Jessa, Ben and Spurgeon Part Seven

[ophelia]

14 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

$100 says if she divorces him before the kid is school aged, she'll start saying he is going by his middle name (Elliot) which is what I suspect she actually wanted to call him before she was overruled by her headship saying Jesus was calling him to name the poor thing Spurgeon. 

I haven't watched any of the Counting On episodes, so my question might appear to be a bit dumb, but did they ever state that Ben overruled Jessa and named the baby Spurgeon? I like the name Elliot. It would have been a perfectly fine and normal name for the little guy.

[Dandruff]

28 minutes ago, ophelia said:

I haven't watched any of the Counting On episodes, so my question might appear to be a bit dumb, but did they ever state that Ben overruled Jessa and named the baby Spurgeon? I like the name Elliot. It would have been a perfectly fine and normal name for the little guy.

No.  If anything, they tried to make it appear that Spurgeon was a mutual decision.  But I doubt that Jessa had even heard of C. Spurgeon before courting with Ben.  I also believe that, since she's so close with Jinger (of the troublesome spelling), Jessa would especially have wanted a mainstream and easy name for her kid.  Like Elliot.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

1 hour ago, ophelia said:

I haven't watched any of the Counting On episodes, so my question might appear to be a bit dumb, but did they ever state that Ben overruled Jessa and named the baby Spurgeon? I like the name Elliot. It would have been a perfectly fine and normal name for the little guy.

It has never been outwardly stated, but it is written all over Jessa's face that she can't stand the name. She barely hides her cringing every time she says it.

[theinvisiblegirl]

Ben's firing up a retweet storm over on his Twitter today after the attack in Orlando. This is his only original tweet.

 

[FJismyheadship]

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, FJismyheadship said:

I don't remember exactly what it was that made me think she was living with him... But I know now that they never were. 

I think I may have just assumed because we knew she didn't live with her parents and all of her social media posts were with him at the time. Until recently, she had never given any indication of living alone either so I guess my logical guess was she lived with him.

Ok! Thanks so much for the clarification! 

[Jinder Roles]

1 hour ago, FJismyheadship said:

Jessa and Ben both posted bible verses or quotes (which is an appropriate response to this tragedy) and that they're 'praying'.  Please tell me if I'm being too critical, but something about their posts just rub me the wrong way. 

These are the same people that have actively gone out and tried to deny LBGTQ people their rights (protesting marriage equality) and whose mother compared transgender people to pedophiles.  Who support legislation that denies LGBTQ people their rights. Who support and have been a part of  organizations that say despicable things about gay people.  They are part of a very conservative movement - and support people - that are actively homophobic. 

These are the same people that protest any kind of gun reform after massacres like these because of their 'rights'. They say this while trying to take away others rights. 

What happened in Orlando today isn't just terrorism, it is a hate crime. This happened on Pride weekend at a popular gay bar. This was planned and directed at the LGBTQ+ community. This is one of the ways in which hate and discrimination manifests itself. 

This is not to say that Christians can't and do not mourn. Or that Jessa and Ben don't feel compassion for the victims and their families. 

But how are you going to be homophobic and transphobic one minute and then 'grieve with your neighbours' the next? This isn't just personal/religious difference. The Duggars have actively participated in discrimination against the LGBTQ community. I wonder if they realize that their views about the victims "lifestyles" probably align more with shooter/terrorist. Or that this isn't a "Muslim problem". That Christians can, and historically have been, capable of violence against queer people. 

Maybe I'm being too harsh and I know the situation is nuanced, but this has been bothering me all day and I wanted to get it off my chest.

Anyways, my thoughts and prayers go out to the 100+ victims and R.I.P to those that lost their lives today. You are loved. The price of being unapologetically brave enough to be yourself should never be death. 

[nst]

5 hours ago, ophelia said:

I haven't watched any of the Counting On episodes, so my question might appear to be a bit dumb, but did they ever state that Ben overruled Jessa and named the baby Spurgeon? I like the name Elliot. It would have been a perfectly fine and normal name for the little guy.

i think the fact that in every scene if you look back while she was pregnant - the camera kept pointing to books by Charles Spurgeon all over the house.  Maybe that was a clue 

[BabyBottlePop]

1 hour ago, nst said:

i think the fact that in every scene if you look back while she was pregnant - the camera kept pointing to books by Charles Spurgeon all over the house.  Maybe that was a clue 

Does that mean TLC knew ahead of time, or just that there were so many C. Spurgeon books they couldn't not film them?

[anotherone]

20 hours ago, artdecades said:

After all we have seen with the Duggars and their scandals, do you really think divorce is in their cards? I just don't think it will happen, let alone within the next few years.

I agree.  $100 says she will want to divorce him, $0 says she will actually do it.

