Jessa, Ben and Spurgeon Part Seven

[Jinder Roles]

1 hour ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I don't think it's possi ble to change the type of marriage you have without getting a divorce first

According to a very quick Wikipedia search, couples without covenant marriages can accept the obligations of a covenant marriage at a later date (Arkansas Code Annotated 9-11-807)

[nst]

I don't think Ben and Jessa have a covenant marriage - Jill and Derick do because they bragged about it - 

I am sure if B & J had it - they would brag about it 

1 hour ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I remember reading a article that Jill and Derick have a covenant marriage. No idea about Bin and Jessa.

JIll said it at the reception of her wedding 

[Fundie Bunny]

5 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

According to a very quick Wikipedia search, couples without covenant marriages can accept the obligations of a covenant marriage at a later date (Arkansas Code Annotated 9-11-807)

Wow, poor Anna then

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, artdecades said:

Don't they have a covenant marriage like the Dullards? If Ben wants a divorce, its not so easy. Not only do they have to have counseling, but if one party doesn't want a divorce, the person requesting the divorce must prove there are grounds for divorce. According to this site, http://www.arlegalservices.org/files/FSCovenantMarriage.pdf, the only grounds for the dissolution of a covenant marriage are: 

• Adultery

• Felony or serious crime

• Physical or sexual abuse of one of your children

• Living separate and apart from you for at least 2 years

• Living separate and apart from you for at least 2 years and 6 months, if you have a child

• Living separate and apart from you for at least 1 year, if you have a child and your spouse abused you or the child

So if Bin wants a divorce, he first needs to live separately from Jessa for 2 years and 6 months unless he claims there is abuse or adultery.

Living apart for 2 years and 6 months shouldn't be that hard for a person who is really sick of his or her marriage.

As I recall, as late as the 1960s and early 70s there were states where the only divorce possible other than on grounds of abuse, infidelity or fraud was divorce after a one or two year separation. That is, there was no "irreconcilable differences" option.

And even today, many states have a "living apart" requirement if a divorce is contested (that is, if both parties don't agree to a divorce) unless the person seeking the divorce can prove "cause" (adultery, abuse, etc.).  

In Arkansas the "no cohabitation" period is 18 months. In Tennessee it is two years. In Florida, Georgia and Mississippi there seems to be no such period, but "desertion" of one year is considered grounds for divorce.  In Texas, there is an option to divorce without the consent of both parties after a three year separation.  And so on.

Two and a half years seems doable, but Ben would have to get a job and move away.

[FleeJanaFree]

1 hour ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Wow, poor Anna then

I think Anna stated after the affairs that she knew she had biblically bound reasons to leave, but won't. I believe she said she made a promise to God, not Josh, that she would stay with Josh, and she will keep that Promise.

[anotherone]

5 hours ago, artdecades said:

the only grounds for the dissolution of a covenant marriage are: 

....

• Living separate and apart from you for at least 1 year, if you have a child and your spouse abused you or the child

Am I understanding this right? So spousal abuse isn't enough?  You have to spend another whole year married to that wacko so he can continue to abuse you, if not physically anymore, but emotionally and financially?  Geez, women sure are 2nd class.

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Am I understanding this right? So spousal abuse isn't enough?  You have to spend another whole year married to that wacko so he can continue to abuse you, if not physically anymore, but emotionally and financially?  Geez, women sure are 2nd class.

Men as well. I don't see anything about a man not having to wait a year to divorce an abusive spouse.

(And I say this knowing that women are much more likely to be victims of domestic abuse. But I do think it's important to remember that men can also be victims too. I'm sure you know that as well, I just thought it should be stated.)

[Elvis Presby]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Men as well. I don't see anything about a man not having to wait a year to divorce an abusive spouse.

(And I say this knowing that women are much more likely to be victims of domestic abuse. But I do think it's important to remember that men can also be victims too. I'm sure you know that as well, I just thought it should be stated.)

Very true.  My grandfather's wife hit him the day he died.  He had an average of 1 heart attack a year from 1971 until he died in 1980.  He was afraid to have bypass surgery and as a result became more and more frail with each heart attack. We don't know how often his wife hit him or if she only did it that one time, but on the day he died she did tell someone that she felt horrible that she had hit him earlier that day.  Evil bitch.  (for the record, this was not my grandmother, but his 2nd wife).

