Jill and Jessa Counting On - Part 4

[chris]

 

Quote

Damn, I really am shocked. The show stayed very stable, gaining only 4000 viewers, and went up 2 slots to #17.

[Chickenbutt]

1 hour ago, nst said:

it's a storyline - it has already ended - 

you don't see any more pictures do you

 

Man, I have got to get more cynical just to keep up.

[Famy values]

On April 4, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Artemesia said:

IMO I think TLC knew and didn't care because they figured it wouldn't come out. Then when it was made public they pretended to be surprised and cancelled the show. IMO, JB probably said something like, "But you knew all along. I'm going to let the public know that you knew." And then TLC said something like, "Wait, maybe we can work something out ..." Counting on keeping secrets ...

I really hope that TLC " Kate Gosselins" the Duggars!  I'm sure they have a gold mine to pick from! 

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

I know that the Duggars have some serious issues regarding bias and racism, but has anything ever been said about POC? The reason I wondered is because of Ben and this rapping business. Would JB and Michelle have an issue because Flame is a POC?

The Duggars have interacted with POC on the show before and didn't faint or freak out, so I don't think they would have an issue with Ben having a friend and/or business partner who is black. That's a pretty "safe" level of contact even for people who are quite prejudiced (whether or not that includes the Duggars,) and I certainly don't think the Duggars are the KKK or anything.

I do wonder how they would feel about a closer relationship than an acquaintance, though. The Duggars' inner circle seems very, very white. I wonder how they would react if, say, one of their children wanted to court with an African American or they had a non-white adopted grandchild, etc.

I'm not saying the Duggars are racist in any active way - I don't know if they are or not - but their life is very lacking in diversity and Jim Bob and Michelle seem to be passively fine with living in a completely white world.

[Jinder Roles]

57 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The Duggars have interacted with POC on the show before and didn't faint or freak out, so I don't think they would have an issue with Ben having a friend and/or business partner who is black. That's a pretty "safe" level of contact even for people who are quite prejudiced (whether or not that includes the Duggars,) and I certainly don't think the Duggars are the KKK or anything.

I do wonder how they would feel about a closer relationship than an acquaintance, though. The Duggars' inner circle seems very, very white. I wonder how they would react if, say, one of their children wanted to court with an African American or they had a non-white adopted grandchild, etc.

I'm not saying the Duggars are racist in any active way - I don't know if they are or not - but their life is very lacking in diversity and Jim Bob and Michelle seem to be passively fine with living in a completely white world.

I agree! The Duggars - like a lot of other white people - have passively racist tendencies. There is a shocking lack of diversity in their inner circles and they probably subscribe to the whole colour-blindness ideology (which is a form of racism). They're also incredibly socially-unaware and (at least Boob is)  culturally insensitive. Ben's video discussing racism with Flame shows that he doesn't understand that racism is a lot more than personal bias. The whole White Saviour complex that comes out when the go to Cintral America is also really annoying.

[foreign fundie]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

 The Duggars' inner circle seems very, very white.

.....

I'm not saying the Duggars are racist in any active way - I don't know if they are or not - but their life is very lacking in diversity and Jim Bob and Michelle seem to be passively fine with living in a completely white world.

Probably black people are just too realistic to fall in the trap of Gothardism. The whites want to go back to the imagined little house on the prairy wholesomeness. That time wasn't much fun for Afro-Americans. They may look to the future rather than to the past to find a better life.

However, I think a hypothetical black quiverful family would be welcomed with open arms, as a sign that Gothard is for everyone. I think the Duggars would love to be seen with them, and would condecendingly show them off. And if they were solid cool aid drinkers, I think JB&M would not oppose courtships between the kids. Imagine the ratings you would get with all the precious little mixed race blessings they would produce. And the endless story lines. It would probably fully rehabilitate the Duggar brand. 

But again, do black quiverfuls exist? I doubt it. If they did, some cable network would have picked them up.

[Bushes of Love]

9 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Holy crap!  I went with a friend when she had a pedicure and literally could not sit there more than 5 minutes due to the noxious fumes.  Someone should do an investigation of some of those places!  No wonder the workers are always in masks.

