Fore!!! Jinger courts the Jock

[seasonsoflife]

On 7/2/2016 at 9:10 PM, Analytica49 said:

Apologies for what may be a change of specific topic, but I want to say something about the photos of Jinger and JV side-hugging.

I've never understood the bizarre distinction the Duggars and their ilk make between side hugs and holding hands. Side hugs not allowed until after courtship starts, but are permissible even before engagement takes place. But holding hands is only a perk of being engaged.

Why??

In the photo of Jinger and JV side-hugging, it sure does look to me as if a LOT of their bodies are in contact. More power to them! I think physical closeness is extremely important to any romantic relationship.

But surely that kind of side-hugging is potentially way more defrauding than merely holding hands, where much less of the two people's bodies are in contact.

(Yes, I remember Anna and Smuggar's hand sex. But imo, holding hands BECAME hand sex for them just because it was defined as something V E R Y special that you could only do once you were engaged. In other words, whatever is forbidden acquires much more sexual power.)

But Jin and Jer's side-hugs still look pretty darn cozy to me.

You are trying to find logic where there isn't any. Nothing this family does makes any sense. You are supposed to protect your heart by protecting your vagina (while actually having meaningful conversations about faith and life and family...but obviously to these people thoughts and feelings can be shared as long as you don't share bodily fluids. That is where your worth is).

Sorry....ranting, I am particularly annoyed by fundies today. 

[ClaraOswin]

3 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Oh man. That's not hazing. That's just being goofy! At least, that was what I thought when I saw it.

I went to fundie lite youth group from high school into college and there are TONS of dudes with pics like this. Just being goofy and silly. None of us were partiers. And sometimes it was even AT youth group that these pics were taken. We made up games and sometimes you get hyper and slap happy and a pop song comes on that's everyone's guilty pleasure and it would just get whacky.

Hell, they would even go skinny dipping. All boys, of course. Even the most horrible of all the fundie-lite dudes I knew who didn't kiss a girl until he got married at 26 (and called girls whores who kissed before they got married, for real) would go skinny dipping and put on skirts and do hula dances and shit. 

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the photo. I don't think it's scandalous or bad or anything at all really. Just a goofy photo. Other than being shirtless, I don't even think the Duggars would be bothered much by it.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 7/2/2016 at 2:59 PM, EmCatlyn said:

I have to agree that going to college does not guarantee that Jinger's suitor is going to be in any way enlightened or progressive.  Like you, I have considerable experience of students who refuse to have their minds "stretched" in directions they find disturbing or unpleasant.  To pick an easy example, students with creationist views will generally go through college without allowing their minds to touch on the possibility that evolution theory may have something useful to say. 

However, even the narrowminded might learn from experiences. Jeremy or anyone who has been to college and travelled a little may have figured out  things about life and key everyday values which a Duggar might not know.  Education is always of use.

I often wondered whether the Duggars learned/retained anything of the different cultures and perspectives they may ae encountered in their lives, with all the the mission travels (=praycations) they have done. Not that I have much hope, recalling with horror some idiotic comments made by Boob while abroad. But at the very least, in the privacy of their own hearts, doesn't any of them wonder what the heck they are doing, seeing that there is a world our there beyond the cult, full of other people with different thoughts/beliefs?

On 7/3/2016 at 11:37 AM, Analytica49 said:

So, if I were, for example, a middle-aged man, or an elderly woman, in his congregation, why would I trust him as a religious leader? What exactly does HE have to teach someone with twenty, thirty, or forty years' more life experience than he has? What makes him a religious expert? Why would anyone consider him to be especially godly?

Same (laughable) "authority" that made Bin and Blessa fit to give marriage advice to people a month or so after they were married. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

3 minutes ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I often wondered whether the Duggars learned/retained anything of the different cultures and perspectives they may have encountered in their lives, with all the the mission travels (=praycations) they have done. 

snipped and my bolding

Well, Anna remembered that she liked falafels in Israel when she was trying to decide what kind of food-truck food to get in Washington D.C.  That isn't the big, serious stuff we would all hope someone would learn from world travels, but at least it is something, I guess.

