Josiah Duggar Part 6: Now Officially Engaged!

[gameofunbeknowns]

1 hour ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

In my experience separate bedrooms is often emblematic of something else and can lead to separate lives. I tried it out initially because my partner and I had almost opposite work schedules. That coupled with the fact that I’m super introverted and not at all needy made separate rooms seem amazing. We tried it but...long story short it didn’t work for us. It became too easy to retreat to those rooms when a disagreement arose. Or just to retreat in general. We found that our respective needs weren’t being met, albeit in different areas.

I also tend to be messy and  knowing my SO is coming home to that room is one of the impetus for me to clean, which I won’t do otherwise and really love (I love having cleaned I hate cleaning, as it were). With my personality type it also gives me an extra push, which I need and enjoy. Sharing a room for us is integral for sharing our lives. I’m sure separate rooms work for some, but not this lady.

Before we do that I suppose we ought to agree on what exactly a “downvote” is.” What is your definition?

12 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I’m sorry, I still have literally no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t recall disagreeing with you about anything. Could you be more specific? 

Yes, I can be more specific. I can be incredibly specific. I can speak about the virgins who cant drive who rely on whatever they rely upon. I can speak about the people who were considered losers when FJ was a mean place and have since become mean girls haven (hay sing!)

[Destiny]

16 minutes ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

@Destiny elaborate 

No one owes you an explanation for a downvote. Period. Someone can downvote you for any reason they wish. Making an issue out of it on the threads is against the rules. Either take it to PM, CD, or drop it, but this topic is done in this thread.

Edit: Since this is not being dropped, the relevant posts are being moved out to CD. Carry on with whatever wedding (or not) conversation was happening.

[PainfullyAware]

I have insomnia and pain which means sleeping seperately is necessary for taking care of my health. We spend every minute of the evening together right up until going to sleep. 

I used to really worry if it meant turming into roomates and not romantic partners but we've never lost the spark. Our 10 yr anniversary was this week! 

I could see retreating from dealing with tough issues or losing intimacy as being potential downsides. Every couple is so different in their habits. My tendency is to always talk through an issue and not to go to bed angry (not always possible!). I think us both having the impulse to keep engaging each other to resolve conflict tends to prevent too much retreat. 

[J'Lurker]

Almanzo had a stroke from the diphtheria. Mary probably had a stroke which left her blind. All the Ingalls girls and Charles had diabetes. Rose tried to chloroform herself to death and is one of the first recognized authors to correlate suicidal thoughts as a what we now call a mental wellness issue. Thank Rufus! Finally a use for my obsessive Laura Ingalls trivia knowledge. I LOVED all of the 'Little House' years, especially the Caroline years. I went as Laura Ingalls back-to-back Halloweens and was disgusted when the same houses still didn't know who she was. By the end I just gave people a begrudging "I'm a pioneer girl."

My childhood self was so appalled by the episode of the show where Mary couldn't see the blackboard at school so she got glasses. Mary couldn't see even the brightest light shined in her eyes, dammit. I never watched it again.

I did go to the musical though, and had a great time.

And as a good Canadian book worm, I loved the Story Girl series and the Emily books by L.M. Montgomery (but detested Anne of Green Gables). And hated their tv counterparts for taking artistic liberties with their plots.

I remeber these books being mentioned in the Jinger thread a while ago as things she could read as an intro to expanding her view on the stereotypes of strict traditional gender roles. Socioeconomic divisions have always had a huge impact on gender roles. When you're dirt poor, everyone must work to survive. Like Michelle had to until TLC. 

Not sure how coherent this was, I read the whole thread in one go and had alot of thoughts on every drift which I have regurgiated onto the page, similarly to how I regurge every time I think of the infamous Jimboob dryhump minigolf date.

Do y'all think poor SiRen had to endure something similar?

[Jellybean]

Happy anniversary @PainfullyAware! My husband and I have been together for almost 15 years and have similar issues with sleeping (mostly my pain). We still sleep in the same bed but have a split mattress (it’s adjustable head and foot with a remote control on both sides). That’s helped a lot, as we don’t disturb/hurt each other when we move. 

My grandparents always slept in separate beds. He snored, she kicked. They were better together for both getting decent sleep!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm just hoping that @HerNameIsBuffy jumps in on the LHOTP talk before it ends! 

[Queen]

I have to chime in on the debate that was going on earlier.

I'm never going to speculate on the sexuality of any not married fundie, since it might cause harm to the individual. Isn't it crazy, by the way, that merely the assumption that someone's not straight is enough for their family to turn or them, abuse them, or even - as is the case in Chechnya right now - kill them?!

But I don't get how assuming someone might be gay, bi or asexual even after they are not under their parents authority anymore would be tasteless  - as someone in the beginning of this thread said - but that assuming they might be straight is in order. My homosexuality is not something tasteless or sensational, it's merely a part of life for around 1/10 of the people worldwide. I'm tired of all the hetero-assuming, even if statistically most people fall in love with the so called opposite gender.

Again, I'm never going to make any assumptions (other than straightness, maybe) as long as the individual is living under their parents roof. I think that the rule might be necessary.