[MakeItSo]

first of all, as a general statement: I hope everyone on here knows that when I click the green arrow up it means "I hear ya" "I support you" or sometimes just "hugs" ...I always second guess if I should "like" someone's post when it's a sad one but I trust people know what I mean. 

Moving on, thank you for bringing up that spousal/domestic abuse can go both ways. I am sure that women are more likely to be on the receiving end of this (and even then many don't report it as I just learned in my criminology class where we discussed who gets abused and who reports and why people don't report it, or at least not right away, etc). I wonder how many guys get hit but don't say anything because they are afraid to tell the police just because of what society/or even the cops would think about it and they'd be made fun of. 
As a guy growing up if one of my sisters ever hit/pinched me and I would mention it to an adult, I was always asked "what did you to her to make her do that?" or they'd laugh at me because I let a girl "beat me up" or whatever. I remember it used to confuse me because I also knew it would never be tolerated for me to hit girl but I just accepted it and moved on so to speak. (to be clear: my siblings and I did not constantly beat each other up. We had typical sibling arguments with the one or the other slap/pinch fest and roughhoused and all but overall stood up for one another if someone else was messing with one of us etc.). It's interesting how ingrained into society the whole gender expectation thing is and you either notice it early because you yourself don't fit the mold or maybe once you hit university because of some sociology classes you end up taking, etc. It's fascinating but also frustrating and all kinds of emotions in between. 

[Mercer]

I really don't get the point of a covenant marriage. You can do all the same things in a regular marriage - it's not like you're forced to get a divorce if you don't want to. You can just agree as a couple where to set the boundaries for your own marriage, and set them where you see fit. 

Covenant marriages seem like a show of being holier-than-thou that don't really signify anything substantial, in my judgmental opinion.

[nastyhobbitses]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

I really don't get the point of a covenant marriage. You can do all the same things in a regular marriage - it's not like you're forced to get a divorce if you don't want to. You can just agree as a couple where to set the boundaries for your own marriage, and set them where you see fit. 

Covenant marriages seem like a show of being holier-than-thou that don't really signify anything substantial, in my judgmental opinion.

It's like how you could just go buy a wedding dress that has a higher neck and sleeves, or get a bolero, but you can show how truly holy and blessed you are by getting awkward and ungainly alterations done on a Whore Wedding Dress. There are simpler, subtler ways to express and live your faith, but subtle doesn't facilitate smug.

[anotherone]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

I really don't get the point of a covenant marriage. You can do all the same things in a regular marriage - it's not like you're forced to get a divorce if you don't want to. You can just agree as a couple where to set the boundaries for your own marriage, and set them where you see fit. 

Apparently it just locks you in if you are abused.

16 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

It's like how you could just go buy a wedding dress that has a higher neck and sleeves, or get a bolero, but you can show how truly holy and blessed you are by getting awkward and ungainly alterations done on a Whore Wedding Dress. There are simpler, subtler ways to express and live your faith, but subtle doesn't facilitate smug.

Whore Wedding dress reminds me of an old cartoon (The Critic) where the wealthy teen is getting fitted for a debutante ball dress.  The designer takes her aside and insists she tell him if she's pure, as white is only for pure girls, otherwise she has to wear a cream color called "hussy white."  He pushes, so do I use that color?  She avoids his eyes, then confesses, "Only for the gloves."   

We loved that phrase hussy white.

[ksgranola1]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 7:43 AM, actuallyjessica said:

I took Ben and Jessa's post as a "weep with the fellow white, religious, straight people that weep".

I'm willing to bet even JB didn't know what a gay club was.

[lascuba]

14 hours ago, Mercer said:

I really don't get the point of a covenant marriage. You can do all the same things in a regular marriage - it's not like you're forced to get a divorce if you don't want to. You can just agree as a couple where to set the boundaries for your own marriage, and set them where you see fit. 

Covenant marriages seem like a show of being holier-than-thou that don't really signify anything substantial, in my judgmental opinion.

That's exactly what it is. It's arrogant grandstanding and I don't have the tiniest shred of sympathy for anyone stuck in a shitty marriage because of it.

