't have options for help.  If you can get help?  Drs don't always take you seriously.  I went to the Dr after my baby was 1 yr old as I was falling asleep up to 3 times a day.  Was too tired to get off the couch.   The Dr told me I needed to drink more water and eat fresh food.  I was mad as I only drink water and eat as well as you can when you can't get off the couch.

I ended up in hospital Nov last year unable to walk due to muscle weakness.  After being in hospital for a week they told me science couldn't explain it.  I suspect now I had a nervous breakdown/ anxiety attacks as the 'temporary paralysis' has occurred after stressful incidents.  It's so hard to get help.

[Jellybean]

3 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

 

<SNIP> I know a lot of people for whom their mental illness is more than an illness. So unlike someone with for example asthma or diabetes, who feels no particular emotion toward it and arranges their life with those restrictions in mind, but otherwise attempts to live normally (even if it’s not always possible), some people really identify with their mental illness to the point where it becomes their primary identity in life. In my experience, this is highly correlated with low success in treatment because those individuals feel like they’re “giving something up” or “losing themselves” by actively working to improve their mental illness. That sense of pride (which can manifest in different ways, e.g. “I’m special because I have this, this distinguishes me from other people”) prevents often individuals from finding other things in life that they can take pride in that they might not ultimately die from if left untreated. 

I know far more people with severe asthma than severe mental illness, and many of them are completely unable to live a normal life, but are constantly in and out of hospital. Many of them are intensely involved in asthma support groups and consider asthma an integral part of the way they see themselves.

I wonder if part of your viewpoint might come from your friendships with people who have severe mental illness - it has such a huge impact on their lives, everyday experience, and ability to plan for the future (as with the asthmatic friends I described above) that it’s incredibly difficult to find a strong identity that doesn’t include the diagnosis.

Perhaps those with any severe illness that affects almost every second of every day are more likely, by necessity, to integrate the diagnosis into the way they see themselves.

Not something I’ve observed, but you might be right about people finding it hard to focus on recovery and finding other ways to view themselves as their condition improves. I could see this being the case if someone has focused on one thing for a long time - maybe that’s something that could be incorporated into treatment plans - helping people to accept and define themselves in healthy ways; accepting improvement leading to changed circumstances would seem as important as being able to accept a new disability and changed circumstances, for example.

[singsingsing]

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

I realize that my opinion diverges from the mainstream

No, it doesn't. Your opinion is mainstream. That's the problem.

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

If I stigmatize mental illness, then I’m really living the wrong life

Maybe you should examine that.

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

So unlike someone with for example asthma or diabetes, who feels no particular emotion

Seriously? You're losing me here. You can't possibly believe that people with asthma or diabetes feel no particular emotion about it and that aside from managing their symptoms it has no effect on their lives - right? I'll defer to @Jellybean's excellent response on this subject, I think.

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

But that’s how you spend 5 years of your life going in a circle/in and out of psych wards. I didn’t stop doing all the things I did to self-destruct until I entered  adulthood and decided that enough was enough, and I wasn’t going to be stuck like that anymore. So many people I care about are still hospitalized, waiting for something to change so that they can finally start living, but recovery usually starts when you take charge of your life and well-being. 

"Here is what worked for me. Now I've recovered! Hey, what the heck is wrong with all these other people who aren't me? Why can't they just be like me? How annoying! All they need to do is decide enough is enough! Duh!"

Congratulations on your recovery. Do you know how many times in my life I decided that 'enough was enough', that I wasn't going to be 'stuck like that anymore' and that NOW was the time for change? Unless you're actually in these people's heads, you really don't know, do you? You talk like you know these people better than they know themselves. You don't. I don't know you or these people, but I can almost guarantee you that you don't know them as well as you think you do. You're so sure that you're right and they're wrong and if they could only get their heads together and be more like you, they'd get better, it's like you can't even conceive that that may not be true.

