Boy Drowns at Fairhaven Baptist

[purjolok84]

Definitely am aware of the things said on CNN and the internet.I saw it all and Just a few punk kids blaming everything on their parents and their church background.But that's the culture we live in.NOTHING has ever been true.Not even once.In the 40 years since this church has been around it would have been shut down if these things were true.Show me one shred of real evidence of child abuse and I will fund the legal bills to go after the individual.I own a business in Chesterton and definitely have the resources.

I guess CNN would never have been involved in your godly, upright town where nothing ever happens if it weren't for those gosh darn punk kids and their lying ways, huh?

So ... how does a grown boy in a nice town drown in a good church with TWO adults present? Was it accidental? Were those adults culpable in some way? Or do I turn to the gosh darn punk kids for a rational explanation?

[klynn]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 10:14 AM, Marvin Miller said:

Definitely am aware of the things said on CNN and the internet.I saw it all and Just a few punk kids blaming everything on their parents and their church background.But that's the culture we live in.NOTHING has ever been true.Not even once.In the 40 years since this church has been around it would have been shut down if these things were true.Show me one shred of real evidence of child abuse and I will fund the legal bills to go after the individual.I own a business in Chesterton and definitely have the resources.

 

Well, all the abuse that's gone on at that horrific Hephzibah House are true, and as far as I'm aware, that hell is still open, so....

[Adam Case]

On 7/9/2017 at 1:18 PM, polecat said:

On 7/7/2017 at 9:13 AM, funyuns_and_fundies said:

A 12 year old boy just drowned in the pool at Fairhaven Baptist Church while there were 2 adults in the pool. This is the place that CNN covered in there piece about abuse in the name of religous disclipline, along with Hephzibah House. Fairhaven has a connected school and college.

I went to school/church at Fairhaven. It's hell. 

Marvin Miller -- unless you actually went to school there, you have no business saying no child abuse has ever occurred there. NONE whatsoever. You DO NOT KNOW. And their reputation in the community is shit. So my guess is that you're either an adult who attends church there and are complicit or you are some other church supporter who has no clue what is going on there. I personally know two of the people who are in that CNN report, and I know of an instance of baby abuse (BABY abuse!), reported it, and nothing, to my knowledge, ever came of it. 

There was no lifeguard on duty at the time, and apparently, they didn't have any. A child can drown in just a few inches of water, so yes, he could have drowned in 3 feet of water. The pool I go to has lifeguards -- several of them -- on duty at all times. A couple weeks ago, there was a near-drowning. No one noticed the boy when it happened. I am not even sure people noticed the lifeguard diving in. I only noticed the lifeguard getting out of the pool, which was weird because they never get in the pool, and that's when I noticed she was carrying something. The kid. Another lifeguard was standing right there to help haul the kid out. The kid was fine, but just about no one noticed *anything*, even the people who were right there. Drowning really is silent. And when people are playing in a pool, they're not paying attention to what's going on around them. It's a horrible tragedy, but with a lifeguard, it could have been prevented.

Who are you, Polecat? I have gone through the system at Fairhaven and am just curious to know if we have crossed paths or not. 

[polecat]

43 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

Who are you, Polecat? I have gone through the system at Fairhaven and am just curious to know if we have crossed paths or not. 

I'm not comfortable sharing my name. I'm a bit younger than the current pastor and attended a few years behind him. 

[formergothardite]

@Adam Case, what is your opinion of the school and Marvin Miller? 

Drowning can happen so quickly and without people noticing. People tend to think of the movie version of drowning where the person comes up splashing and screaming for help, but we had a close call at my cousin's pool a couple of years ago. We were in the pool and suddenly realized one of the kids was drowning. It happened so fast. It was terrifying. 

[Adam Case]

55 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

what is your opinion of the school and Marvin Miller? 

Drowning can happen so quickly and without people noticing. People tend to think of the movie version of drowning where the person comes up splashing and screaming for help, but we had a close call at my cousin's pool a couple of years ago. We were in the pool and suddenly realized one of the kids was drowning. It happened so fast. It was terrifying.