[Whipple]

On 7/3/2016 at 6:04 AM, Exjw2015deed said:

Goodness there are so many threads on this I'm trying to catch up. I just read his police report from intouch. It's funny how often when Duggar girls list characteristics for a potential husband they all say:

1. Godly man or man that loves the lord.

2. Someone who is slow to anger.

Reading that report he seemed quick to anger. I always say alcohol projects out our true selves and deepest insecurities. If I ever saw a man get that angry, even if he found Jesus and sworn to never hit or get belligerent again, I still wouldn't trust him. Especially, if they have 11 kids, which has to be insanely stressful and tiring. I would like to see how he is under pressure, or records of him playing soccer and losing his temper. 

Since the only approved suitors for Duggar females are preacher wannabes and pastors, I've gotten to wondering... Sometimes religious fanaticism is related to emerging (and later on full blown) mental illness. By marrying young before the psychotic features of bipolar disorder, depression, and schizophrenia have a chance to take hold and by not really knowing your spouse before marrying due to bizarre courtship rituals, I would say that if they continue on this trend, at least one of the Duggar girls somewhere on down the line is in for a world of trouble. I like Jana's idea of wanting a more grounded guy with dirt under his nails.

I am not calling mental illness in Ben or in Jeremy although I am not sure about Derrick at this point. I would just say that Boob's plan of choosing only the most godly of men has the potential to really implode.

[CoveredInBees]

Hahaha........... that photo  

That's just fab, a proper standard pissing about type college photo.

The only issue really (as we all know) is that fundies are more dangerous when they have the ability to blend into heathen society with the rest of us.

If nothing else, he does seem (despite everything going against him) to have a fun side. That's no bad thing for Jinger.

[Ungodly Grandma]

On 7/1/2016 at 9:41 PM, louisa05 said:

At Catholic school, I had classmates who were Latino, Vietnamese (10% of my graduating class--some of whom were "boat people"),  and African-American. I had classmates who were exchange students from Europe and Latin America and teachers from Mexico and Germany. 

And I had top notch academics and a supportive environment free from bullying and where every student was treated equally by teachers and staff. 

Don't paint anything with one brush. 

 

I also had a top notch education from the nuns, and no, or little bs on the side.  

I went to Catholic school from 1961 to 1973, and especially in high school, the teachers were well educated (not always the case then in parochial school) and liberal. They taught me the basics of other religions, too, and taught them with respect.

[Ungodly Grandma]

On 7/2/2016 at 9:15 AM, VelociRapture said:

@jozinaThank you so much for your sympathy and for letting us know about the apparent change in stance by the Church. It doesn't erase what they once told people, but it is absolutely a step in the right direction. And I think it could bring a great deal of comfort to many families dealing with this sort of loss - which is really what any religion should be focused on rather than shaming people for something out of their control.

Rules rules rules. 

My dearest friend took hew own life six years ago last month. Although I haven't considered myself Catholic since my teens, I was haunted by the idea of her never resting in peace. It was cruel, like so many Church teachings. And unnecessary, except to frighten and control people. The pain someone must be in to take their own life! Makes me so sad to think about these poor people. 

[JenniferJuniper]

10 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

That's exactly what I thought when I saw the photo. I don't think it's scandalous or bad or anything at all really. Just a goofy photo. Other than being shirtless, I don't even think the Duggars would be bothered much by it.

Yes, it's just a silly photo.  To normal people.

But given the Duggars' total obsession with jinder roles and the fact that this fellow was wearing feminine accessories, joking or otherwise, I'm sure it's very embarrassing for them.  2012 was a very short while ago.

As far as we know she isn't engaged to this guy.  If there's more out there a quietly broken courtship wouldn't surprise me.  It's hardly headline news anyway.  And did TLC ever confirm Counting On would continue on?

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

57 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes, it's just a silly photo.  To normal people.

But given the Duggars' total obsession with jinder roles and the fact that this fellow was wearing feminine accessories, joking or otherwise, I'm sure it's very embarrassing for them.  2012 was a very short while ago.

