Jessa, Ben and Spurgeon Part Seven

[ksgranola1]

Just suppose, and just given the shere number of them, one of (say all the kidults were married)the girls' spouse suddenly falls ill, critically, or has a crippling injury causing them to be widowed. What are they supposed to do? Has this never occurred to JB & M while they were popping out this brood?

Suppose one of the girls, say Jill just for example, marries a slothful man who's "just not a job person." And she's got a mountain of kids. These ppl have never looked past the ends of their noses.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I feel for Ben and Jessa too. To me their relationship is Textbook Case #1 in why you don't marry someone just because you're physically/sexually attracted to them. But how were they supposed to know that? Jessa at least wasn't even allowed to be friends with guys, let alone date. And sexual attraction can be strong and make even smart people do some dumb things. In their social circle, quick courtships and engagements get you applause and deep conversations are discouraged.

So the lesson most of us learned in our late teenage years, with nothing on the line, they have to learn by being with someone they don't like every day for the rest of their lives. (Except I don't think it will last much longer. Ben wasn't raised in the Kool-Aid and his misery is truly palpable. Dude is going to make a break for it.)

Yep. And the difference is that most of us are not forced to marry someone to have sex with them. I know when I was aged 18-24 like they were, I was free to have sex, talk to guys without my parents listening in and go on unchaperoned dates....and I didn't end up marrying any of those guys. I'm glad I was able to get my sexual attraction to a couple of certain men in my past out of my system without doing something as utterly stupid as marrying them because we would be divorced by now if that I did. 

(Not saying that people who get married/divorced are stupid of course. I'm saying I would have been stupid to marry these particular guys at that point in my life....or any point in my life with one of them!). 

[BabyBottlePop]

Yes! I had a high school relationship that I thought was love, but was just really intense sexual attraction. It was my first relationship so I'm glad I didn't marry him either because it took a long time for me to realize that it wasn't a connection built on anything serious.

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Jessa, to me, doesn't seem impressed with Benye and can't keep acting forever; it's not her nature.  Now that the sexual tension has worn off, there's only so much more fake laughing she can do at his lame jokes.  As always, I'm hoping they aren't going to adopt.   

I don't think she's ever going to forgive him for naming their kid Spurgeon, and he's slowly figuring that out.  Someone should buy him one of those "It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time" t-shirts that I've seen on kindergarten-age kids.

Slightly OT...but I wonder if there will ever be another Duggar descendant named Joshua.  I suspect not.

[JesusCampSongs]

6 hours ago, amandaaries said:

But the problem is really with the courtship situation.  They never got to know much about each other, not truly.  I think Jessa was looking for someone easy to control, and Ben had unrealistic expectations about who is fundie wife-to-be-was, and just how much she would submit.  I have a feeling, though, that Jessa will only be able to endure so much stupidity from Benye.  He is just not as clever as he thinks he is, and while Jessa has her own limitations, she seems savvier than he is.  There have been some moments, though, where she seems to have expressed herself a bit more clearly, and with a bit more distaste than is healthy for a relationship.  Did anyone else read that study about "disaster relationships" v. "master relationships"? ( http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/happily-ever-after/372573/ ) Researchers noted how individuals made bids for attention, and the responses indicated the health and potential longevity of the relationship. Interest in the subject was positive; ignoring the bid for attention or showing contempt were signing that the relationship was not destined for the long-term.  Jessa, to me, doesn't seem impressed with Benye and can't keep acting forever; it's not her nature.  Now that the sexual tension has worn off, there's only so much more fake laughing she can do at his lame jokes.  As always, I'm hoping they aren't going to adopt.   

I kept meaning to bring that research up here, and I'm glad you mentioned it. I only watch clips of the episodes, but based on what I've seen on them and the recaps here, it sounds like Ben and Jessa are very passive-aggressively disrespectful and contemptuous of one another-- a road that leads to divorce or misery. 

Their dynamic reminds me a lot of the one between my former brother-in-law and my sister. He eventually got sick of it and bailed. 

[BabyBottlePop]

I feel bad saying this because it is very shady and really not fair, but I can't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at how Ben and Jessa are doing because their smugness pre marriage, "Like, what we're doing is better than everyone else cause we courted." I want to say now, "What did you expect?"

[2manyKidzzz]

2 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I feel bad saying this because it is very shady and really not fair, but I can't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at how Ben and Jessa are doing because their smugness pre marriage, "Like, what we're doing is better than everyone else cause we courted." I want to say now, "What did you expect?"

 

 

So true and this could be said of Joshley and poor Anna. And in the future, any of those Duglets. It is not a "real" situation for them, but a contrived thing, a manufactured situation. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

1 hour ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I feel bad saying this because it is very shady and really not fair, but I can't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at how Ben and Jessa are doing because their smugness pre marriage, "Like, what we're doing is better than everyone else cause we courted." I want to say now, "What did you expect?"

I went through this same realisation with a guy when I was 19. I'm so glad I was able to realise that before I did something stupid like marrying him. 

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I don't think she's ever going to forgive him for naming their kid Spurgeon, and he's slowly figuring that out.  Someone should buy him one of those "It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time" t-shirts that I've seen on kindergarten-age kids.

Slightly OT...but I wonder if there will ever be another Duggar descendant named Joshua.  I suspect not.

$100 says if she divorces him before the kid is school aged, she'll start saying he is going by his middle name (Elliot) which is what I suspect she actually wanted to call him before she was overruled by her headship saying Jesus was calling him to name the poor thing Spurgeon. 

[VelociRapture]

6 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I thought Ben was raised in the Name of Gothard; home school & all. No? I am a little confused by his underage sister living w/a guy & wearing a bikini & no one does anything about it.

Didn't either of the boys have a choice about when they were going to have their first kid? Did JB tell them this was mandatory? Seems like neither of them got a choice. JB wants them to "recreate themselves" in what he views to be the perfect image & NONE of these kids can see thru that?

Boggles the mind.

To answer your questions -

As far as I know, the Seewalds were not an IBLP family. I believe they were involved with Vision Forum, but I'm not completely certain about that. They are homeschooled, but I'm not sure what sort of curriculum they use or how good it may be.

His sister, Jessica isn't underage. I believe she turned 19 this year. As such, there's not much anyone could do about her wearing bikinis or living with her boyfriend. I'm not sure how strict they are in regards to dating, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were more relaxed than the Duggars.

I'm assuming the two married men had some choice in whether to have children - they could have faked a headache during their wives' fertile window or something. It's not like JB stood at the foot of the bed and forced them to have some sweet fellowshipping until the pregnancy test came back positive. No one "made them" have unprotected sex with their wives. 

Hope that helps a bit!

[nst]

14 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

To answer your questions -

 

I'm assuming the two married men had some choice in whether to have children - they could have faked a headache during their wives' fertile window or something. It's not like JB stood at the foot of the bed and forced them to have some sweet fellowshipping until the pregnancy test came back positive. No one "made them" have unprotected sex with their wives. 

 

well Jill got pregnant on her honeymoon didn't she ? - plus the fact that she was very vocal that they would do nothing to prevent.  

and Jessa and Ben - I think they timed it because of the show - and it just surprised Jessa and she ran with it - whereas Ben just died inside. 

[Bad Wolf]

Ben did get an AA degree from an accredited community college. More than any Duggar accomplished. If he sticks with Moody bible college, I don't know what his prospects might be.

I don't think Ben would have had the discipline to abstain in Jessa's fertile time. Maybe now he understands how babies are made and can refrain from making another one right away.

[artdecades]

2 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I went through this same realisation with a guy when I was 19. I'm so glad I was able to realise that before I did something stupid like marrying him. 

$100 says if she divorces him before the kid is school aged, she'll start saying he is going by his middle name (Elliot) which is what I suspect she actually wanted to call him before she was overruled by her headship saying Jesus was calling him to name the poor thing Spurgeon. 

After all we have seen with the Duggars and their scandals, do you really think divorce is in their cards? I just don't think it will happen, let alone within the next few years.

[Shadoewolf]

Is it possible Ben's lil sermon was a project or a final for a class at Moody? It would certainly give his instructors something to critique.

[RoseWilder]

1 hour ago, artdecades said:

After all we have seen with the Duggars and their scandals, do you really think divorce is in their cards? I just don't think it will happen, let alone within the next few years.

I think a few divorces are definitely going to happen. That family is a house of cards. They've managed to guilt Anna into staying, but they're not going to be able to keep everyone in the fold. I see a future filled with dysfunction, divorce and scandal for the Duggars. 

[JillyO]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

To answer your questions -

As far as I know, the Seewalds were not an IBLP family. I believe they were involved with Vision Forum, but I'm not completely certain about that. They are homeschooled, but I'm not sure what sort of curriculum they use or how good it may be.

His sister, Jessica isn't underage. I believe she turned 19 this year. As such, there's not much anyone could do about her wearing bikinis or living with her boyfriend. I'm not sure how strict they are in regards to dating, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were more relaxed than the Duggars.

I'm assuming the two married men had some choice in whether to have children - they could have faked a headache during their wives' fertile window or something. It's not like JB stood at the foot of the bed and forced them to have some sweet fellowshipping until the pregnancy test came back positive. No one "made them" have unprotected sex with their wives. 