[nastyhobbitses]

22 minutes ago, lascuba said:

That's exactly what it is. It's arrogant grandstanding and I don't have the tiniest shred of sympathy for anyone stuck in a shitty marriage because of it.

In a weird way, I feel a little sympathy for Jessa if our hunch is right and her marriage is turning out to be kinda crappy, in that she probably did see marriage as a win-win-win for her: get out of the house, get to be the center of attention, and get to have sex with the super hot guy who pays attention to her in a way that no one else probably did. Now, if her marriage is as shitty as we think it is, she's stuck in a prison of pretty much her own device. She made the best choice she could make as an uneducated, attention-starved, horny, and fed-up twentysomething fundie girl, and now she's stuck with a weird morose wannabe preacher for a husband and a kid whom, while it's clear she adores, her weird morose wannabe preacher husband doesn't seem terribly interested in actually fathering beyond playing with him occasionally.

[seattlechic]

I am still trying to understand why on @$@% earth would anyone name their kid Spurgeon. I mean, come oooooooon. It's like Harry Potter naming his kid Albus Severus. That's just fucked up.

 

[socalrules]

3 minutes ago, seattlechic said:

I am still trying to understand why on @$@% earth would anyone name their kid Spurgeon. I mean, come oooooooon. It's like Harry Potter naming his kid Albus Severus. That's just fucked up.

 

I agree on Spurgeon but at least Albus Severus was based people who that had a great impact on Harry's life and really gave their lives for the betterment of others. Well, and of course Dumbledore and Snape were badass and when your Dad is Harry Potter it likely doesn't matter what your name is. Poor Spurge is stuck with an unemployed dad who can't even work hard at using original material when posting on Twitter. 

[seattlechic]

Just now, socalrules said:

I agree on Spurgeon but at least Albus Severus was based people who that had a great impact on Harry's life and really gave their lives for the betterment of others. Well, and of course Dumbledore and Snape were badass and when your Dad is Harry Potter it likely doesn't matter what your name is. Poor Spurge is stuck with an unemployed dad who can't even work hard at using original material when posting on Twitter. 

True. Plus I reckon Albus Severus can make your _____ fall off with his wand. Bin's wand is apparently, well....

[SassyPants]

Jessa is an adult and she can, by law and by marriage(her cult),  make adult decisions. 

So, she/they could get jobs

Move

Use birth control

Go fundie light

Go to jr college

Go to beauty school

Woman up, couple up and lead their own freaking lives.

She doesn't need the Duggars anymore- if the show continues, it's not even about her parents. They need HER more than she needs them.

For a girl who presents as tough, she sure seems to lack common sense, tenacity and self confidence.

Either that or she is incredibly lazy, immature and unmotivated.

Once you have the ability to f*ck  up another being's life, you no longer have any excuse.

[seattlechic]

33 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Jessa is an adult and she can, by law and by marriage(her cult),  make adult decisions. 

So, she/they could get jobs

Move

Use birth control

Go fundie light

Go to jr college

Go to beauty school

Woman up, couple up and lead their own freaking lives.

She doesn't need the Duggars anymore- if the show continues, it's not even about her parents. They need HER more than she needs them.

For a girl who presents as tough, she sure seems to lack common sense, tenacity and self confidence.

Either that or she is incredibly lazy, immature and unmotivated.

Once you have the ability to f*ck  up another being's life, you no longer have any excuse.

Bravo! It just irks me that they are so incredibly helpless (according to them), when they re just truly LAZY .Come on, Jessa is not an ex-FLDS gal who doesn't know how to write. Bitch, if you know how to operate a curling iron (and we all know she does), you can get a job. But, why work when you can milk TLC????

[theinvisiblegirl]

3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

In a weird way, I feel a little sympathy for Jessa if our hunch is right and her marriage is turning out to be kinda crappy, in that she probably did see marriage as a win-win-win for her: get out of the house, get to be the center of attention, and get to have sex with the super hot guy who pays attention to her in a way that no one else probably did. Now, if her marriage is as shitty as we think it is, she's stuck in a prison of pretty much her own device. She made the best choice she could make as an uneducated, attention-starved, horny, and fed-up twentysomething fundie girl, and now she's stuck with a weird morose wannabe preacher for a husband and a kid whom, while it's clear she adores, her weird morose wannabe preacher husband doesn't seem terribly interested in actually fathering beyond playing with him occasionally.