My opinion of Fairhaven is that in our lives, we are put in places that we may not want to be, but the experience that we have and the outcome depends on who and what we allow to effect us. I spent some time in Indiana State Prison and my experience there was part of the worst moments of my life, but in many ways, I would never be where I am without it. My experience at ISP taught me to make the best of life no matter what. I can say that I I spent many years liking Fairhaven and I spent many years hating Fairhaven. 

On a different note, I have seen a near drowning myself and it was not like the movies. One minute, we were all having fun. Nobody noticed the body under 10 feet of water. The next, the lifeguard dove in and pulled him out. Time stood still as the live guard attempted CPR. It was an eternity before paramedics showed up. The boy was revived on his way to the hospital. It happens fast and is terrifying for everyone. 

57 minutes ago, polecat said:

I'm not comfortable sharing my name. I'm a bit younger than the current pastor and attended a few years behind him. 

Did you attend the college or the academy? Most people on here won't actually know either of us. I'm just curious as to who I am talking to.  I remember those days well. He was my sister's Youth Pastor. 

[formergothardite]

That was a delightfully vague reply @Adam Case!  Have you considered going into politics? I'll attempt to be more specific this time. Do you believe the stories of abuse? 

Also, understand that it is really, really not wise to give out one's personal info to strangers on the internet, so don't be surprised if polecat remains anonymous. On the internet it is best to proceed as if the people you are speaking to might be ax wielding serial killers. 

ETA: Also for @Marvin Miller and @Adam Case, how did you find this thread? Were you already hanging out here or is there some sort of Google alert for when someone is discussing the church/school? 

[SadieJane]

Obviously none of you know the facts and jumped to conclusions before even digging into things.I live a mile away from Fairhaven and this church enjoys a stellar reputation in the community as one of the few churches in the area who does any outreach at all.There has never been ANY child abuse at this facility,
In this unfortunate tragedy the autopsy is still pending but the lad who reportedly drowned was standing in three feet of water.There was no abuse,or punishment involved.

I also live by this place. They tried to get my kids who were outside playing, to get on a bus with bribes of toys and candy while I was watching. I went ballistic. I know tons of people, mostly friends who have survived their education there and tell nightmares of being left in big cities to sell candy bars to "raise money" for "band equipment" that they have never seen. There are very well known abuse allegations within the mom community around here and the stories I have gotten from my bestie in regards to the nightmares she has gone thru lead me to believe that everything negative happening are probably true.

[Coconut Flan]

22 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

Did you attend the college or the academy? Most people on here won't actually know either of us. I'm just curious as to who I am talking to.  I remember those days well. He was my sister's Youth Pastor. 

We frown on that kind of thing here.  Doxing people is not allowed and basically you are asking someone to identify him or herself. 

[Adam Case]

5 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

We frown on that kind of thing here.  Doxing people is not allowed and basically you are asking someone to identify him or herself. 

My apologies. I just figured that there should be a face behind an accusation. 

17 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Do you believe the stories of abuse? 

Talk about vague..... which stories are you talking about? Are you referring to the ones told by the young people on CNN? Are you talking about the ones that you can find by trolling Facebook? Or are you referring to the ones that get talked about in the break room at work? They are pretty much all different and they pretty much all contradict themselves. Which would you like me to discuss?

[formergothardite]

The ones on CNN. 

And wow it sounds like even locally that place is plagued with stories of abuse. That is a HUGE red flag that there is something bad going on. 

[polecat]

7 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

My apologies. I just figured that there should be a face behind an accusation. 

Oh, I made no specific accusations against anyone, so it's okay if I don't offer a name. I understand if you think I'm just making it up, and I don't really care all that much.

[Adam Case]

26 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The ones on CNN.