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

I studied psychology before dropping out because I found scientific research in the field very disappointing

Oh wow, I really wish you had put this as a disclaimer at the top of your post. Yes, I've known a few people like you. They start studying X, become disillusioned, drop out, and now they're experts ready to share their wealth of knowledge about why X is wrong. Thank you for not wasting everyone's time by elaborating.

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

Basically: I firmly believe that not every emotion or mental struggle is a permanently disabling mental illness, and we are often too quick to diagnose and then confront young people with projections for their life which may never come true, simply because they checked off some boxes in a questionnaire, instead of allowing them to develop their own person and learning for themselves where their vulnerabilities lie and how to best work with or around them.

Totally agree with you on this one! But the problem is that for every teenager being falsely diagnosed with depression and put on medication that may be unnecessary and told things about their future that may lead to fatalistic thinking, there are probably five other teenagers who ARE mentally ill, who DO need help, and who are NOT getting the help they need because they're not being taken seriously. Because even now there is a stigma surrounding mental illness in our society, and people are more concerned that some teenagers on tumblr think it's trendy to have anxiety than that there are actual teenagers with anxiety disorders who are not being helped. You know what prevented me from developing into my own person and learning for myself where my vulnerabilities lie and how to best work with or around them? Not being diagnosed and not being helped!

8 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

I hope that makes more sense! 

I wasn't confused by your original post. I disagreed with the sentiments I quoted, and I still do. 

 

If anyone else would like to attack the credibility of people with mental illness, or insinuate that psychology is bunk, sorry, my energy for this bullshit has officially been depleted. 

[AtlanticTug]

9 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Seriously? You're losing me here. You can't possibly believe that people with asthma or diabetes feel no particular emotion about it and that aside from managing their symptoms it has no effect on their lives - right? I'll defer to @Jellybean's excellent response on this subject, I think.

I was also going to say that comment was eyebrow-raise worthy.

Do you really think that those of us who would not survive without multiple doses of insulin a day have "no particular emotion" about it and don't see ourselves as diabetics? I mean this is an all-consuming effort to STAY ALIVE, it's not about don't eat a donut, it's literally about waking up every morning. I've accidentally overdosed on insulin, as many Type 1 diabetics will tell you happens. That's a life-and-death situation, so off you go to the ER and then you feel so awful for days after. Calculating every damn meal, making sure you exercise, etc. Yes, you live so it doesn't take over your life but it's there 24/7. Really a bizarre comment from you to make - maybe you're just not familiar with how diabetes works or you're thinking of people who have some slight insulin resistance and can control it with just lowering carbs?

[SamiKatz]

I have been diagnosed with anxiety, and I now have a joke that if I go to my doctor with a broken leg she will tell me it's my anxiety.

Also:  I have asthma and absolutely have emotions about it.  Having an attack/not being able to breath is really very frightening and I have moments of dread when reading about people who have died as the result of an attack.

And diabetes is a terrible disease, I know people who have lost one limb at a time to it. It can takeaway eyesight.  Constant blood monitoring.  I cannot imagine thinking they don't have strong emotions around their disease.   Sorry, but I think that's crazy talk and very shortsighted.

 

 

[Ali]

On 4/3/2018 at 6:37 PM, singsingsing said:

I'm almost positive that I have dyslexia but I cannot afford to be formally diagnosed" 

I would like to add to this. I also think it is dangerous for parents to self diagnose their children.

One of my in laws SOTDRT homeschools her children. She has diagnosed both her kids with dyslexia and takes them to a dyslexia tutor who Mr. A and I suspect is a self educated homeschooling mom who also self diagnosed her kids.

She constantly talks about how her kids struggle because of dyslexia. She has determined one of her children will never be able to understand math because of the diagnosis she made and she constantly talks about it in front of her kids. I am student teaching for secondary mathematics and have offered to try to help her daughter multiple times for free.  She had never taken me up on it. She told me that her daughter is worried about math in college. I told her that most have free tutoring services, but those are not necessarily because the dyslexia tutor will still be willing to tutor her. 

