Fore!!! Jinger courts the Jock

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

Ok I know we are well past the Harry Potter fanfic references, but I feel as though I can't let the convo go without mentioning the whole Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness craziness. Lots of violence, sex between random folks, racism, rape etc. it's insane.

The craziest part of that whole thing is the author is Thanfiction aka Amy Player aka Andrew Blake aka Jordan Wood (Elijah Wood's cousin) aka somehow a living vessel for different characters from supernatural and other shows. Like totally insane stuff happening there. Please fall down that rabbit hole. 

[twinmama]

6 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

There are people who honestly believe that you cannot be a "moral" person without a belief in God.

As an atheist, this is fascinating to me. For me, its the other way around. I am a good person and don't go out stealing, raping, and killing because it is not right. Not because I'm afraid of some god or afterlife. If you need the threat of eternal damnation to make you a good human being, you are not a good human being.

8 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

I read that EL James, who only has her contract because of being a fanfiction author, hates that people write fanfic of her books.  Hypocrite much?

I will snark on EL James for being a terrible writer, but never for going with it when people wanted to make her rich for her crap. If I could shit out a story with no talent for it and people were throwing money in my face, I'd take it!!! Art be damned! lol

14 minutes ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

Ok I know we are well past the Harry Potter fanfic references, but I feel as though I can't let the convo go without mentioning the whole Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness craziness. Lots of violence, sex between random folks, racism, rape etc. it's insane.

The craziest part of that whole thing is the author is Thanfiction aka Amy Player aka Andrew Blake aka Jordan Wood (Elijah Wood's cousin) aka somehow a living vessel for different characters from supernatural and other shows. Like totally insane stuff happening there. Please fall down that rabbit hole. 

I have less than no idea what any of this is referencing but it sounds fascinating. 

Our thread drift is the best part of FJ! It's like falling down a Wikipedia hole, I started looking up World War 1 and now I'm reading about aliens.

[catlady]

12 minutes ago, twinmama said:

As an atheist, this is fascinating to me. For me, its the other way around. I am a good person and don't go out stealing, raping, and killing because it is not right. Not because I'm afraid of some god or afterlife. If you need the threat of eternal damnation to make you a good human being, you are not a good human being.

 

Thank you a thousand times for saying this; it's been my exact same train of thought since before I stopped going to church.  I had a youth group leader in maybe 8th grade who said "God keeps me on the straight and narrow."  I was too introverted to say anything out loud, but for a longtime afterwards I kept thinking "so without God, you'd be a criminal, or an asshole?"

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

There's a lot of info about this particular fandom. You can find info about Andy Blake (and his many alias') by googling his name. There was a very detailed live journal about it and a book published. 

Heres a link with basic info: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Thanfiction

[season of life]

54 minutes ago, catlady said:

 

Thank you a thousand times for saying this; it's been my exact same train of thought since before I stopped going to church.  I had a youth group leader in maybe 8th grade who said "God keeps me on the straight and narrow."  I was too introverted to say anything out loud, but for a longtime afterwards I kept thinking "so without God, you'd be a criminal, or an asshole?"

I once read on a website, someone had commented that his/her brother-in-law openly and proudly said that if he knew God wasn't real, he'd rape women.

Here's to hoping these types of people drop off the face of the Earth.

[defraudedbychipendales]

58 minutes ago, catlady said:

 

Thank you a thousand times for saying this; it's been my exact same train of thought since before I stopped going to church.  I had a youth group leader in maybe 8th grade who said "God keeps me on the straight and narrow."  I was too introverted to say anything out loud, but for a longtime afterwards I kept thinking "so without God, you'd be a criminal, or an asshole?"

Exactly how I have always thought. That's why these people were so fascinating at first (before I knew the complete craziness of them). I do not understand blind faith. 

I did not do well in Catholic school.

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

There's a lot of info about this particular fandom. You can find info about Andy Blake (and his many alias') by googling his name. There was a very detailed live journal about it and a book published. 

Heres a link with basic info: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Thanfiction

I think I remember this. Didn't his Neville fic end up getting super rapey at one point? I'm reading through his fanlore and I'm having a hard time telling what is real and what is bullshit. I'm assuming it's all bullshit. 