But straight is not the default. It's not neutral. 

[2manyKidzzz]

@Queen I agree that the main reason to avoid speculation is to avoid any harm coming to an individual because of discrimination.  Media outlets might pick that up from here. In their fundie world, it could be detrimental. And the tasteless remark probably means that it is tasteless to put someone in harms way.....because of discrimination against the LGBT community in the fundie world. 

[nausicaa]

22 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

it was some dude in a clown mask or so says the episode description I read it's been a long time since I seen it but yes that show wasn't as child friendly as they wanted people to believe. 

rape, babies burning alive. kidnappings (multiple of those) children drowning. children dying of cancer miscarriages  multiple baby deaths  young teens having babies and abandoning them in the woods. (that one is a long story that turns out well but still) 

Yeah, @HerNameIsBuffy taught me about the clown-mask wearing rapist haunting the prairie and all of the other fires, pre-marital sex, and various felonies going on. 

Shit went down on the prairie. 

[VelociRapture]

15 minutes ago, Queen said:

I have to chime in on the debate that was going on earlier.

I'm never going to speculate on the sexuality of any not married fundie, since it might cause harm to the individual. Isn't it crazy, by the way, that merely the assumption that someone's not straight is enough for their family to turn or them, abuse them, or even - as is the case in Chechnya right now - kill them?!

But I don't get how assuming someone might be gay, bi or asexual even after they are not under their parents authority anymore would be tasteless  - as someone in the beginning of this thread said - but that assuming they might be straight is in order. My homosexuality is not something tasteless or sensational, it's merely a part of life for around 1/10 of the people worldwide. I'm tired of all the hetero-assuming, even if statistically most people fall in love with the so called opposite gender.

Again, I'm never going to make any assumptions (other than straightness, maybe) as long as the individual is living under their parents roof. I think that the rule might be necessary.

But straight is not the default. It's not neutral. 

Personally, I don’t like to speculate in general about sexuality (whether that’s straight or gay, etc.) I just don’t feel like it’s any of my business what their sexualities are. Most of these people appear to be sticking with fundamentalism thus far and I do wonder what kind of impact speculation could have on them even after they no longer live with their parents - for instance, how will their spouse react or will what I think hurt their ability to provide for any kids they may have? That said, once married they’re considered full adults and are completely capable of choosing to leave that lifestyle if they want to. So I understand why the rule only covers unmarried offspring. I’m still not personally comfortable with speculation happening after marriage, but I’m also not going to hand slap anyone who does wait until then because it’s allowed at that point and I respect that.

As for speculating about non-famous people, I still don’t do that. It makes sense if you’re trying to figure out if they’d be interested in you romantically, but I’m married - so it’s not like I’d be looking for a relationship with anyone else regardless of my sexuality. And if I was that’s a big problem since husband and I are monogamous. I just feel like it wouldn’t be my place to question or like I’m overstepping.

I do really wish we were at a place where sexuality wasn’t a big deal. I think the US is slowly moving in that direction and I’m honestly just trying not to cause harm to anyone (famous or not) who may not be ready or willing to come out. 

(To sum up: It’s less me wanting rules made or changed and just a personal comfort level for me. I don’t want to be the reason anyone, even a Fundie, is shunned or harmed.)

[lizzybee]

FWIW my grandparents have been married almost 61 years and have slept in separate rooms all of my life and a lot of my dad's life. I grew up in their house because they took me in and raised me as their own for many years of my life. They're happily married. It started, I believe, while he was working the night shift and they just kept their own beds even after he retired. At this point they've been each other's life-long companions for such a large portion of their lives that I don't think it really mattered where they were sleeping. 

[bekkah]

I honestly think I will be in the separate bed category if I ever get a SO. 

 

Talking abiut Laura Ingalla Wilder, I have been to walnut grove and the play they put on ever July. Well worth the trip.  

 

I also read Betsy and Tacy books ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy-Tacy). I liked those better than LHOP. I am a MN so I was into things that happened in the state. 

[Jellybean]

This is not an official mod position, but I personally think the suggestion that someone might have had heterosexual sex before marriage (if they’re still reliant on their parents), or otherwise ‘sinned’ could still be damaging to them. We know that some of the fundies we follow do read here, and my fundie parent would have been pretty livid to ‘find out’ (true or not) that I was having sex while under their roof, and I would have felt vulnerable for being kicked out or otherwise punished. So I tend to consider the kids/kidults vulnerable as long as they’re reliant on their parents (under their umbrella of protection) and try to moderate my own speech accordingly. That’s not supposed to sound preachy, and it isn’t a rule here, but I thought I’d add my opinion.

[AtlanticTug]

My husband and I had separate rooms each time we had a newborn. I was at home with the baby and he was working 80 hours a week so I would sleep in the master bedroom with the baby in a bassinet or crib next to the bed and he'd sleep in the guest bedroom until we moved the baby out to their own room around 6 months. I am not a cuddler and I don't like being overheated so we have a king sized bed and I didn't mind the lack of physical closeness but I missed just being able to chat in bed before we'd go to sleep. But when you have newborns you do what you gotta do to survive.