And, if they were to ever somehow get a divorce, she's drank so much kool aid that she and Spud would be right back in the girls' dorm just like what happened to Anna when Josh was in pornhab/Jesus Jail. I honestly think Jessa would rather suffer in a shitty marriage than go back to that house. Since she does seem to wear the pants in the relationship, I can't see her wanting to go back to submitting herself to Jim Bob's reign of terror full time now that she only has to do it part time.

[nastyhobbitses]

13 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

And, if they were to ever somehow get a divorce, she's drank so much kool aid that she and Spud would be right back in the girls' dorm just like what happened to Anna when Josh was in pornhab/Jesus Jail. I honestly think Jessa would rather suffer in a shitty marriage than go back to that house. Since she does seem to wear the pants in the relationship, I can't see her wanting to go back to submitting herself to Jim Bob's reign of terror full time now that she only has to do it part time.

Yeah, I'd rather stay married to a douchey religious zealot/wannabe rapper/wearer of terrible hats/but at least he's physically attractive than move back into the Duggar House of Horrors.

[nst]

the way she treated Ben onscreen I think she treats him like that in real life and he is one who submits

 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

That's exactly what it is. It's arrogant grandstanding and I don't have the tiniest shred of sympathy for anyone stuck in a shitty marriage because of it.

I wouldn't in the case of the Dullards who wanted everyone to know they are EVEN MORE SURE THAN YOU BECAUSE WE COURTED 4 JEEBUS, but I do for people who were essentially forced to accept it by manipulative and emotionally abusive spouses who wanted to ensure they had even more control over their partner. I can easily see covenant marriage being used in that way in sectors of the religious community that don't like women having rights. it is also why I don't like it being a legal option.....no fault divorce is there for a reason and I think the 'living apart for 2+ years' makes it difficult for women to escape abusive marriages whether their finances are controlled. 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

In a weird way, I feel a little sympathy for Jessa if our hunch is right and her marriage is turning out to be kinda crappy, in that she probably did see marriage as a win-win-win for her: get out of the house, get to be the center of attention, and get to have sex with the super hot guy who pays attention to her in a way that no one else probably did. Now, if her marriage is as shitty as we think it is, she's stuck in a prison of pretty much her own device. She made the best choice she could make as an uneducated, attention-starved, horny, and fed-up twentysomething fundie girl, and now she's stuck with a weird morose wannabe preacher for a husband and a kid whom, while it's clear she adores, her weird morose wannabe preacher husband doesn't seem terribly interested in actually fathering beyond playing with him occasionally.

It's the covenant marriage aspect of it that makes sympathy die a quick death. These people already don't believe in divorce, so...they sign a marriage contract that makes it even harder to divorce to prove how committed they are to never divorce no matter what? If Jessa, Jill, or anyone else in that family actually end up pursuing a divorce and are met with obstacles of their own making, I'm not going to be at all outraged on their behalf. They not only arrogantly assumed they had it all figured out, they had the nerve to use their fame to lecture people.  Let it be a learning experience for them. 

I don't disagree with anything you said, btw. Jessa's life right now/where it seems to be heading (well, what we speculate anyway, because who the hell knows) is the exact type of situation I'd feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for if an ex-fundie who escaped her crappy marriage and family were telling us about it.  And while I've always found Jessa obnoxious, as the only Duggar with a personality she was also my sort of favorite, so watching her whole relationship with Ben unfold has been like watching an upcoming train wreck in slow motion. I do feel some sympathy for her, but a big part of it is more theoretical, in the sense that the situation is sad no matter who it involves and I don't wish that on anyone. In the specific? That sympathy is mixed with a heavy dose of schadenfreude. 

6 hours ago, seattlechic said:

I am still trying to understand why on @$@% earth would anyone name their kid Spurgeon. I mean, come oooooooon. It's like Harry Potter naming his kid Albus Severus. That's just fucked up.

 

I'm still mad about Harry naming his kid Severus.