[snarkysuki1724]

33 minutes ago, defraudedbychipendales said:

Exactly how I have always thought. That's why these people were so fascinating at first (before I knew the complete craziness of them). I do not understand blind faith. 

I did not do well in Catholic school.

I consider myself a survivor of 12 years of Catholic school.  The worst was the all-girls high school. The nuns and lay teachers were cruel.  I am still, all these years later, happy that I made it through and relieved that it's over.  I refused to attend my graduation, and instead went and picked up my diploma at the school office after graduation. It was THAT bad. I will still occasionally have a bad dream that I'm back at that school. 

  I'm so happy that my kids attended great public schools with other kids of all different faiths, ethnicities, gender identities, etc., and that for the most part they have had teachers that treated them with kindness. 

My elementary school was actually an ok experience compared to high school, and the nuns were kind to me, mostly because I was a girl, and quiet and well-behaved.  The boys got beat up by the nuns on a daily basis. 

[atheistjd]

Re: someone's suggestion that the wedding thread title being "Goooooal" may I humbly suggest that the (inevitable?) Jinger pregnancy/bump watch thread be titled "He shoots... He scores!"

Re: all the fanfic, I have never read any fanfic whatsoever but feel like I am about to fall into a rabbit hole..

[Ugh!]

On June 29, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Letgo said:

Ding Ding Ding! I think we have a winner! Thanks to all of you for your answers. I think the fact that Jeremy is a male is one I had overlooked.  A woman with a past, although forgiven, would be seen as soiled and damaged goods. Not acceptable for one of JB's sons. But Jeremy being a pastor means he has seen the error of his ways. He can even be held up as an example of the evils of college and the world for the Duggarlings. And I'm sure Palimpsest is right about women flirting and tempting men. It had to one of those who led Jeremy astray.

I'm not convinced they vet the husbands so thoroughly - particularly for the daughters who were subjected to their brother's crimes. My opinion is that on the surface he's fine-pastor, pastor's kid, talks the talk, and that's good enough- but the real issue is they consider their daughters impure and damaged. Maybe they'll have higher standards for Jana's future husband and for daughters who weren't Josh's victims. Jmho. 

[nst]

12 minutes ago, Ugh! said:

I'm not convinced they vet the husbands so thoroughly - particularly for the daughters who were subjected to their brother's crimes. My opinion is that on the surface he's fine-pastor, pastor's kid, talks the talk, and that's good enough- but the real issue is they consider their daughters impure and damaged. Maybe they'll have higher standards for Jana's future husband and for daughters who weren't Josh's victims. Jmho. 

Jeremy is being worshiped by Ben and Jessa therefore he is being vetted by them I am assuming and then JB and Jinger was a sinner in Ben's eyes and Jeremy is  / was a sinner than they fit.  They can moon over God together. 

Jessa is much to blame for bringing him in  than JB accepting him. Clearly he over took Jessa's emotions for Jinger to get on with it and just accepted him.  Again insane

 

[Lillymuffin]

4 hours ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

Ok I know we are well past the Harry Potter fanfic references, but I feel as though I can't let the convo go without mentioning the whole Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness craziness. Lots of violence, sex between random folks, racism, rape etc. it's insane.

The craziest part of that whole thing is the author is Thanfiction aka Amy Player aka Andrew Blake aka Jordan Wood (Elijah Wood's cousin) aka somehow a living vessel for different characters from supernatural and other shows. Like totally insane stuff happening there. Please fall down that rabbit hole. 

Ok, I know we aren't supposed to do short answers, so I've fleshed this out, but I just have to ask, "say what now?"

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Ugh! said:

I'm not convinced they vet the husbands so thoroughly - particularly for the daughters who were subjected to their brother's crimes. My opinion is that on the surface he's fine-pastor, pastor's kid, talks the talk, and that's good enough- but the real issue is they consider their daughters impure and damaged. Maybe they'll have higher standards for Jana's future husband and for daughters who weren't Josh's victims. Jmho. 