Here is what I know about those stories: there is some truth to most of them, surrounded by a lot of lies and even more distortion of the truth. You can land-blast me if you would like but I grew up with all of the younger ones, including Sam and Butch. I know their stories. I know all of the details of the story Alison told. I was close friends with David and I know more than most about his story. Kelly was a close friend of mine. Me and Jeremiah hung out a lot. I wrestled Butch and Sam was my weightlifting partner for a summer. I speak with authority here.  What actually happened was not at all accurately portrayed in the CNN report. Since the report was aired, 2 of them have publically apologized to the church for the lies they told. At least 2 of the stories that were told were gross distortions of the truth where it made the church appear to be the perpetrator when the church did everything they could to stop it from happening. The blame in both of these stories actually lies with the family. One of the stories that I remember from the report (it has been a year or more since I saw it) is absolutely absurd if you actually think about it. I cannot say that wrong was never done, but I was mistreated at Walmart a while back, and still, being a glutton for punishment, I continue to get my groceries there. I realize that Walmart didn't do anything to me. It was a human being, a person that did it. A person who is no more perfect than I am. 

[funyuns_and_fundies]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

ETA: Also for @Marvin Miller and @Adam Case, how did you find this thread? Were you already hanging out here or is there some sort of Google alert for when someone is discussing the church/school? 

This is exactly what I was wondering... Idk it seems kind of weird that 2 new members would just randomly appear to defend Fairhaven. Everything could be totally fine, but something just seems off to me. I don't mean to go all Nancy Drew on y'all lol

[polecat]

Talk about distorting the truth. I swear. 

We're not just a bunch of stupid women-folk here, you know. We even know how to use Google when our Commanders allow us to! 

Blessed be the fruit,

Ofpolecat

[Adam Case]

19 minutes ago, funyuns_and_fundies said:

This is exactly what I was wondering... Idk it seems kind of weird that 2 new members would just randomly appear to defend Fairhaven. Everything could be totally fine, but something just seems off to me. I don't mean to go all Nancy Drew on y'all lol

I don't find it odd at all that 2 members would defend Fairhaven. A friend of mine at work (U. S. steel) saw the news in the paper and then found this blog. I confess that he directed me here. I was surprised to see Marvin's post. You would have to know him to know why I was surprised. He does not seem to be the 'blogging' type. I defended Fairhaven because I know the facts. First, the boy had asthma. I mention this only as a possible complication in he matter. To my knowledge, the autopsy does not list this as a contributing factor, so I will not say that it was. I simply note it as fact. The boy had asthma. Second, this was not a church event. It was actually a time when the pool was opened for families. The requirement for one to be in he pool at this time is that anyone under 18 has to be supervised by an adult, which is actually a lot more strict than the guidelines layed out by the health department. Besides that, it was a small group of guys from a church in Chicago that came in our use our facilities. They had their own adult supervision. The 2 men mentioned in he paper were actually watching their own sons in hot-tub about 20 feet from the pool. One was an off-duty EMT. He did everything he could to save the boy, performing CPR until local rescue showed up and took over. I'm defending a bystander to a horrific tragedy. 

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

 

And wow it sounds like even locally that place is plagued with stories of abuse. That is a HUGE red flag that there is something bad going on. 

Nice try. If the Sun says it, is it so? (From Miracle on 34th Street). Just because there are stories, even stories aired on national television, they aren't all true, and ones that have truth to them aren't always completely true. Be careful what you believe. Have you ever played Chinese Telephone? Stories change and get twisted when getting passed from one person to another. I speak intelligently about a story or I don't talk about it, because I don't take the story that someone told me to be Gospel. 

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, SadieJane said:

I also live by this place. They tried to get my kids who were outside playing, to get on a bus with bribes of toys and candy while I was watching. I went ballistic. I know tons of people, mostly friends who have survived their education there and tell nightmares of being left in big cities to sell candy bars to "raise money" for "band equipment" that they have never seen. There are very well known abuse allegations within the mom community around here and the stories I have gotten from my bestie in regards to the nightmares she has gone thru lead me to believe that everything negative happening are probably true.

That's just straight-up human trafficking. The Polaris Project used basically this scenario as an example of human trafficking.

How the hell is a place like this allowed to keep running? Rhetorical question because I know the answer(s).

[Georgiana]

14 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

I defended Fairhaven because I know the facts...because I don't take the story that someone told me to be Gospel. 

Two points: 

1. Unless you were actually there you ARE actually just relating a story someone told you as fact. 

2. Ironic statement about the Gospels considering that what you're complaining about is LITERALLY how the Gospels and Christianity work and have always worked. 

