Another Duggar Courtship: Joseph and Kendra

[Cheetah]

I had my first at 28, which is quite young for my demographic.  I'd go to PTA meetings when my oldest was in high school and I was just about the only pre-menopausal woman in the room.  Now with my middle (born when I was 32) and my youngest (born when I was 35) I am much more right on target age-wise where I live.   

[grandmadugger]

2 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

I hear ya, but boyfriend also cannot or will not 1) cook 2) clean 3) do laundry, so BYE to him.

He can make bread at least.  Jinger said that's who taught her.  My husband could barely do laundry when we married and I can count the number of times he's cooked dinner on one hand.  

2 hours ago, GreenTea said:

Or have an intelligent conversation about the big topics and issues facing today's world. He might be an okay guy. We really don't know, BUT he needs to wake up and question things. Think more. Simply the lack of diversity in his current situation and reluctance to hearing different view points should make him want to know more.

Dumb and pretty doesn't cut it for me. But hey, that seems to be what his brother wanted in Kendra. Uneducated more then dumb, but still he's not shooting for "free thinker" when making his wish list.   

 

 

That's why I said minus the fundie stuff.  

[HermioneSparrow]

6 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

He can make bread at least.  Jinger said that's who taught her.  My husband could barely do laundry when we married and I can count the number of times he's cooked dinner on one hand.  

That's why I said minus the fundie stuff.  

Well I agree with you if I was a fundie girl, he's a catch and I would totally go for him.

In the real world not really but he's a fundie soooo...

[CorbinsMommy]

I feel in life you can never have success without failure, so you can really know the difference.  With them always marrying the first person they court they have no way of knowing if their spouse is really a good match.  Without a few failed relationships and dating a few bad eggs you never know the good from the bad or that there is better out there.

[HarleyQuinn]

I do wonder if Joe was in a "get to know you" stage with either Tori or Carlin Bates? Too bad they're not PA on twitter like Lawson.

[jqlgoblue]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

One of my biggest pet peeves is this idea that it used to not be normal for women over like 35 to have children. Uh, what? What do you think happened before birth control, if women continued to be sexually active and retained their fertility till 40+ (which many of them did)? "Older mothers" have always been common. They only seem like a new thing now. Because birth control gained widespread acceptance and use during the first half of the 20th century, it became the norm to limit family size BUT at the same time (esp. just after WWII) average marriage age went down. So you had people generally marrying in their early 20s, having 2-3 kids, then stopping. That's an anomaly. From a broad perspective, it's never really been the norm for women to marry young, have children young, stop having children completely while living another 50+ years.

This is true, but as you mention, I think context is key. In the past, when 10 year old's parent was 50 years old it was known/assumed that they had a few older siblings. Now, it's likely they have none or one. So, people essentially know when the parents (and lets be real, the mother) had her first and make judgments accordingly.

That said, I do actually think it is better now than when my mom had me in the early 80s. She was 35 and not only was she deemed a 'high risk' pregnancy but more than once kids in my class asked her if she was my grandmother. Anyway, I look around and at least in my circles no one had kids until 30 and I know many first time parents that are late thirties / early forties. I just hope to beat 40.

[I.SignedUpforthis]

Carlin is a knockout, let's be honest.  High energy and very like able if you are into fun.  Joseph seems reserved or to me they wouldn't gel.  The Kendra girl seems more his style. 

 

Carlin, Josie and Katie will be interesting marriages to me bc they look too good for fundie.  Almost.  

 

 

[PainfullyAware]

I don't think as a feminist I could judge any individual for having a baby as a teen or as an older mom. But on a societal level I do judge any cultural pressure on young women to choose motherhood over other options, like any patriarchy does. Those societies often do have poorer maternal mortality rates, among other problems. The issue is choice.

Sometimes I wonder about the 50+ age (male or female) having children but only as a future problem for the children. I'm 30 and couldn't imagine losing my parents or caregiving for them yet. Of course that can happen earlier to anyone but the odds are much higher for an octogenarian ...it's just not a choice I would personally make. Maybe I'm being judgmental here...