It is entirely possible that her daughters have dyslexia and her daughter could have a learning disability that makes it extremely difficult for her to learn mathematics. What frustrates me is she is not actually getting a diagnosis to see if her kids have actually have dyslexia, checking if there are other learning disabilities, talking about their inability to learn constantly in front of them, and not doing everything she can to help them.

[Carm_88]

I assure you that I have a lot of feelings about my pain. When I'm sitting in my room trying not to cry with a bean bag on my shoulder trying to ease the pain, I'm feeling something. It's anger, it's sadness, it's knowing that I will never be the same person that I was. Yep, there are a lot of feelings going through my head. 

Pain sucks, be it mental or physical. 

[mizandry]

I fucking wish recovery was as simple as just having some will power and deciding that enough is enough. Brains don't work like that. 

[Escadora]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Totally agree with you on this one! But the problem is that for every teenager being falsely diagnosed with depression and put on medication that may be unnecessary and told things about their future that may lead to fatalistic thinking, there are probably five other teenagers who ARE mentally ill, who DO need help, and who are NOT getting the help they need because they're not being taken seriously. Because even now there is a stigma surrounding mental illness in our society, and people are more concerned that some teenagers on tumblr think it's trendy to have anxiety than that there are actual teenagers with anxiety disorders who are not being helped. You know what prevented me from developing into my own person and learning for myself where my vulnerabilities lie and how to best work with or around them? Not being diagnosed and not being helped!

Oh, @singsingsing , I wish I could upvote/like this post more than once, because it just rings so true. And thank you for answering my earlier question, hopefully we'll both with time be able to mend our relationships with the medical field and feel confident in seeking whatever help we may need. And I wish the same out there for anyone else who's struggled.

And also, things develop, change, and get worse over time. Sure, not every time of feeling down or anxious will develop into depression or anxiety, and people should absolutely be taught coping mechanisms as they grow that will allow them to handle the world, but even preventative measures will not stop all cases of mental illness. It happened to me, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about. And though I don't have everyone's experience, the only way I can word my views on this is through the lens of my own experience, having decided not to pursue medical psychology/mental illness as a career choice, so I do hope you'll all forgive my repetition on some things.

With regards to some people making their mental illness their entire personality, it seems kind of obvious to me that that shouldn't be a surprise. Our personalities are formed in our brain and are heavily influenced by our experiences. I may have hobbies, passions, and interests that have nothing to do with my anxiety, but almost everything I do, and act out in my day-to-day life has to be carefully planned around avoiding another 'episode' (which is not avoiding my responsibilities so much as it is completing them without ruining myself in the process). I can't be spontaneous about anything more than a change of plans on where to eat dinner unless I want to get a stomach ache from worry. Surprise tests or expectations that I haven't had the time to properly engage with make me tearful and prone to stammering, and this is with a regular therapy schedule. I won't even get into the other, worse symptoms I can experience, but I can be a pretty exhausting person to be around, I've been told... as though I didn't wish I could catch a quick train down to London and watch a show, or decide to sleep somewhere other than my own home in my own bed on a whim. They tell me I’m difficult as though I didn’t wish I had a ‘normal’ brain that allows me to do ‘normal’ things like a ‘normal’ person.

I’m so awkward and overly analytical about group social settings, constantly wondering if I’ve said the wrong thing, or leaned over too far, or held eye-contact for too long, and then I stop engaging and am ‘stand-offish’ or unengaged. It’s a constant balancing act to have mental difficulties (and even now, in a place where I can talk about it freely, there’s still this hesitence to call myself mentally ill, because of some stupid sense of shame that I shouldn’t have to feel), and though I can’t claim to have the experience of everyone here, I will for sure advocate for anyone to not be made feel bad for being the way they are just because it might inconvenience somebody who they have no obligation to please.

