Trace and Lydia 4: Deportation Watch

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[BeccaGrim]

So, I'm not sure how you prepare for new motherhood until you are, actually, a new mother. There is no amount of preparing to do. And I don't mind Lydia saying its hard because it is hard.  And that's why I hope she does it just a few times and not more than she can handle emotionally, financially or physically.  That's why its so disgusting that these families turn the responsibility over to young girls who get to 'mother' these newborns when they should be sleeping. 

[SoSoNosy]

I was 19 when my daughter was born; my doctor shot down any ideas of breast feeding for the five weeks I'd be allowed to be off work if I wanted to keep my job, so she started out on formula.  There weren't all the formula choices there are now, so we dealt with colic and changing formula for weeks.  My salvation was that although my mother and MIL didn't live in the same place as I did, they lived in the same place as each other.  MIL would take the baby at night, but she had a part time job during the day so she would hand off to my mother.  It worked for all of us.  When the second one came along six years later, I had it figured out.  I took all the night feedings and if I was napping at the next feeding time there was always somebody around to handle the bottle.  They both thrived.

[klein_roeschen]

@CarrotCake from the previous thread

Quote

Do we know how the Romeikes got into fundementalism? I am always intrigued how fundies arise in Western Europe.

From where the Romeikes are in Germany, they are very likely Pietisten , a german evangelical protestant movement. The region they are from is the center of their movement and is some kind of bible belt for Germany. Pietism is a very conservative movement and members of that movement rose to "prominence" during Covid as part of the anti- covid movement. And the region is also now home of the first offshot church from pissing preacher Steven Anderson.
Why the Romeikes personally dived a lot deeper than their peers and made homeschooling their hill to die on: I would guess the same unholy mix of narcisim and the belief that for me alone the rules have to change so I can get exacly what I want because I'm so extra special. They made their young kids the center of their fight for homeschooling in a country where that is not legally possible while the kids payed the price for their fight. And then when they finally realized that neither the german nor the EU courts will give them what they want, the made their alliance with the HSDLA. And now again they get a reminder that the rules are the same for them and they are not special.

[SassyPants]

@GreenBeans from previous thread:

I always wonder what KJ/Gil and Michelle/JB really think when their kids are struggling with the realities of being new parents? Beyond DD and maybe John Webster, none of these families has an adult that is working for someone else and on someone else’s schedule. What if Trace had to be shuffling off to work every day on top of them having a new baby and dealing with deportation issues? This is the reality for many, many new parents.

For all JB Duggar’s intimations that his way of raising children was the best and certainly better than mainstream America’s approach, for the life of me I can not see those strengthens evidenced in his adult offspring. 

 

 

[lumpentheologie]

I don’t have kids and I’m shocked at the idea of needing to be awake every 1-3 hours for potentially 6+ weeks. That is psychological torture — if our governments did that to people human rights groups would be up in arms about it. And women are just expected to do that as part of having a baby? Often with precarious mental health even before that? Wow. 

I mean sure, supposedly breast feeding is slightly healthier, but at the cost of torture? At least supplementing with formula so your partner (if you have one) can feed too seems pretty reasonable. 

[backyard sylph]

43 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don’t have kids and I’m shocked at the idea of needing to be awake every 1-3 hours for potentially 6+ weeks. That is psychological torture — if our governments did that to people human rights groups would be up in arms about it. And women are just expected to do that as part of having a baby? Often with precarious mental health even before that? Wow. 

I mean sure, supposedly breast feeding is slightly healthier, but at the cost of torture? At least supplementing with formula so your partner (if you have one) can feed too seems pretty reasonable. 

I didn't find it torture? There were difficulties now and then, to be sure. And I mean, it's there for us to use, so that original expectation wasn't mean-spirited. It's great we have a lot of good options now, and they continue to improve, so that everyone can care for their babies the best way for their individual lives and physiological needs. But I'll confess I never thought of breastfeeding as a shocking mandate. 

[noseybutt]

I didn’t find it torture either. I learned to sleep while the babies ate. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[noseybutt]

10 hours ago, klein_roeschen said:

@CarrotCake from the previous thread

From where the Romeikes are in Germany, they are very likely Pietisten , a german evangelical protestant movement. The region they are from is the center of their movement and is some kind of bible belt for Germany. Pietism is a very conservative movement and members of that movement rose to "prominence" during Covid as part of the anti- covid movement. And the region is also now home of the first offshot church from pissing preacher Steven Anderson.
Why the Romeikes personally dived a lot deeper than their peers and made homeschooling their hill to die on: I would guess the same unholy mix of narcisim and the belief that for me alone the rules have to change so I can get exacly what I want because I'm so extra special. They made their young kids the center of their fight for homeschooling in a country where that is not legally possible while the kids payed the price for their fight. And then when they finally realized that neither the german nor the EU courts will give them what they want, the made their alliance with the HSDLA. And now again they get a reminder that the rules are the same for them and they are not special.

