Jessa, Ben and Spurgeon Part Seven

[countingblessings]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:58 PM, 19Kittens said:

I am also 21. I am married to a 26 year old. Our daughter is almost 2. 

It's hard sometimes. I didn't drink until I turned 21 and I've literally only been out that one time (december). I'm jealous of my friends, they are going on vacations & going to school and going out, living in huge gorgeous houses with roommates & buying new cars, having parties & fun. 

Meanwhile I'm at home in our studio that doesn't have a stove (I cook on a propane single camping burner & use a toaster oven) driving a car thisclose to blowing the motor trying to learn how to be an adult. I love my daughter & I love my husband but it fucking sucks sometimes. Especially when he's at sea for work. my MIL has no interest in being involved in my daughters life & my own mom doesn't want to watch her because she's "too much" for her new boyfriend (they're mid 40's not that old) . 

Basically what I'm saying is yeah I bet Ben feels like he's missing out. I sure as hell do except my child is older & I don't have the luxury of calling the Jslaves when I need a break.

ok sorry rant over. 

I got engaged at 17 when hubby and I had dated for a year and then I got married at 19. We have one kid, a four year old girl and I'm now nearly 26. To be honest I feel old. By 26 my mom already 4 kids with her oldest(me) being 11 and her youngest being 5. My aunt,grandparents, all of them had babies in their teens. I was the odd ball who waited to get married and then have a kid. I get feeling lonely. All of my friends have already graduated college and have careers while I'm just now a sophomore.Sometimes I feel like a I missed out as far traveling goes and I'm so busy I have zero time to hang out with anyone.

That being said I really don't regret any of it. We've been together going on 10 years, have a awesome kid and I'm older so I take college far more seriously than I would have when I was younger. Starting a family young just means we have more motivation. I talk to teens fresh in college and they have zero idea who they are, what they really want to do and most of them are so busy out having 'fun' they don't take college seriously and recognize it for the amazing opportunity that it is. I had zero desire to really go to college and would never have went  if it wasn't for my daughter and if I hadn't have had her by my side when my dad was killed in a accident I think I would have lost it.  I know it can be lonely, but take it from a child of a teenage mom(14yrs old so barely a teen) what you're doing is so much more important than any party or trip. When your kid gets old enough you'll be a source of inspiration to make the most of whatever life throws at you and the most important thing is she will rememberthe love you have for her and emulate that to others especially her own kids. I know when I'm a at my wtis end I think about how my mom had 4 and it gives me comfort because if she can do that I can do it with just one.Plus I enjoyed having a young mom most of the time except when we got asked out to parties together under the assumption  we were sisters or friends. Also, all of my guy friends considered her young enough to hit on publicly.So there was that downside...

[nst]

please tell me you all saw the author's newest video - he looks like someone from the 50's with his pink bow tie 

discussing conspiracies 

he has totally lost it 

I wonder why he thought it was a good idea to do videos again 

[defraudedbychipendales]

22 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Just remember that while you are always wearing your "mom" hat, it doesn't have to wear you. If she gets into the early learning program, don't spend all the time she's gone on housework and stuff. Take some of that time for yourself, whether its painting your toenails, taking an extra long shower (without an interruption? That exists??!) or my personal favorite, cranking my music and dancing with a broom. I have nights where I go to Walmart in my fuzzy Minions pajama pants because 1) the kids are all home asleep. No demands for candy or cookies, toys, etc I can get what I need without hassle and 2) because even when I'm "adulting"  I don't always have the energy to get fully dressed to go out. It's a learning curve that's even harder when you're young because you're still discovering 'you' and I promise thats perfectly okay! Its hard sometimes not to lose yourself along the way (as I suspect Ben might be feeling) but it gets better. Message me anytime, I might not answer right away but I'm usually around at some point!

@19Kittens - single mom here -

As Shadoewolf said, take some time for yourself REGULARLY! Your daughter needs to know that you are a person with interests beside her! AND it saves your sanity to have "me time!"

[Mercer]

For me, the presence of Ben and Derrick in the family is one of the biggest mysteries of how the Duggar mind works.

Jim Bob and Michelle are operating under the premises that 1.) parents have the right/responsibility to approve or deny their daughters' suitors, 2.) their daughters will always be primarily homemakers rather than wage earners, and 3.) the couples will begin producing children immediately after getting married and continue to do so as long as it is physically possible, potentially ending up with very large families... and based on all that, you would expect that ability to support a family would be a high priority in a potential suitor. You would think that having a marketable skill and a proven work history would be a must.

