Seewalds 32: The Big If

[snickerz]

Piper? I'm picking that for her future daughter's name.

[Ivycoveredtower]

7 minutes ago, snickerz said:

Piper? I'm picking that for her future daughter's name.

I'll go one more Piper Lauren  it's actually a nice name if they use it. 

[JordynDarby5]

That was my pick too. Ever since Ben was mention John Piper, I thought they'd use that for a girl name. 

[feministxtian]

Piper? OH gawd...George Lopez uses that name when he's talking about the gringos and their kids...SO funny!

 

[VelociRapture]

On 3/28/2018 at 5:33 PM, singsingsing said:

Meh. Looks like standard Christian advice. Some people do find the Bible/religion helpful in dealing with their anxiety, which is great. Especially if you've just got garden variety anxiety like everyone else on earth, or if you're using the Bible to supplement therapy and/or medication. What's not great is telling people that anxiety disorders aren't real, or they're your fault for not trusting God enough, or whatever. Frankly I don't have the patience to read/watch whatever she linked to, so I have no idea if that's what she's peddling today. 

Also, I just remembered that I had a dream last night that Jessa told me she was pregnant. But she wasn't very far along and it was a secret, so... shhhh. 

I’m really just done cutting them slack on this. It’s insulting and disgusting that they belittle the struggle that many people, myself included, go through every day. I honestly don’t care how she meant it - the impact on others matters more than what her intentions were. 

(And I don’t mean to sound pissed at you because I promise I’m not. I’m just so fucking tired of them making stupid judgements about mental health in general. Although, I am glad Jessa put her foot in her mouth this time. She’s been pretty good at remaining uncontroversial in recent years and this just serves as a good reminder that she has the same crap beliefs as the others.)

[Jenn The Heathen]

Yeah, Jessa, if you could go ahead and pray next time my sister’s obsessive anxiety disorder takes over her life and she stops showering, eating, and her kids are wearing dirty clothes, that would be great....

Oh, what I really meant was, shut up and leave the treatments for mental health to the professionals.

[Glasgowghirl]

I suffer depression and anxiety and I'm not offended by her post as religion may be a comfort to people, not for me. I do though feel some concern that the Duggar's only seem to advocate Christian based therapy but Jessa posting the quote itself doesn't bother me.

[singsingsing]

37 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I’m really just done cutting them slack on this. It’s insulting and disgusting that they belittle the struggle that many people, myself included, go through every day. I honestly don’t care how she meant it - the impact on others matters more than what her intentions were. 

(And I don’t mean to sound pissed at you because I promise I’m not. I’m just so fucking tired of them making stupid judgements about mental health in general. Although, I am glad Jessa put her foot in her mouth this time. She’s been pretty good at remaining uncontroversial in recent years and this just serves as a good reminder that she has the same crap beliefs as the others.)

I didn't see anything offensive in Jessa's post, and I had no interest whatsoever in following her link, but I wouldn't be surprised if whatever she linked to was wildly ignorant and offensive. If it was, yes, shame on her. The Duggars of course have a piss poor track record when it comes to discussing mental health. That sucks. I've just been subjected to the onslaught of ignorance and prejudice for so long that I'm tired of it and my energy for dealing with this b.s. is depleted, so I'm sorry if my replies sounded blase. 

[Daisy0322]

6 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I didn't see anything offensive in Jessa's post, and I had no interest whatsoever in following her link, but I wouldn't be surprised if whatever she linked to was wildly ignorant and offensive. If it was, yes, shame on her. The Duggars of course have a piss poor track record when it comes to discussing mental health. 

I agree, I mean yes many, many people need more than prayer but If your religious using prayer as a part of your mental health regiment can be good. I didn't see any where she was saying "y'all throw out your lexapro pro and trust the lord ya dirty hethens". I think the reaction is so strong because of Derek's tweet about mental health not too long ago.

[Rachel333]

Everyone gets anxiety*, so sharing management strategies like that doesn't bother me unless she's saying that it cures anxiety disorders.*

*This is not, however, a helpful thing to say to someone with an anxiety disorder! Just because you, like virtually everyone, experience anxiety at times doesn't mean you know what it's like to have an anxiety disorder. It's like the difference between a cold and pneumonia.

*Many people absolutely do say this, which is incredibly frustrating. I grew up hearing that prayer is the only way to heal mental illness, which was seen as solely a spiritual matter. I even knew someone who insisted that mental illnesses are a manifestation of the sin in someone's heart.

[SapphireSlytherin]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

She’s been pretty good at remaining uncontroversial in recent years and this just serves as a good reminder that she has the same crap beliefs as the others.

If only it would remind teach JESSA that she has crap beliefs, too.

[HarleyQuinn]

I saw a remark on reddit where the commenter was surprised that Jill came out with a revamped website before Jessa did. She thought Jessa would try to make a blog sharing recipes, life, etc. And now that I think about it, that kind of makes sense. Jessa seems to care so much about building her brand. Why not expand the scope of her website?

[SweetJuly]

7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I saw a remark on reddit where the commenter was surprised that Jill came out with a revamped website before Jessa did. She thought Jessa would try to make a blog sharing recipes, life, etc. And now that I think about it, that kind of makes sense. Jessa seems to care so much about building her brand. Why not expand the scope of her website?

Having a website sharing recipes, etc., does not sound like Jessa, tbh. I believe she just really enjoys fashion, decorating, and her two boys, and her social media posts reflect this. She never struck me as someone who would necessarily have the interest or even strive to present herself as the perfect fundie wifey.

That's Jill's domain. Jill has, from day one of her courtship, tried to continue being Jilly Muffin, the good fundie-daughter turned wholesome fundie-wife who is a mother, midwife, homemaker and all other things godly. Sadly for her, all attempts have somehow backfired and made her and Derick's life look even more pathetic. Example: The canned chicken dumpling soup disaster she posted as one of her "recipes.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I know it's a fraught topic especially considering the way a lot of fundies elevate prayer over concrete action or medication, but I highly doubt Jessa was trying to go as far as addressing actual anxiety disorders (or if she even realizes that's a thing) and/or depression co-morbidity.  Seems more likely she was probably just lying awake in bed overthinking how to juggle finances for an unexpected expense and decided to throw a Bible quote in there.  I'm sure they have plenty of TLC/Daddy money, but that doesn't means she's immune from worrying about finances.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I suffer depression and anxiety and I'm not offended by her post as religion may be a comfort to people, not for me. I do though feel some concern that the Duggar's only seem to advocate Christian based therapy but Jessa posting the quote itself doesn't bother me.

I think so as well, she did comment about this isn't "across the board anxiety" I took it as don't fret the small stuff kind of anxiety. I use this mantra frequently. I suffer from anxiety & depression as well, but I've used prayer and bible passages to help through small things. Not everyone has debilitating anxiety, if she had posted about you need the bible not pills to deal with your anxiety then yeah, jump her ass, but I do think this was a jus don't sweat the small stuff folks. kind of thing.

[VelociRapture]

13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I didn't see anything offensive in Jessa's post, and I had no interest whatsoever in following her link, but I wouldn't be surprised if whatever she linked to was wildly ignorant and offensive. If it was, yes, shame on her. The Duggars of course have a piss poor track record when it comes to discussing mental health. That sucks. I've just been subjected to the onslaught of ignorance and prejudice for so long that I'm tired of it and my energy for dealing with this b.s. is depleted, so I'm sorry if my replies sounded blase. 

I don’t want you to think I’m ignoring you. I’ve been trying to watch the videos and have had other things on my plate. I’m sorry if this doesn’t make much sense, but I was trying to make notes and remember what was being said as I was going. You’ll have to actually watch them yourself if you want to get a real bear of what Piper was saying, but I tried.

The main point he says the passage he based this talk off of makes is “do not be anxious.” It isn’t until later that he draws a connection to not being anxious about money specifically - but even then, he claims you shouldn’t be anxious about even stuff like what you’ll eat because God. He also doesn’t distinguish at all between everyday anxiety (or worries) and full blown anxiety disorders in this talk.

In this interview, which is listed as a resource for the videos Jessa linked, Piper claims that anxiety is a sin because the Bible teaches in multiple places that God does not want people to worry or be anxious:

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/anxiety-sin-disorder-or-both

Basically, feeling anxious indicates you have a trust issue with God.  Now, he does say everyone feels anxious at times and he does too because no one has perfect faith and that’s good, but I do take issue with stating that anxiety in general is a sin. 

He does talk in that interview about how some people do struggle with extreme anxiety. He states people dealing with that need help from those who know Him (God) best and those who understand the physical effects best (I’m guessing Doctors?) He does state some of the most extreme cases need medication so they can better avail themselves of the “natural” strategy of turning to God. Supporting the use of medication is a good thing, but I don’t think he says anything about anxiety disorders not being sinful - which I think is bullshit personally because you’re kind of casting blame onto someone for something that isn’t their fault.

Basically, I don’t think it’s as bad as people originally thought. That said, I don’t think Piper did that good a job of distinguishing between normal anxiety and full blown anxiety disorders in the lab videos that Jessa tweeted about. You have to look at the resources listed to see he does know there’s a difference. I think it’s important to make that distinction extremely clear in the actual labs though because full blown anxiety disorders are very different from more everyday type of anxiety and how they should be handled is different.

(I have no issue with people of faith turning to their religion or books of worship for help or comfort. I do have an issue with people claiming those books of worship or their religion is all anyone needs though and I do get a slight sense that’s what he was alluding to.)

As for Jessa specifically posting this - in the future she should clearly explain if the link has nothing at all to do with mental illness. The Duggars have such a piss poor record on understanding mental illness that I don’t think people can be blamed for immediately assuming this was more of the same. 