As far as we know she isn't engaged to this guy.  If there's more out there a quietly broken courtship wouldn't surprise me.  It's hardly headline news anyway.  And did TLC ever confirm Counting On would continue on?

I think Boob and Mullet are not embarrassed by anything by now - they "walked through" Josh 1.0 and 2.0, the Josiah-Marjorie broken courtship, the backlash of media and fans, etc.

I think that they sold to money&fame a long time ago - TV as a ministry for Jeebus my rear!

[nst]

i get the impression Ma and Pa Duggar never thought ahead to when the kids would be adults and things would AUTOMATICALLY change 

they are changing a bit 

[HarleyQuinn]

LOL that photo. I can picture J'chelle and Boob's "QUICK GET THE BIBLE!" faces.  

I wouldn't bat an eyelash at that any other day, but coming from hypocritical fundies, this is gold. 

[Four is Enough]

Hell, if I'd have had a pic like this of my boyfriend when we were in college, it'd be front and center in the scrapbook. "Four getting pretty at the Chi Omega Party!"

No harm, no foul, no "ginder roles"

[Fundie Bunny]

That pic ha brought me an unpleasant memory. A picture of my uncle and my father when they were about 20, both in dresses, putting deodorant on each other while hugging my grandmother. I could never ask for context. But, hey, a family pic is still a family pic, nevermind how terrible

[marmalade]

5 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes, it's just a silly photo.  To normal people.

But given the Duggars' total obsession with jinder roles and the fact that this fellow was wearing feminine accessories, joking or otherwise, I'm sure it's very embarrassing for them.  2012 was a very short while ago.

As far as we know she isn't engaged to this guy.  If there's more out there a quietly broken courtship wouldn't surprise me.  It's hardly headline news anyway.  And did TLC ever confirm Counting On would continue on?
 

Yes, they confirmed another season when the courtship was announced. Suspect timing to save the show. Thanks, KJB! This also ensures that he and Possum Head get a lot more airtime. I can't wait to see how they get Josh back on.
 

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Yes, they confirmed another season when the courtship was announced. Suspect timing to save the show. Thanks, KJB! This also ensures that he and Possum Head get a lot more airtime. I can't wait to see how they get Josh back on

There will be an hour long special, outside of the regular shit show, where Josh and Anna will "tell all" to a TLC talking head.  Josh will detail how he "fell" from grace.  How it started small, with the horrors of the ebil world - victoria's secret catalogs, those darned teevee shows that he saw in hotels - how it progressed from looking at innocent things to long nights alone in hotel rooms for work.

He was away from his family, from his church.  He was anonymous, just another penis is a world of heathens who dont worship its power.  The whore wimmenz working nights at restaurants, at check in desks, sitting in business centers not tending to their headships or spawn... He fell.  He had no compass pulling him North, because Anna was home doing her godly duty, tending to the chillins.

He's so sorry.  Its been so horrible.  He could have lost everything, but Jesus... he comforted him.  He told him it was OK, just go and pray.  He went to prayer camp and centered himself.  He realizes now that the world isnt safe, there are too many temptations in this fallen world.  Thats why god wants good menfolk to keep their wimmenz safe, at home, with their children, away from other penises.  

He's dedicated himself to being with family, with HIS family, to honoring his vows, because Jesus... for the love of jesus... to be with jesus... he will turn his life around.

 

the ratings will be strong enough to put him back on season 3 - return of the duggar spawn (the spawn spawns).  The world is fallen.

[HairToday]

I find it super funny (and misleading, manipulative and scary) that Jeremy Vuolo describes high school and college escapades as living foolishly and puts it into a Biblical context of falling victim to lust, selfishness and pride.  He even states his arrest was for failing to obey a police officer during a night out.  Ummm... the police report states he was intoxicated, acted belligerent and shouted obscenities - when his friend was being investigated for involvement in an assault.  That was before the officers tried to calm him down.  Then he grabbed an officer by the arm with force.  He was found to have a .13 blood alcohol level and had to be released to a sober friend.

