Another Duggar Courtship: Joseph and Kendra

[front hugs > duggs]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

There is actually another slightly less devious possibility: they simply haven't taken their Christmas decorations down yet.

THIS! I'm not sure why more people haven't offered this yet. Right before Thanksgiving 2015, we saw in a store and bought a turkey front door mat that says "gobble gobble". Took it home, laid it out, done. When Thanksgiving passed, we didn't actually know where to store it, as we live in a small condo with not much space, and no garage. All of a sudden, it's Thanksgiving 2016 and the gobble gobble mat is still in place. Come to think of it, it's ready for Thanksgiving 2017 now, too...

[SassyPants]

My parents are both 5'9. My dad comes from a family of shorter people, he is the tallest person in his family, and mom has half tall and have shorter folks.

I am 5'-3

My oldest brother is 6'-3

My youngest brother is 5'9

 

My hubs is 6 feet even

My daughter is 5'2

My son is 5'-11

3 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

THIS! I'm not sure why more people haven't offered this yet. Right before Thanksgiving 2015, we saw in a store and bought a turkey front door mat that says "gobble gobble". Took it home, laid it out, done. When Thanksgiving passed, we didn't actually know where to store it, as we live in a small condo with not much space, and no garage. All of a sudden, it's Thanksgiving 2016 and the gobble gobble mat is still in place. Come to think of it, it's ready for Thanksgiving 2017 now, too...

My friend who is 5'4 married a man 6'8

They have 3 daughters and one son- all are over 6 feet. No shorties in the group.

They were also big babies: 2, 9 pounders, 1, 10 pounder and 1, 11.5 pounder.

[Jaedzia]

2 hours ago, trustworthy said:

Wow.  Thank you for telling your story.  Really wonderful and heartfelt.  Glad to have your perspective, and glad you're on FJ.  I'm definitely NOT one of the cynics.  I believe anyone can break free eventually of dysfunction, and I have high hopes for a number of these folks.

Thanks, I appreciate that. 

[SHERA]

On 3/9/2017 at 5:28 AM, Marly said:

This is exactly what I was thinking about. When you live in such a strict and small community, and the only people you ever meet are people you go to church with (since you're being homeschooled), and everyone stays relatively put in the same area, so everyone gets their potential mates out of the same small pond, then at a certain point - although the pond might be bigger because everyone spawns like crazy - isn't everyone somehow related?
How do you prevent inbreeding in very strict and fairly closed-off communities? Granted, Jinger marrying Jeremy, someone from outside of the pond, shows that fresh blood is sometimes added into the mix. But is this the rule or is this the exception? And how do the even more strict communities, like the Amish or the Hutterites, do this? 

Exactly what is going on with the FLDS polygamists. The current batch of kids have lots of medical problems and they have been inbreeding for less than 100 years.

[singsingsing]

Fundies like the Duggars and their ilk are not going to end up like the FLDS. They're not nearly as isolated. They don't practice polygamy. They don't marry multiple sisters/aunts/mothers/cousins/etc to the same man. I've never heard of a fundie marrying their cousin, let alone uncle or half-sibling like I've heard of in the FLDS. Fundies will always be able to find outsiders to marry in. The kind of inbreeding you see with the FLDS comes from several generations of repeated very closely related matches within a tiny gene pool. They had a tiny founder population and did not recruit new converts, so the same genes got recycled again and again.

[Jaedzia]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Fundies like the Duggars and their ilk are not going to end up like the FLDS. They're not nearly as isolated. They don't practice polygamy. They don't marry multiple sisters/aunts/mothers/cousins/etc to the same man. I've never heard of a fundie marrying their cousin, let alone uncle or half-sibling like I've heard of in the FLDS. Fundies will always be able to find outsiders to marry in. The kind of inbreeding you see with the FLDS comes from several generations of repeated very closely related matches within a tiny gene pool. They had a tiny founder population and did not recruit new converts, so the same genes got recycled again and again.

 

Sounds very much like the Amish and their genetic health issues. 