I love the smell of nail salons, but then again I love the smell of petrol. However, I'm a grown woman and not a tiny baby with little lungs. (I'm also a fairly heavy smoker and I vape, so I'm screwed regardless!)

[patsymae]

52 minutes ago, foreign fundie said:

Probably black people are just too realistic to fall in the trap of Gothardism. The whites want to go back to the imagined little house on the prairy wholesomeness. That time wasn't much fun for Afro-Americans. They may look to the future rather than to the past to find a better life.

However, I think a hypothetical black quiverful family would be welcomed with open arms, as a sign that Gothard is for everyone. I think the Duggars would love to be seen with them, and would condecendingly show them off. And if they were solid cool aid drinkers, I think JB&M would not oppose courtships between the kids. Imagine the ratings you would get with all the precious little mixed race blessings they would produce. And the endless story lines. It would probably fully rehabilitate the Duggar brand. 

But again, do black quiverfuls exist? I doubt it. If they did, some cable network would have picked them up.

When they went to New York didn't they hook up with a black mega family from Queens?

[nastyhobbitses]

42 minutes ago, foreign fundie said:

Probably black people are just too realistic to fall in the trap of Gothardism. The whites want to go back to the imagined little house on the prairy wholesomeness. That time wasn't much fun for Afro-Americans. They may look to the future rather than to the past to find a better life.

However, I think a hypothetical black quiverful family would be welcomed with open arms, as a sign that Gothard is for everyone. I think the Duggars would love to be seen with them, and would condecendingly show them off. And if they were solid cool aid drinkers, I think JB&M would not oppose courtships between the kids. Imagine the ratings you would get with all the precious little mixed race blessings they would produce. And the endless story lines. It would probably fully rehabilitate the Duggar brand. 

But again, do black quiverfuls exist? I doubt it. If they did, some cable network would have picked them up.

There's one black girl who seems to hang out with the Duggar and Bates girls a lot (unsure of her name, but she generally wears her hair straight and I think she's a bit looser on the rules, since I've seen photos of her in-GASP-a tank top when hanging out with Alyssa Bates) and I've seen a few black girls here and there in JTTH group photos. Not sure if they're adopted by white QFers or if their biological families are QF. In general it seems that POC are pretty rare in ATI/IBLP, though the organization seems to try to reach out to them, especially to Asians and Latinos.

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

I know that the Duggars have some serious issues regarding bias and racism, but has anything ever been said about POC? The reason I wondered is because of Ben and this rapping business. Would JB and Michelle have an issue because Flame is a POC?

They've never said anything publicly--not even they are that stupid--but the couple of times they've been surrounded by black people, the disdain on their faces, especially Anna's, is palpable. The Ethiopian restaurant and the time they all went to the Black mega church are the two incidents I'm thinking of.

I think the Duggars are like a lot of racists in that their racism is often passive and coded. They don't have a problem with POC per se, just with a lot of the cultural markers associated with POC. So Flame being a black man might not be the problem, but the rapping most definitely is. As long as POC act like the Duggars want them to act, say the "right" things, don't point out when they something offensive, don't annoy them by bringing up racists policies and police brutality, then sure, the Duggars are totally cool with them.

[paulypepper]

3 hours ago, Bushes of Love said:

I love the smell of nail salons, but then again I love the smell of petrol. However, I'm a grown woman and not a tiny baby with little lungs. (I'm also a fairly heavy smoker and I vape, so I'm screwed regardless!)

Along with the smells you mention, I love the smell of those big fat Sharpies too...mmm but hey I'm a child born on the cusp of the 60's

[Audrey2]

4 minutes ago, paulypepper said:

Along with the smells you mention, I love the smell of those big fat Sharpies too...mmm but hey I'm a child born on the cusp of the 60's

As long as we are talking smells, how many others remember putting freshly mimeographed papers up to your nose and inhaling deeply in school? 

[Ungodly Grandma]

15 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

As long as we are talking smells, how many others remember putting freshly mimeographed papers up to your nose and inhaling deeply in school? 

And they were warm. Loved it.

[paulypepper]

24 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

As long as we are talking smells, how many others remember putting freshly mimeographed papers up to your nose and inhaling deeply in school? 