Does anyone really believe JB or Michelle would let Jinger court an unemployed handyman with a background like that?  Noooo... I doubt they even knew the full extent of his colorful years - which is certainly way more interesting than was summed up in that police report.  So let's count:  We have his admitted failings of lust, selfishness and pride PLUS the added alcoholism public intoxication and excessive consumption of alcohol, aggression toward an officer, foul language and disrespectful behavior - added to the arrest record and time in jail.

So now, this caveman courts a 22 year-old Duggar whom he finds "modest, meek and humble."  Does that scare anyone else?  I don't care what he claims about turning his life around.  He was raised in a Christian home and has that amount of bad behavior - and then shades it as a period in his life where he lived foolishly?!  I think he's still manipulative by being deceitful and is still acting on pride by courting a sheltered young lady who is from a reality show family.

I also think we know what he is capable of and his behavior will probably be worse with his spouse at some low point in his future than it ever was in college during his glory days.  If I was a controlling fundie parent, I wouldn't let my daughter date him.  But they need a hook for another season.  They probably would have been better-off with Tebow.

[karen77]

32 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

There will be an hour long special, outside of the regular shit show, where Josh and Anna will "tell all" to a TLC talking head.  Josh will detail how he "fell" from grace.  How it started small, with the horrors of the ebil world - victoria's secret catalogs, those darned teevee shows that he saw in hotels - how it progressed from looking at innocent things to long nights alone in hotel rooms for work.

He was away from his family, from his church.  He was anonymous, just another penis is a world of heathens who dont worship its power.  The whore wimmenz working nights at restaurants, at check in desks, sitting in business centers not tending to their headships or spawn... He fell.  He had no compass pulling him North, because Anna was home doing her godly duty, tending to the chillins.

He's so sorry.  Its been so horrible.  He could have lost everything, but Jesus... he comforted him.  He told him it was OK, just go and pray.  He went to prayer camp and centered himself.  He realizes now that the world isnt safe, there are too many temptations in this fallen world.  Thats why god wants good menfolk to keep their wimmenz safe, at home, with their children, away from other penises.  

He's dedicated himself to being with family, with HIS family, to honoring his vows, because Jesus... for the love of jesus... to be with jesus... he will turn his life around.

 

the ratings will be strong enough to put him back on season 3 - return of the duggar spawn (the spawn spawns).  The world is fallen.

And sadly, it won't touch on the real issue that drove us away...molestation. All focused on the cheating, which who the fuck cares about that, so many people cheat or get cheated on. That isn't the issue with him, you know? As usual, they are focused on the wrong issue.

[lizzybee]

20 minutes ago, HairToday said:

So now, this caveman courts a 22 year-old Duggar whom he finds "modest, meek and humble."  Does that scare anyone else? 

Yes. Here's why it makes me a little nervous. I've seen Jana in person, and she is a tiny tiny thing. When Jinger stands next to Jana in a picture she looks even smaller. He's looking for a humble, meek, modest woman who also happens to be a very small person? Hopefully drunk aggression doesn't not forebode other types of aggression.

If the Duggars are to be believed, they don't even raise their voices at each other, and her dad makes a point to always be calm. I had a very, very calm father myself. DH has a bit of temper (not violent, and never directed at me) and even the slightest expression of anger is scary to me as a consequence. Even if he doesn't do anything to Jinger, if he loses his temper she might be compelled to try anything to calm him down and then that in turn could turn into emotional manipulation. I'm wildly speculating at this point I'll own. I want to be wrong about this and hope I am. 

Just you mentioning his size reminded me of how I gasped at how petite Jana* was when I saw her (television makes the girls look really average). Anna, in comparison, was very average sized and the only other female traveling with them at the time. 

I'll say again, I am hoping he's really a nice Christian guy who went through a rough spot in college where he got arrested and turned his life around, etc. and that Jinger's going to be blissfully happy with him.

He's a big guy though and she is a very small person. 

*I know Jinger is taller than Jana. Height isn't what I'm referring to. 