And, until such a time comes where my entire life isn’t conducted around the task of keeping myself able to function in the way society expects from adults despite having this anxiety disorder, it will be a big part of who I am, and I can’t help that. I do my best to pretend it’s not a part of me, but my strongest moments and ones I’m most proud of have come when I’ve acknowledged my anxiety and worked with it, rather than against it, to accomplish what I’ve needed to. If there wasn’t this stigma and shame associated with mental illness then, and I’m aware I’m repeating myself but screw it, it wouldn’t have to be such a big deal, and it wouldn’t have to be someone’s whole life, because there would be help freely available and given, and support structures in place even for those whose mental worries may be thankfully temporary.

To me it seems sometimes that people would rather be 'right' than compassionate and understanding, and I just don't get it. 

[justoneoftwo]

I think this is such a complicated subject that deserves everyone looking more closely.  I've been diagnosed with depression and been medicated 3 different times in my life (I actually now question that diagnosis as a hormone treatment has helped the worst of my symptoms, but thats another issue).  I'm also dyslexic.  I have felt that doctors were trying to medicate me out of normal human problems.  Part of that may have been bad medication, but part of it was that at the time I literally could not see the world the way it objectively was.  When I attempted suicide I literally believed no one would care, or that my friends who would care would ever know because they didn't live near me.  I had plane tickets to see them 2 weeks from then.  They were always super excited that I was going to see them.  Even if my family didn't care like I thought they would, the people I specifically thought would care would have known, how could they not?  

So yes, I do think that sometimes we want everyone to feel and act the same, and its a problem.  But when people were trying to "take away" my emotions, they weren't.  They were trying to get me to see reality the way it was.  

Saying that the increase in mental illness is medicating normal emotions adds to those of us who felt that way and didn't want their help.  Its a problem.

I hope this post made sense, I'm not sure it did.

[RubyRei]

Everyone is going through different things and is in different stages of “recovery” or “coping” and while some things may be theoretically true, they aren’t really true for everyone in that particular moment. 

I had seen quite a few therapists in the past who have told me things along the lines of “change your thinking” and “don’t let these problems be your whole life,” but I COULDN’T and they WERE. 

If someone other than a therapist tells me/would have told me that shit, I would straight up wanted to smack them. 

Identifying with my illnesses was a coping mechanism. It was what allowed me to feel validated in a world that made me feel like a lie and it’s what made me not feel *as* guilty about not being able to do things that everyone else could do because I was sick and it wasn’t my fault. It made me feel safe. Was this good for me or was this bad for me? I don’t think there’s a solid answer to that necessarily, it’s just what worked when I needed something to hold onto. 

Currently, I am on five different psychiatric medications that are “controlling” my mental illnesses probably the best they’ve been controlled my entire life. This is because I happen to finally have found an AMAZING doctor who understands me and my needs. She rode my ass a bit about getting in to see a therapist she had been recommending, which made me feel awful because I tend to blame myself for everything. But she was right. I was SO LUCKY to have found a therapist who i immediately fell in love with. Even though I had seen ones before, we clicked and the mutual respect and understanding and just total comfort meant I was actually able to understand and receive her suggestions without totally hating myself. I sadly can’t see her often because of money problems (fuck the U.S.- a place where only wealthy people are truly deserving of great healthcare (and even then it sometimes still sucks)).

ANYWAY, back to the identity conversation: my relationship with her made me able to understand what she told me. She said “imagine yourself as a pie chart. Right now, you may want to only fill it in as a sick person, but imagine that there are other things in there that are also you.” She told me to come up with something I wanted to fill my pie chart with and if that thing was something I hadn’t done, do it. So I did!

Her advice was amazing. Am I healed or changed completely? No. Do I have a slightly more healthy view of who I am? Some days! Is this something that everyone at the stage they are in in life can do or wants to do? No. 

I truly think everyone is just doing the best they know how. Theoretically maybe people could do things differently and improve their lives in some ways, but we don’t live in a theoretical world where things are just that easy. Chronic illness is just plain hard. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Totally agree with you on this one! But the problem is that for every teenager being falsely diagnosed with depression and put on medication that may be unnecessary and told things about their future that may lead to fatalistic thinking, there are probably five other teenagers who ARE mentally ill, who DO need help, and who are NOT getting the help they need because they're not being taken seriously. Because even now there is a stigma surrounding mental illness in our society, and people are more concerned that some teenagers on tumblr think it's trendy to have anxiety than that there are actual teenagers with anxiety disorders who are not being helped. You know what prevented me from developing into my own person and learning for myself where my vulnerabilities lie and how to best work with or around them? Not being diagnosed and not being helped!

