Seewalds 32: The Big If

[Calypso]

Adding to the discussion of mental illness becoming part of your identity. Sorry if this is jumbled or inappropriate. I wanted to add to the discussion but i have trouble sometimes discerning what is or isnt ok to say.

I really cant blame anyone for identifying strongly with a mental illness or other disease. Im not sure who id be without my mental issues. Whether i like it or not its always been a part of who i am. It manifests in different ways over time depending on whats going on in my life but its always there. Its manifested as anorexia, major depression, self harm, substance abuse, anxiety or whatever else. But its the same underlying neurological pattern manifesting in different ways over time.

I didnt even realize i had anxiety until a couple of years ago. Looking back it was always there and my complete inability to do certain types of tasks isnt normal. Like for example i cant order food at a restaurant by myself. Just cant. Ive skipped so many meals even though i was starving because i walked into a restaurant, got overwhelmed and had to leave. I feel dumb now for not realizing that was anxiety but its not like i can go back. I didnt have a word for it and it was just part of who i was. 

I also didnt realize it wasnt normal to think about shooting yourself every day. Not in a suicidal way necessarily in that i would never act on it. But thinking hey i would be totally alright with getting shot in the head right now. And running through those kinds of scenarios many times every day.

Depression is kind of my baseline. Of course i can be happy and can function as a normal person. But in the absence of other stimulus my default is depression. I honestly dont know who id be without it. Our thoughts are the thing that makes us who we are and for better or worse thats just how my brain works 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

On 5/4/2018 at 4:54 PM, Ali said:

I would like to add to this. I also think it is dangerous for parents to self diagnose their children.

One of my in laws SOTDRT homeschools her children. She has diagnosed both her kids with dyslexia and takes them to a dyslexia tutor who Mr. A and I suspect is a self educated homeschooling mom who also self diagnosed her kids.

She constantly talks about how her kids struggle because of dyslexia. She has determined one of her children will never be able to understand math because of the diagnosis she made and she constantly talks about it in front of her kids. I am student teaching for secondary mathematics and have offered to try to help her daughter multiple times for free.  She had never taken me up on it. She told me that her daughter is worried about math in college. I told her that most have free tutoring services, but those are not necessarily because the dyslexia tutor will still be willing to tutor her. 

It is entirely possible that her daughters have dyslexia and her daughter could have a learning disability that makes it extremely difficult for her to learn mathematics. What frustrates me is she is not actually getting a diagnosis to see if her kids have actually have dyslexia, checking if there are other learning disabilities, talking about their inability to learn constantly in front of them, and not doing everything she can to help them.

It would be a step forward if your in law mustered at least the difference between different specific learning disorders. Dyslexia and dyscalculia aren't the same thing and most kids don't have both. But having both and on top of them a wilfully ignorant parent SOTDRTing you, must feel like winning the misfortune lottery 

Moreover because there's actually a lot that can be done to help kids with specific learning disorders. Helping them can actually allow them to perform on par with their peers.

This is the website of an Italian math professor who, suffering himself of dyscalculia, has developed a teaching methods that works also for kids with dyscalculia. Unfortunately it's in Italian, but you can try to see if Google manages to translate it decently. Otherwise if you are interested I can help with translation.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

On 4/4/2018 at 8:11 AM, FundieCentral said:

Depression, anxiety, anger etc. are all normal aspects of the human emotional spectrum.

This is technically incorrect. Depression isn't a "normal aspect of the human emotional spectrum" as much as flu isn't a normal state of our physical health. Sadness is a normal emotion, depression is not normal. And while it is such a common ailment that the majority of people will live through it at least once and heal with a bit of time and self care, it doesn't mean that it's a normal state. If you have the flu you are ill, if you have depression you are ill. It doesn't matter that both may pass quickly and without special treatment beyond rest and increased self care.

It's worth to note that major depression is in an entirely different ballpark. As you can't compare a flu that knocks you out for a few days with ie a meningitis or diabetes, you can't compare sadness with mild depressive episodes, nor mild depressive episodes with major depression. 

A similar reasoning can be done for anxiety and rage. Emotions can be compared to our immunitary system, they get us through life keeping us healthy, fighting off illnesses and allowing us to have the appropriate responses to life events. But sometimes they get off. The immunitary system's response isn't adequate anymore either too low or too aggressive. Depending on your luck you can simply gey rhinitis more often than normal or be in serious risk to catch any and every bug that would quickly kill you. Or your immunitary system is too aggressive and causes you allergies or even starts to attack your own organs. Same for your emotions, they can go a bit out of control and cause you mild problems or they can be completely out of control and cause you some disabling mental illness, panic attacks, major depression etc. It's all a matter of how intense the problem is and to which degree it affects your every day life.

