Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 3

[InThePrayerCloset]

3 hours ago, MakeItSo said:

"daddy did something really bad so we sent him into a very long time out." ...do they do time outs as a form of discipline? I couldn't see Meechelle do it but Anna, yes. I could see her handle the M's like that. BTW, off topic, but one thing you have to give Josh credit for...he and Anna made some adorable little boogers. 

There was a white collar criminal in Sydney who became infamous for telling his kid "daddy was naught and has to go to his room..." when he  went to jail...

 

[MakeItSo]

1 hour ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

There was a white collar criminal in Sydney who became infamous for telling his kid "daddy was naught and has to go to his room..." when he  went to jail...

 

Oh wow. Trying not to laugh because it must suck for the kid to grow up with a constantly incarcerated parent but that's still kinda funny

[ksgranola1]

I'm betting she told them he is on  really long business trip. Kids don't have a very good sense of time. And I'll bet they do face time on the computer.

[quiversR4hunting]

14 hours ago, Jennifer Hart said:

Sad to see Anna just make herself a slave to Josh. I know a few religious couples where the wife is basically a doormat.  Getting divorced is the ultimate sin.  I know a woman whose husband heavily abused her so she went back to live with her family.  She was in her thirties when this happened and now in her forties.  She will never divorce him because she doesn't believe in divorce.  Basically she is his for life and will never be allowed in another relationship.

That is really sad. I'm not big on divorce but there is a time and place that it is necessary. That poor woman is in purgatory until he dies, unless she actually uses her brain one of these days and wakes up.

I have a co-worker that is finally going through a divorce. They tried counseling for 2 years. I told her about the time they stopped counseling to file and be done because one day you will meet a nice guy and you will have this noose still wrapped around your neck. She would say: "Oh, I am done with men, I am not looking and he won't live long he is in bad health" I would say, "bastards and SOBs seem to live the longest; don't bet on him dying young. and then you can get on with your life. And when you aren't looking is when you will find a nice one." Well she met a nice man this year. Before she met him she was telling me she was going to file, well now she has and will be free of the jerk "husband" soon. As I tell her, it doesn't matter if this new nice man is "the one" what matters you will be free to do as you please.

[hollywood]

Mack seems like she is at the age where she will notice and ask... but they are probably distracting her by having her play with her cousins more

[ksgranola1]

Quote

 

I don't know why ^^ keeps coming up. I didn't click "quote"

Mac is at an age where she is aware she isn't being told the whole story. She has to notice her mother's sadness. She is probably listening to see if she can pick up any clues and I'll bet she has.

[xlurker]

Mack is at that age, old enough to be aware of her surroundings and yet not old enough to understand what all the Kool Aid drinking really means....prob trying to listen to the grownups without seeming to.  I like to believe that there is a light on in her little head and she is just soaking all info she can get up like a sponge.  If nothing else, she knows that Mommy has been sad and she's never been like that when Daddy went away before.   Poor little M kids

[Bad Wolf]

Agreed. Mack is the most affected. I believe she's 6 now, and would be a first grader in the real world.  Too bad she has to be home schooled, and can never get away from the atmosphere at home or the TTH. They all need to go away for a while and get away from the Duggar influence. Won't happen.

[nastyhobbitses]

5 hours ago, hollywood said:

Mack seems like she is at the age where she will notice and ask... but they are probably distracting her by having her play with her cousins more

Mack seems pretty astute. I'm sure she halfway knows what's happening, even if she doesn't fully understand it. I think this period in her life will come to haunt her later when she finally realizes and actually understands what her dad did. And I'm sure she feels pressure to keep it together for Michael and Marcus and be a good, cheerful big sister -- considering how old Jana and Jill were when they were put to work as de facto parents to their siblings, I wouldn't be too surprised if Mack was already taking on that role.

[Marissap]

4 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I don't know why ^^ keeps coming up. I didn't click "quote"

Mac is at an age where she is aware she isn't being told the whole story. She has to notice her mother's sadness. She is probably listening to see if she can pick up any clues and I'll bet she has.

That's the thing....I don't think Anna is seeming sad at home. Just a guest obv but I would put money that she's keeping sweet even now. Sure she may cry in her pillow but I don't think she's showing weakness in front of others, least not her kids. 

[Fascinated]

Yes, we have no idea how Anna is feeling about Josh or their marriage. I think she will stay with him. But, what I hope is that she has learned a lot from this. I hope she is stronger and more independent. Of, course, the opposite could be true, but I have faith in Anna. She seems like a good mom. She's going to be ok, I think.  I hope. 

[InThePrayerCloset]

19 hours ago, MakeItSo said:

Oh wow. Trying not to laugh because it must suck for the kid to grow up with a constantly incarcerated parent but that's still kinda funny

I think he was only in for a year or two on insider trading etc. But it was pretty funny... except when said criminal got extra time for "helping his child with his maths homework" during visitation.. but was instead ordering trades on the stock market on his son's "maths homework". A bit sick to drag your elementary school aged kid into breaking the law... while on prison visitation...