I wish I could upvote this a million times. Are there people who try to abuse the system to get medication? Absolutely. I won't deny that. But the fact of the matter is that a significant portion of people with mental health issues live without regular access to resources. The number of people being treated does not represent all people with mental health issues. The majority of people self-medicating aren't doing it with their dishonestly obtained Xanax prescriptions. That may work for the first bit, but most will go to a combination of alcohol, street drugs, and non-psych prescription drugs (pain pills) to cope with their mental health issues. The tumblr culture of having your diagnosis define you is I think part attention-seeking as well as young people simply trying to relate to other people who have similar struggles and unfortunately I don't think you can have one without the other at this point. 

I wish that I had listened to myself and been able to demand what I needed sooner in my life. It wasn't until I was half dead, realizing I was carrying a child, to get me to realize something wasn't right. I am grateful that I finally did receive the treatment and diagnoses I needed to begin taking the steps to reclaim my life. However, had I been properly diagnosed younger, I would have avoided many issues I currently face some of which are irreversible. Identifying and treating a mental health disorder as an adult is much harder than when you are younger. I have developed many negative coping mechanisms that I am still working to break. Until more people have access to proper mental health resources and are receiving the necessary treatment and the stigma around it is broken, there is a problem.

[feministxtian]

5 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

I was also going to say that comment was eyebrow-raise worthy.

Do you really think that those of us who would not survive without multiple doses of insulin a day have "no particular emotion" about it and don't see ourselves as diabetics? I mean this is an all-consuming effort to STAY ALIVE, it's not about don't eat a donut, it's literally about waking up every morning. I've accidentally overdosed on insulin, as many Type 1 diabetics will tell you happens. That's a life-and-death situation, so off you go to the ER and then you feel so awful for days after. Calculating every damn meal, making sure you exercise, etc. Yes, you live so it doesn't take over your life but it's there 24/7. Really a bizarre comment from you to make - maybe you're just not familiar with how diabetes works or you're thinking of people who have some slight insulin resistance and can control it with just lowering carbs?

Diabetes is some SCARY shit. When the meter reads 21 or just HI...as the "caregiver" (aka wife), I immediately run through a mental checklist including strange things like "is my tablet charged?", "where's my phone?" and the worst of all "can we handle this at home?" Fortunately, the answer usually is that we can handle this at home. But, to handle things at home, it involves an insulin pump, that due to hub's slenderness, has to have the cannula in his backside. It involves a continuous glucose monitoring setup, it involves more shit and brain power than most folks can imagine. For us, it's SSDD, but the reality is it's an all day, every day deal. It beats the shit out of what would have been the alternative for my husband...death...but it doesn't change that it SUCKS ASS. 

 

[SweetJuly]

I think the matter of mental health is just super complex, and there are no easy answers.

There's a few things I would like to add from my own experience:

Some brains do work by saying "enough is enough, I'm sick of this crap". This is what happened to me twice (with OCD in my early and anorexia in my late teens). Both times it was a decision that came from one day to the other, it just hit me that I didn't want to go on that way, and the next day my life had done a 180° turn. Do I think or expect that everyone else should be like this? Therapists wouldn't believe me, implying that I was "faking" my recovery and even insulting me for it as they seemed personally offended... so I am well aware that this is not a very common occurrence.  I just wish I could help others who struggle get there, and it makes me sad that I can't.