Disgusting as I find the Duggars' attitude towards the molestations, I really don't think they are minimizing the crime for Josh and maximizing it for his victims.  Others in ATI may see Josh's victims as "impure and damaged" but the Duggars don't -- for the same reason that they hid Josh's crime and still deny its seriousness: it would make JB and Michelle look bad.

The Duggars are all about appearances.  They are not about accepting responsibility or blame.  Their instinct is to minimize the flaws in their own family and emphasize how they are better than others.  In their narrative of the molestations, all that happened was that a teenager who was too curious about girls behaved inappropriately.  The girls didn't even know that anything had happened, it happened while they were asleep.  The youngest victims claim not to remember anything. They are not "impure and damaged" because nothing really happened.  

This isn't just a story they tell the public.  This is the story that they are emotionally invested in.  JB 's self-image is bound up in minimizing the seriousness of the molestation.  He is not thinking, "Well, just any man will do for this impure daughter of mine."  That would mean admitting to himself that he failed to keep his family pure.  The whole molestation thing has been minimized not to protect Josh as much as to protect Jim Bob's self-image and reputation.

IMHO, the real reason that JB is not going to put prospective suitors who look okay on the surface through too much investigation is that he isn't thinking about compatible personalities.  He is thinking about whether the prospective spouse would fit in well with the family.  JB thinks of everything in terms of how it will look on the surface because he is kind of a superficial person. 

Remember also that the pool of suitable suitors is probably small.   Part of the reason may be a result of the molestation. Not only are the Duggar girls regarded as "less than perfect" but the family is also.  Add that anyone who marries a Duggar has to deal with JB, Michelle, TLC, the scrutiny of the gossip magazines, etc. .  How many reasonably good-looking, godly young men are likely to be interested in joining the Duggar dog-and-pony show?

[Tiny Bubbles]

Just have to quickly jump in to add my 2 cents to the conversation about not needing religion to be a moral person. 

I totally agree. I go to church regularly, but it's never been about keeping me "moral" or "on the straight and narrow". I enjoy the spiritual aspect - feeling connected to something much larger than myself, and I'm guessing from our conversations and study groups that the majority of my church community feels the same. 

Obviously I have chosen a pretty conventional way of doing this. Most of my friends and relatives find the same sense of connectedness through Yoga or Nature or Wicca or whatever. It really doesn't matter how one connects or thinks about the concept,  and the idea that my group is more "moral" than any of these because of where we are on Sunday mornings is laughable.  Of course we are aren't. 

But I do honestly think that, whatever route we take, there is a lot of value in opening ourselves up and exploring spiritual things. 

Rant over 

[lizzybee]

10 hours ago, season of life said:

I once read on a website, someone had commented that his/her brother-in-law openly and proudly said that if he knew God wasn't real, he'd rape women.

Here's to hoping these types of people drop off the face of the Earth.

This is an interesting concept though. That there are awful people who only manage (usually only temporarily, right?) to be less awful because of a fear of hellfire. I mean this is nothing new, when you think of all the pedophilia coming from youth pastors, pastors stealing money from the church, pastors being like the Mars Hill guy, and Josh Duggar just to name a very few in a slew of examples. BUT the idea that someone could say "yeah, I'd rape women if it weren't for God," just kind of makes my brain explode. How do you build a filter for that when "purposing to guard your heart" and "find a man who puts Jesus first." Is there a box on the fundie boyfriend application checklist that says "if not for God, I'd [insert horrible thing here]?" 

[Ungodly Grandma]

26 minutes ago, Tiny Bubbles said:

 

But I do honestly think that, whatever route we take, there is a lot of value in opening ourselves up and exploring spiritual things. 

Rant over 

I agree, there are many ways to be spiritual, but it should not be ignored. 

And seeing your user name, I thought you might like this.

[Melissa1977]

11 hours ago, season of life said:

I once read on a website, someone had commented that his/her brother-in-law openly and proudly said that if he knew God wasn't real, he'd rape women.

Here's to hoping these types of people drop off the face of the Earth.