[onekidanddone]

On 3/8/2017 at 4:05 PM, Dogalog said:

Okay, important things first.

Baby name theme

Joe and Kendra

Lazarus

Messiah

Nebuchadnezzar

Obadiah

Twins: Pentecost and Palestina 

Quartus

Triplets: Roma, Raphael and Rachel

Samson

Theophilus

Uriah

Vaniah

West

Xaviera

Yahweh

Zebadiah

 

 

 

 

 

Jebus.

[metheglyn]

6 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

THIS! I'm not sure why more people haven't offered this yet. Right before Thanksgiving 2015, we saw in a store and bought a turkey front door mat that says "gobble gobble". Took it home, laid it out, done. When Thanksgiving passed, we didn't actually know where to store it, as we live in a small condo with not much space, and no garage. All of a sudden, it's Thanksgiving 2016 and the gobble gobble mat is still in place. Come to think of it, it's ready for Thanksgiving 2017 now, too...

Agreed. A few years ago I decorated a fake Christmas tree in my apartment around Thanksgiving, then left to go spend the holidays with family in mid December and didn't return until early to mid January. By that point I was too lazy to take the tree down immediately and frankly enjoyed having the white lights available to turn on in that corner. Time passed...until the next Christmas rolled around and it was still up. I ended up not taking it down until my mother visited that following February and decided it was coming down even if she had to do it. (Admittedly it had gotten kind of dusty and I'm allergic so it wasn't an unreasonable decision.) But if I'd taken any pictures or video any time in that year and they faced that direction it could have easily made dating the video a serious challenge.

Compared to that, early March isn't all that late. Also, consider how late we've seen Happy Birthday Jesus banners in pictures and footage from in the TTH that even they aren't trying to suggest happened in December or early January. I think I've seen them up well into early spring, so that would likely have an impact on Jinger's approach to Christmas decorations.

[SHERA]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Fundies like the Duggars and their ilk are not going to end up like the FLDS. They're not nearly as isolated. They don't practice polygamy. They don't marry multiple sisters/aunts/mothers/cousins/etc to the same man. I've never heard of a fundie marrying their cousin, let alone uncle or half-sibling like I've heard of in the FLDS. Fundies will always be able to find outsiders to marry in. The kind of inbreeding you see with the FLDS comes from several generations of repeated very closely related matches within a tiny gene pool. They had a tiny founder population and did not recruit new converts, so the same genes got recycled again and again.

Oh my goodness, I was just going to edit my comment to add the uncle/niece 3rd wife scenario like with the Kingston's. I'm surprised the Kingston's don't have more DNA/medical problems.

[Scribber]

My mom is 5 foot flat on a good day and my dad 6'4. I am 5'2 and my sister is 5'4 so the short gene seemed to have won. 
I am currently dating someone who is 6'5. I needed a sweatshirt the other day to run to my car and his smallest one that he "outgrew" passes my knees. The sleeves go down to my knees. I could probably fit two of my shoes in one of his. For the most part it works and I don't even notice, but anytime we are like side by side brushing our teeth in front of the mirror for example, I giggle at the crazy height difference. He has three sisters 5'11 and up so if we ever reproduced I'd be interested to see if all of my children will outgrow me by age 10 or if the short gene will prevail again. 

I am 5'2", my husband 6'2". (He has a 6' sister too.)

My 8 year old is approaching 5' and I am certain she will pass me soon.

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues]

48 minutes ago, SHERA said:

Oh my goodness, I was just going to edit my comment to add the uncle/niece 3rd wife scenario like with the Kingston's. I'm surprised the Kingston's don't have more DNA/medical problems.

I'm an Australian who is descended from the First Fleet and, like most people with First Fleeters in their family tree, there are Uncle/Neice marriages as well as First Cousin marriages within the first 2-3 generations of my family in Australia.  There was only a small pool to choose from (societial expectations meant that only ex-convicts where going to marry other ex-convicts and the focus with the Aboriginal population was more about decimating them rather than learning to live with them).  A distant relative of mine researched our entire family tree in Australia only to discover that he was married to his fourth cousin!  What saved the situation genetically was that the original founding pool was quite diverse (people from different parts of Britain) and the diversity then increased again within a few generations as more people moved to Australia and families could hide their convict history.   Sometimes I read my family tree and wonder how we all managed to come out with opposable thumbs though....