Could it be that nowadays "normal" emotions are often overdiagnosed and overmedicated? Yes, absolutely, but it's so difficult to define what is normal and what is not. Sometimes even the person suffering from something will have difficulties to determine whether it might be a "normal" phase or need more intervention, and then it is super-tricky to determine what can help (therapy, medication, a combination of both, maybe just a change in lifestyle, etc.) Looking back I am convinced that my difficulties in my teenage years had very little to do with actual brain chemistry problems and very much with me being a bit of a nerdy outsider in my school and feeling I would never be loved romantically by anyone. What helped me was neither therapy nor medication but to graduate from high school, spend a year travelling by myself, realising that I was a very loveable person and learning to embrace myself, quirks and all. Would I have known this at the time? No. Was I seeking help at the wrong places at the time? Maybe, maybe not. So difficult to say, and I am glad I wasn't in my parents shoes trying to decide how to best help their desperate daughter.

I did also have the impression that there are some people who very much seem to wallow in their mental illness/diagnosis. Of course I don't know what is going on in these people's heads, and I know that sometimes this kind of behaviour can actually be a symptom of the illness (hence complexity of the matter!!) but some fellow patients did seem to define themselves very much over their eating disorder and did not seem to want to get better. While I met many people who desperately wanted to move away from anorexia but couldn't, some were loving and glamourising the illness and openly enjoyed the attention they got from everyone for suffering from it. That is why I found group therapy sessions terribly damaging, I felt the attitude of some of these women was reinforcing the illness of my side.

So, long story short, I empathise with almost all sentiments expressed in this discussion. There is stigma on mental illness, mental illnesses are still not well understood and often used as an easy way out (oh, you're afraid it might be leukaemia? Nah, you're just stressed at work and a bit depressed! - happened to my sister!!), some people do use a diagnosis lightly (it's not anxiety to be a bit nervous before a job interview or exam, for example), many people who suffer from mental illnesses do not receive the treatment they need and are left alone - all valid points, and we have to avoid generalisations as every person and every case is different and needs to be looked at individually.

[FundieCentral]

@singsingsing: This is an online forum, the communication is not perfect, and I apologize for my part in that. I thought it would be an interesting topic of conversation to talk about different models of mental illness & recovery and our personal opinions about them, but I misjudged the situation I think. I just want to state explicitly that I take no personal issue with you, or your life situation, or the choices you've made, and nothing I said is a criticism of you. To make that even more explicit:#2 and #5 were attempts at self-deprecating humor, not making fun of you. Refer below for #3, #1 is inaccurate at least for the stream I am swimming in (may be different for surroundings), #4 that is not what I said or meant, #6 also isn't what I said or meant and #7 that's absolutely fair! #8: 

20 hours ago, singsingsing said:

If anyone else would like to attack the credibility of people with mental illness, or insinuate that psychology is bunk, sorry, my energy for this bullshit has officially been depleted. 

Of course people with mental illness are credible (except me ), and psychology isn't bunk, I'm still alive for heaven's sake. I'm sure you're still angry, but I really wasn't trying to hurt you and I apologize. 

@Jellybean, @AtlanticTug, @SamiKatz, @Carm_88, @feministxtian: 
Apologies incoming, I misformulated what I meant to say and didn't read any of your posts in time to change it, I apologize. I did not mean to say that people with chronic illness have no emotion about their illness, or that it isn't an incredible difficult and painful thing to struggle with. I feel for all of you & your loved ones. What I meant to draw was the contrast between thinking of yourself as a person with an illness vs. an illness (as happens sometimes in language for example with things like "having anorexia vs. being "the anorexic" or having autism/being autistic vs. being "the autist"). I drew the contrast with physical illness because in my experience with mental illness it can be more difficult to see it as "external". Anyway, apologies again. Haven't slept in two days so that's what I'll go do.

[Pecansforeveryone]

Hi lurker and 1st time poster here! I apologize for derailing the thread back to John Piper when it has moved on to such an important topic. John Piper's teachings can be toxic and misogynistic. He has made extreme complementarian gender roles a key part of his teachings. I know he is considered articulate and fairly mainstream. In my mind, that makes him all the more dangerous. So I do have to call out well intentioned individuals who post Piper including some of my own family members. I hope I have posted respectfully. Thank you. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

7 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

Of course I don't know what is going on in these people's heads, and I know that sometimes this kind of behaviour can actually be a symptom of the illness (hence complexity of the matter!!) but some fellow patients did seem to define themselves very much over their eating disorder and did not seem to want to get better. While I met many people who desperately wanted to move away from anorexia but couldn't, some were loving and glamourising the illness and openly enjoyed the attention they got from everyone for suffering from it. That is why I found group therapy sessions terribly damaging, I felt the attitude of some of these women was reinforcing the illness of my side.