Well, If he was a catholic, he'd could do it. Every sin is forgiven by confession and prayers. Or at least is what I was told in my religion classes at school.

[Tiny Bubbles]

9 minutes ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

I agree, there are many ways to be spiritual, but it should not be ignored. 

And seeing your user name, I thought you might like this.

Love it!

[RabbitKM]

16 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Why, yes. At least I do.. When I was a child, it was always the "poor souls in Purgatory".. I guess because they hadn't made it to Heaven yet.. My SIL the nun also does it. Her prayer list is miles long.

This is interesting.  I was born and raised cradle Catholic, Catholic school my whole life and everything.  I was taught about Purgatory but I guess I am lost when it comes to "offering things up" to the souls in Purgatory.  I had heard that when you're facing a challenge, you can offer it up to Jesus, but I've never heard the Purgatory one.

[Ungodly Grandma]

7 minutes ago, RabbitKM said:

This is interesting.  I was born and raised cradle Catholic, Catholic school my whole life and everything.  I was taught about Purgatory but I guess I am lost when it comes to "offering things up" to the souls in Purgatory.  I had heard that when you're facing a challenge, you can offer it up to Jesus, but I've never heard the Purgatory one.

It's in the fine print! LOL, I think it was a bigger thing years ago.

[bashfulpixie]

34 minutes ago, RabbitKM said:

This is interesting.  I was born and raised cradle Catholic, Catholic school my whole life and everything.  I was taught about Purgatory but I guess I am lost when it comes to "offering things up" to the souls in Purgatory.  I had heard that when you're facing a challenge, you can offer it up to Jesus, but I've never heard the Purgatory one.

Glad I'm not the only cradle Catholic that was a bit confused on that one.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

10 hours ago, Lillymuffin said:

Ok, I know we aren't supposed to do short answers, so I've fleshed this out, but I just have to ask, "say what now?"

Ya I'm sorry I was so vague. I was trying to remember the whole saga from memory and that clearly didn't work out too well. Number 2 on the list linked below gives a really great summary of all of the events. Here's a quote from the article:

"Andrew Blake is an accused scam artist and alleged cult-leader who's been unleashing his intense, often expensive spiritual guidance on unsuspecting fans for over a decade. Andrew Blake was born Amy Player. In the heyday of Lord of the Ringsfandom, this charismatic fan was the center of a tiny group of friends who lived together as a dysfunctional mini-cult formed around Blake's belief that he could contact and connect with spirits from alternate realities. He was a multiple, or plural--someone who believes they can channel alternate fictional personas, a bit like the practice of recalling past lives."

http://www.dailydot.com/society/fandomwank-10-best-drama-stories-anniversary/

[LadyCrow1313]

11 hours ago, atheistjd said:

Re: someone's suggestion that the wedding thread title being "Goooooal" may I humbly suggest that the (inevitable?) Jinger pregnancy/bump watch thread be titled "He shoots... He scores!"

Re: all the fanfic, I have never read any fanfic whatsoever but feel like I am about to fall into a rabbit hole..

We Are The Fanfic. You Will Be Assimilated. 

[OyToTheVey]

On 6/30/2016 at 9:56 AM, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I always thought that Jana's "holding out for a man with dirt under his nails" comment, accompanied by her telling glances at Jessa, was code word for "I'm not going to settle for the first useless doofus that knocks on my dad's door just because I want out/I want sex/I'm smug." I think that, unlike Jessa's teenage crush, she might be playing her hand smartly - all speculations of course, purely based on the little snippets they let us see on TV.

I know there's an age difference there but I kinda thought that "man with dirt under his nails" could be someone like Nathan Bates. He's easy on the eyes, and actually works. Seems like a nice enough guy.

[JaChelle Sugar]

<--wants Hermione Grainger and a rocketship

My favorite kind of fanfic is those kinkmeme prompt posts. No need to wade through actually reading shitty fic's, just the overview of a story idea. Sometimes actual stories that get my interest. Inception has over twenty 50ish-page threads of prompts, plus over 100 pages of links to filled prompts.Arthur/Eames OTP 4 lyfe!

*eta: how do I alter the size of my typeface?