This is very interesting and helpful. I would have assumed they were part of one of the free churches with baptist doctrine.

[lumpentheologie]

Glad some of you didn’t find it to be torture. Maybe it helps if you’re young? I’m in my 40s and I find it impossible to experience any positive emotions on less than 6 hours of sleep. 

I guess I don’t find “our bodies are made to do it” convincing. Nature can be a pretty brutal and ruthless place. Honestly the more I learn about parenthood the happier I am that I never had a child. And then I get even angrier that Republicans are taking away the right to choose that or not. 

[GreenBeans]

What date exactly is the deadline for Lydia to self-deport? Do we know?

[gobucks]

The video went up Sept 16 and it said 1 month. The absolute latest would be October 16 though we know they didn't post the video the day they found out. 

[Keys]

3 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

Glad some of you didn’t find it to be torture. Maybe it helps if you’re young? I’m in my 40s and I find it impossible to experience any positive emotions on less than 6 hours of sleep. 

I guess I don’t find “our bodies are made to do it” convincing. Nature can be a pretty brutal and ruthless place. Honestly the more I learn about parenthood the happier I am that I never had a child. And then I get even angrier that Republicans are taking away the right to choose that or not. 

My baby was a horrible sleeper. I went into it thinking it would be hard but manageable, since I work in healthcare and am used to working 24hr shifts with little to no sleep. But damn. She would not sleep in her bassinet. Would only sleep well on her belly. And then I’d watch her like a hawk because belly sleeping isn’t as safe. So no “sleep when baby sleeps”. We then had a stretch where she was up crying from midnight to anywhere from 3-5am. I just broke down to my husband one night when it was 5:30am and I hadn’t slept yet, and said I don’t know how tf to survive this. And I sure as heck am not going to do this again. The lack of sleep was indeed torturous for me. My husband was actually recovering from major surgery when she was born, and then went back to work after 2 weeks, so he wasn’t available to help much overnight. I wanted to breastfeed her and it seemed to be all that soothed her. Plus, supplementing wouldn’t have been helpful because I would have needed to get up and pump anyways (full leaking breasts would wake me up). Direct breastfeeding her was wayyyy easier than pumping and dealing with sanitizing all the parts etc.

 

It got to the point where I fell asleep with her in bed beside me one time. Which was terrifying. And I developed postpartum depression. 
 

So… I ended up doing something I never thought I’d do. I co-slept. I would feed her beside me in bed, she’d fall asleep, I’d jiggle her over so she was away from my pillow, and then I didn’t have to move when she woke up. She finally slept 2hr at a time. Also got her a breathing monitor because of the safety aspect. It’s not something I ever wanted to do, but I couldn’t survive with the alternative. It wasn’t safe for us. 
 

I think our experience was on an extreme end because my friends with babies all said they would be able to sleep in 2-3hr chunks with their newborns on their backs in the bassinet. But it was 10x harder than what I ever expected it to be. 
 

Edited to say that I’m “young” - I had her when I was in my mid-late 20s. 
 

And, the reason people can say “our bodies are made for it” is because culturally, we aren’t supposed to be parenting alone. Through history and still in many cultures, homes are multi-generational. In North America we don’t have that support as the norm. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Keys

[xenobia]

Several articles mention that they were told on a meeting Sept 6'th that they had four weeks to get things in order and leave the country. If so, their deadline is this Wednesday, Oct 4'th. 

One example: https://decisionmagazine.com/in-u-s-legally-german-homeschool-family-faces-deportation/

 

Quote

During a routine check-in on Sept. 6, Uwe and Hannelore Romeike’s local Immigration and Customs Enforcement office told the family they need to gather their passports and self-deport within four weeks.

Edit: found a better souce. October 11'th. 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/september/germany-homeschool-family-deportation-christian-romeike.html

Quote

They said their family was directed to obtain German passports and to prepare to self-deport by October 11, with no prior warning or explanation for the change.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by xenobia
added quote

[noseybutt]

There are many things about the family’s immigration case that are atypical. Generally the timeline for voluntary departure is 60 or 120 days. But this is such an odd situation, who really knows.

(For those interested, in the legal background, see here: https://www.justia.com/immigration/deportation-removal/voluntary-departure/)

[backyard sylph]

1 hour ago, Keys said:

My baby was a horrible sleeper. I went into it thinking it would be hard but manageable, since I work in healthcare and am used to working 24hr shifts with little to no sleep. But damn. She would not sleep in her bassinet. Would only sleep well on her belly. And then I’d watch her like a hawk because belly sleeping isn’t as safe. So no “sleep when baby sleeps”. We then had a stretch where she was up crying from midnight to anywhere from 3-5am. I just broke down to my husband one night when it was 5:30am and I hadn’t slept yet, and said I don’t know how tf to survive this. And I sure as heck am not going to do this again. The lack of sleep was indeed torturous for me. My husband was actually recovering from major surgery when she was born, and then went back to work after 2 weeks, so he wasn’t available to help much overnight. I wanted to breastfeed her and it seemed to be all that soothed her. Plus, supplementing wouldn’t have been helpful because I would have needed to get up and pump anyways (full leaking breasts would wake me up). Direct breastfeeding her was wayyyy easier than pumping and dealing with sanitizing all the parts etc.