I am sorry that you didn't have a positive experience with group therapy! From my own eating disorder struggles I can definitely relate to this. I was inpatient for several months and I encountered both ends of the spectrum as far as those who wanted to get better and those whose whole identity was wrapped up in their diagnosis. Group sessions inpatient were more helpful for me than outpatient ones were. It felt like nobody wanted to recover in outpatient. I can only speak from personal experience, but because I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult, I unknowingly developed so many food rituals, habits, and thoughts that were normal for me because that's all I had known for half of my life. My goal in life was to be skinny; that's who I thought I was.  When I was confronted with the fact that these behaviors were abnormal and unhealthy, I had a very hard time drawing the line between where my disorder ended and my true self began which sounds so silly to me. Some girls wore their diagnosis as a badge of honor it seemed and I felt there was a hierarchy of "ideal" diagnoses (anorexia, orthorexia, bulimia, etc with BED at the bottom).  That behavior was very bizarre and thankfully limited to only a few people. Eating disorders in themselves are so difficult because they require certain mental criteria as well as physical criteria for diagnosis which I think lends itself to the disordered identity problem. 

I appreciate everyone for being respectful and sharing their mental health experiences here! 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 9:54 AM, Ali said:

I would like to add to this. I also think it is dangerous for parents to self diagnose their children.

One of my in laws SOTDRT homeschools her children. She has diagnosed both her kids with dyslexia and takes them to a dyslexia tutor who Mr. A and I suspect is a self educated homeschooling mom who also self diagnosed her kids.

She constantly talks about how her kids struggle because of dyslexia. She has determined one of her children will never be able to understand math because of the diagnosis she made and she constantly talks about it in front of her kids. I am student teaching for secondary mathematics and have offered to try to help her daughter multiple times for free.  She had never taken me up on it. She told me that her daughter is worried about math in college. I told her that most have free tutoring services, but those are not necessarily because the dyslexia tutor will still be willing to tutor her. 

It is entirely possible that her daughters have dyslexia and her daughter could have a learning disability that makes it extremely difficult for her to learn mathematics. What frustrates me is she is not actually getting a diagnosis to see if her kids have actually have dyslexia, checking if there are other learning disabilities, talking about their inability to learn constantly in front of them, and not doing everything she can to help them.

This kind of talk is very troubling, in front of the child. With my son DH & I have known since elementary school that he wasn't going to go to college, it isn't because he is dumb, it is because he HATES school, we've never once said to him that we knew he wasn't going, we always talked when he was younger "you need to know this for college..." always talked to him the same way we talked to DD whom we've known since elementary school WAS going to go. It wasn't until DS's senior year when he was having to really apply for schools and such that he told us he didn't want to go and he had to listen. We did get him to sign up for 2 classes at the local community college in what ever he wanted to take in hopes it would entice him to go at least for a 2 year degree. Nope, it was a nightmare and he didn't go back, he's working full time and still hem hawing about this and that.  DD on the other hand we have her all ready for Uni in the fall and she's beyond excited.  KNOWING your kid can't/won't do something isn't an excuse to give them a free pass, I think you should encourage them to do as much as they can, as well as they can, for as long as they can, because you really DON'T know what they are capable of, until they do it, or not.  I hoped we were wrong about DS not going to college, but at this time he's not interested he's 20 and paying his own way, it's up to him now, all I can do is offer advice.