[Funwithfundies]

18 minutes ago, HairToday said:

I find it super funny (and misleading, manipulative and scary) that Jeremy Vuolo describes high school and college escapades as living foolishly and puts it into a Biblical context of falling victim to lust, selfishness and pride.  He even states his arrest was for failing to obey a police officer during a night out.  Ummm... the police report states he was intoxicated, acted belligerent and shouted obscenities - when his friend was being investigated for involvement in an assault.  That was before the officers tried to calm him down.  Then he grabbed an officer by the arm with force.  He was found to have a .13 blood alcohol level and had to be released to a sober friend.

Does anyone really believe JB or Michelle would let Jinger court an unemployed handyman with a background like that?  Noooo... I doubt they even knew the full extent of his colorful years - which is certainly way more interesting than was summed up in that police report.  So let's count:  We have his admitted failings of lust, selfishness and pride PLUS the added alcoholism, aggressition toward an officer, foul language and disrespectful behavior - added to the arrest record and time in jail.

So now, this caveman courts a 22 year-old Duggar whom he finds "modest, meek and humble."  Does that scare anyone else?  I don't care what he claims about turning his life around.  He was raised in a Christian home and has that amount of bad behavior - and then shades it as a period in his life where he lived foolishly?!  I think he's still manipulative by being deceitful and is still acting on pride by courting a sheltered young lady who is from a reality show family.

I also think we know what he is capable of and his behavior will probably be worse with his spouse at some low point in his future than it ever was in college during his glory days.  If I was a controlling fundie parent, I wouldn't let my daughter date him.  But they need a hook for another season.  They probably would have been better-off with Tebow.

Re bolded:  Maybe I missed it, but did he say he was an alcoholic?  If not, I don't see where a night of drunken stupidity = alcoholism.

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, HairToday said:

I also think we know what he is capable of and his behavior will probably be worse with his spouse at some low point in his future than it ever was in college during his glory days.  If I was a controlling fundie parent, I wouldn't let my daughter date him.  But they need a hook for another season.  They probably would have been better-off with Tebow.

No we don't.

For goodness sake, you sound almost as sheltered as a Duggar.  Bad language, a bit of sex, alcohol use, and a night in the drunk tank doesn't turn all athletes into OJ Simpson or career criminals - nor does it mean he is an alcoholic!  He grabbed an officer's arm and swore when he was as drunk as a skunk, got arrested, and paid a fine.  Many college kids behave incredibly stupidly.  Some of them even get arrested and go on to lead blameless lives.

I think Jeremy just *might* be able to turn his life around and Jinger will be OK.

As far as controlling Fundie parents go - they are probably far more focused on his repentance and future career as a pastor than on his "criminal" past - such as it is. 

[HairToday]

6 minutes ago, Funwithfundies said:

Re bolded:  Maybe I missed it, but did he say he was an alcoholic?  If not, I don't see where a night of drunken stupidity = alcoholism.

Call it whatever you like.  I didn't say he was an alcoholic.  But since you're such a wordsmith, I'll edit my original post to read public intoxication and excessive consumption of alcohol. 

The point is he is extremely misleading when he wraps that kind of behavior in Biblical categories.  Everyone has been selfish and prideful at times; not everyone grabs a police officer and gets drunk & belligerent in public or spends a night in jail.

[MargaretElliott]

Drifting...

I actually found a quiz online once, "is your Harry Potter OC a Mary-Sue?" I read the quiz and decided to write a fanfic that embraced all of those tropes, instead of avoiding them. So it's absolutely terrible. But it was extremely fun to write, trying to shove every awful cliche into the story I could. Still floating out there on the internet somewhere...

As for Jeremy, I don't really know what to think. I don't know him. All of the horrible sins that he's repented for just seem like average college shenanigans to me. I doubt everyone here waited until they were 21 to drink the devil's grape juice. The police officer bit is concerning, but as an isolated incident (I think?), we can't know if he really has anger issues or if he was just shwastyfaced.

I don't know about you guys, but I see Jinger repeating the patterns of her sisters. Cute courtship, approved by JB, engaged, hand sex, married, babies. Toe the party line. Maybe toss in a few spunky lines to prove she's still human, but otherwise, I don't think Jinger will be free. Not much more I can say that hasn't already been said and analyzed ten times over already.