[Million Children For Jesus]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

He's not outgoing like Josiah. If it was Josiah I would think nothing of it because Josiah is friends with everyone it seems.

Josiah and Carlin Bates? That wouldn't be a terrible match. Not that I would want to wish Jim Bob as a father-in-law on any Bates. I don't hate the Bates. 

[Phoenix]

After watching the TLC announcement video I just groaned. Kendra is a fan girl! She is so, so, so young! A person has to be super young to say something like, looking forward to everyone knowing they are courting. She is also looking forward to the phone calls and texting. It only highlights how incredibly sheltered her young life has been. 

I am wondering, will she be getting her first cell phone now that she is courting? Sorry to use one of Trump's hyper-overexposed words, but that idea is honestly sad. 

As other posters noted the poor girl looked like a deer in headlights. I know she was supposed to be looking at Joe with adoration but it simply came across as lost and a bit wary. Kendra does have a nice smile.

I have a sinking feeling that Jessa could eat her alive in less than five minutes. Wanted to bang my head into a wall when Joe essentially said, well we have the same beliefs, so we should get married. If the FJ analysis of roughly three months for Duggar courtships holds steady the promise ring while sweet is kind of silly. Wow, Joe might have to forsake all others for an entire financial quarter! 

[mizandry]

Their body language in that announcement video kind of spoke volumes to me. She was like... hiding behind his shoulder and he forgot to look at her on several occasions, his back may as well have been to her. Ehhhhhhck... 

[I.SignedUpforthis]

54 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

Josiah and Carlin Bates? That wouldn't be a terrible match. Not that I would want to wish Jim Bob as a father-in-law on any Bates. I don't hate the Bates. 

Jed and Carlin.  

Although it will probably be Carlin and someone from Florida the way it's going.  

1 minute ago, mizandry said:

Their body language in that announcement video kind of spoke volumes to me. She was like... hiding behind his shoulder and he forgot to look at her on several occasions, his back may as well have been to her. Ehhhhhhck... 

I know we have to watch them climb the triangle or whatever in their courtship by the wedding date it will look right...

we got spoiled by Ben and Jessa bc we got to watch them awhile in their friendship/courtship... And Derick and Jill blossomed or grew close real quick but I can still tell they are lovey Dovey still.  

[eveandadam]

Can i just say that i Love their height difference. Like all duggar courtships we've Seen so far the Girls were a Head Shorter than the Guys. Is that a cultural / American thing? Because Here you can Hardly See any couples with a large difference in height. Tall Guys usually Choose Tall Girls for their Partner.  Same goes for Short People. Heightism is real Here, Torwards women too.

i Would have loved to be with a Tall Guy or Girl but i'm only 5'2 and , let me Tell You, in Germany this is really extremely Short and People will Look at You weird if a man chooses a much Shorter Woman as his girlfriend, at least in my experience. It. Seems height is a much more Important trait Here. a Short Woman can Almost Never be sexy. 

So can i just say that i'm Rooting for Those  fundie couples just because of their fabulous height difference. Yaasssssss!

[nastyhobbitses]

7 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

It's become a lot more normal since we started using doctors (who sanitize, have knowledge, training, and am actual medical degree.) and midwives (with knowledge, training, and a degree) instead of what would be "lay midwives." *Cough Duggars Cough* Since we have gained knowledge of the human body and infection, it's definitely more common to survive childbirth. 

Sometimes I wonder what women in Afghanistan or Sierra Leone, who travel for miles to get to a hospital to give birth or just have to do it at home where they risk a horrible death from infection, or permanent disability and stigma from fistulae (rather crudely described to me as "your kid literally rips you a new one"), would think of American women like Jill, who think that it's soooooo cool and noble to give birth without any medical assistance, and to resist it at every turn until it's clear that they/the child will die without it.

[Million Children For Jesus]

2 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Can i just say that i Love their height difference. Like all duggar courtships we've Seen so far the Girls were a Head Shorter than the Guys. Is that a cultural / American thing? Because Here you can Hardly See any couples with a large difference in height. Tall Guys usually Choose Tall Girls for their Partner.  Same goes for Short People. Heightism is real Here, Torwards women too.

i Would have loved to be with a Tall Guy or Girl but i'm only 5'2 and , let me Tell You, in Germany this is really extremely Short and People will Look at You weird if a man chooses a much Shorter Woman as his girlfriend, at least in my experience. It. Seems height is a much more Important trait Here. a Short Woman can Almost Never be sexy. 

