Boy Drowns at Fairhaven Baptist

[SoybeanQueen]

19 hours ago, Adam Case said:

which stories are you talking about? Are you referring to the ones told by the young people on CNN? Are you talking about the ones that you can find by trolling Facebook? Or are you referring to the ones that get talked about in the break room at work? They are pretty much all different and they pretty much all contradict themselves. Which would you like me to discuss?

Why not discuss all of them?

Why do you think there are so many stories of abuse? I've attended church my whole life and haven't ever been in a church where it was a normal thing to hear multiple "fake" abuse stories regarding that church. Schools, same deal. Sure, there are occasional troubled students who try to turn the tables with stories about how a school did them wrong, but most schools do not have stories like that spreading rampant all over the community or nation. Do you think that's unusual?

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, dpndetfarm said:

Your leader and church are evil.

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/52805

Thanks for finding that. Wow. That is really horrible.

Does this arrest perhaps explain why Voegtlin stepped down to Assistant Pastor?

2 hours ago, dpndetfarm said:

Under state law, Anderson, Indiana is not allowed to oversee religious schools. It's very hard to have any kind of investigations of religious schools.

Yes, Indiana's legislation really sucked in this area, and it probably still does.  After the exposure of the abuse at Hephzibah House new Federal legislation was filed to try to get minimally better oversight of all these schools nationally.  As of 2016 it had passed the House but not the Senate, IIRC.  I'm not sure where it is now.

 

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Why on earth would we be either "nice" or "tolerant" towards their church and beliefs?

See, this is one of the things that totally bugs me about the internet in general, and right wing / fundie commenters in particular. Fundies and their ilk expect a different definition of tolerance than they give. My definition: you are welcome to be wrong and bad, as long as you aren't infringing on my rights or the rights of others, but I'm gonna feel free to call you out. Their definition: you have to allow me to spout shit unimpeded, even if what I am saying hurts others or is calling for infringement of their rights. 

Tolerance doesn't mean not calling you on your shit, it means that you aren't going to jail, being beaten up, or in the case of FJ, banned for talking the shit. 

 

[RosyDaisy]

I will NEVER be nice or tolerant towards fundies. These people advocate and cover up abuse. Why should anyone tolerate that? Too many people have been hurt.

[Lurky]

Out of interest, do we know how "nice" and "tolerant" Fairhaven church is about beliefs that aren't theirs?  Are they kind and tolerant to LGBT people, Muslims, women who work for a living or want to use birth control, eg, or do they say they're all a bunch of evil sinners?   Certainly they don't seem to have been fair and kind to all of the young people in their care....

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, Lurky said:

Out of interest, do we know how "nice" and "tolerant" Fairhaven church is about beliefs that aren't theirs?  Are they kind and tolerant to LGBT people, Muslims, women who work for a living or want to use birth control, eg, or do they say they're all a bunch of evil sinners?   Certainly they don't seem to have been fair and kind to all of the young people in their care....

Given that they appear to be fans of shunning (http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2011/09/30/why-im-not-100-for-fairhaven-baptist-church/) I'm going with no.

[EowynW]

5 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

I will NEVER be nice or tolerant towards fundies. These people advocate and cover up abuse. Why should anyone tolerate that? Too many people have been hurt.

To be fair, not all do. When an incident in my former church came to light, the offender was reported, removed from membership and leadership and jailed within 48 hours of the pastor finding out. He's serving a 7 year prison term now.  

[Lurky]

@Destiny I don't think I can even pretend to be surprised!

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

Why are all the nice tolerant people on this forum so nasty when we try to reason with them.....Pretty sure I just got verbally abused on here...

Tsk, tsk, didn't you pay attention to @Adam Case when it comes to making assumptions?! 

1. I'm not nice. Why did you think I was? I can be very mean when the notion strikes me.

2. I'm not tolerant at all of many things. 

3. Nasty is hitting children. 

4. Show me the reasoning you and Adam have tried. So far you talked about punks and Adam seemed to struggle to keep his stories straight. Not reasonable. 

5.  If you aren't ready to have your beliefs challenged then this really isn't the place for you. We push back a lot. If you think this is verbal abuse then you have lived a charmed life. Be happy this is the worst you have experienced. You are very lucky. 

2 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

I'm going to start predicting the replys I get.This is like my cat with a laser

Don't cheat. Share you predictions. If you don't then you can claim you predicted anything after we write it. My predictions on you and Adam is that you will both continue speaking in circles without giving any solid answers and when it becomes convenient, Adam will start changing his story like his did with his "hard time spent in prison" and "I didn't tell anyone I was abused by adults" stories. 

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

They really need more and better staffing at the Fairhaven Abuse Apologist desk.

They really do. I feel like we got stuck with a less lovable Spicey. 