[albireo]

FWIW I was of the understanding that any speculation about sexuality, including straight, with regard to a kid at home (e.g. saying that you think a J'kid still at home isn't a virgin) was off limits, but retroactive speculation was fine, and guesses about courtship were OK too because those are more a reflection of societal obligation than genuine attraction. I still think retroactive speculation is damaging and am not interested in doing it, but YMMV.

[prayawaythefundie]

Just wanted to say that this LIW thread drift is / was my favorite ever. 

[justoneoftwo]

I loved the Betsy Tacy books!  They were so much fun.  I also love running into someone who has read them, as they are less well known (except they are discussed in You've Got Mail, which made me squeal).

[SapphireSlytherin]

My mother bought the Betsy Tacy books for GryffindorDisappointment. She tried to read them to GryffDis. GryffDis wasn't.having.it.

[Daisy0322]

3 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

My husband and I had separate rooms each time we had a newborn. I was at home with the baby and he was working 80 hours a week so I would sleep in the master bedroom with the baby in a bassinet or crib next to the bed and he'd sleep in the guest bedroom until we moved the baby out to their own room around 6 months. I am not a cuddler and I don't like being overheated so we have a king sized bed and I didn't mind the lack of physical closeness but I missed just being able to chat in bed before we'd go to sleep. But when you have newborns you do what you gotta do to survive.

I slept in the baby's room the first 4 months because Im staying home with him and my husband already has trouble sleeping. BEST. DECISION. EVER. We all slept better, I didn't have to fuss with transitioning our son to his room I just moved out, and honestly those first few months with the baby I really just wanted to be left alone with him lol. I know that's probably weird but along with it almost feeling like a primordial instinct; I am really comfortable with babies and knew what I wanted to do while in the other hand my husband had no clue and took 35 minutes to change a single diaper and needdd help. I was just tired and didn't have the patience. Now the baby is sleeping more and my husband is a pro at "baby duty" since I have to energy to teach him things. 

ETA: He took sooo many tries to learn to put our sons pants on lol his main issue was being afraid to hurt him.

[Nargus]

4 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

I slept in the baby's room the first 4 months because Im staying home with him and my husband already has trouble sleeping. BEST. DECISION. EVER. We all slept better, I didn't have to fuss with transitioning our son to his room I just moved out, and honestly those first few months with the baby I really just wanted to be left alone with him lol. I know that's probably weird but along with it almost feeling like a primordial instinct; I am really comfortable with babies and knew what I wanted to do while in the other hand my husband had no clue and took 35 minutes to change a single diaper and needdd help. I was just tired and didn't have the patience. Now the baby is sleeping more and my husband is a pro at "baby duty" since I have to energy to teach him things. 

ETA: He took sooo many tries to learn to put our sons pants on lol his main issue was being afraid to hurt him.

I’m due in July and I’m 90% sure you’re describing exactly what’s going to happen in our house. 

[Iamtheway]

On 2018-03-08 at 9:34 AM, PainfullyAware said:

Every couple is so different in their habits. My tendency is to always talk through an issue and not to go to bed angry (not always possible!).

I’ve never understood the not going to bed angry. Going to bed angry is awesome. If you still remember what you were angry about in the morning you are well rested for the argument and if you don’t it wasn’t that important to begin with. 

[Exposed Collarbone]

@Iamtheway I saw your comment on the Unread Content page, and got into this thread just to give you love. I adore your philosophy, and will probably adopt it in the future. 

[Lgirlrocks]

On 3/6/2018 at 6:28 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

And there were unchaperoned buggy rides! I think JB&M have enough sense to know that saying “Those Little House books are too racy for our kids!” would have marked them as officially insane. They’ve also said that they can handle a single premarital kiss (in the movie Sergeant York) by reminding the kids that they don’t approve. It’s possible that their Little House set was “missing” These Happy Golden Years. All of that being said, I don’t think any of them were particularly into the books. None of the kids mentioned them as favorites, and they’ve never taken field trips to the home sites, which are relatively close to them. You were talking about the TV show, which bugs the hell out of me with its inaccuracy, so I can’t speak to whether it would be Duggar-appropriate. I expect that one kiss upon engagement late in the series would be cool.

Maybe they watch certain episodes like they do with the Andy Griffith show 

[JillRodsEyeliner]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:49 PM, justoneoftwo said:

I loved the Betsy Tacy books!  They were so much fun.  I also love running into someone who has read them, as they are less well known (except they are discussed in You've Got Mail, which made me squeal).

Now I need to watch You've Got Mail, again! One of the few "chick flicks" I never get tired of.

[bekkah]

On 3/8/2018 at 3:49 PM, justoneoftwo said:

I loved the Betsy Tacy books!  They were so much fun.  I also love running into someone who has read them, as they are less well known (except they are discussed in You've Got Mail, which made me squeal).

I totally was into them. I liked them better than Little House. Like LHOP, you can go tour the homes. They restore them. The town is based on a real town and it’s one of my fave places in MN. They are obscure but I find them charming and worth the read. I don’t think I read them all.