Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[nastyhobbitses]

29 minutes ago, Cerealgirl said:

Has anyone wondered about Josh's mental state since the special aired? Not that the shame isn't TOTALLY deserved. But seeing how badly the siblings were affected had to be rough. It normally would be handled privately in therapy. But then to add the public aspect of it could make someone that is depressed potentially be suicidal. Just curious if anyone else wondered the same.

Wondered, but can't say I especially empathize or care at this point. Yes, he's very much a victim of Michelle and Jim Bob's shit parenting, but he only (half-assedly) owned up to his two major transgressions when it was clear that Daddy couldn't pay the media to shut up or call in some favors, and then he hid behind his family/victims while they explained away his behavior. I wouldn't wish death upon him, I think that would be horrible for his family, but I just can't muster up any empathy for him anymore. Let him feel that shame and see the mess he's made. Maybe he'll finally grow up and clean up his mess for once.

[Cerealgirl]

@nastyhobbitses Exactly.

[Drala]

It's just a feeling I have, but I think Josh is oblivious to what others think or say about him.  I think he probably has zero insight, which means he's incapable of feeling shame. The main thing he thinks about is how to manipulate the people around him to his advatage by telling them what they want to hear.     

[BackseatMom]

I have to agree - we can pity his upbringing without excusing his present behaviors. He knows it is wrong, he just doesn't care.

[Cerealgirl]

It's just a feeling I have, but I think Josh is oblivious to what others think or say about him.  I think he probably has zero insight, which means he's incapable of feeling shame. The main thing he thinks about is how to manipulate the people around him to his advatage by telling them what they want to hear.     

I believe that's the definition of a sociopath.

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, Cerealgirl said:

Has anyone wondered about Josh's mental state since the special aired? Not that the shame isn't TOTALLY deserved. But seeing how badly the siblings were affected had to be rough. It normally would be handled privately in therapy. But then to add the public aspect of it could make someone that is depressed potentially be suicidal. Just curious if anyone else wondered the same.

If he is at RU I doubt they allowed him to watch it. They aren't supposed to watch TV, are they?

[Cerealgirl]

@emcaitlyn No idea. But if he had a phone or internet access he could.

[colors_outside15]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 7:31 PM, amandaaries said:

I keep thinking of her interview clip, where she says "if [she] went with [her] feelings, [she'd] turn a mess into a disaster."  It sums up so much for her -- trained to deny her feelings, and still doing the same.  Continuing to do as others say, instead of thinking for herself.  And the "turn a mess into a disaster" sounds like some platitude that's been shared with her as "wise words" that she's now repeating ad infinitum ...

 While I wish that Anna would leave, I think it will be up to Josh to break things off.  If the family doesn't truly welcome him back, if he sees naught but constant shame in his future, if he feels powerless enough, I suspect he might try to get away and really live. Anna's brainwashing is thorough; she's probably blaming herself a lot for this debacle, though it's entirely his fault.  She doesn't seem to really recognize or respect her feelings, and no one will take her to real therapy to understand that feelings are okay and valuable.  

I don't think Josh respects her (I hate his rolling eyes when she speaks, as wtffundiefamilies.tumblr's screengrabs show), but I don't think he beats her, either, and it would take quite a bit more abuse to get her motivated to get out of there.  She's used to seeing women's feelings ignored, overlooked, or under valued, and that's not sufficient to get anyone excused from her marriage vows.  Another scandal might get her in motion, but for now, if they part, my money's on Josh being the one walking, not Anna.  Even then, it'd take another several months or years.  Duggar damage control is in full effect right now.