Instead, they end up with these two boys who would rather play around on someone else's dime than work to support their own children.

I just don't get why Jim Bob and Michelle didn't intervene. I mean, it's not like they're normal parents who recognize that their adult children have to lead their own lives - they intervene in everything else. So why not this?

If it's a control thing (keeping their daughters financially dependent on their parents rather than just their spouses,) it's incredibly short-sighted. The female Duggar kids have the potential to produce a hundred children of their own, and no matter how much they make from the show or how much Jim Bob has squirreled away from his business ventures, a single income stream can't support all those people forever.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

For me, the presence of Ben and Derrick in the family is one of the biggest mysteries of how the Duggar mind works.

Jim Bob and Michelle are operating under the premises that 1.) parents have the right/responsibility to approve or deny their daughters' suitors, 2.) their daughters will always be primarily homemakers rather than wage earners, and 3.) the couples will begin producing children immediately after getting married and continue to do so as long as it is physically possible, potentially ending up with very large families... and based on all that, you would expect that ability to support a family would be a high priority in a potential suitor. You would think that having a marketable skill and a proven work history would be a must.

Instead, they end up with these two boys who would rather play around on someone else's dime than work to support their own children.

I just don't get why Jim Bob and Michelle didn't intervene. I mean, it's not like they're normal parents who recognize that their adult children have to lead their own lives - they intervene in everything else. So why not this?

If it's a control thing (keeping their daughters financially dependent on their parents rather than just their spouses,) it's incredibly short-sighted. The female Duggar kids have the potential to produce a hundred children of their own, and no matter how much they make from the show or how much Jim Bob has squirreled away from his business ventures, a single income stream can't support all those people forever.

Because CONTROL trumps everything, but perhaps, MONEY. Educated, hard working men, with equally controlling parents {see Maxwells, Paines, Websters, Keillens} would not be accessible to JB. He has to settle. Eventually, the 2nd generation Duggs will be hosed.

[2manyKidzzz]

There are just so many layers of control, cult-mentality, fake religious zeal.......and misogyny and, well, we all know the list goes on and on. Too much to think about. Crazy really. 

[Jinder Roles]

2 hours ago, nst said:

please tell me you all saw the author's newest video - he looks like someone from the 50's with his pink bow tie 

discussing conspiracies 

he has totally lost it 

I wonder why he thought it was a good idea to do videos again 

Watched all eight minutes. 

He was talking about the 'Christian' response to conspiracy theories which spiraled into rebellion against God which somehow spiraled into the government and ISIS (???). Lots of mandatory talk about judgement. Definitely did not flow logically. I was very confused. Nevermind that Pslam 2 speaks of prophecies and not conspiracies.

2 out of 10. Bin does not possess the gift of preaching. Maybe go to seminary first.

[Ungodly Grandma]

7 hours ago, nst said:

I wonder why he thought it was a good idea to do videos again 

B/c the rapping didn't work out?

[Wenny]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:58 PM, 19Kittens said:

I am also 21. I am married to a 26 year old. Our daughter is almost 2. 

It's hard sometimes. I didn't drink until I turned 21 and I've literally only been out that one time (december). I'm jealous of my friends, they are going on vacations & going to school and going out, living in huge gorgeous houses with roommates & buying new cars, having parties & fun. 

Meanwhile I'm at home in our studio that doesn't have a stove (I cook on a propane single camping burner & use a toaster oven) driving a car thisclose to blowing the motor trying to learn how to be an adult. I love my daughter & I love my husband but it fucking sucks sometimes. Especially when he's at sea for work. my MIL has no interest in being involved in my daughters life & my own mom doesn't want to watch her because she's "too much" for her new boyfriend (they're mid 40's not that old) . 

Basically what I'm saying is yeah I bet Ben feels like he's missing out. I sure as hell do except my child is older & I don't have the luxury of calling the Jslaves when I need a break.

ok sorry rant over. 

Hey!

My daughter is 2 and I am pregnant with our 2nd. I am 23 and my husband is 24.

I personally can not stand "adulting" mindset. It feels like when my daughter yells "I went potty!", Kind of a self congratulation of do normal responsibilities. Should I fake smile and clap for my friends who made a dentist appointment all by yourself. As we live longer, we marry later, have kids even later. I think the averge age is for marriage is 25-26 so that means having kids is now in late 20's and early 30's. 