[st4rfl33t]

On 11/30/2015 at 3:02 PM, JenniferJuniper said:

I absolutely can see TLC creating a Very Special Special centered around the new Josh and the renewal of wedding vows.

TLC has no scruples whatsoever and the Duggars are shameless fame whores.

Or "fameless shame whores".. I like to rearrange letters sometimes lol

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Mack seems pretty astute. I'm sure she halfway knows what's happening, even if she doesn't fully understand it. I think this period in her life will come to haunt her later when she finally realizes and actually understands what her dad did. And I'm sure she feels pressure to keep it together for Michael and Marcus and be a good, cheerful big sister -- considering how old Jana and Jill were when they were put to work as de facto parents to their siblings, I wouldn't be too surprised if Mack was already taking on that role.

I think Mack may be asked to help out and be a good example, but I don't think she is being burdened with the same degree of child care responsibility as we associate with the older Duggar girls for several reasons.  1) There are aunts around to help out.  Michelle was more alone.  2) There is a difference in family size.  When Jana turned 6, Michelle had 7 kids and was expecting another (Josiah) who was born later that year.   Anna has only four kids and (as far as we know) isn't expecting.  3) Anna seems (for now at least) to be more engaged with her kids than the Michelle we know from the early specials and 14Kids etc.

As for how much Mack knows about what is going on, my guess is that the kids were either told Daddy was sick or they were told that he had done something wrong and had to go away to pray a lot (or maybe a mixture of both).  The kids have probably been told that this is all God's Will and that they must all pray for Daddy.

I agree that Anna is probably showing self control around her children, though she may have cried a lot during the period around the adultery confession and Josh's leaving. But for a kid it would be logical that Mommy is sad because Daddy is leaving/had to leave/is not here. Many years from now Mack may be able to put memories together and get a sense of how badly her Daddy behaved and how hard things were for her mother, but probably not for at least 6 and more likely 10 years.

The real question is how things will be if Josh is exposed for something else after he returns. At some point the kids may start picking up that their father is someone to be ashamed of.

[LurkerOverThePond]

Sorry if this topic has been discussed thousand times already, it's just hard to keep up with all the Joshley Madison topics.

I have been wondering if Josh misses his kids. He hasn't seen them for quite a while and poor lil Meredith is probably a total stranger to him. Josh always seemed to genuinely love his kids and was much more hands on than his sorry excuses for parents JB & M. Of course he was a shitty parent treating the mother of his kids the way he did, breaking their family and causing distress, but I'd really like to know if he truly misses the M-kids. He may not have any interest in Anna anymore but I don't think he wants to give up his kids.

[foreign fundie]

1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

Sorry if this topic has been discussed thousand times already, it's just hard to keep up with all the Joshley Madison topics.

I have been wondering if Josh misses his kids. He hasn't seen them for quite a while and poor lil Meredith is probably a total stranger to him. Josh always seemed to genuinely love his kids and was much more hands on than his sorry excuses for parents JB & M. Of course he was a shitty parent treating the mother of his kids the way he did, breaking their family and causing distress, but I'd really like to know if he truly misses the M-kids. He may not have any interest in Anna anymore but I don't think he wants to give up his kids.

I hope he is. what bothers me about his treatment the most is that he is now being treated like a child, being in this 'don't think just obey' type program where all responsibility for his family is removed from him. Whereas I feel he should for once be forced to man up and deal with the hurt he has caused his family, take care of them as best he can and support Anna in whatever decision she makes.

How does putting him into a fundie prison-work-indoctrination program prepare him to be a responsible parent? He behaved immature and is punished like an unruly teen. But nothing is challenging him or forcing him to behave like the adult he really should be as a father of four.   

[nokidsmom]

41 minutes ago, foreign fundie said:

I hope he is. what bothers me about his treatment the most is that he is now being treated like a child, being in this 'don't think just obey' type program where all responsibility for his family is removed from him. Whereas I feel he should for once be forced to man up and deal with the hurt he has caused his family, take care of them as best he can and support Anna in whatever decision she makes.

How does putting him into a fundie prison-work-indoctrination program prepare him to be a responsible parent? He behaved immature and is punished like an unruly teen. But nothing is challenging him or forcing him to behave like the adult he really should be as a father of four.   

I wondered the same thing about this "rehab", of course that's assuming he's even there.   But let's go with the possibility that he is there, it smacks of sending him for a "time out" as if he's a naughty child.    And that smacks of being JB's decision because he doesn't seem to understand that his oldest son is an adult or that any of his adult children are adults for that matter.   No doubt it keeps Joshley out of the public eye but at the same time, it prevents him from truly facing the ramifications.   It prevents him from facing his family, dealing with Anna, seeing the newborn daughter who isn't going to know who he is.

If he wants to truly rebuild with his family, he needs to do these things, not just be kept out of the way where he's protected while his wife deals with the fallout, both publicly and with the family. 

 

[BackseatMom]

For what it is worth, it is pretty common to remove parents from the stress of parenting for a while when they are trying to make major changes like quitting drugs (in the child welfare court system). However, this is done for the safety of the child. It seems like, at least in the eyes of the duggars, josh still is a child. Which is majorly fucked up.

[MyMilkshake]

The fact that it's always everyone but Josh speaking up about Josh would annoy me if he were my husband.
When the molestation scandal broke, it was Anna speaking on his behalf, saying how he turned his life over to God, etc. And his parents and his sisters defending him. But nothing where Josh himself faced the cameras and said,"I did this". His sisters shouldn't be front and center explaining his actions away while he hides.

And when the AM scandal broke, the best Josh could scrape up was a thrice edited letter. And once again it is his wife, his parents and siblings speaking, not him.

If he were my husband I'd be divorcing him, but not before telling him: "YOU DID THIS. So YOU need to grow some balls and face the world yourself without your family doing it all for you".

[accountingstar]

I was reading the paper today and there was an article about domestic abuse. There are misconceptions about why some would choose to stay with an abuser. "When we question a women's judgement, we are victimizing her a second time." It typically takes a women 7 attempts before she can permanently leave a dangerous relationship. I had no clue that it took so many attempts to leave a relationship. I just hope that Anna is strong enough eventually to leave Josh.

[Bad Wolf]

I worked in a women's shelter, and we had 16 times before the woman left for good. Not all the leaving times were actually out of the house. It takes time to gather personal papers, money and children to make the break. If you've been so beaten down, it's hard to plan. We really didn't get many fleeing in the night with just the clothes on their backs.

Then there are the ones who didn't get away.

[nastyhobbitses]

3 hours ago, MyMilkshake said:

The fact that it's always everyone but Josh speaking up about Josh would annoy me if he were my husband.
When the molestation scandal broke, it was Anna speaking on his behalf, saying how he turned his life over to God, etc. And his parents and his sisters defending him. But nothing where Josh himself faced the cameras and said,"I did this". His sisters shouldn't be front and center explaining his actions away while he hides.

And when the AM scandal broke, the best Josh could scrape up was a thrice edited letter. And once again it is his wife, his parents and siblings speaking, not him.

If he were my husband I'd be divorcing him, but not before telling him: "YOU DID THIS. So YOU need to grow some balls and face the world yourself without your family doing it all for you".

Josh is and always has been a coddled manchild. He has never had to take responsibility for anything in his life, so it's not so shocking that when it came time for him to face the music for his actions, he scurried behind his daddy's pleated khakis and wife's denim midi-skirt. He has never learned accountability and integrity. From the day Jana and Jill gained fine motor skills, he's never had to clean up a mess he made. Why start now?

If I were in Anna's shoes, he would have been my ex-husband six months ago, and he -- not his sisters, not his mommy and daddy, not me -- HE would face the media and get the resulting, deserved metaphorical tarring and feathering. And if JB even opened his mouth a fraction of an inch to object, I'd point out that I know way more than what the media knows, and I wouldn't have been allowed to marry Josh if there were any dirt on me he could use as retaliation. If JB wouldn't agree to a divorce settlement that would fund the kids' education, well, there's always the royalties from the tell-all to pick up the financial slack.

[vienna]

Regarding what they tell the M kids about their Dad: I really think they tell Mack the truth and try to explain it to her in a way that fits for her age. With everything going on they have to. I fear in the long run the kids have to suffer among their curch community and other misguided people because of their dad's sinn. In their world it is hard to be an adulter's kid.

[MyMilkshake]

I also worked for a community services agency where one of my responsibilities was finding suitable shelter for women in our metropolitan area. A lot of women with children will put up with A LOT of abuse before they finally leave. It's not  until their children are being clearly affected by the situation that they decide to get out. Until that point they don't want to take their children away from their home, their bedroom and toys, sometimes there's pets to consider. Money is a huge factor as well. And location- you could end up in a safe house at the opposite side of the city away from your children's school, daycare, friends. If you have no car it can be an issue. I know safety is priority 1 but it can create a lot of upheaval at once.  They don't want to create that level of instability in their kid's worlds. So they'll put up with hell if they don't think the kids are suffering as well. 

[violynn]

19 minutes ago, vienna said:

Regarding what they tell the M kids about their Dad: I really think they tell Mack the truth and try to explain it to her in a way that fits for her age. With everything going on they have to. I fear in the long run the kids have to suffer among their curch community and other misguided people because of their dad's sinn. In their world it is hard to be an adulter's kid.

When my youngest was six, I left her dad and moved 60 miles away in large part because he didn't want the divorce and I knew I needed space from him.  After a year, almost exactly, he realized I wasn't coming back and attacked me.  Our youngest was seven when I had to tell her that daddy was in 'adult time out' because of really bad choices and she wouldn't be seeing him again for a long time.  This way of explaining it to her was advised by the child  psychologist I spoke to as the best way for her to process the news.  You can't keep things like this from children, lie to them about it, or gloss over it.  All you can do is reassure them that you (Anna) are there for them.