You stated that so well! Thank you for putting many of my thoughts into words for me! :-)
One thing that stood out to me was that I honestly believe Anna bought into the idea that being on TV was FOR - EXCLUSIVELY FOR - promoting religion. Yes, she has fully drunk the Kool-Aid and is a full fledged fundie, but when she tears up about having let down the Christian community, I believe this is how she feels. I don't think she knows that many people know she's fundie/quiverfull - I truly believe she thinks she is representing a Christian woman, a Christian marriage, and Christian beliefs. When she broke down over letting down an entire religious group ... I honestly, for the first time, wanted to give her a hug. My understanding is that quiverfull at least starts out as Christian/they use a bible and do believe in Jesus (in addition to other incredibly harmful, toxic things, which I despise). However, Anna strove to be an example - to be a good Christian wife for her "little" family, for the Keller family, for the Duggar family, and for everyone else watching - who she thinks she helps. It breaks my heart to know that she has done NOTHING WRONG, and yet believes she has let down a part of her religion. When her voice cracked and her eyes were misty over what she might perceive could "lead people away from Jesus/Christianity etc." - I wanted to give her a warm hug and then shake her awake and tell her that she is Christian and never, ever broke her vows to anyone. I want her to know she can be quiverfull if she wants, or she can be "just a" Christian. I want her to know she hasn't let the country/world down by having a "bad Christian" marriage. What a huge burden. A brand new baby, the deepest betrayal possible, and the thought that SHE is leading people away from what she believes is right. I disagree with everything she stands for, but that thought and that burden is not hers to carry. Someone help that brainwashed, well-intentioned woman before she is dragged through more pain! She birthed two children while her husband was cheating on her - one is on TV forever. No - No I do not agree with Anna - but for her and her children, I wish someone would and could help!

[Drala]

10 hours ago, Cerealgirl said:

I believe that's the definition of a sociopath.

I'm very reluctant to label people, and I haven't made nearly enough observation of Josh's behavior to really say it..  There's just this gut feeling I have about the way Anna is being played and the tune she's singing in interviews. Or Josh letting his family take the heat by speaking publicly about their pain and disappointment, while he hides and refuses to say anything. While he hides, denies, and admits nothing unless he's confronted by his father..  Also, watching Joy speak about her reality, then realizing how very young she was at the time of her abuse and knowing it would have taken a 14-year-old without a conscience to mess with her in that way. 

[Four is Enough]

I'm relatively sure that Josh's reaction to the show was fury. HE is the firstborn. HE is the leader. HOW DARE THEY criticize him. Put me in the "I think Josh has no insight whatsoever; neither does he care about anyone save himself" camp. I do believe he will tell the people at RU what they want to hear to consider him "rehabilitated"; still, I believe he is as determined as ever to have his own way on his own terms. He will continue  to do so.

[ksgranola1]

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Hey, I'm a Christian and I wouldn't think twice about kicked the old man to the curb if he did what Josh did. Hang the "Christian community." Did you see the clip on the news page of anna playing w/the kids on a grown-up bed? Prob. Jessa's. But it looks like it's in the prayer closet; a bit small. At least she isn't in the "Dormatory."

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I'm relatively sure that Josh's reaction to the show was fury. HE is the firstborn. HE is the leader. HOW DARE THEY criticize him. Put me in the "I think Josh has no insight whatsoever; neither does he care about anyone save himself" camp. I do believe he will tell the people at RU what they want to hear to consider him "rehabilitated"; still, I believe he is as determined as ever to have his own way on his own terms. He will continue  to do so.

I'd say fury with a bit of shock thrown in.  I believe Josh and his siblings have learned well, over the past 10+ years in the media eye, how to ignore or brush aside any negativity coming in from outside.  Smile, present a united front, and daddy will take care of business.  This time the negativity has made it to the inside, and the united front is against him.  He can't ignore it. 

Reality TV has met reality.

[ksgranola1]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/josh-duggar-wife-speaks-out-cheating-scandal_5671cfdde4b0dfd4bcc05ea7

Here's the interview. Anna was struggling to get thru. Seems it's still pretty raw for her even after all these months. I don't want to put words in her mouth but I think when she said she had to rely in her faith to keep a problem from turning into a disaster. I suspect if she hadn't had her "faith", she would have kicked him to the curb right then. And just as we had suspected, she has dug deeper into the fundie life that caused all this.

[socalrules]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I'm relatively sure that Josh's reaction to the show was fury. HE is the firstborn. HE is the leader. HOW DARE THEY criticize him. Put me in the "I think Josh has no insight whatsoever; neither does he care about anyone save himself" camp. I do believe he will tell the people at RU what they want to hear to consider him "rehabilitated"; still, I believe he is as determined as ever to have his own way on his own terms. He will continue  to do so.