So can i just say that i'm Rooting for Those  fundie couples just because of their fabulous height difference. Yaasssssss!

Super normal in the United States for short girls to be with tall men. The Duggar girls aren't short though. They're average. Derick looks tall. Jeremy is definitely tall. I'm 5'2" and I've never dated a man shorter than 6'1". My ex-husband is 6'3 1/2". I used to joke that short guys don't like me because only tall men ask me out. It's starting to be pretty normal to see tall women with short guys, too. 

[jakesykora]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Jessa mentioned it in a Talking Head.

And Jinger also mentioned it. I think it was either at the dress trying on time or the sisters sort of private shower/reflection time.  She even made a crack about a lock on the guest room door.

She actually possibly referenced another time with Jer (maybe that was really the episode prior when they were showing her move in after the drive down?)

One reference surprised me (in a good way) but I half-wondered if it was really only in jest. The repeated references and then Jessa also saying something made me realize it seemed like they were truly serious about not wanting company so they could begin their lives as a couple only. 

(Also gave me some hope they didn't intend to start a family and begin adding others into the mix in that way very early on either...)

[Gobbles]

@eveandadam I'm in Germany as well and I see a mix between short and tall all the time. A couple living close to me is just amazing. She is 1,50m and he is more than 2m. They have four children. (All quite tall.) And even my own experience is the same. I'm 1,58m and my "first-and-last-boyfriend" was more than 1,80m. 

I guess a worldwide (at least the western world) phenomenon is that there are barely short guys with taller girls.

 

[singsingsing]

Just regarding the 'I'm excited for everyone to know we're courting' line, from what she said immediately before about going out and doing stuff together, I think she meant that she was excited to be able to go out with him and not have to try to hide the fact that they were courting now that it's People/TLC official.

But God, she's so young. I have nothing against young marriages in general, but with fundies, I don't know, it's just sad. You look at these girls and you know there was never really another option for them. Marriage is their crowning achievement. They're never encouraged to hope for anything else. I know it's inevitable for most of them, but 18 is so young to be trapped as a baby making machine. Blah.

[BeccaGrim]

On 3/9/2017 at 6:51 AM, eveandadam said:

in a restricted community you can quickly become related to every single person within a few generations (maybe 3-4 generations). I come from a very remote region in Germany where people couldn't travel far away from their villages for centuries, the maximum would be maybe the next 2 or 3 villages but that was it. Very few people live there and the majority of the area is covered with forest. For lack of other / fresh DNA coming in from outside people started inbreeding to some degree, marrying their 2nd and 3rd cousins, sometimes even first cousins. In the 1950s  (when most people still didn't own a car) things became so bad that the old women in the villages started tracing back the family lines in detail (I'm not kidding!) and things became more obvious and relgulated. Before my grandparents got married in 1959 they made sure that they were not more closely related than 3rd cousins and only via ONE line of relation. They are 3rd cousins and where allowed to get married. They did the same thing with my parents before they got married. This may be too much information, but my parents are 4th cousins via two differnt lines, so they are twice related. Things are a lot more loose now, THANK GOD! People moving out and in and being more aware of inbreeding.

 

But I'm telling you. The Duggar, the Bates and all the other quiverfullers need to start NOW with tracing of the family lineages. It is so important. Or else things might get out of hand with 3rd generation quiverfullers.

The Bates kind of are, right?  At least this guy Tori is Courting, Bobby Smith, seems to be Fundie-lite.  And Ben and Derrick both were. They've drunk the Kool-Aid but their genes are probably spread out...

 

[ClaraOswin]

9 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

I don't think as a feminist I could judge any individual for having a baby as a teen or as an older mom. But on a societal level I do judge any cultural pressure on young women to choose motherhood over other options, like any patriarchy does. Those societies often do have poorer maternal mortality rates, among other problems. The issue is choice.