[EmCatlyn]

40 minutes ago, HairToday said:

I find it super funny (and misleading, manipulative and scary) that Jeremy Vuolo describes high school and college escapades as living foolishly and puts it into a Biblical context of falling victim to lust, selfishness and pride.  He even states his arrest was for failing to obey a police officer during a night out.  Ummm... the police report states he was intoxicated, acted belligerent and shouted obscenities - when his friend was being investigated for involvement in an assault.  That was before the officers tried to calm him down.  Then he grabbed an officer by the arm with force.  He was found to have a .13 blood alcohol level and had to be released to a sober friend.

Does anyone really believe JB or Michelle would let Jinger court an unemployed handyman with a background like that?  Noooo... I doubt they even knew the full extent of his colorful years - which is certainly way more interesting than was summed up in that police report.  So let's count:  We have his admitted failings of lust, selfishness and pride PLUS the added alcoholism, aggressition toward an officer, foul language and disrespectful behavior - added to the arrest record and time in jail.

So now, this caveman courts a 22 year-old Duggar whom he finds "modest, meek and humble."  Does that scare anyone else?  I don't care what he claims about turning his life around.  He was raised in a Christian home and has that amount of bad behavior - and then shades it as a period in his life where he lived foolishly?!  I think he's still manipulative by being deceitful and is still acting on pride by courting a sheltered young lady who is from a reality show family.

I also think we know what he is capable of and his behavior will probably be worse with his spouse at some low point in his future than it ever was in college during his glory days.  If I was a controlling fundie parent, I wouldn't let my daughter date him.  But they need a hook for another season.  They probably would have been better-off with Tebow.

I don't think Tebow was really interested . . . 

As for Jeremy's "alcoholism," where did we hear he was an alcoholic?  He drank too much while partying, but that doesn't mean he is an alcoholic.  A lot of young people drink heavily at a few parties then stop as they get older/wiser.

As I read the police report, he grabbed the officer's arm to get his attention.  He was shooting his mouth off, but he was not violent, just drunk and obnoxious. If he had grabbed a regular person's arm, it would have meant nothing.

I am not trying to "defend" Jeremy.  I totally agree that there is something suspect about his "conversion" and "ministry." And I agree that the Duggars are impressed with his sports-celebrity -turned-godly-preacher role.  I further agree that the Duggars needed a courtship and that since Jana seems to have set herself aside from the race, it was Jinger's turn.  (I am guessing that she likes the idea.  The guy is not unattractive and has a certain status. He is friends with Jessa's husband, and it is probable that Jinger is eager to be a "married woman" like Jessa.)

Be that as it may, Jeremy is probably no worse than any other possible suitor. He may not be the prince charming that would really free Jinger, but what are the odds that any fully sane man would court a Duggar girl?

 

[Palimpsest]

47 minutes ago, HairToday said:

Call it whatever you like.  I didn't say he was an alcoholic.  But since you're such a wordsmith, I'll edit my original post to read public intoxication and excessive consumption of alcohol. 

The point is he is extremely misleading when he wraps that kind of behavior in Biblical categories.  Everyone has been selfish and prideful at times; not everyone grabs a police officer and gets drunk & belligerent in public or spends a night in jail.

You did say alcoholism and editing your post now won't help that.

To the bolded: how else is he supposed to present his past behavior especially now he's rediscovered his Fundie-type Christianity and is some kind of pastor?  After all, isn't Christ's salvation supposed to be all about repentance and the forgiveness of sins?  Even terrible sins?  Why doesn't that work for Jeremy - and how do you know he didn't disclose all this dreadfully shocking behavior to Jim Bob and Jinger prior to courtship?

Good grief, now I sound like I'm defending Jeremy. 

BTW, to keep this vaguely on topic - these are some of the Gothard/IBLP guidelines that Jim Bob is undoubtedly following in judging the state of Jeremy's heart and his suitability as a future husband for Jinger. http://iblp.org/questions/what-are-some-signs-genuine-repentance