[polecat]

14 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

Nice try. If the Sun says it, is it so? (From Miracle on 34th Street). Just because there are stories, even stories aired on national television, they aren't all true, and ones that have truth to them aren't always completely true. Be careful what you believe. Have you ever played Chinese Telephone? Stories change and get twisted when getting passed from one person to another. I speak intelligently about a story or I don't talk about it, because I don't take the story that someone told me to be Gospel. 

You know what? There have been studies showing that memory can be a hazy, funny thing and not always 100 percent reliable. But it's the best we have when it comes to years later. If you have many people telling fairly similar stories, then there's a good likelihood that there's a kernel of truth to them. 

The thing about abuse, though, is that people don't abuse their victims openly. They hide it. And they train their victims to hide it by shrouding them in shame. It's ugly and damaging. 

There's no need to take any story as gospel, but there's a pretty decent halfway point where you can believe that someone was hurt even if they got a few details mixed up. You don't have to call them a liar or insist they distorted the truth (like maybe pretending they spent time in the foster care system when they were actually a foster parent).

[Seahorse Wrangler]

22 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

First, the boy had asthma. I mention this only as a possible complication in he matter. To my knowledge, the autopsy does not list this as a contributing factor, so I will not say that it was. I simply note it as fact. The boy had asthma.

Would there have  been enough time to have completed a full autopsy?

 

I have no idea how long one takes but it seems a pretty small turn-around time .

[formergothardite]

18 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

then found this blog. I confess that he directed me here. I was surprised to see Marvin's post. You would have to know him to know why I was surprised. He does not seem to be the 'blogging' type.

This isn't a blog. This is a forum where we discuss the dangers of fundamentalism. You said you hated Fairhaven but that it taught you things much like the time you spent as a prisoner taught you things(by the way, congrats on turning your life around after getting out of jail!), what made you hate the place? 

 

19 minutes ago, Adam Case said:

I don't take the story that someone told me to be Gospel. 

I don't either, which is why I"m not taking you at your word when you assure me the abuse stories aren't real. And yes, if a person or organization is plagued by stories of abuse by multiple people, well I personally take that as a red flag. 

[Georgiana]

If something smells odd in my house, I investigate until I find the source. I don't walk into one room, glance around, and just leave it at that...ESPECIALLY if the smell doesn't go away.

Something smells off about this organization. And it's not going away. So I think it's time there was a thorough investigation to find the source. I'm not calling for disbandment or sanctions. I'm not calling for punishment. I'm calling for an investigation that goes thru ALL the rooms in this metaphorical house.

And it is, hypothetically at least, equally possible that the organization will be vindicated by the investigation. 

But right now with the way supporters have immediately protested any form of oversight and stooped to aggressive character assassination to try and discredit every person with a complaint against the church...NOW I think they're hiding something. And you can't blame punk kids or CNN for that.

[Palimpsest]

@Adam Case, I suggest that you take a big step back from your impassioned defense.  And take a very deep breath.  Or several.

A child died.  Isn't the dead child and their grieving family the priority here?  

Think about it.  Can you really claim that you know everything that ever went on at Fairhaven? 

How can you? 

Sometimes people disgust me.  And this is one of those times.

 

[Nikedagain?]

2 hours ago, Adam Case said:

My apologies. I just figured that there should be a face behind an accusation. 

Hmmm. I dunno. You don't sound sorry at all. And stop asking her questions like that. 

1 hour ago, polecat said:

Talk about distorting the truth. I swear. 

We're not just a bunch of stupid women-folk here, you know. We even know how to use Google when our Commanders allow us to! 

Blessed be the fruit,

Ofpolecat

Under his eye. 

[polecat]

I am not sure this is the appropriate place for this, but the helpmeets can delete if necessary. This is the GFM for Davion's funeral. It has his picture along with his family's. These are real people who are hurting desperately right now.

https://www.gofundme.com/davions-funeral-fund

It saddens me that such a thing is even necessary. In a perfect world, he'd still be here. But even in a flawed world, I'd like to think that people would have come together to take care of this without his heartbroken mom having to worry about it.