 

It got to the point where I fell asleep with her in bed beside me one time. Which was terrifying. And I developed postpartum depression. 
 

So… I ended up doing something I never thought I’d do. I co-slept. I would feed her beside me in bed, she’d fall asleep, I’d jiggle her over so she was away from my pillow, and then I didn’t have to move when she woke up. She finally slept 2hr at a time. Also got her a breathing monitor because of the safety aspect. It’s not something I ever wanted to do, but I couldn’t survive with the alternative. It wasn’t safe for us. 
 

I think our experience was on an extreme end because my friends with babies all said they would be able to sleep in 2-3hr chunks with their newborns on their backs in the bassinet. But it was 10x harder than what I ever expected it to be. 
 

Edited to say that I’m “young” - I had her when I was in my mid-late 20s. 
 

And, the reason people can say “our bodies are made for it” is because culturally, we aren’t supposed to be parenting alone. Through history and still in many cultures, homes are multi-generational. In North America we don’t have that support as the norm. 

All I meant for my part of that is that there's milk that comes out, like with other mammals. We don't have to use it, but neither was it evolutionarily developed as a governmentally mandated torture device. 

[gobucks]

They posted a video update. I haven't watched it yet. 

[marmalade]

Someone elsewhere took one for the team. Uwe failed to realize that ICE would reopen their case when the youngest German born child turned 18. That happened this year. It's on them that they chose to have more children upon arriving in the US. 

Trace is apparently a very angry ferret. I won't be giving them clicks, and I hope the feeling is universal.

[JDuggs]

Trace kept saying the Romeikes were allowed to stay in the U.S. indefinitely. Trace understands that to mean “forever” but it doesn’t. It means they hadn’t been given a date that they had to leave, but now they have.

[gobucks]

At least the dad admits that the adult kids would be screwed going back to Germany having homeschool diplomas from here. 

[BeccaGrim]

I found it really difficult all 3 times.  And it can go on for months. 

[Keys]

2 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

All I meant for my part of that is that there's milk that comes out, like with other mammals. We don't have to use it, but neither was it evolutionarily developed as a governmentally mandated torture device. 

Oh no for sure, that wasn’t directed at you! Or anyone else here. Just was sharing my own experiences. I think the US culture is really sad and especially unsupportive of working women who are also trying to exclusively breastfeed. 

[rebeccawriter01]

36 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

Trace kept saying the Romeikes were allowed to stay in the U.S. indefinitely. Trace understands that to mean “forever” but it doesn’t. It means they hadn’t been given a date that they had to leave, but now they have.

Yes, his SOTDRT is showing. Indefinite means "lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time." It can also mean "not clearly expressed or defined; vague."

The mental gymnastics is stunning. Lydia and her family were not given a date when they would be deported but it wasn't as though the government said welcome to your forever home either. If you're following the crisis with Venezuela, you can see how the government works with asylum seekers and how overloaded that system is currently.  

[GuineaPigCourtship]

10 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I mean sure, supposedly breast feeding is slightly healthier, but at the cost of torture? At least supplementing with formula so your partner (if you have one) can feed too seems pretty reasonable. 

For me, breast feeding was way easier because I didn't want to deal with making bottles.  I pumped for daycare but I never gave her a bottle personally. This kid is still boob-centric at 2.5yr and the opportunity to whip one out at any time for comfort and feeding was perfect for me.  I've had friends that wanted to exclusively pump, some that just did formula, and some that did a combo of all 3.  As long as the kid is getting enough nutrition, everyone else can back off.

 

@Keys my daughter also refused a basinet/crib and ended up cosleeping with us.  I would be up all night holding her on the couch and then try and get a little sleep while my husband had her, maybe an hour or so.  After two weeks of less than 2 hours of sleep per day, I started falling asleep with her on the couch and decided the bed was safer.  It was the absolute line in the sand I thought I'd draw, but life makes fools of us all.

Edited October 2, 2023 by GuineaPigCourtship

[GreenBeans]

2 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Keys my daughter also refused a basinet/crib and ended up cosleeping with us.

Don’t you have the cribs that you can attach to the parents’ bed in the US? Most people I know had one, “Babybay” is a well known brand here. That way, the baby is right there, but still in a safe space.

This is what it looks like: