Josiah Duggar Part 6: Now Officially Engaged!

[snickerz]

Yes, some of the events in the books were out of order. The one that bothered me even as a child was when they were all deathly ill with malaria. They could barely rouse themselves from bed long enough to take a sip of water, and then collapse again, and I kept wondering WHAT ABOUT BABY CARRIE?!? She was magically never mentioned in the malaria story, even though she existed in the rest of the book. Only when I reread the book as an adult and googled, did I find out that Carrie hadn't been born yet when they had malaria, but for whatever reason Laura chose to put the malaria story later, after Carrie was born.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Don't forget the episode of Albert's addiction. And of course there was no actual Albert in real life.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

There’s been a lot of discussion about how much of the books Rose wrote or edited. Ghost in the Little House is the main pro-Rose one; Laura Ingalls Wilder: A Writer’s Life by Pamela Smith Hill is Team Laura. Pamela Smith Hill also edited the recent edition of Pioneer Girl, the autobiography that Laura wrote before she turned to juvenile fiction. I recently read Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder, the first serious biography of her. It’s very good, though the historical background at the beginning of the book is so extensive that you’ve forgotten it’s a biography by the time Laura shows up. The main thing I took away from it was that Rose was seriously mentally ill, most likely bipolar.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm wondering if there, also, was some sort of issue with fertility among the Ingalls girls. Laura is the only one who had biological children, and only Rose lived to adulthood; she had no children. Neither Laura's son nor Caroline's son survived infancy - a genetic thing, maybe?

It's always puzzled me, especially in their era - when "lots of children" were the norm, rather than the exception.

Just thinking out loud... er... thinking on forum...

[kachuu]

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm wondering if there, also, was some sort of issue with fertility among the Ingalls girls. Laura is the only one who had biological children, and only Rose lived to adulthood; she had no children. Neither Laura's son nor Caroline's son survived infancy - a genetic thing, maybe?

It's always puzzled me, especially in their era - when "lots of children" were the norm, rather than the exception.

Just thinking out loud... er... thinking on forum...

We know at least Laura & Almanzo slept in separate beds so that couldn't have helped...

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, kachuu said:

We know at least Laura & Almanzo slept in separate beds so that couldn't have helped...

Why? Sleeping in separate beds says nothing about your sex life. Some people have more sex when they sleep in separate beds, because they're better rested and less pissed off at their partner for stealing the covers or snoring or whatnot.  

[Crazy Enough to Join]

I think almanzo had an illness that rendered him infertile.

[libgirl2]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Don't forget the episode of Albert's addiction. And of course there was no actual Albert in real life.

Even the show screwed up Albert a fictional character. At the end of the addiction episode (I think) it was said Albert became a doctor. Then in a later episode Albert is dying. huh? 

12 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

There’s been a lot of discussion about how much of the books Rose wrote or edited. Ghost in the Little House is the main pro-Rose one; Laura Ingalls Wilder: A Writer’s Life by Pamela Smith Hill is Team Laura. Pamela Smith Hill also edited the recent edition of Pioneer Girl, the autobiography that Laura wrote before she turned to juvenile fiction. I recently read Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder, the first serious biography of her. It’s very good, though the historical background at the beginning of the book is so extensive that you’ve forgotten it’s a biography by the time Laura shows up. The main thing I took away from it was that Rose was seriously mentally ill, most likely bipolar.

I have read the same thing in other books about Laura. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

4 minutes ago, kachuu said:

Laura & Almanzo slept in separate beds

Only in Mansfield, apparently. She mentions A bed or THE bed when they married.

2 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

I think almanzo had an illness that rendered him infertile.

Their son was born after Almanzo contracted diphtheria.

[singsingsing]

Just now, Crazy Enough to Join said:

I think almanzo had an illness that rendered him infertile.

I've always heard that his illness rendered him infertile, too, but I'm not 100% sure of the validity of that. She did have two babies fairly quickly after she got married, and sadly infant mortality was a common reality at that time, so it's not surprising that one of them died, unfortunately (or that her brother died).

As for the other sisters, Mary never married, and I thought Carrie didn't get married till her 40s, so she was past childbearing age. The fact that Grace never had any children could've been a fluke, or it could have been an issue with her husband.