I hope this made some sort of sense. Apologies if it didn’t. I promise I tried. Lol!

ETA: I should point out that I’m not really convinced that Jessa, or any Duggar, understands that mental illness is a legitimate thing. 

[nst]

On 3/28/2018 at 2:24 PM, VelociRapture said:

Dear Jessa: 

 

But seriously. Come talk to me when you actually struggle with anxiety and panic attacks the way I do. Until then, take your prayers and fuck right off Jessa Blessa.

she needs to be quiet about stuff she has no clue about....her and derick 

[Jellybean]

This is so common in my experience of Christianity, that there is that sense of being judged for having a medical condition and/or disability. I can’t tell you the number of times people quoted scripture at me and then either implied, or said outright, that I must not have enough faith (or have unconfessed sin, or both) because I still find wheelchair works much better than my legs. 

Because the bible directly mentions anxiety/fear/unhappiness and other specific situations, it always felt that I needed a special exemption for being me, and I could see that being extended to pretty much all mental and physical illnesses. 

Another common one is that we and/or those around us (eg parents of children with disabilities) are being tested, which I find similarly distasteful. 

Life is hard and everyone has things that trouble them. It seems desperately unfair to pile further pressure onto people who are already struggling. People are remarkable, and a little kindness and acceptance can go a long way, as I see all the time here on FJ.

Thanks @VelociRapture for watching that John Piper video. He may not have said it explicitly, but it’s natural for our bodies and minds to malfunction - it’s almost inherent in the make-up of humans. It takes great resilience to continue when life is accompanied by an inner soundtrack of fear or hopelessness or whatever. You contribute a huge amount to this community and I have enormous admiration for your strength and openness. Sending hugs across the ocean (and the various puddles along the way) to you!

[singsingsing]

@VelociRapture thank you for taking one for the team. As always, you are a true FJ MVP! May the favour of Rufus shine upon you always.

[VelociRapture]

32 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

@VelociRapture thank you for taking one for the team. As always, you are a true FJ MVP! May the favour of Rufus shine upon you always.

Lol! You’re welcome. I feel like the labs aren’t exactly bad advice for Christians who are dealing with everyday type worries. Looking to their faith could help ease some of those pretty typical worries most people experience. It’s not so helpful for anyone with an actual anxiety disorder though - it does come across as a bit dismissive in that sense, at least in my opinion. So yeah, I think Piper really needs to clarify who he’s actually addressing, but it’s not quite as bad as I had anticipated.

[singsingsing]

13 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Lol! You’re welcome. I feel like the labs aren’t exactly bad advice for Christians who are dealing with everyday type worries. Looking to their faith could help ease some of those pretty typical worries most people experience. It’s not so helpful for anyone with an actual anxiety disorder though - it does come across as a bit dismissive in that sense, at least in my opinion. So yeah, I think Piper really needs to clarify who he’s actually addressing, but it’s not quite as bad as I had anticipated.

From a completely anecdotal perspective, I personally found trying to use religion to alleviate my anxiety to be more anxiety provoking than anything. But that may have had something to do with the fact that I could never quite get myself to believe in what I was 'supposed to'. Christianity, even liberal Christianity, can often consist of a lot of, 'Be better. You need to do better. You're not doing enough. Try harder. Pray harder. Have more faith. Surrender yourself more completely! Wait, stop trying SO HARD, grace is a FREE GIFT, you need to accept that BETTER!'  Again, this is 100% just my personal experience, and I know that religion can and does help a lot of people and I'm in no way trying to diminish that!

[Sky with diamonds]

Ugh. I'm so annoyed by what she posted. Glad I missed it as it was happening. Note to Jessa, don't do this sort of thing Jessa, especially as I doubt you know much about mental health.

[Toothfairy]

@PumaLover I adopted older kids and foster older kids. My daughter adopted as a teen wish she came into foster care as a baby. She said everyone wants babies and not teens. At least someone would want her as a baby. Her baby and toddler siblings were adopted and not her. She was separated from them because the adoptive parents of her younger siblings only wanted young kids and not older kids. She still doesn't believe we want her because she's too old. My adopted son does not understand why his mom didn't fight for him or loves him. She just left the stay and signed him away. 

 

 

Therapy helps but there's still pain. Adoption doesn't erase that pain. Some of my kids feel abandon and unwanted. Some wish they were never born. It's hard to hear this and breaks my heart but I allow them to grieve and support their feelings 

[2manyKidzzz]

@Toothfairy  you are quite wonderful. 

[Mama Mia]

I Just skimmed the the breakdown, and the videos,but really - an emphasis on not stressing about not having the latest gadget or nicest shoes or skinniest arms seems like a GOOD thing. I see secular and religious anti-anxiety tips posted ALL the time. Some people find them helpful. Some don’t.