Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[OodOnTheLoo]

On December 17, 2015 at 9:58 AM, socalrules said:

I thought about this too. Wouldn't this just push him farther away from their way of life? It's interesting that women are treated like crap in their way of life and now they are sort of celebrating treating a man in their world like crap. Yet, they expect him to come back from "rehab" a Godly Christian man who will fall right back in line with the flock. Other than maybe getting some money to live on from his parents, what is the upside for him to go back to the fold? 

The upside is that he doesn't walk away from everyone and everything he knows.  Josh is, at most,  a joke outside of fundy world.  Many people don't even know who he is and with no education or practical job experience he couldn't find a job good enough for his giant ego.

He will go back to the "comfort" of the fold.  He will do as he has always done, pretend to be what Daddy wants him to be; humbled, forgiven, quoting scripture every other sentence. I said it before though, that ego will have to rage somewhere.  I worry for the safety of Anna and kids.

[quiversR4hunting]

I don't think this has been posted yet: http://www.people.com/article/josh-duggar-kids-miss-him-christmas

Yeah, don't feel sorry for josh. I do feel sorry for the kids, they are too young to understand.

[MoonFace]

Ok - so if a woman is widowed (or her husband leaves her permanently) does she have to go back to her family or other male dominated situation? 

[halcionne]

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

That JB wouldn't even allow her to stay in the guest house (not the shed, but the first guest house they built for Josh and Anna's stays when they visited from DC), that is still on the back 40, speaks volumes. They would still be close enough for her kids to run across a patio to play with their uncles and aunts. That  JB didn't allow this, forcing Anna into Jana's bed with her clothes (and those of the kids) hung up next to her sleeping space speaks volumes about how she is really viewed by the guy paying the bills. 

I wish Anna would have taken Daniel up on his offer way back when. She could have chosen to be out of the media circus by going private, but what seems to be a financial decision to stay with the Duggars just drags her back into the public eye. And looking at that interview, that's not a place she really needs to be at this time. 

Was this guest house discussed on FJ? Is there footage of it in any episode? I've been trying to get more information* on it for quite some time, but my google-fu never gets me anywhere. I seem to remember reading here about Tim and Franicia White staying in a Duggar guest house at one point, but that didn't help my search. Any tips or keywords to point me in the right direction would be appreciated.

*I haven't watched the show in years. It didn't even dawn on me that the guest house may have appeared there, lol.

[MoonFace]

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

That JB wouldn't even allow her to stay in the guest house (not the shed, but the first guest house they built for Josh and Anna's stays when they visited from DC), that is still on the back 40, speaks volumes. They would still be close enough for her kids to run across a patio to play with their uncles and aunts. That  JB didn't allow this, forcing Anna into Jana's bed with her clothes (and those of the kids) hung up next to her sleeping space speaks volumes about how she is really viewed by the guy paying the bills. 

I wish Anna would have taken Daniel up on his offer way back when. She could have chosen to be out of the media circus by going private, but what seems to be a financial decision to stay with the Duggars just drags her back into the public eye. And looking at that interview, that's not a place she really needs to be at this time. 

But if JOSH is being sued and has no assets, JB wouldn't be held responsible for the debts.

Like you I wish Anna had gone with her brother and had a chance to make some decisions. 

And where the hell are HER parents? 

[LilMissMetaphor]

17 hours ago, MoonFace said:

That business of her staying with the girls in their room as if she needed to be watched bugs the crap out of me. 

She was capable of managing a home on her own while her husband was on business trips - and other overnight 'stays'.    Why couldn't she have moved in to Jill and Dingdong's empty house since they're gone on their 'mission'.   JB could have let Jana or Jinger go over and be her helper accountability person and report her actions.  

This is speculation again (on FJ, I know, crazy.)  But really, we don't know that she's in the girls' room against her will or for observational purposes.  Probably she wants to be there.  It's not popular opinion, I gather, but if I had four little kids and no outside help I'd much rather move in with a bunch of babysitters than an empty house where I wouldn't get to take a shit without bringing them all in the bathroom with me.  Granted, Anna probably doesn't get much privacy at the Duggar house but again, with four little kids, it's not like she'd have much privacy anyway.

 

[nokidsmom]

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

I wish Anna would have taken Daniel up on his offer way back when. She could have chosen to be out of the media circus by going private, but what seems to be a financial decision to stay with the Duggars just drags her back into the public eye. And looking at that interview, that's not a place she really needs to be at this time. 

I personally wish that Anna had taken up her brother's offer as well.  Not just that I personally think she needs to kick her scumbag husband to the curb, but also for reasons of privacy.  She was never going to get privacy by being with her in laws, people who are desperately trying to keep their main source of income going and that's by pimping out every.damn.thing.that.happens.to.them.  Being in the public eye only adds to her considerable stress even if it brings in $$$.

That said, I do get why she might stick with her in-laws between financial reasons, emotional support (yes, I do think she's getting that), help with her kids and also as I posted above, she does want to remain married to Josh and may see being with his family as insurance that Josh will return to the fold all fixed and ready to be the husband she wants him to be.  Never mind the fact that he probably never was and it's no guarantee that he will achieve it (he won't) but right now, Anna is pegging her hopes that she can go back to the way things were, as she sees it.

[OodOnTheLoo]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

But if JOSH is being sued and has no assets, JB wouldn't be held responsible for the debts.

 

You can bet your sweet bippy JB will be paying off Danica so the case never goes to court and keeps Josh off the stand, under oath.

 

[usedbicycle]

11 hours ago, jinseng said:

She is staying in the girls room because while Josh is away, she needs to be 'under authority'. If you cant be under authority of your husband, you are handed to the father (like Jana). If she just went and lived in one of the rentals with her kids, they would be exposed to the firey darts of satan. 

Yes, exactly. She is convinced she needs to be under a male "umbrella of protection" at all times or she'll be fresh bait for all kinds of demons, making the situation worse than it already is. She can't question that religious principle or any other "Basic Life Principle", because they are all biblical, so that would show lack of faith, and lack of faith comes from Satan. See the circle-argument here? 

So Anna, in her own words, is "clinging to her faith" instead of "listening to her emotions" and intuition in order to avoid disaster. In what world does listening to your own heart and conscience lead to "disaster"?

The fear-mongering, the mental manipulation, and the lack of personal thought in this cult is beyond heartbreaking... I admit I'm still interested in watching the trainwreck of a show from a psychological perspective. I just wish there was a "Here's how you can help" segment at the end, with a fund to send a Licensed Therapist with a specialty in religious abuse to the compound.

 

[EmCatlyn]

11 hours ago, marmalade said:

That JB wouldn't even allow her to stay in the guest house (not the shed, but the first guest house they built for Josh and Anna's stays when they visited from DC), that is still on the back 40, speaks volumes. They would still be close enough for her kids to run across a patio to play with their uncles and aunts. That  JB didn't allow this, forcing Anna into Jana's bed with her clothes (and those of the kids) hung up next to her sleeping space speaks volumes about how she is really viewed by the guy paying the bills. 

I wish Anna would have taken Daniel up on his offer way back when. She could have chosen to be out of the media circus by going private, but what seems to be a financial decision to stay with the Duggars just drags her back into the public eye. And looking at that interview, that's not a place she really needs to be at this time. 

I think Anna would have been better off in the long run if she had taken her brother's offer of help and left Josh.  But Anna doesn't think so.  She told her brother she would stay with Josh and she doesn't seem to have wavered.

As far as Jim Bob not "allowing" Anna to stay at the guest house, this presupposes that she wanted or asked for the guest house and he turned her down.  We know no such thing.  

For all we know, there is someone else in the guest house.  Aren't there some Duggar hanger-ons in some of the caroling pictures who seem to be visitors?   

Or maybe the guest house is full of stuff that Jill and Derrick left behind which would make it difficult for Anna and the kids to settle in.

In any case, the worst that JB can be accused of is not offering the guest house.  He has the right to offer or not.  If I invite my guests to sit with me in the family room with the TV, I am not "forbidding" them to choose to sit alone in the quieter library or the kitchen or, for that matter, the patio outside. But it is assumed that the guest will go where the host directs.

By the way, does anyone know  where Tabitha Paine is  sleeping?  Is she in the girls' room also or did they carve some space for her elsewhere?  I doubt she would get the guest house, single woman that she is.

[ksgranola1]

Quote

 

Maybe that's why he didn't suggest it; Woman alone in a house w/4 children would be "unprotected" in his eyes, weak little things that we are.

[ljohnson2006]

My heart breaks for the M kids. They're the innocent victims in this mess. I feel no sympathy for Anna. She has the choice to leave Smugs, and do what's best for herself, and her kids, but she's going to choose to stay with him, and bring more innocent kids into this mess.

[vienna]

I also believe that Anna might have chosen to be among other people instead of being alone in a bedroom where she could/would cry a lo more than she is supposed to since you always have to act better than you feel.

Overall anna (and in essence the kids) is the key on how the family will move on. I think a lot of siblings have a hard time forgiving him. But they will act on it much better because of anna and the kids. Making Josh life hard is hurting anna in their mindset.  So Anna, restoring the marriage will be THE motivation for forging Josh even though most of them don't feel like it. But having to act and think and feel different from what you actually feel is by far not new for them.

Without Anna; forgiving Josh would not happen. Or at least not the way it will happen now.

[MakeItSo]

Does Anna really have a choice though? (yes, she does. You always have a choice.) But I'm still wondering...she doesn't even have a basic education. How would she provide for her kids if she left the TTH and Smuggar and where would she go? Yes, there are resources for women in her situation but I don't think she knows about them, nor has access to them. This is why you keep your womanfolk in check and only teach them how to cook, clean, and sew. Keeps them close to your home and under your wing. This way they won't even be able to see all their actual options. *gag*

Reminds me of a documentary we watched in one of my classes a couple of semesters ago on the Amish and rumspringa. About how even if you give the kids the choice to leave the Amish lifestyle (and with that completely give up their family etc), it's not fair to them because they haven't been equipped with the right tools to make it in society. This is why many return to their families and/or fail/end up doing drugs etc. I need to watch more documentaries/do more reading about this but I found it interesting and I definitely see some parallels here...except that the Duggarlings really don't seem to even get a choice.

 

(sorry this got kind of long)

[MyMilkshake]

I doubt that Anna's parents offered her and the kids a place to stay. Pa Keller seems to be of the mindset that there's a transfer of ownership when a daughter marries. Anna is now property of Josh and so it is Josh's family taking her in while he "recovers ".
If JB offers Anna a more private place for her and the kids she might settle into the idea of being alone. Can't have that!  But stick her in dorm-land and it's almost guaranteed that she'll miss having a home base for herself and the kids.

[MakeItSo]

On 12/18/2015 at 0:50 PM, GeoBQn said:

When someone uses "pussy" as an insult, I think of something I heard once.

"You are not a pussy.  Pussies are strong and bring life into this world.  You, sir, are a ball sack."

I read recently that "pussy" as an insult comes from pusillanimous, which means showing a lack of courage or determination; timid. 

[EmmieJ]

6 hours ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

This is speculation again (on FJ, I know, crazy.)  But really, we don't know that she's in the girls' room against her will or for observational purposes.  Probably she wants to be there.  It's not popular opinion, I gather, but if I had four little kids and no outside help I'd much rather move in with a bunch of babysitters than an empty house where I wouldn't get to take a shit without bringing them all in the bathroom with me.  Granted, Anna probably doesn't get much privacy at the Duggar house but again, with four little kids, it's not like she'd have much privacy anyway.

 

Anna has never lived on her own or been in charge of her life.  It's possible that the idea of just she and the kids living in their own house for months is a scary thought to her. 

[luv2laugh]

Anna is hopelessly brainwashed. There's an article in People and the source has been right consistenly. I think it's Amy. Anna said that visiting Josh was the best three days of HER LIFE... There's no hope for Anna.
According to the source, Anna took youngest daughter Meredith Grace to see her dad a month ago, with Josh's younger brother John-David, a pilot, flying them out on the family's private plane to the faith-based rehab center in Illinois. 

"She said, 'It was the best three days of my life,' says the source. The young mother was similarly positive on the most recent episode of Counting On, saying in an on-camera interview that her "prayer and hope is for our marriage to be restored." 

[JenniferJuniper]

5 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Anna has never lived on her own or been in charge of her life.  It's possible that the idea of just she and the kids living in their own house for months is a scary thought to her. 

While she wasn't living on her own, we know Josh was away from home quite a bit when they were living in Maryland and had no family around.  So being alone with the kids wouldn't be a scary thing for her, especially if she stayed in the Duggars' guest house or in a nearby house owned by them.  

My guess is that Jim Bob simply pointed and said, "That bed is yours.  We'll get you a rack for your clothes.  Jana, give Marcus a bath and Hannie, change the baby."

He's her temporary headship.  She wouldn't have suggested any alternative arrangement. 

[calimojo]

Oops, I posted my thoughts on this in the show thread.  But I just can't get over that Anna is in that damn dorm room.  It was just so sad, and the whole part showing her doing the Gothard curls was just so odd.  It was almost like a  a dissociative episode.    Her sad little corner in the girls room felt punitive to me.  And I wonder how this effects her kids, to see their mom reduced to such a child-like status. 

 

I can't believe their leg humpers can watch that and think it is good thing. 

[EmCatlyn]

Re: Anna's visit to Josh about a month ago about which she supposedly said, 'It was the best three days of my life,' I guess we all know this means that the 5th M-kid may be born sometime in August 2016.

It is sad, but not surprising that she feels this way.  This is the man she loves, and in his repentance and/or horniness (or both) he may have treated her with more affection than in a long time. 

People Article about Josh and Anna 

[Drala]

"She said, 'It was the best three days of my life,' says the source.

I agree that Josh would have been extraordinarily attentive and affectionate for Anna to comment in this way, but I'm irked that it was "a source" who put these words in her mouth.  My first thought at reading Anna's alleged statement was, Wow. She's had a sad, miserable life if three days with an infant and Josh in Jesus Jail are the best ever.  I can see her expressing satisfaction or even happiness over the visit, but "best three days of my life"?  

[hauntedoklahoma]

12 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

Anna has never lived on her own or been in charge of her life.  It's possible that the idea of just she and the kids living in their own house for months is a scary thought to her. 

I haven't seen it discussed that the 'turning a bad situation worse' comment could have meant self-harm (which I hope it didn't, but that is a possibility) and, in that case, she might prefer living in the girls' dorm because at least she is with someone at all times. I agree that it's probably a terrifying thought for her to be alone; silence can be weighty.

[Four is Enough]

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for these women to be alone. I CRAVE solitude. (Of course, i'm sure the devil is creeping into my heart, building fortresses all over the place.. but I digress.) If Mr. Four did to me what Josh did to Anna, the very LAST place i'd want to be is in a house with his family.

[2manyKidzzz]

Is Josh irredeemable in this area of his life? I think so. I do not see how he can pray to Jeebus and then come home and stop all of his sexual strayings. Just my opinion. Anna is naive and thinks that praying can change him.....and that their marriage can be restored. I find this very sad to hear her say, but, hey, that's just me!