Since things are so complicated and nuanced, sweeping statements like yours about all those people that should suck it up because emotions are a normal part of life, nothing to fuss about, are really unhelpful. You don't tell a person with flu to suck it up, go around in the cold naked and ignore their symptoms. Heck you don't do it to someone with a runny nose! 

I agree that you can't take anti retrovirals for a runny nose as you don't need antidepressants for sadness. But if I am your doctor and I know that you are immunodeficient I'll keep a close eye on your runny nose, same if you have a history of depression I'll check your sadness closely and I may decide that you need some form of help beyond what a non immunodeficient, non with a history of mental illnesses person would need.

This said, we need to recognise that many adult people while knowing what to do to cure a papercut, have no clue about how to take care of a bout of sadness. We as a society should work better teaching kids how to care for our mental health, because if a papercut can get infected, higher anxiety related to a life event can be the first step towards developing a state of generalised anxiety.

When you say that everybody seems to have a mental illness lately, you aren't far from truth. As everyone can get a physical illness, everyone can get a mental illness. So as everyone should know about and respect hygienic rules, we all should know the basics of mental health and practice them. Still knowing full well that it doesn't matter if you follow all the rules plus eat healthy and organic it's no guarantee that you won't fell ill.

Just because we are convinced of knowing and being able to control our brain better than we do with our body, it doesn't mean it's true. You can't command to your body not to catch the flu, you can only fight it of as best as you can. You can't command your brain not to get depression, you can only fight it as best as you can.

Sorry for the wall o text.

[Nargus]

I know this is kind of extra off topic, but I’m looking for some help. It’s incredibly difficult for someone who has no experiences with depression to understand what someone with depression is going through.

My brother in law has been struggling recently and my husband said offhand to me ‘I know I can’t say this to him, but he really has nothing to be depressed about’. My response was ‘that’s not how depression works’. I’ve tried explaining my personal experiences with depression to him, but he still struggles with understanding. 

Does anyone know of any resources that could help me help my husband understand and better support his brother? Some things my brother in law has already said help him a lot, like them joining the gym together.  

[FundieCentral]

9 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

you can't compare sadness with mild depressive episodes, nor mild depressive episodes with major depression. 

You said better what I was trying to say than I did, thank you! 

My implied critique was about the notion that the only acceptable state to be is #blessed and #amazing all the time essentially. If you lose someone you love, it is normal to have symptoms of depression in the form of grief, and there’s nothing wrong with grieving. Or another example, if you are in a completely new environment, and you are anxious about whether you will succeed  in your new partnership/at a different college or job/in a different country, that anxiety is there for a reason - there’s a lot that could go wrong, and it’s normal to feel some fear. I think it would be harmful to beat ourselves up over that and pathologize these emotions because “you’re supposed to handle it better” or something of that sort, or as I heard a lot in my first semester in college when people said that they were struggling: “what’s wrong with you?” Or telling people to “just go get counseling/prozac” (and then dismiss the conversation). Sometimes the best you can do for someone is to be their friend and listen, in my experience, because while love doesn’t fix anything, it sometimes helps. Of course mental illness is a different beast and requires other kinds of strategies than tlc (although love and support are super important, I think). 

Anyway. Thanks for taking the time to write such an insightful response/post! 

[Kittikatz]

@Nargus I don't know if these links might help your husband understand a little better? It seems like there isn't a whole lot that tries to explain depression from the perspective of a depressed person. Which is kind of weird. 

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/inside-head-depressed-person-0110134

http://www.depressiontoolkit.org/family-friends-caregivers/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/19/depression-awareness-mental-illness-feel-like

 

[Carm_88]

Spoiler

Pictures from Magnolia. Henry is too cute!

[seraaa]

On 4/4/2018 at 12:58 AM, neurogirl said:

its related to smart phones solely, but more that in the US "the American Dream" is harder to obtain, young people have more debt, feel like they have to be constantly competitive to go to college/get a job/reach a comfortable existence, they believe America is in trouble (both political sides) and people are on their own...and then the news/friends and family issues/work or school is constantly at the fingertips.

I absolutely believe that the structural conditions of our lives can influence our mental health. Like, somebody may have a tendency to anxiety, for example, but there are circumstances which can help or hinder the management of such conditions, and modern life is not conducive to good mental health in many ways. #Millenialproblems 

(That's not to say that I believe that mental illness is solely externally determined - not at all! - but that external and structural factors, the habits and everyday patterns of our lives, can have an influence on some forms of it. The other reason it seems more prevalent, as others have said, is that it is not so taboo to talk about as it may have been in the past)

[seraaa]

On 4/4/2018 at 5:32 AM, just_ordinary said:

He said it happens a lot with young people when they are in front of big life decisions like finishing school or university. Those cases just need some help/coaching to get well again.