[eveandadam]

3 hours ago, SHERA said:

Oh my goodness, I was just going to edit my comment to add the uncle/niece 3rd wife scenario like with the Kingston's. I'm surprised the Kingston's don't have more DNA/medical problems.

You mean the Marriages between half siblings going in there?

whatch the Vice Documentary on youtube about escaping the Kingston Clan. That guy''s parents have the Same father.

[amendgitan]

 

On 3/8/2017 at 6:50 PM, Coconut Flan said:

We can't overlook the novelty vs been there done that factor. 

It felt to me as if Kendra was reading from cue cards. 

She was totally reading from cards. You know I wonder how significant being on tv is to kids who have never really watched it. Does she feel as start struck or awe struck by the Duggars because they're on t.v. as more fundie-lite types do? I'm betting not. I bet she's more awe struck by their money. 

On 3/8/2017 at 6:59 PM, CatchThatCow said:

I like Joe but I don't think he can "carry" an episode, he's so quiet. Plus how many times do we need to see permission for courting asked, permission given, courtship offered, courtship accepted, courtship rules explained. I am pretty sure we have all got it. The only ones I am interested in learning about are Jana and John David, and if they have anything going on in their lives, they're not telling. I guess Jana's tattoo parlor is on hold indefinitely as she said in the clip show they would work on it after Jinger's wedding. Now that, I would like to see. What will the tattoo parlor be?  Sadly, I think it's a tax write off as some of you have already discussed. Fundie women can't have a business of their own, can they? Anyway, good luck to Joe and Kendra but holy cow, she is way too young. 

Yup to everything you've written. On another note, I wonder how often Michelle can feign surprise and excitement by yet another courting, engagement, wedding dress, pregnancy, gender reveal. At this point, we all know it's going to happen again and again. These things are novelty when you have a typically-sized family and no gaurantees any of your kids will get married and make you a grandparent. 

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues]

4 hours ago, amendgitan said:

 

She was totally reading from cards. You know I wonder how significant being on tv is to kids who have never really watched it. Does she feel as start struck or awe struck by the Duggars because they're on t.v. as more fundie-lite types do? I'm betting not. I bet she's more awe struck by their money. 

Yup to everything you've written. On another note, I wonder how often Michelle can feign surprise and excitement by yet another courting, engagement, wedding dress, pregnancy, gender reveal. At this point, we all know it's going to happen again and again. These things are novelty when you have a typically-sized family and no gaurantees any of your kids will get married and make you a grandparent. 

I wonder how long she will be able to remember which kid is up to which stage.  Given that she doesn't seem to know her own kids birthdays - remebering who the pregnant one is as opposed to which one needs a wedding dress is going to be tough....

[elvirajane]

A person can only have close relationships with 150 people (Dunbar's number). Supposing she doesn't have any friends, that number is hit for Michelle if every one of her kids has only 5-6 kids.

That woman will be unable to keep track of her own grandchildren. Let that sink in.

[elvirajane]

47 minutes ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

pregnant one is as opposed to which one needs a wedding dress is going to be tough...

Pregnant == the one not at home

Wedding dress == the one at home

[Scrabblemaster]

50 minutes ago, elvirajane said:

Pregnant == the one not at home

Wedding dress == the one at home

Pregnant + in need of a wedding dress = someone forgot to chaperone 

[amendgitan]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:25 AM, AlternativeVoice said:

Josie will run off with Jeb or Jud. I really wanted loud , silly, short skirt wearing Carlin up in the Duggar house though ! She would have rocked that ship!

I'm so glad she didn't end up in that hell hole! Poor Carlin! 

On 3/9/2017 at 7:30 AM, ljohnson2006 said:

Anything for ratings. Hope this doesn't fall apart like Josiah's did. 