My husband had "woah" moment when he was venting about house market, marriage and toddler tantrum and his friend said he give anything to have a wife to go home to or wake up to a kid messes.   

 

[2manyKidzzz]

13 hours ago, nst said:

please tell me you all saw the author's newest video - he looks like someone from the 50's with his pink bow tie 

discussing conspiracies 

he has totally lost it 

I wonder why he thought it was a good idea to do videos again 

This is Bin? 

I should check Instagram? Can't wait!!

[princessmahina]

I'd like to keep up with Ben's incoherent ramblings, but I can't stand his voice. He reminds me of this stoner i used to date in high school. 

Do we have a vomiting smiley? Because it seems appropriate here. 

[Nashville92]

I'll be 27 in a month.  I'm single and still live at home.  I love being single most days because I can do prety much anything I want.  However I do get extremely lonely seeing all my friends getting married and having kids.  I know it sounds ridiculous but I would love to come home to a husband and have someone to talk to and go places with.  On the other hand I see some of the troubles my friends have gone through with men and I'm grateful I haven't experienced that.  I realize I could be a lot worse off

[nickelodeon]

I have to imagine that being Ben and confiding in your wife, the girl who spent her entire precious youth putting her family's belongings into boxes, would go something like:

HIM: "I feel like I don't have a life anymore."

HER: "A what now???"

[BabyBottlePop]

4 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I'd like to keep up with Ben's incoherent ramblings, but I can't stand his voice. He reminds me of this stoner i used to date in high school. 

Do we have a vomiting smiley? Because it seems appropriate here. 

Yes, there's something about his voice that I don't like. Reminded me of the stoners I knew in high school too. They-- and Bin-- talked in a way that made them sound like you were an idiot for even making them make a statement. Cocky idiocy I guess is a better way to phrase it.

[foreign fundie]

Nice to read the replies from young mums. We were not planning babies before I would graduate college. Didn't work out like that. So I had to write my dissertation with a tod around my legs and a baby latched to my nipple. 

Just sayin' it can be done. And having less time makes you really appreciate your library hours. 

I know a lot of young mums. And although having a baby in your teens is not a choice I would generally encourage (unless you are in a stable place relationally, and one of the parents already has a reasonable job and an acceptable place to live), being young in itself does not mean you can't raise healthy and happy kids. The massive advantage is the energy you have and the adaptability to new challenges. Raising a family with limited resources does build character and problem solving skills. And kids are not just hard work. They are family, and sharing your best years with a beloved husband and kids, that is not my definition of 'missing out'.

[MakeItSo]

On 6/6/2016 at 10:53 PM, zee_four said:

I'm from outside of Vail so about 45 min from Breck. They have a lot of good parks but I like Area 51 at Keystone and the 22' super pipe they now make at Vail for the Burton Open.

 

And the town was named after some guy in the 19to century.

nice! I just recently got into transition a little bit two seasons ago...I've always been a complete park rat. I have to hit any rail, box, or kicker in my near vicinity on my way down the mountain and if there are no features there are always flatground tricks like butters etc haha but for some reason I wasn't really interested in half pipes for many years until I rode up at Big Bear after I had moved down here for university and they had a quarter pipe just sitting there, nice and tall and I ended up hiking that thing for like 3 hours with my buds just givin er, trying out new stuff. I was like, alright, let me check out that half pipe down near the bottom after all. Sorry, I'm going on and on but it's summer and I have downhill mountainbiking now but snowboarding is my one love and when you go every week during the winter months (since I was 5 basically) and then not at all during the summer, it's ...*dramatic pause* agonizing.  

carry on now, folks. Pretend this post never happened. 

[mizandry]

14 hours ago, Wenny said:

I personally can not stand "adulting" mindset. It feels like when my daughter yells "I went potty!", Kind of a self congratulation of do normal responsibilities. Should I fake smile and clap for my friends who made a dentist appointment all by yourself. As we live longer, we marry later, have kids even later. I think the averge age is for marriage is 25-26 so that means having kids is now in late 20's and early 30's. 

I have to disagree. I can understand not wanting to be congratulated on what are, for you, menial adult tasks - but your analysis of the "adulting mindset" lacks a lot of context and empathy. I would hope you'd do that for a friend, if they needed the assurance and were struggling.