[FundieCentral]

2 hours ago, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

 Some girls wore their diagnosis as a badge of honor it seemed and I felt there was a hierarchy of "ideal" diagnoses (anorexia, orthorexia, bulimia, etc with BED at the bottom).  That behavior was very bizarre and thankfully limited to only a few people. Eating disorders in themselves are so difficult because they require certain mental criteria as well as physical criteria for diagnosis which I think lends itself to the disordered identity problem. 

& @SweetJuly: 100% my experience. In one hospital I spent some time on multiple units, and the eating disorder unit was probably what made me such a strong anti-institutionalist because it was significantly less focused on recovery than all the others in terms of general spirit. Eating disorders already come with such a sense of perfectionism, it develops its own set of dynamics in a closed-off space, and it's very easy to get sucked in. I later read Erving Goffman's Asylums and it absolutely transformed me and gave me a lot of the (admittedly highly contested) opinions I shared above. 

The "virtuosity scale" is its own funny thing. It definitely seems like there is a category of mental illness which we as a society almost admire, maybe because they are extreme versions of qualities we profess to cherish in our culture. Among these seem to be anorexia, bigorexia and orthorexia and on occasion OCD (maybe for their association with discipline/productivity/industriousness? ), and bipolar I (for its supposed "artistic value"?). However, certain illnesses are considered much more deplorable, especially BED, Cluster A personality disorders, and schizophrenia, maybe because they reference things that we as a culture are afraid of (high body weights, being outside the social convention, or losing track of one's sense of self). 

I think that's part of the reason why the blasé attitude with some mental illnesses prevails, because to some people saying that you have OCD for example makes them think you're just a super neat person. And the media feed into this. I don't know if any of you guys ever watched the show obsessive-compulsive cleaners on Youtube, but it's a perfect example. They send a person  with or without diagnosed OCD that is supposedly "super cleanly" into a really messy house and have them clean it. The takeaway of the show is essentially - oh, it's good to have OCD because it means you have the nicest house in town. Yeah no, that's not quite how it works. 

[RubyRei]

There is DEFINITELY a perceived “hierarchy” of mental illness (and physical but I know personally about mental).

This hierarchy exists both in the mental illness community and outside of it. I know personally I felt “just like everyone else with a garden variety mental illness” when I just had a depression and anxiety diagnosis. I think it was partly because I knew there was “more” and that I was often more intense in my reactions than others so it didn’t feel right. But still, a hierarchy, and  judgemental one at that. Then my bipolar diagnosis came and I was filled with so much pride that I could finally say “IM BIPOLAR!!!!!” I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. It made me feel more ~valid~. 

Sorry because I’m not saying it’s true or right and it was actually really shitty of me.  I’m also not really sure what my point is other than there’s lots of stigma and it’s very complicated 

[treehugger]

Re self-diagnosing: when my second daughter was born, I answered the PPD questionnaire at every check-up, but aside from the generic "always tired" answer (which raised no red flags as I had a 2 year-old and a newborn), I didn't check off any of the other red flags. I was not suffering from PPD. And I have never been diagnosed with a mental illness in my life.

But, after my daughter was born, I started experiencing debilitating anxiety, only I didn't realize what it was until someone shared an article about Post-partum Anxiety on Facebook two years of later. And I read it and thought "oh my God, that's what was wrong with me"! Because it is stupid to pack along a hard drive with a copy of all your family pictures on it, and to take your marriage license with you to the park with your kids, because you are convinced the house is going to burn down while you are gone for an hour. And it is absurd to wake up every half hour at night for months on end to make sure both children are breathing, because obviously your life is going too well, and something horrible could happen any minute. 

Now, like PPD, PPA tends to get better over time, and I was never diagnosed, because by the time I realized that PPA was an actual thing, I had slowly gotten to a better place with the passing of time. But yeah, all that to say that mental health screening is really lacking in the public health sector, and I wish I had known about PPA sooner. I don't have very many wonderful memories of my youngest daughter first year of life. I was so anxious and fearful, I missed out on a lot.  

[Ivycoveredtower]

 

Jessa shared this picture which seems like a throw back picture. her insta story also shows that her Henry and Jana were at Magnolia