[Casserole]

7 hours ago, ophelia said:

I haven't watched any of the Counting On episodes, so my question might appear to be a bit dumb, but did they ever state that Ben overruled Jessa and named the baby Spurgeon? I like the name Elliot. It would have been a perfectly fine and normal name for the little guy.

 

No, but even their taped TLC birth announcement, she wouldn't say the name. She stopped and let Ben say it. Up until recently, she never called him by name. While pregnant she nicknamed him #BabyQuincy and that's what she referred to him as for the first months of his life. 

Oddly enough, I just went through her instagram to verify and all of his pictures now have #SpurgeonElliotSeewald on them, but I swear at the time of posting she didn't have his name, just #BabyQuincy or #BabySeewald. They must have added it later because it was definitely discussed on FJ how she wouldn't use his name. 

[anotherone]

2 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Jessa and Ben both posted bible verses or quotes (which is an appropriate response to this tragedy) and that they're 'praying'.  Please tell me if I'm being too critical, but something about their posts just rub me the wrong way. 

 

I know you are looking at it as "half-empty," like it's a pretty weak statement after all they have said against the LGBQ community.  But I also sort of saw it as half-full because at least they didn't take the opportunity to make a cheap shot like the Texas Lt. Gov who Bible quoted something about people reaping what they sow.  Many took that as they deserved what happened to them. 

If J and B weren't actually sincere, at least they were being respectful.

[Jinder Roles]

10 minutes ago, anotherone said:

I know you are looking at it as "half-empty," like it's a pretty weak statement after all they have said against the LGBQ community.  But I also sort of saw it as half-full because at least they didn't take the opportunity to make a cheap shot like the Texas Lt. Gov who Bible quoted something about people reaping what they sow.  Many took that as they deserved what happened to them. 

If J and B weren't actually sincere, at least they were being respectful.

Oh no, I'm not saying they're not sincere and definitely they are being respectful. It's appreciated. I just, ugh I'm having trouble putting it into words... I just wonder if they realize that they are somewhat complicit in the homophobia that exists. The rhetoric they - and those who they support - use is not so far removed from that of the shooter. (I'm not saying they are complicit in terrorism/murder)

I think that today's massacre is one of the ways in which discrimination and hate against LGBTQ people manifests itself.  Things that the Duggars do (Michellle's transphobic robo-call, Josh working at FRC) are other manifestations (and not as extreme/explicitly violent). There's an intersection here. Duggar clan, tea party members, Donald Trump etc. need to realize that they're not just spouting off their 'personal convictions'. Their dogma is hurtful and oppressive to others. I just think it's a little ironic that they don't realize it. 

I don't think Ben and Jessa would ever want something like this to happen or are trying to justify it. I'm sure they have sympathy and are mourning. However, a lot of the things they push for are damaging. 

Meh, I guess I'm glass half-empty. I've been told I'm quite the cynic. 

 

 

[2manyKidzzz]

So far their hate has been "virtual". Now they have experienced the horrible and grim reality of 50 individuals killled and 53 wounded some critical. Maybe their hate doesn't actually go that far. I hope it does not. 

[MakeItSo]

call me a cynic but I viewed their post in support of the victims of this recent tragedy in a way that....as if they're using it to their advantage. Look how supportive we are of all humans that God has created. Like the poster above I, too, cannot put it into words exactly but it did not come across as purely and genuinely as it may have even been meant, just from knowing their past history. 

[nst]

2 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Does that mean TLC knew ahead of time, or just that there were so many C. Spurgeon books they couldn't not film them?

I doubt TLC knew - but i think maybe it is was curious to see so many Charles Spurgeon books   in a kids room 

[foreign fundie]

I think they did they best they could do in their response. While being often ignorant and indiscrete in their opinions and utterances about gays, I do not think they would support violence against them. I hope this terrible attack will help them realise their common humanity and in a way teach them true compassion for people with very different convictions. You don't have to agree in order to respect and love. And in a way they now clearly have a common enemy. An attack on Christians could be next.

[anotherone]

2 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Oh no, I'm not saying they're not sincere and definitely they are being respectful. It's appreciated. I just, ugh I'm having trouble putting it into words... I just wonder if they realize that they are somewhat complicit in the homophobia that exists. The rhetoric they - and those who they support - use is not so far removed from that of the shooter. (I'm not saying they are complicit in terrorism/murder)

Yeah, that is true.  Maybe I should have said quarter full.  It's just that they set the bar so darn low...

Wish they could see that they, although not violent, are adding a bit of fuel to that fire.

[HeadshipRegent]

About the post - idk, I think something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Maybe the reason they're sympathetic this time is because the shooter was Muslim. Or maybe it's just me being cynical. 