I hope it does fall apart. I'm sad about each of these marriages because I know what they portend for the young women. No choice. Just a continuation of raising their siblings and taking care of a house except now they're raising their own kids, (until the younger ones are old enough to take over) giving birth endlessly and caring for their own house. 

On 3/9/2017 at 7:46 AM, HereticHick said:

Josiah and Marjorie's courtship falling apart was probably a blessing for both of them--it certainly was for her. If it had continued she'd be home with an infant by now. Instead, she's attending a non-fundy college, living in  a dorm, making a bit of money in her chosen major (design), with a book from a real (not vanity press) publisher coming out this spring. And she worked at Chik-fil-a--having a real job with a non-relative as your boss is invaluable.

I see no reason why Kendra and Joe should get married. As far as I can tell, neither have an adequate education or the ability to support themselves as a household.

Wow! How did you find that all out! That's wonderful news. She really dodged a bullet. She's actually living in a dorm? What kind of college was she allowed to go to?

[amendgitan]

Oh I found her social media! Boy did Marjorie Jackson escape!! She wears PANTS! Not only does she wear pants, she wears leggings! And shows her shoulders!!!!  

So happy she got out of that mess. 

[singsingsing]

Marjorie always wore pants, even when she was courting Josiah. I'm very happy she dodged the Duggar bullet and I hope it stays that way.

[Rachel333]

8 hours ago, amendgitan said:

 

She was totally reading from cards. You know I wonder how significant being on tv is to kids who have never really watched it. Does she feel as start struck or awe struck by the Duggars because they're on t.v. as more fundie-lite types do? I'm betting not. I bet she's more awe struck by their money. 

Yup to everything you've written. On another note, I wonder how often Michelle can feign surprise and excitement by yet another courting, engagement, wedding dress, pregnancy, gender reveal. At this point, we all know it's going to happen again and again. These things are novelty when you have a typically-sized family and no gaurantees any of your kids will get married and make you a grandparent. 

I don't know, I think these things are exciting even when you have a big family. My grandmother has over 40 grandchildren and great-grandchildren and she still gets excited about every new addition. She just got three new great-grandsons in two months and she was busy making baby blankets for each one of them.

Granted, Michelle isn't most people and she didn't even seem that interested in her own children once they were no longer babies.

[HideousGreenShirt]

22 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Haha, I've always liked Joe but ITA about his personality and brightness. I keep hoping there's some secret genius hidden under there...that he has been riding along and holding out, waiting for his chance to run, but I doubt it.

I think he and Kendra will do fine.  I believe he wants a quiet life and, once married, he'll keep some distance between his family and the show.  Some quick $$s for courting and wedding episodes, maybe some baby coverage, but otherwise remote.

It was like that was the first time we've seen genuine emotion from him, he actually seemed happy. Even when they were going on about how close he and Jinger are in the All About Jinger episode he was just so flat. 

I really doubt he will try to leave the cult/compound but agree that these two will probably want a quiet life.

Joe of all the siblings has surprisingly been the most aggressive with pursuing extra "education" and training/licenses. He's the first to actually attempt college, yeah it was Clown and he only lasted a year (semester?) but maybe there is some hope.

[justodd]

On 3/11/2017 at 4:51 AM, Lurky said:

I always laugh imagining my twilight years doing singalongs to the Madchester/dance music of the 90s/00s.  Having a nice group sing to "Ebenezer Goode" and "Firestarter" and so on.  Some Smiths and some KLF....

This makes me think of the scene in the Pulp documentary where they have the Residents of a retirement community sing "Help the Aged." 

[amendgitan]

On 3/9/2017 at 9:25 AM, season of life said:

Exactly! I think JB must really like controlling everyone's finances/futures this way because if it were me, I would be completely exhausted at the thought of having to provide for all those couples.

Don't the kids provide for themselves though through the show? 

[SassyPants]

54 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

Don't the kids provide for themselves though through the show? 

No one knows who gets a paycheck from the show.