Another Duggar Courtship: Joseph and Kendra

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Loretta Lynn became a grandmother at 27. One of my favorite mind blowing facts. 

That's not actually true. In Coal Miner's Daughter she claimed to have been married at 13 and a grandmother at 29 (though she looked suspiciously grown up in her wedding photo). She wrote another book years later ("Still Woman Enough") where she admitted that she had been pressured into lying about her age when she started her career. I think she actually married at 16, had her first baby at 17, and wasn't a grandmother until she was about 32. Still pretty young.

[Million Children For Jesus]

Fundies with comfortable finances tend to age well. All that modest dressing adds up to less sun damage/premature aging as adults, and of course, they don't smoke or drink alcohol. Plus, they stay trim, wear makeup and lighten their hair. Weight gain and dark hair tends to be aging. Mrs. Caldwell is trim, wears makeup and lightens her hair. The fundies with less financial means don't seem to age as well, maybe from the financial stress, poor diet, and lack of disposable income for hair and makeup. 

[justmy2cents]

35 minutes ago, CreationMuseumCurator said:

On one of the recent episodes, Ben and Jessa had a TH about it. He said something about visiting, and she piped up that "They said no visitors for 6 months."

And then Ben said 'whatever'.  It was kinda funny.  I don't think Benessa has any intention of giving them 6 months.

34 minutes ago, VVV said:

But I laugh when younger parents sneer at older moms like me. They should be so lucky

I like your entire post but this is the thing that stood out to me, when people think there is only one right way to do things.  My parents had us young.  My mom was 38 when I, the youngest graduated high school and left home.  They started traveling a lot more and enjoying their 40's and beyond.  I had my daughter at 43 which is the age my grandma was when I was born.  I did all my traveling and going out before that.  We all lived our lives, just did it in a different order. I don't look down on people who did it differently. 

[ViolaSebastian]

3 hours ago, Kelsey said:

No. They are criticizing Pastor Caldwell and others for not being anti-gay enough. According to these people, Paster Caldwell teaches that gay people are born gay and must remain celibate. Pastor Caldwell is not supportive of gays.

I didn't think so; thank you for the clarification. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

That's not actually true. In Coal Miner's Daughter she claimed to have been married at 13 and a grandmother at 29 (though she looked suspiciously grown up in her wedding photo). She wrote another book years later ("Still Woman Enough") where she admitted that she had been pressured into lying about her age when she started her career. I think she actually married at 16, had her first baby at 17, and wasn't a grandmother until she was about 32. Still pretty young.

I was actually going to add a "*" to my comment but thought it would ruin the flow.  I still thought she claimed to be a grandmother at 27, but did read recently that there was proof she had subtracted from her age, though I thought it was two years? So she'd married at 15, which is still crazy young, but not quite unusual in her area during her time, and that would make her 29 as a grandmother? 

I thought she still denied lying about her age, but it seems there's pretty strong proof she has fudged her birthdate.

So thanks Loretta, for taking away one of my favorite mind blowing facts from me.  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

What about the whole tow truck business? I haven't been keeping up on duggar business ventures but weren't JD and Joe doing some of that? 

JD and Joe seem to be hard workers and seem to pick up on things fairly quickly so I honestly think those two will probably always be able to find a job outside of the show.

My opinion of JD has always been of the quiet farm boys I know and grew up with. They really don't mind being alone and are pretty happy to work a lot. They aren't outgoing like Josh or Josiah. The typical farmboys in my family and friends were pretty content on their own and didn't marry until close to 30 or at all! I assume JD will eventually get married but it will probably have to be a girl that practically falls into his lap. 

I see Joe similar to JD but less awkward. So when I saw that picture of him and Kendra walking and talking together, I thought there must be something there. He's not outgoing like Josiah. If it was Josiah I would think nothing of it because Josiah is friends with everyone it seems. But if Joe is talking to a pretty girl and not in a big group, it makes me notice. If pictures come out like that with JD talking to a pretty fundie girl semi alone (not a huge fundie group), I'll think something might be up. 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

You do realize that the human lifespan, especially in developed countries, is much longer now than in the past, right?  And that just because something is "historically the norm" doesn't mean it is optimum today, or ever desirable?

If you are bothered that many of us believe that two marginally educated, extremely sheltered, young people with little or no real life job skills, uncertain employment, and very little experience with either critical thinking, or the opposite sex, are not the best prospects for marriage, FJ may not be the right place for you.

Thank you for this.

I'm willing to listen to the younger marriage and younger parenthood argument, as in early twenties, but it's getting a bit ridiculous when being nonjudgmental means saying  "It's totes awesome to have a baby as a teenager in high school, y'all!"

Obviously surprises happen and people have to roll with them, but to act as if having a baby as a literal, legal child with no money or job skills is some ideal is ridiculous. Frankly, it's borderline delusional.

Also, things that are "historically the norm": women being property, children dying by age five, slavery, and shitting in a hole.