[samurai_sarah]

Excessive quoting is against the rules. It makes the forum less readable for members on mobile devices. Please refrain, unless you want a personal PM from me!

 

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

I'm going to start predicting the replys I get.This is like my cat with a laser

And here I was complaining just this morning that you two were too boring for me to even use as cat toys.  You're absolutely predictable. 

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

I feel like it's time for the gif about axe murderers on the internet to come out again. 

[Carol]

21 hours ago, Adam Case said:

You can land-blast me if you would like but I grew up with all of the younger ones, including Sam and Butch. I know their stories.

I don't think there's a soul here who would want to landblast you. 

 

land blasted

verb. - To get bent over and "taken" violently on a parcel of land.

Margie had on her school girl outfit walking through farmer Dan's pasture when Eddie ran up behind her and land blasted her.

#land #blast #landblast #lambast #taken #violent

 

It's lambast ya fekkin' moron. 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, Carol said:

It's lambast ya fekkin' moron. 

Oh, many thanks for the translation!

I had absolutely NO idea about what he was burbling about.

[ADoyle90815]

I'm another who will NEVER be tolerant of fundies, especially those who cover up abuse, and who love to attack victims and their families.

[formergothardite]

The things you learn at Free JInger. No I will not want to land blast Adam one bit. 

[SadieJane]

Hi. Its me again. The woman who lives locally by Fairhaven that has a slightly weird obsession with fundy life.  With everything that I have said, that I know to be true as they were told to me by first hand accounts, from very well trusted and decent people, who are no longer at Fairhaven, and from my experiences as a mom, with the bus incident, I refuse to believe that the allegations are false. Especially knowing that children have, and will most likely continue to be paddled by adults at this church/school. With all of that on account, I talked to my best friend, who i will not name because you will not dox her, and she said that they used to swim test all the swimmers for the pool. I cannot state that this is currently the truth of the matter, but that it used to be, so I am going to assume its still true. I'll give them that.

However, the way that the youth that are a part of this school/church, is appauling, and I know that there have been tons of complaints made locally for a long time now.  My mom group knows that you don't put your kids on that bus, and its spreading, but it needs to be stated that this institution is the face of what is fundy in this neck of the woods, and they hold to the practices that most of your fundy bloggers, think Duggers, Maxwells, well pretty much any of the ones you will ready about. Its not for me and mine so we stay far far away. 

Now another personal account. I do photography work when I am not working with my psych patients. I was taking pictures at an outdoor wedding that was being officiated by , what I am going to assume was a pastor or lay pastor from this church. The pastor from the church brought his wife, and they seemed a bit on the frigid side when I tried to introduce myself. Whatever.  Now I was taking pictures, doing my thing, when the sister of the bride, who is a very good friend of mine, and not a Fairhaven person, said that the wife of the pastor had asked me to leave because my shoulders were showing..... Yep this happened. I did not leave, as I was already paid by the bride, and was more or less shunned by the dude and his wife. 

I am not complaining, they didnt seem like people I personally would care to know, but this is a basic character reference of the experience I have had with the then (maybe) leadership that was there.  Do they have outreach.... I guess if talking kids into talking their desperate for quiet time moms into letting them board the bus and go to church, yeah sure.  But I will tell you that there are abuses happening, and I will tell you that I am 99.9 sure that they have caused mental damage to a decent portion of their students and church going children.  Anddddd I am done.

[SoybeanQueen]

11 hours ago, Adam Case said:

I better change paragraphs so that you know I am answering a different question now.

Generally, when representing your church in matters of public perception, it's not a good idea to be so rude or condescending.

I had never even heard of Fairhaven until a few days ago. Your posts have actually done more to make me suspect there's a lot wrong in that church/school than anything else I've read online.

[Darwinesque]

3 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

 

I had never even heard of Fairhaven until a few days ago. Your posts have actually done more to make me suspect there's a lot wrong in that church/school than anything else I've read online.

I completely agree. 

I come to FJ with little to offer but a lot to learn. I'm not in the US, and religious fundamentalism  is something I've never encountered in my life, and so I go online with an open mind to educate myself. I appreciate the first and second hand accounts that I read, I think they are the best way to form an honest opinion. 

What the Fairhaven 2 have managed to do is to reaffirm any preconceived ideas that I may have had. It's really not gone down well.

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm in line behind @Darwinesque. I had never heard of Fairhaven before this.

I'm still confused by the appearance of these folks defending this church. When I Googled "drowning at Fairhaven", this thread came up #4, but I doubt it was that high when the thread was on page one. Why come here, specifically? There must be other places to do damage control.

[Curious]

Since our new friends @Marvin Miller and @Adam Case obviously came here and didn't bother to read the various helpful documentation we provide and I am feeling generous right now, I offer the following:

From About Us:
 

Quote

If your viewpoint tends to the “traditional,” you don’t need to leave – in fact, you are welcome, because otherwise we’re just a bunch of hens agreeing with each other – but you do need a nice thick hide and the intellectual ability to defend your thinking. “Because Mama and Jesus told me so” is not good enough.