Those messages are primarily by and for mentally ill and disabled people who have difficulties accomplishing "normal responsibilities" +  basic adult tasks due to health/trauma-related problems. It's not to condescend to people - it's a resource for those who need the reminder to not only do certain tasks, but feel encouraged if/when they get to it - not ashamed for the fact that it was a struggle to begin with. It actually helps the people who need it, when they do. It's fine that you don't. But I know it helped me for a good period of time when I was still deep in a series of traumatic events in my life, and it continues to help me now (some messages, that is - others feel patronizing to me because it's not the assurance I'm seeking, and sometimes that changes). I'm more productive than I was in part because those messages helped me to build a healthier mindset from what I'd started with (and am still on the mend) - so I'm more capable of getting things done without it taking a serious toll on my health.

 I don't think that's something I'm dropping anytime soon, though I do understand how that mentality can read as condescending to others (even other mentally ill folks). It's just worth considering that these sentiments are not actually meant for everybody, and we should respect the fact that there are people who really do find it useful for all sorts of reasons.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

Just saw Benye's PinkBowTieSermon. Hysterical, completely hysterical. 

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Oh, binjermin. Thou puttest the duh in dumb.  I couldn't make it to the end. I've heard better, more well-reasoned presentations from middle schoolers. Yes, from the ebil publick skools. 

The setting is weird - mirrored wall behind + dark & empty. Which, with his black shirt & ridic pink bow tie, made him look like a floating ventriloquist dummy head.

I wonder what his parents think when they see/hear such drivel? I'd be embarrassed. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

12 hours ago, mizandry said:

I have to disagree. I can understand not wanting to be congratulated on what are, for you, menial adult tasks - but your analysis of the "adulting mindset" lacks a lot of context and empathy. I would hope you'd do that for a friend, if they needed the assurance and were struggling.

Those messages are primarily by and for mentally ill and disabled people who have difficulties accomplishing "normal responsibilities" +  basic adult tasks due to health/trauma-related problems. It's not to condescend to people - it's a resource for those who need the reminder to not only do certain tasks, but feel encouraged if/when they get to it - not ashamed for the fact that it was a struggle to begin with. It actually helps the people who need it, when they do. It's fine that you don't. But I know it helped me for a good period of time when I was still deep in a series of traumatic events in my life, and it continues to help me now (some messages, that is - others feel patronizing to me because it's not the assurance I'm seeking, and sometimes that changes). I'm more productive than I was in part because those messages helped me to build a healthier mindset from what I'd started with (and am still on the mend) - so I'm more capable of getting things done without it taking a serious toll on my health.

 I don't think that's something I'm dropping anytime soon, though I do understand how that mentality can read as condescending to others (even other mentally ill folks). It's just worth considering that these sentiments are not actually meant for everybody, and we should respect the fact that there are people who really do find it useful for all sorts of reasons.

 

(Potentially triggering post for mental illness) 

I have to agree with this.

I had very severe clinical depression a few years ago and fantasised a lot about killing myself. I used to get angry at myself for not having the 'guts' to kill myself.

At that point in my life, it was an accomplishment to get myself out of bed and presentable enough to go out somewhere. I had a very dear friend who always used to say she was 'proud' of me for doing basic things....and it was what I needed to hear at that point. Maybe it was stupid to tell another grown adult you're 'proud' of them for scheduling a medical appointment or washing their hair and going to Starbucks, but she knew I needed that encouragement. I like to think that if needed, I would be able to identify a friend who needs that support and provide it to them without judgement. 

I was 25/26.

I am now turning 30 this year and am very grateful that I never followed through with ending my life when I wanted to. 

 

[apandaaries]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:55 AM, nausicaa said:

See if there were some level of mutual admiration and respect between them or they were a little older, I might agree. But to be blunt about it, Ben and Jessa got married because they wanted to bang. Now that they've gotten some release, they're looking at each other and realizing "I don't like you all that much." They really don't have anything in common. Hell, I don't even think they know who they are yet. Add in the pressures of parenthood, being reliant on JB, and the public attention and it must be miserable.

<snip>

I really feel that the bolded is their problem.  I haven't seen Ben's latest spiel, but from the Counting On series, he was clearly rather discombobulated by the arrival of Spurgeon.  This is the same youngster who had to leave the room when Jessa was bleeding so badly -- he is YOUNG.  As the previous discussions have clearly illustrated, that's not a fatal flaw for a parent, but it can be overwhelming, at least at times.  Rather than getting to develop a true relationship with Jessa (as JB was able to do with MEchelle, since they had a normal dating relationship and then used birth control and built an independent financial foundation before beginning their family), they went from never being alone, to a (cheap & appalling) wedding, to a honeymoon alone, then into the breeding season, which is supposed to occupy them for the next two decades. Her family is prioritized, and he can't break away -- at least yet.  He may be trying to learn something from Derrick.  