OMG YESSSS! I can still smell them to this day!!! That is why I never had a problem taking a test..didn't care if I had the right answers, my face was always buried in the papers.

[anotherone]

10 hours ago, Lillymuffin said:

This may be the only time I ever say this, but I think they have the right idea about coed showers. Not to eliminate any awkwardness, because why are you inviting people you feel awkward around, but because baby showers (and bridal showers) are just so freaking boring! 

I've been to at least a dozen of each over the last five years and they're just painful. Dressing up, sitting in a church social hall or some relative's living room, playing awful games, and balancing a plate of frankly mediocre party food on one's lap--woo hoo. If the presence of men livens that up, because let's face it, what man would do that?--I'm in favor. 

Well then it's not the gender, it's the traditions.  I was an "older" mom so my friends and co-workers felt a lot more at ease breaking traditions.  We had a party with presents at a restaurant and actually ended up at a bar later on.  They liked the bar and I was fine with lemonade, so it worked out fine and everyone had fun.  I think the showers on the Duggar show were still boring, mixed gender or not.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

They've never said anything publicly--not even they are that stupid--but the couple of times they've been surrounded by black people, the disdain on their faces, especially Anna's, is palpable. The Ethiopian restaurant and the time they all went to the Black mega church are the two incidents I'm thinking of.

I think the Duggars are like a lot of racists in that their racism is often passive and coded. They don't have a problem with POC per se, just with a lot of the cultural markers associated with POC. So Flame being a black man might not be the problem, but the rapping most definitely is. As long as POC act like the Duggars want them to act, say the "right" things, don't point out when they something offensive, don't annoy them by bringing up racists policies and police brutality, then sure, the Duggars are totally cool with them.

I've always been suspicious of the fact that JB went to a "Christian school," since such institutions were used as "segregation academies" to get around school desegregation. Prior to the 1950s, private Protestant schools were rare in the South, other than those of the prep school variety, because white Protestant fundamentalists controlled most of the school boards and they could impose their will in the schools. They looked down on Catholic schools because it seemed to be a tool of Catholics to avoid assimilation (ie becoming Protestant). However, when Brown V. Board of Education happened, "Christian schools" suddenly started popping up that just happened to be whites only and they couldn't be desegregated because "religious freedom." Jerry Falwell got his start in politics running a segregation academy and preaching against black civil rights, but complained that black ministers like MLK were inappropriately mixing politics in religion in a famous sermon he gave called "Ministers and Marchers." Given how much politicking Falwell would do in his lifetime, it was more than a little hypocritical for him to complain that black ministers were the ones politicizing everything. In any case, given that the Duggars didn't have much money at the time, the fact that they (or at least Grandma Mary) would insist on "Christian school" for JB could say something about the racial politics of the time. I mean, we all know the Duggars aren't interested in education, so I doubt he was sent there with the hopes he'd go to college.

In terms of what the Duggars believe about POC, I don't think they sit around actively disliking them, but they are uncomfortable around people who aren't 100 percent like them. The whole thing about music with a strong beat being "ungodly" is code for "black music is ungodly," a meme that has been around since the days of ragtime. This is why I wonder how successful the Dullards will be as missionaries, since they are not culturally sensitive and seem to think that being a good Christian means turning POC into conservative white Amerocans even down to dress standards and musical choices.

We also know that the Duggars support David Barton's Wallbuilders which is a reality free version of history. Given that people of Barton's ilk tend to downplay slavery or recast it as a "blessing" for black people because it allowed them to become Christian. Given how condescending the Duggars are to the already Christian (but the wrong kind) people in El Salvador, I could see them holding this belief. I would be surprised if the Duggars didn't think the Civil War was the "War of Northern Aggression" or that Robert E. Lee wasn't a great Christian. To the extent that they know anything about black history, they probably view it through a Lost Cause/Dunning School lens that states that slavery wasn't so bad and black people are incapable of exercising political rights. I suspect they support the Confederate flag but are smart enough not to display it, especially after people complained about the Bateses' Klan founder photo. As other people have noted, I doubt the Duggars care about police brutality or mass incarceration, which they probably thing as people getting what they deserve, although they may see the latter as a chance to "minister" to  a captive audience.