This is me, except my phase lasted for about 5 years. I put off going back to the doctor because "it's not a real problem" and "other people have actual, serious conditions" and "I'll probably get over it soon".

With hindsight - bad decision. Go to the doctor, take any help that is offered (which in my case was/is talking therapy, which I wish more people had access to).

I want to give this thread a hug (Crazy ex-girlfriend, one of the best shows about mental illness on TV, gets it)

 

[RubyRei]

@Nargus Explaining depression to someone who doesn’t understand is really hard, but if your husband is more of a science/fact guy, showing why people who “have nothing to be depressed about” can still have depression can at least help with the “why” even if not the “what” (feelings of depression). 

This is really comprehensive about brain chemistry, brain development, genetics, and social/environmental factors relating to the causes of depression. Hope it can help you/your husband! Best wishes to your brother in law <3

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression

[Daisy0322]

Is it just me or have they been pushing the Jessa/Jana sisterly bond thing on us recently?

[patsymae]

I've had all of that--what do you have to be depressed about? So take a pill to make you happy if you're sad or sad if you're happy, blah blah..."

I believe antidepressants saved my life and that I could have had an entirely different, much better life had they been available when I was in my 20s and 30s.

I get so sick of people who lecture about sadness is a part of life and they've been sad so you are just imagining depression, or being self-indulgent, or lazy...to me they're like the people who think they've overcome poverty--and know how everybody else should--because they lived on ramen noodles in college.

My family history is filled with all sorts of dysfunction because of mental illness that was not treated or even recognized--nobody knew anything about it. So if more people are being (caveat, properly) diagnosed now, that's more than fine with me.

[Ivycoveredtower]

8 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

Is it just me or have they been pushing the Jessa/Jana sisterly bond thing on us recently?

I hadn't noticed but if they are spending more time together I think that makes the most sense. Jinger in Texas and traveling with Jeremy. Jill is following Derick around like a puppy dog. Joy is helping Austin run fort rock and has a new born.  

Jessa well having two kids is home by herself all day or over at the TTH so I could see her and Jana growing closer. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Jana and Laura have matching berks.

[Ivycoveredtower]

7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Jana and Laura have matching berks.

I hate Anna's shoes. 

[mango_fandango]

I don’t like that top either, it makes her look super pregnant. I know it’s hanging straight down as opposed to being stretched over a rounded bump but it’s not a flattering cut/shape.

I struggle with anxiety (never been formally diagnosed by a doctor but I’m pretty sure I have it in some form). I don’t have a job or much structure in my life right now, so I guess a few of my problems could be solved by having more of a routine in my life. However, most of my anxiety is social, and I don’t think having a job would make much of a difference. Sure, I’d be seeing people every day etc, but merely being plonked into that situation wouldn’t help much (I struggle most in a group of people who I don’t know). I honestly think some form of CBT could really help, I’ve contacted somewhere about it, just not heard anything yet. 

Mental illness affects everyone differently. Some may find CBT great, some may find it shit. Some may find one type of medication great, others may find that type of medication to be useless. 

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I hate Anna's shoes. 

those shoes DO NOT work with a skirt. Pants or skinny jeans, yes. Skirt, no. 

[JillRodsEyeliner]

1 hour ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I hate Anna's shoes. 

She looks like an extra from Annie...it's a hard knock life.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm just happy to see Anna getting to get out and have some fun.  That seems very rare these days. 

[Chewing Gum]

I have to say from the third pic on Anna’s instagram Jessa looks amazing and appears to be in a good shape. 

 

 

[just_ordinary]

41 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

I have to say from the third pic on Anna’s instagram Jessa looks amazing and appears to be in a good shape. 

 

 

I agree. I wouldn’t expect an announcement soon. Schrödinger‘s uterus and everything but she looks slim enough to not be far along if even pregnant. 

[Ais]

I bet Jessa is holding her dress tight like that to stop pregnancy speculation 

[SapphireSlytherin]

41 minutes ago, Ais said:

I bet Jessa is holding her dress tight like that to stop pregnancy speculation 

 

Yep. She knew this pic would be all over the inter webs and she didn't want anyone saying she was pregnant because she was wearing a swing dress.

Which, by the way, is an extremely comfortable way to dress. I have two and LOVE them (LulaRoe's Carly). I would live in them, actually, if I could get away with it.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

So the trip was a family affair, minus the Dillard's Forsythe's & Voluo's.

[Four is Enough]

This is the first time in a while I've seen Anna look so frumpy. Those shoes!

And SO clever of Jessa to hold her dress over her flattish stomach.. dispel the rumors? Or tease us with a very early pregnancy? Schroedinger's Uterus!!