Sometimes I wonder about the 50+ age (male or female) having children but only as a future problem for the children. I'm 30 and couldn't imagine losing my parents or caregiving for them yet. Of course that can happen earlier to anyone but the odds are much higher for an octogenarian ...it's just not a choice I would personally make. Maybe I'm being judgmental here...

You never know what the future could hold. Before I had my son (in my early 30's), I had no idea I would be diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that could disable me in the future. Does it suck for my son if that happens? Yeah. But we had no way to know. (And if we had, should we not have had a child??)

My mom's father died at age 61. My mom's grandma lived to be a fairly healthy 109 year old.

Really the strongest opinion I have on the subject is that I think people should wait to have kids until they can afford at least the basics (food, shelter, clothing, etc.) Well...and they should probably not be on drugs. Or abusive. Etc. Etc.

Oh, and about the pressure to choose motherhood. I don't think people should be pressured into ANY path. They should be able to do what they want. For some, that might mean being a mother.

7 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Can i just say that i Love their height difference. Like all duggar courtships we've Seen so far the Girls were a Head Shorter than the Guys. Is that a cultural / American thing? Because Here you can Hardly See any couples with a large difference in height. Tall Guys usually Choose Tall Girls for their Partner.  Same goes for Short People. Heightism is real Here, Torwards women too.

i Would have loved to be with a Tall Guy or Girl but i'm only 5'2 and , let me Tell You, in Germany this is really extremely Short and People will Look at You weird if a man chooses a much Shorter Woman as his girlfriend, at least in my experience. It. Seems height is a much more Important trait Here. a Short Woman can Almost Never be sexy. 

So can i just say that i'm Rooting for Those  fundie couples just because of their fabulous height difference. Yaasssssss!

On average, men are taller than women. So it stands to reason that in many heterosexual relationships, the man will be taller.

For me, personally, I never really cared how tall someone was. I have been attracted to men my height (5'6"-ish) and men much taller (6'4"-ish.) My husband is about 5'11" so just a few inches taller. His height had nothing to do with why I fell in love with him though.

[fish_ca]

On 9.03.2017 at 1:51 PM, eveandadam said:

But I'm telling you. The Duggar, the Bates and all the other quiverfullers need to start NOW with tracing of the family lineages. It is so important. Or else things might get out of hand with 3rd generation quiverfullers.

They believe in creationism. It doesn't cover that stuff. They will die off eventually together with their cult.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Height is a big deal in America. Women can be short and men can be tall. But not the opposite. I'm a tall female and plenty of men wouldn't give me the time of day due to my height. The majority of men I know wouldn't date a woman taller than them. Tall men tend to be more successful. Tall men are complemented on their height and sometimes made fun of. Short men are made fun of for being short and it's never seen as a good thing. Unless you want to be a jockey. It's really not a huge deal for a woman to be short. Not only can they wear heels to make them seem taller, but tall men don't seem to shy away from them and of course short men tend to prefer them. 

My husband is one of the few men who didn't give a single fuck if a woman he is with is taller than him. I'm slightly taller. Most people don't notice. His confidence is sexy :-p

[singsingsing]

Interesting... I'm a tall woman and I've definitely been hit on by men shorter than me. I agree a lot of men are intimidated by taller women, though. And to be fair, so many women are biased against shorter men. You can't help what you're attracted to, but I think it gets a tad absurd when you're 5'4" and refuse to date a guy unless he's 6'0"+. I admittedly would prefer to date someone my height or taller, but I'd never reject a guy solely based on his height. 

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm tall and I feel awkward in heels because then I feel like I tower over people  

I wish I was like 5'2. That would be perfect. 

[JillyO]

Yeah, I'm in Germany too and short girls/tall guys is super normal here. I actually have no idea what the poster above is talking about. Now, a short guy with a tall woman, they would probably get some funny looks.

I really hope we'll (collective "we") overcome this ridiculous notion that height matters in any way soon.

ETA: I'm tall too (5'11") and IDGAF if I tower over people. I'll wear heels whenever I damn well please, and I rock them if I do say so myself. Husband certainly agrees (and he's only 2 inches taller than me, so definitely shorter when I'm wearing heels).