[gustava]

4 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

We also know that the Duggars support David Barton's Wallbuilders which is a reality free version of history.

Didn't know this.  Thanks for the info.

[Mothership]

8 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I agree! The Duggars - like a lot of other white people - have passively racist tendencies. There is a shocking lack of diversity in their inner circles and they probably subscribe to the whole colour-blindness ideology (which is a form of racism). They're also incredibly socially-unaware and (at least Boob is)  culturally insensitive. Ben's video discussing racism with Flame shows that he doesn't understand that racism is a lot more than personal bias. The whole White Saviour complex that comes out when the go to Cintral America is also really annoying.

@Jinder Roles  First let me say that I love your screen name.

Your second post and you nailed it!  The Duggar's  theology is very much one of prosperity--your rewards (a TLC show, a TTH, trips to Cintral America) is proof that good favors what you do.  Of course the reverse of that is those who haven't been rewarded have not been favored e.g. immigrants, slaves,  anyone living in poverty.  Okay, I know this is a simplified version, but do the Duggars know anything beyond a simple version?

And  we could start a whole thread just dedicated to their lack of cultural sensitivity--which happens anytime they travel outside of their compound.  They don't even need a passport to be culturally insensitive.  "Cintral America is dangerous and they don't speak English"

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

The Duggars don't bother with worrying about such problems as racism in society, domestic violence, education (obviously!), the environment etc. because they see everything through the lens of the "Kingdom focus."  If everyone would just believe like they do- then all those problems would auto-magically fade away.  If they are ever asked a question about any social issues- they just say that people need to turn their hearts towards Jesus.  

They are proselityzers who feel all they have to do is shout to the unwashed masses about Jesus but do very little in way of LIVING like Jesus.....

[Buzzard]

11 hours ago, Hiddenomaha said:

 

Damn, I really am shocked. The show stayed very stable, gaining only 4000 viewers, and went up 2 slots to #17.

I'm not surprised they're still holding steady at 1 million or so.  I'd say half of the eyeballs are hate watching and the other half isnt really who advertisers are aiming at.  I still think they're done.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I think next week's ratings could be good for them, too, because it's about Bin's rapping. And, well, enough said. That's a shitshow I'm going to watch.

[Georgiana]

13 hours ago, Withagrainofsalt said:

That makes perfect sense. I didn't start reading on Duggar drama until after Amy was fired/canceled. Thank you for the information. 

Are we sure it was Amy selling Duggar details to the tabloids? I thought there were a couple of sources but I could be wrong.

We can only speculate as to the anonymous sources.  However, Amy and her husband have been making some critical comments and using the controversy to drum up any sort of attention towards them that they can get.  Even if Amy is not the "inside source" may tabloids claim, the things she has said under her own name in People and social media etc. would be enough to make me not trust her were I in the spotlight.  

[Ungodly Grandma]

23 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

I think next week's ratings could be good for them, too, because it's about Bin's rapping. And, well, enough said. That's a shitshow I'm going to watch.

Hell I might even watch that one. Wednesday should be a good snark day!

[Eternalbluepearl]

28 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

That's a shitshow I'm going to watch.

TLC's new slogan right there. 

[just...sare]

18 hours ago, Bushes of Love said:

(snip)

Speaking of Jill, it kind of threw me that when DQ hugged her she wasn't letting go. Proof that DQ has a tiny maternal bone in her body.

(snip)

After watching this (incredibly boring) episode yesterday morning, one of the very few take-aways I had was this scene. For all that she's a daddy's girl, this was the most genuine-looking emotion I've seen Jill display since her wedding. That hug with her eyes closed and her arms wrapped around Michelle really seemed real. And we know none of them are that good at acting.

 

(Obviously Michelle is still a shitty mother and this doesn't mean anything. But it was nice to see some actual real emotion for even a brief second out of one of the j'slaves).

 

The other thing that made me laugh in an unintentional, I can't believe how stupid this is, way, was... TLC happened to have a film crew at the wrong house? They weren't waiting over at Holly's actual house, wondering where the hell Joy and Sierra had got to? So...not so much with an awkward accident, then, is it?