But the problem is really with the courtship situation.  They never got to know much about each other, not truly.  I think Jessa was looking for someone easy to control, and Ben had unrealistic expectations about who is fundie wife-to-be-was, and just how much she would submit.  I have a feeling, though, that Jessa will only be able to endure so much stupidity from Benye.  He is just not as clever as he thinks he is, and while Jessa has her own limitations, she seems savvier than he is.  There have been some moments, though, where she seems to have expressed herself a bit more clearly, and with a bit more distaste than is healthy for a relationship.  Did anyone else read that study about "disaster relationships" v. "master relationships"? ( http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/happily-ever-after/372573/ ) Researchers noted how individuals made bids for attention, and the responses indicated the health and potential longevity of the relationship. Interest in the subject was positive; ignoring the bid for attention or showing contempt were signing that the relationship was not destined for the long-term.  Jessa, to me, doesn't seem impressed with Benye and can't keep acting forever; it's not her nature.  Now that the sexual tension has worn off, there's only so much more fake laughing she can do at his lame jokes.  As always, I'm hoping they aren't going to adopt.   

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I never thought I'd say this........but I actually feel a bit sorry for Bin and Jessa. Unlike most people, they don't get to scratch their itches when horny and thus became victims of a culture that is so strict they can't even hold someone's hand until an engagement ring is involved and can't have a private unmonitored conversation. They never truly got to know each other and work out if the other was a compatible spouse and in Jessa's case especially, marriage was her only chance to get out of sharing a room with her 6 year old sister and to do something as simple as going to the mall without a chaperone. 

I said all along that if they were normal college students, they'd probably have dated and banged for a few months and then broken up and gone their separate ways. 

But they weren't, so they got married because it was their ticket to kiss and get into each other's pants. It was all sunny at first....Jessa was out of the TTH and got to have sex. But now, ~18 months later, the 'novelty' of having sex has worn off a little bit, they have a baby and I suspect both are wondering if they should have gotten married after all. Bin is 21 and no doubt realising everything he is missing out on by having had a child so young and how much it is limiting his options if he wants to try and change something. I think Jessa is realising that she liked the idea of Bin's penis more than the man himself and now she's stuck with a wedding ring and his baby on her hip and it's getting harder and harder to keep up the 'looking at him with adoring eyes' act because he's just a massive pain in her ass. 

I hope Boob and J'Chelle are pleased they created this mess for their own daughter with their ridiculous courtship nonsense. 

[nausicaa]

I feel for Ben and Jessa too. To me their relationship is Textbook Case #1 in why you don't marry someone just because you're physically/sexually attracted to them. But how were they supposed to know that? Jessa at least wasn't even allowed to be friends with guys, let alone date. And sexual attraction can be strong and make even smart people do some dumb things. In their social circle, quick courtships and engagements get you applause and deep conversations are discouraged.

So the lesson most of us learned in our late teenage years, with nothing on the line, they have to learn by being with someone they don't like every day for the rest of their lives. (Except I don't think it will last much longer. Ben wasn't raised in the Kool-Aid and his misery is truly palpable. Dude is going to make a break for it.)

[ksgranola1]

I thought Ben was raised in the Name of Gothard; home school & all. No? I am a little confused by his underage sister living w/a guy & wearing a bikini & no one does anything about it.

Didn't either of the boys have a choice about when they were going to have their first kid? Did JB tell them this was mandatory? Seems like neither of them got a choice. JB wants them to "recreate themselves" in what he views to be the perfect image & NONE of these kids can see thru that?

Boggles the mind.

[2manyKidzzz]

16 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

I thought Ben was raised in the Name of Gothard; home school & all. No? I am a little confused by his underage sister living w/a guy & wearing a bikini & no one does anything about it.

Didn't either of the boys have a choice about when they were going to have their first kid? Did JB tell them this was mandatory? Seems like neither of them got a choice. JB wants them to "recreate themselves" in what he views to be the perfect image & NONE of these kids can see thru that?

Boggles the mind.

Is this the Jessica Seewald who is living with a guy? I am shocked and defrauded I think at that. 

Ben seems to me to be regressing, but I always thought he just sounded strange ....the way he speaks that is.