Our Mission Statement:

Quote

 

"Childbearing. Child rearing. Gender equality. Religion. Race. Regionalism. A woman's right to her body. Money/welfare. My god, everything my mama and Miss Manners ever said NOT to talk about among strangers!!"

Free Jinger is a free speech zone.  We do not allow hate speech and we limit direct discussion of children. If you don't like what someone is saying, challenge them. Logic and reason are prized here, as well as thoughtful debate. Be prepared to don your asbestos underoos, though.

If you are not okay with these topics, just leave. They are the point of this board.

Or, as one of our members said: "What is discussed in this forum is Supreme Court stuff--literally--...the venting might be ranting. No grammar police, no fully enforced punctuation rules, but please don't wade in if things religious and reproductive will harm your psyche, because this should be a safe place to marvel at the massive political and social movements about to overtake our nation. And recipes."

You have been warned. Welcome!

 

 

[Kailash]

First Adam Case was making it sound like he went to prison, then saying he worked there. I'm confused. Mostly he sounds like a lying liar who lies but what do I know? 

[Palimpsest]

@SadieJane, hi.

 I'm afraid I don't remember you and don't know whether you have ever asked to be verified here.  We tend to take "insider information" with a pinch of salt unless people are verified by our administration team (they will keep your identity confidential).  I'm afraid we've had too many people come here with so-called personal knowledge of people and situations who turned out to be making things up out of whole cloth.

You said: "With all of that on account, I talked to my best friend, who i will not name because you will not dox her."  Well, thanks for not naming your friend because then YOU would have doxxed her!  Had you done so, I and probably many others would have reported your post to ask for her name to be redacted and to check whether it was against our rules and Guidelines.  

You might want to review our all our Guidelines and FAQ.  The private information rule I'm thinking of can be found here:  http://www.freejinger.org/faq/8-guidelines/#elQuestion-106

[Grimalkin]

Fairhaven looks like a massive institution. I wonder how reaching they are in the community. Thier relationship with law enforcement and government officials of Chersterson, Burns Harbor, and Porter. I bet it runs deep.

[Adam Case]

Good afternoon, folks! I thought it would be appropriate to explain my absence. As it turns out, I am only allowed to post a certain number of posts in a 24-hour period. I found that limit yesterday and received notice that I had to wait 24 hours to post again. With that said, I am going to make some final comments and move on with my life. I must say that the time that I spent here was enjoyable to say the least, and I appreciate the banter that I encountered. I was relieved about something me of the comments I received late yesterday. I won’t quote them, so that I won’t get flagged for over-quoting. In essence, what they say was that I had made Fairhaven look bad from my presence in this conversation. This is a huge relief to me. I actually thought that most of you believed the stories of rape, abuse and the cover-up. Logically speaking, if my circular reasoning, vague details (or lack of), twisting stories, even accusations of lying made Fairhaven look bad, then you must not have actually believed the reputation that Fairhaven apparently has. I don’t think anyone here would think that my presentation here is worse than rape and assault.  Don’t get me wrong. I understand why you claim to believe everything that you get from Google. I am on one side and you are on the other. That’s how debates work. You have to keep the conversation alive somehow. It was brilliant. Another thing that confused me for the longest time was how one couldn’t make the correlation between my story and theirs. How many people couldn’t understand how one missing detail can change a whole story. Looking back, I know that many of you are very logical and got it. If you don’t mind, could you explain it to the others? I would appreciate it. Unfortunately, I have to get back to the daily grind of work. Maybe sometime down the road, I will get some spare time and we can chat in this forum or the next. I would enjoy that. 

In closing, I am glad about something else. I started in this forum to simply explain some misconceptions about a tragedy that happened a little over a week ago. Since then, a full investigation has been done that clears everyone involved as well as Fairhaven who simply provided a pool for their entertainment. This does not make it easier for the mother to deal with, I understand. She will always feel the loss. For this reason, we at Fairhaven are heartbroken for her and her remaining kids. I would like to encourage everyone to think about this hurting family. The funeral expenses have been paid by members of Fairhaven, but there are some outstanding expenses that they are still looking for help with. Anybody who is interested is more than willing to look up his gofundme.com account to help out. I’m sure the mother would appreciate your generosity. 

Thank you for your time, all. I have to get back to my busy life now. I will check in from time to time. 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

14 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

 .  I thought it would be appropriate to explain my absence. As it turns out, I am only allowed to post a certain number of posts in a 24-hour period. I found that limit yesterday and received notice that I had to wait 24 hours to post again.

 

This is strange. Are you sure that's what happened? It's not how FJ usually works.