[singsingsing]

One of my biggest pet peeves is this idea that it used to not be normal for women over like 35 to have children. Uh, what? What do you think happened before birth control, if women continued to be sexually active and retained their fertility till 40+ (which many of them did)? "Older mothers" have always been common. They only seem like a new thing now. Because birth control gained widespread acceptance and use during the first half of the 20th century, it became the norm to limit family size BUT at the same time (esp. just after WWII) average marriage age went down. So you had people generally marrying in their early 20s, having 2-3 kids, then stopping. That's an anomaly. From a broad perspective, it's never really been the norm for women to marry young, have children young, stop having children completely while living another 50+ years.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm a few pages late, but I don't see how JD is a fundy catch. These girls have to be mega shallow if they're told to wait for their prince charming. A friend who watched the show occasionally always referred to JD as "the basement dweller" or "future serial killer."

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

One of my biggest pet peeves is this idea that it used to not be normal for women over like 35 to have children. Uh, what? What do you think happened before birth control, if women continued to be sexually active and retained their fertility till 40+ (which many of them did)? "Older mothers" have always been common. They only seem like a new thing now. Because birth control gained widespread acceptance and use during the first half of the 20th century, it became the norm to limit family size BUT at the same time (esp. just after WWII) average marriage age went down. So you had people generally marrying in their early 20s, having 2-3 kids, then stopping. That's an anomaly. From a broad perspective, it's never really been the norm or women to marry young, have children young, stop having children completely while living another 50+ years.

Yep! My maternal grandmother popped out kids from 1945-1971, she had 14 children. She was 41 when she had her last child. It was very normal for women to have a lot of children for a very long time. Good Catholics who didn't have access to birth control had big families. It's completely normal to have older mothers, always has been except when death in childbirth/childbed fever killed. 

[grandmadugger]

9 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

According to http://duggarbatesfan.tumblr.com/post/158168160884/joseph-duggars-girlfriend Kendra was born on 8/11/98 which means she'll be turning 19 this summer.  At least they waited to 'get to know eachother' til after she turned 18.  

 

 

If mom took the traditional amount of time to graduate high school she was 6 months pregnant when she graduated.  I'm 37, I graduated in May of 1998.  That's mind blowing to me.

5 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm a few pages late, but I don't see how JD is a fundy catch. These girls have to be mega shallow if they're told to wait for their prince charming. A friend who watched the show occasionally always referred to JD as "the basement dweller" or "future serial killer."

 

Minus the fact that he's fundy and too young for me JD is actually a catch to me.  He's got a twisted sense of humor from what we've been told.  He enjoys working with his hands, he doesn't seem dumb (he got his commercial pilot's license after all), and I could see him being good living on a piece of property with a few animals and running a construction business.  Sounds like a good life to me.

[Jilli]

34 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Yep! My maternal grandmother popped out kids from 1945-1971, she had 14 children. She was 41 when she had her last child. It was very normal for women to have a lot of children for a very long time. Good Catholics who didn't have access to birth control had big families. It's completely normal to have older mothers, always has been except when death in childbirth/childbed fever killed. 

Yep, my great aunt and great uncle got divorced(as Catholics I'm not sure how this is justified. I wasn't raised Catholic) because she wanted to stop at 10. He had 2 more with his second wife.

[Satan'sFortress]

On 3/8/2017 at 2:39 PM, Carm_88 said:

Who is Josh? In the world of the Duggars, he doesn't exist.  No, seriously that was satan building a fortress in his heart. 

Oooh--that's me!  I sweartogod I'd almost forgotten what my user name meant! 

[Snarkle Motion]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

One of my biggest pet peeves is this idea that it used to not be normal for women over like 35 to have children. Uh, what? What do you think happened before birth control, if women continued to be sexually active and retained their fertility till 40+ (which many of them did)? "Older mothers" have always been common. They only seem like a new thing now. Because birth control gained widespread acceptance and use during the first half of the 20th century, it became the norm to limit family size BUT at the same time (esp. just after WWII) average marriage age went down. So you had people generally marrying in their early 20s, having 2-3 kids, then stopping. That's an anomaly. From a broad perspective, it's never really been the norm for women to marry young, have children young, stop having children completely while living another 50+ years.

And it's never been normal for  women to overwhelmingly survive childbirth. 

[nickelodeon]

51 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

Minus the fact that he's fundy and too young for me JD is actually a catch to me.  He's got a twisted sense of humor from what we've been told.  He enjoys working with his hands, he doesn't seem dumb (he got his commercial pilot's license after all), and I could see him being good living on a piece of property with a few animals and running a construction business.  Sounds like a good life to me.

I hear ya, but boyfriend also cannot or will not 1) cook 2) clean 3) do laundry, so BYE to him.

[AlternativeVoice]

9 hours ago, HermioneSparrow said:

Ha! Me too, imagine Carlin tellin' everybody like it is. Although maybe loud Carlin would have been crushed at the Duggars.