Hope that helps a bit!

I agree with what you're saying. In addition, I'm wondering if you, @ksgranola1, could tell us how you know Jessica is living with her boyfriend? I know she's not living with her parents, but this is the first I'm hearing about her living with her boyfriend. That would genuinely surprise me as that's usually a big no-no with even regular very conservative Christians, let alone fundies like the Seewalds. Though she is of course an adult and no one can make her do anything. Either way, it's a shame she's only changing the superficial things, not her hateful beliefs.

[foreign fundie]

5 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

 

I don't think Ben would have had the discipline to abstain in Jessa's fertile time. Maybe now he understands how babies are made and can refrain from making another one right away.

While NPF is a good way to reduce the number of babies over the course of a marriage, I don't think it really works for a young, fertile, virgin couple in their first three months of marriage. NPF and honeymoon do not go together. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

5 hours ago, artdecades said:

After all we have seen with the Duggars and their scandals, do you really think divorce is in their cards? I just don't think it will happen, let alone within the next few years.

If Bin decides he is leaving, is there anything that can really be done to stop him? Guinn has always looked very skeptical of this whole Duggar circus and like she is internally screaming at everything and I don't see her 'forcing' her adult son to stay in a miserable marriage.  

There is absolutely no way J'Chelle and Boob would want it, but if Bin decides he wants out and his parents are supportive, I can't really think of anything Kim Jong Boob could do to stop it. 

[foreign fundie]

48 minutes ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

If Bin decides he is leaving, is there anything that can really be done to stop him? Guinn has always looked very skeptical of this whole Duggar circus and like she is internally screaming at everything and I don't see her 'forcing' her adult son to stay in a miserable marriage.  

There is absolutely no way J'Chelle and Boob would want it, but if Bin decides he wants out and his parents are supportive, I can't really think of anything Kim Jong Boob could do to stop it. 

(Speculation alert! What follows is assuming either or both are unhappy with their marriage, which is something we don't know and I am not yet convinced of)

No the Duggar parents couldn't physically stop him. But they wouldn't need to. Both Ben and Jessa have too much to loose to divorce anytime soon. There are the usuals. They have a kid together. They are a family unit. Breaking that is never easy. Their income is Bob-dependent. No speaking appointments without the brand. They married with so much publicity and indirect boasting about their relational superiority. I imagine shame is even a stronger factor to keep them married than money. Then there is everything they believe about marriage. If they divorce, they would go against their faith, which is the foundation of their lives. Also, Ben wants a ministry career, which would be next to impossible if he, as a well-known person,  leaves his young family. So he'd loose his dreams. Jessa likewise would loose all her status in her family and cult. She'd be lower than all her sisters. And would end up back in the dorm.

Even if those two are truly fed up with each other, even a life of passive agressiveness must be more apealing than a divorce. I think if it becomes unbearable they may actually opt for real therapy.

[nst]

6 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Is it possible Ben's lil sermon was a project or a final for a class at Moody? It would certainly give his instructors something to critique.

it would explain the pink bow tie

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, JillyO said:

I agree with what you're saying. In addition, I'm wondering if you, @ksgranola1, could tell us how you know Jessica is living with her boyfriend? I know she's not living with her parents, but this is the first I'm hearing about her living with her boyfriend. That would genuinely surprise me as that's usually a big no-no with even regular very conservative Christians, let alone fundies like the Seewalds. Though she is of course an adult and no one can make her do anything. Either way, it's a shame she's only changing the superficial things, not her hateful beliefs.

I'm pretty sure she's posted stuff on Instagram about her living arrangements. Not entirely positive about that. 

I think Jessica is an interesting individual in some ways. I think she clearly loves her family, while not necessarily agreeing with or liking all they believe in or all the choices they make (specifically Ben's very strict courtship rules.) Shes definitely a pretty hateful little asshole, but I find her contradictions a bit interesting. 

Found it! See picture for comments on her Instagram (comments were on a picture of her boyfriend sitting on a truck. Haven't seen confirmation that she lives with him yet, but I think I saw it somewhere.)

[JillyO]

20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm pretty sure she's posted stuff on Instagram about her living arrangements. Not entirely positive about that. 

I think Jessica is an interesting individual in some ways. I think she clearly loves her family, while not necessarily agreeing with or liking all they believe in or all the choices they make (specifically Ben's very strict courtship rules.) Shes definitely a pretty hateful little asshole, but I find her contradictions a bit interesting. 

Found it! See picture for comments on her Instagram (comments were on a picture of her boyfriend sitting on a truck. Haven't seen confirmation that she lives with him yet, but I think I saw it somewhere.)

Like I said, I knew she's not living with her parents, but I have never seen an explanation anywhere of where she does live/what her living arrangements are. Certainly nothing about living with her boyfriend. So if you do find something to that effect, please share!

[VelociRapture]

48 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Like I said, I knew she's not living with her parents, but I have never seen an explanation anywhere of where she does live/what her living arrangements are. Certainly nothing about living with her boyfriend. So if you do find something to that effect, please share!

Doing the best I can to find it. I think this is where I originally saw the claim:

I'm still looking, but haven't found any tangible proof. I'll withdraw that prior claim and amend it to, "does not live with her parents," and, "is a legal adult," for the time being. 

@FJismyheadshipdo you remember where you saw that she lived with her boyfriend?

ETA: The post by FJismyheadship was in the Jessica Seewald Social Media thread a while ago.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

2 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

(Speculation alert! What follows is assuming either or both are unhappy with their marriage, which is something we don't know and I am not yet convinced of)

No the Duggar parents couldn't physically stop him. But they wouldn't need to. Both Ben and Jessa have too much to loose to divorce anytime soon. There are the usuals. They have a kid together. They are a family unit. Breaking that is never easy. Their income is Bob-dependent. No speaking appointments without the brand. They married with so much publicity and indirect boasting about their relational superiority. I imagine shame is even a stronger factor to keep them married than money. Then there is everything they believe about marriage. If they divorce, they would go against their faith, which is the foundation of their lives. Also, Ben wants a ministry career, which would be next to impossible if he, as a well-known person,  leaves his young family. So he'd loose his dreams. Jessa likewise would loose all her status in her family and cult. She'd be lower than all her sisters. And would end up back in the dorm.

Even if those two are truly fed up with each other, even a life of passive agressiveness must be more apealing than a divorce. I think if it becomes unbearable they may actually opt for real therapy.

I do think they are more likely to suck it up if they are indeed miserable, especially Jessa. The poor kids will pick up on the vibes as well and probably have miserable childhoods living in the middle of an unhappy marriage, but I suspect this happens a bit in fundie circles to people who marry because they mistook 'horny' for 'love'. 

But at the end of the day, if Bin decides God has ~spoken to him~ and told him it's OK to divorce Jessa and his parents are on board, Kim Jong Boob is powerless to stop it. It will mean Bin needs to go and get a real job, but if he is willing to do that, Boob has got nothing. And with the Duggars massive fall from grace, I wonder how much gravy is actually left in the train......especially when he needs to marry off 7 more daughters and get salaries and 'jobs' for multiple howler monkeys in the next fifteen years or so. 

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I do think they are more likely to suck it up if they are indeed miserable, especially Jessa. The poor kids will pick up on the vibes as well and probably have miserable childhoods living in the middle of an unhappy marriage, but I suspect this happens a bit in fundie circles to people who marry because they mistook 'horny' for 'love'. 

But at the end of the day, if Bin decides God has ~spoken to him~ and told him it's OK to divorce Jessa and his parents are on board, Kim Jong Boob is powerless to stop it. It will mean Bin needs to go and get a real job, but if he is willing to do that, Boob has got nothing. And with the Duggars massive fall from grace, I wonder how much gravy is actually left in the train......especially when he needs to marry off 7 more daughters and get salaries and 'jobs' for multiple howler monkeys in the next fifteen years or so. 

I'm on Team Suck It Up as much as I wish Jessa would come to her senses and dump the man-boy she married for attention and dick. Though it might be better PR-wise for her if he did the leaving, since that puts her in a more sympathetic/victim light. Though judging by what happened with Anna, she'd probably get blamed for not being Joyfully Available and Submissive enough. So I think she'd try to stay if only to avoid that. And he might try to stay because he'd get painted as a deadbeat if he tried to leave. So onward they'll lumber, kind of hating each other's guts and stiffly making out for People magazine at regular intervals because Ben is too lazy to work.

[FJismyheadship]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Doing the best I can to find it. I think this is where I originally saw the claim:

I'm still looking, but haven't found any tangible proof. I'll withdraw that prior claim and amend it to, "does not live with her parents," and, "is a legal adult," for the time being. 

@FJismyheadshipdo you remember where you saw that she lived with her boyfriend?

ETA: The post by FJismyheadship was in the Jessica Seewald Social Media thread a while ago.

I don't remember exactly what it was that made me think she was living with him... But I know now that they never were. 

I think I may have just assumed because we knew she didn't live with her parents and all of her social media posts were with him at the time. Until recently, she had never given any indication of living alone either so I guess my logical guess was she lived with him.