 

edit for the riffles

[Carol]

On 6/8/2016 at 6:57 AM, ksgranola1 said:

I have to say, they recently has a segment on the Bates about Kelly homeschooling them. She said she took early childhood development in college & something else, I forget. She said their goal was to give the kids a solid education so they could pursue whatever their interest lies, go to college, work w/Gil, or explore other options for work. She was shown teaching one of the older girls the periodic tables. This is no chickenshit education she's giving these kids. And as they grow, they are branching out. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. There's also a lot more parental involvement in everyday child care & recreation.

Aren't those what Michelle posted next to the refrigerator?

[Bad Wolf]

@Carol. you just made me snort my tea. That was funny.

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Oh no, I'm not saying they're not sincere and definitely they are being respectful. It's appreciated. I just, ugh I'm having trouble putting it into words... I just wonder if they realize that they are somewhat complicit in the homophobia that exists. The rhetoric they - and those who they support - use is not so far removed from that of the shooter. (I'm not saying they are complicit in terrorism/murder)

I think that today's massacre is one of the ways in which discrimination and hate against LGBTQ people manifests itself.  Things that the Duggars do (Michellle's transphobic robo-call, Josh working at FRC) are other manifestations (and not as extreme/explicitly violent). There's an intersection here. Duggar clan, tea party members, Donald Trump etc. need to realize that they're not just spouting off their 'personal convictions'. Their dogma is hurtful and oppressive to others. I just think it's a little ironic that they don't realize it. 

I don't think Ben and Jessa would ever want something like this to happen or are trying to justify it. I'm sure they have sympathy and are mourning. However, a lot of the things they push for are damaging. 

Meh, I guess I'm glass half-empty. I've been told I'm quite the cynic. 

 

I 100% agree with you. You can't spread hate against gay people and then pretend like it has nothing to do with hate crimes against gay people. I'm not saying Jessa or any of the Duggars would ever physically harm a gay person. But their rhetoric hurts them too, and just fuels the hate against gay people. It's a very slippery slope. The PP calls himself a Christian (tm) and doesn't he think gay people (or is it just gay men?) deserve to be killed?

Other example: You can't protest abortion clinics and verbally assault women seeking abortion services (or other medical services at those clinics) as well as the people working there, and then pretend like you have nothing to do with domestic terror attacks on abortion clinics. You're adding fuel to the fire that is people's hate. Just because you're not the one physically harming or killing other people does not mean you aren't in part responsible.

[HeadshipRegent]

My friend shared a post today and it took a lot of blanket training™ to not send it to Jessa  

"I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you still think LGBTQ people using the bathroom are a threat to public safety.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you think owning assault weapons is acceptable while gay men donating blood is unacceptable.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you think Islam is the problem when three of our presidential candidates showed support for a Christian pastor who advocates for the execution of queer people.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you care more about your right to own a weapon than my LGBTQ brothers' and sisters' right to live.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you were elected to represent the people of this country and instead represent the NRA, or voted to allow terrorists on the no fly list access to guns.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers if you think this is somehow an isolated incident, as if this just happened to be at a gay club on Latin night featuring trans performers during Pride, as if all those things aren't treated with contempt, fear, animus, and resentment on a daily basis.

I don't want your thoughts and prayers at all, because thoughts and prayers have done nothing to prevent these tragedies from happening again and again.

I want your activism and your voice and your votes. I want you to channel your outrage into meaningful action. I want you to stand up to homophobia and transphobia whenever it occurs, however small the slight, because microaggressions pave the way for bloodshed. I want you to vote from conscience, not from fear. 

Because fear can't win. I am terrorized, and I am going to try my damnedest now to be gayer than ever, to be relentlessly queer. Because fear can't win, and I don't want your thoughts and prayers."

[EyeQueue]

11 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

But how are you going to be homophobic and transphobic one minute and then 'grieve with your neighbours' the next? This isn't just personal/religious difference. The Duggars have actively participated in discrimination against the LGBTQ community. I wonder if they realize that their views about the victims "lifestyles" probably align more with shooter/terrorist. Or that this isn't a "Muslim problem". That Christians can, and historically have been, capable of violence against queer people. 

I don't know. The subtext (maybe) appears to be: *Now* is the time to grieve with them, but these dirty sinners will get their righteous and just desserts later on, from the Almighty Hand of God."

I suppose it's too much to hope that they're actually learning a little bit of sheer human kindness and aren't being so judgmental.

[nastyhobbitses]

36 minutes ago, EyeQueue said:

I don't know. The subtext (maybe) appears to be: *Now* is the time to grieve with them, but these dirty sinners will get their righteous and just desserts later on, from the Almighty Hand of God."

I suppose it's too much to hope that they're actually learning a little bit of sheer human kindness and aren't being so judgmental.

I'd guess that the subtext is "we're already on enough thin ice and the TLC PR person told us that we had to post something nice".