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

I think almanzo had an illness that rendered him infertile.

Didn't he have typhoid? 

I thought Carrie and Grace both married at an older age to older men. Mary never did. 

[singsingsing]

Just now, libgirl2 said:

Didn't he have typhoid? 

I thought Carrie and Grace both married at an older age to older men. Mary never did. 

He had diphtheria. Carrie was in her 40s when she married, but Grace was in her 20s iirc. Not sure how old her husband was, though.

I thought Almanzo had a complication of diphtheria that might have gradually worsened, rendering him infertile later on, but I could be totally wrong. There are a lot of reasons why a previously fertile couple might no longer be able to have children.

[libgirl2]

I take that back, Grace was only 24. 

Diabetes ran in the family and Grace died from complications.

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

 

I thought Almanzo had a complication of diphtheria that might have gradually worsened, rendering him infertile later on, but I could be totally wrong. 

He had a stroke after the diphtheria. Possibly that?

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I take that back, Grace was only 24. 

Diabetes ran in the family and Grace died from complications.

I think back in the day it was recommended that diabetic mothers avoid pregnancy.

[libgirl2]

They both had diptheria but he had complications that caused temporary paralysis. He used a cane for the rest of his life. They also seemed to have suffered from extreme poverty so maybe diet wasn't the best? 

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think back in the day it was recommended that diabetic mothers avoid pregnancy.

Was she diabetic at that point, though? I always thought she developed it later in life.

[Audrey2]

Cynthia Rylant wrote Old Town in the Green Groves: the Lost Little House Years, which tells of the birth and death of Laura's little brother. As I recall, that time was so hard for Laura that she was never able to write that book.

[JermajestyDuggar]

21 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Was she diabetic at that point, though? I always thought she developed it later in life.

Oh I am not sure. It seems like so many people didn't have children back in the day that it could have been anything. They could have prevented or they could have infertility due to a number of reasons. 

[Satan'sFortress]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm wondering if there, also, was some sort of issue with fertility among the Ingalls girls. Laura is the only one who had biological children, and only Rose lived to adulthood; she had no children. Neither Laura's son nor Caroline's son survived infancy - a genetic thing, maybe?

It's always puzzled me, especially in their era - when "lots of children" were the norm, rather than the exception.

Just thinking out loud... er... thinking on forum...

Rose was married and had a stillborn son & apparently complications from that left Rose infertile.

 

[slp]

Sleeping in separate beds doesn't mean they weren't having sex.  Look at Zsu and PP. They sleep in separate ROOMS and they have 10 (I think) kids now.  

It has been speculated that The Long Winter (with so many blizzards and serious malnutrition, near starvation) did a lot of damage to the Ingalls girls bodies.  Remember, Laura states that they all 'worried about Carrie' and that she never really regained her strength.  They gave her the best foods and spared her all but the lightest housework, etc.  It's possible that the malnutrition/near starvation damaged the girls bodies and caused decreased fertility, right? Not to mention Mary not marrying, Carrie being older when she married, Grace being older as well, and also the diabetic history. 

[melon]

1 hour ago, Audrey2 said:

Cynthia Rylant wrote Old Town in the Green Groves: the Lost Little House Years, which tells of the birth and death of Laura's little brother. As I recall, that time was so hard for Laura that she was never able to write that book.

She didn't like to discuss the son she lost,either.Both Laura and Rose lost sons.I think Rose's was stillborn,and Laura's lived for a short time.

 

[KelseyAnn]

22 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

oh don't forget the unwed mother episode where Laura finds the baby in the woods and Harriet thinks that Laura had a baby and Willy fathered it. that scene was hilarious. 

 

 

Yeah, I thought you guys were joking so now I have mime raping on my internet browser search. 

And let me just say, I have never seen anything so disturbing and I watch GOT. 

[Satan'sFortress]

I did read the recent annotated autobiography "Pioneer Girl".  I enjoyed it a lot, but warning---it is extremely dense in terms of content.  There are as many footnotes as story!  Very much a scholarly read, but well worth it if you are really into the LIW story.

[viii]

I was obsessed with the Rose series when I was a teenager and I always wanted her to marry Paul (I think his name was)