 

Watch this courtship get to the altar pretty fast, Jim Boob is not gonna let this one fail like Josiah and Marjorie. I feel sorry for Kendra but at least she didn't end up with a Joshie (or so it seems).

No one puts Carlin in a corner! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My husband became a father for the first time a few months after his best friend (1year older) became a grandpa for the first time. 

Yes my husband is an older father but guess what! He was easily able to support us all while I stay at home with the kids. Yet my husband's best friend was just an immature kid when he had his first child and barely saw her. His parents (her grandparents) raised her mostly. 

So yeah I will take my old man husband as a father to an immature kid as a father for my kids any day. 

[GreenTea]

2 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

I hear ya, but boyfriend also cannot or will not 1) cook 2) clean 3) do laundry, so BYE to him.

Or have an intelligent conversation about the big topics and issues facing today's world. He might be an okay guy. We really don't know, BUT he needs to wake up and question things. Think more. Simply the lack of diversity in his current situation and reluctance to hearing different view points should make him want to know more.

Dumb and pretty doesn't cut it for me. But hey, that seems to be what his brother wanted in Kendra. Uneducated more then dumb, but still he's not shooting for "free thinker" when making his wish list.   

 

[Dandruff]

I don't think JD is a catch, but he's also not a Josh.  He strikes me as a gun-totin' good ol' boy, responsible and hard-working, but capable of mischief (like trashing cars at fundie weddings).  Doubt he's romantic.  Do believe he's loyal.  I picture him happy with a woman who's willing to kill, skin, clean, and cook their dinner.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Thank you for this.

I'm willing to listen to the younger marriage and younger parenthood argument, as in early twenties, but it's getting a bit ridiculous when being nonjudgmental means saying  "It's totes awesome to have a baby as a teenager in high school, y'all!"

Obviously surprises happen and people have to roll with them, but to act as if having a baby as a literal, legal child with no money or job skills is some ideal is ridiculous. Frankly, it's borderline delusional.

Also, things that are "historically the norm": women being property, children dying by age five, slavery, and shitting in a hole.

Also, young marriage may be common in other parts of the world...because there are no other options. In Yemen, there was a case of an eight-year-old girl trying to get a divorce; she was forced into an utterly ridiculous and damaging marriage because of poverty and a lack of education (and a very, very bad geopolitical situation making everything even worse). And what happens to those girls (and boys)? They don't go to school, they die or become disabled from the complications associated from having babies before their bodies are fully developed, and the vicious cycle of poverty only continues, dooming their children to the same fate.

The Duggars have enough money (and white skin) that they don't suffer the true consequences of these social ills.

That being said, if you're young but you've gained a lot of life experience and you feel ready for marriage, go for it. But we shouldn't act like medieval practices that only endure because there's no better option are admirable or virtuous.

[singsingsing]

45 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

And it's never been normal for  women to overwhelmingly survive childbirth. 

It's actually always been normal for most women to survive childbirth, but yeah, not nearly as overwhelmingly as it is today.

[Carm_88]

59 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

And it's never been normal for  women to overwhelmingly survive childbirth. 

It's become a lot more normal since we started using doctors (who sanitize, have knowledge, training, and am actual medical degree.) and midwives (with knowledge, training, and a degree) instead of what would be "lay midwives." *Cough Duggars Cough* Since we have gained knowledge of the human body and infection, it's definitely more common to survive childbirth. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

On March 8, 2017 at 11:20 AM, socalrules said:

 

I wonder if Jim Bob has picked out their first home. Do they get Jessa's house and she move into something bigger since she has started filling her quiver?

IIRC from one of the very first specials, Jim Bob said they bought 20 acres so that each of the kids would have the option and space to build a home there, if that's what they wanted to do. I never heard anything about that again. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob decides that Joe decided to buy a house kit and build a home on the grounds of TTH. 

On March 8, 2017 at 11:47 AM, singsingsing said:

Anna will suddenly show up with a new baby in September though the pregnancy was never announced (seriously, I'm torn between expecting them to announce a pregnancy and frame it as a redemption narrative, or to just announce the baby once it's born),

My guess is May and a redemption narrative. 

[colors_outside15]

On 3/8/2017 at 11:26 AM, Carm_88 said:

Two weddings this year? One summer and one fall/winter? 

Seems almost like a given since that seems likely with the Bates too. I swear these families size each other up like, "Oh, you have a special friend?" well I'm, "Entering a new season of life (... once she turns 18)." I think I could make accurate predictions by just knowing what one of these special fucked up snowflakes of a families were doing

[Carm_88]

11 minutes ago, colors_outside15 said:

Seems almost like a given since that seems likely with the Bates too. I swear these families size each other up like, "Oh, you have a special friend?" well I'm, "Entering a new season of life (... once she turns 18)." I think I could make accurate predictions by just knowing what one of these special fucked up snowflakes of a families were doing

The Bates only have Tori courting. So I doubt they will have two weddings this year.