I thought about this too. Wouldn't this just push him farther away from their way of life? It's interesting that women are treated like crap in their way of life and now they are sort of celebrating treating a man in their world like crap. Yet, they expect him to come back from "rehab" a Godly Christian man who will fall right back in line with the flock. Other than maybe getting some money to live on from his parents, what is the upside for him to go back to the fold? 

[FlamingFundie]

Even with the reports that he's bailed on rehab and seeing another woman, I think he will return to Duggarland for a short time, then make a very quiet exit out the back door. His family will pray for him but financially cut him off and wish him the best, and they won't say a word about him publically ever again, a-la the Kellers.

The REAL question will be if Anna follows her husband too.

[KSmom]

So no big news that JB and Michelle are disgusting people and horrible parents... But, it appears from that video that Anna was just moved into the girls room. I guess, at least she got a hanging rack and doesn't have to share clothes from the family closet.

You would think with all their money, extra houses, guest house she could have at least a room for her and her children. After all, she and her kids are the real victims here.

They are horrible people, that is all.

[Cerealgirl]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said: I'm relatively sure that Josh's reaction to the show was fury. HE is the firstborn. HE is the leader. HOW DARE THEY criticize him. Put me in the "I think Josh has no insight whatsoever; neither does he care about anyone save himself" camp. I do believe he will tell the people at RU what they want to hear to consider him "rehabilitated"; still, I believe he is as determined as ever to have his own way on his own terms. He will continue  to do so.

I thought about this too. Wouldn't this just push him farther away from their way of life? It's interesting that women are treated like crap in their way of life and now they are sort of celebrating treating a man in their world like crap. Yet, they expect him to come back from "rehab" a Godly Christian man who will fall right back in line with the flock. Other than maybe getting some money to live on from his parents, what is the upside for him to go back to the fold? 

Because he's a pussy and has nothing and is nothing outside of his family.

[ksgranola1]

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I don't know why that QUOTE box pops up on all my posts when I'm not quoting.

That's not the girls' room. It's a little corner room. I imagine the 3 older M's are in w/the other kids.

I wonder if any of the older kids ever went to JB & said, "I want my own room!"

[AmazonGrace]

I don't think it came as news to Josh that his family is mad at him. But the specials probably made it even harder to return to the flock and  save face, after being publicly told off by your little siblings. (And depending on what Anna has to say, maybe your wife?) He's gotten used to everyone making his excuses for him, maybe it will do him some good.

Who is reporting that he is seeing some other woman?

 

 

 

[halcionne]

33 minutes ago, Cerealgirl said:

Because he's a pussy and has nothing and is nothing outside of his family.

Pussies are nice and warm and sensitive. Josh is none of those things. 

[Cerealgirl]

@halcionne True

[Coconut Flan]

There is no little corner room in the upstairs of the Duggar house.  There two sort of alcoves in the girls' room and that is one of them and that is Jana's bed.  Anna could have been visiting and they decided to film in that room though.

[RosyDaisy]

Whatever shame (public or private) Josh got, he deserved. I have zero sympathy for child molesters. What bothers me is more attention is given to his adultery and porn addiction while the molestations are being sugar-coated.

[Feberin]

Just now, RosyDaisy said:

Whatever shame (public or private) Josh got, he deserved. I have zero sympathy for child molesters. What bothers me is more attention is given to his adultery and porn addiction while the molestations are being sugar-coated.

I think part of the reason that his siblings are so upset about the adultery is that they're allowed to be upset about it.  I'm sure even though he's not on air Jim Bob is still watching the filming and carefully monitoring what is being said.  Making sure that everyone repeats the party line that the molestation was a long time ago and they've completely moved on from it.  But I think they're allowed to be outraged about the adultery so they're channeling their feelings about the molestation into the feelings about his adultery.  

[KSmom]

12 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

There is no little corner room in the upstairs of the Duggar house.  There two sort of alcoves in the girls' room and that is one of them and that is Jana's bed.  Anna could have been visiting and they decided to film in that room though.

That is possible, but the hanging rack is what made me think that is where she is staying. And they would totally move Jana to another bed.