Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

24 minutes ago, Whoosh said:

Also, I don't have a word for rain when the sun is shining, but apparently I am slightly disturbed/confused by what some of y'all call this thing.

sunshower

the wolf is giving birth

the devil is beating his wife

monkey's wedding

fox's wedding

pineapple rain

liquid sun

I have no term or expression for this

other

Funny, I live in an area where it does this everyday for 6 months out of the year, and have no word for it.  But when my TX friend visits, he says "The Devil is beating his wife".  

[Marissap]

3 minutes ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Funny, I live in an area where it does this everyday for 6 months out of the year, and have no word for it.  But when my TX friend visits, he says "The Devil is beating his wife".  

Yeah this was the strangest question I think!  I have never even heard of any of these except the first one. But I still don't have a word for it!

[lascuba]

In some Latin American countries, people say, "A spinster is getting married," for a sun shower.

[missegeno]

4 hours ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

I understand your point.  But isn't this something that would be corrected by teachers at a young age in say, English class?  In childhood, I had some pretty nasty language habits, and would be corrected by my parents or teachers.  If not, I'd sound pretty hillbilly-ish to this day.   
I know several people from the same area of TX and the "seen" instead of "saw" is rampant.  I've often wondered if this was just accepted and never corrected in their schools.

It may have been corrected in school. But maybe you don't see the point of the lesson since your family and closest acquaintances all speak in {X} way. Or perhaps it the lesson just doesn't resonate with you or you struggle with it or whatever. It's easy to never think of those grammar rules ever again and just speak like your closest relations instead, especially as you come to have had more time out of school than you had in school. When I talk to my friends from Ohio, I notice that some have continued to refine their language skills, while others seem to have completely forgotten all the lessons we learned in k-12. My friends don't talk quite the same as we did when we were growing up but the direction of that change varies a lot, even within my group of hometown friends (admittedly, that group contains people with graduate degrees as well as convicted felons).

 

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

I understand your point.  But isn't this something that would be corrected by teachers at a young age in say, English class?  In childhood, I had some pretty nasty language habits, and would be corrected by my parents or teachers.  If not, I'd sound pretty hillbilly-ish to this day.   
I know several people from the same area of TX and the "seen" instead of "saw" is rampant.  I've often wondered if this was just accepted and never corrected in their schools.

It has become less common for schools to correct student's language.  Even when it is corrected, people will often follow the peer group/community over "instruction," especially when the "standard" is perceived as having class or "dominant culture" associations.  

There is also the problem that many of the teachers out there are not speakers of the "standard" dialect.  They may teach "saw" instead of "seen" if they give a formal grammar class, but they may use "seen" themselves when not being careful, and it certainly doesn't sound wrong to them when students use it.

I have had students in my classes who spoke "real country" as well as many AAVE speakers whose dialect influenced their writing of academic English negatively, but they were headed to be public school teachers.  It is certainly more democratic.

For my part, all sorts of deviations from the standard annoy me, but (unless I am marking a student's paper) I tell myself not to be a pedant, and move on.  

Even so, I wish people would remember that it is "toe the line," and "give free rein" and that "faze" is not the same as "phase" and "affect" and "effect" are different words, and that the wine cannot "compliment" the meal unless the wine suddenly starts talking and saying nice things to the food.("Oh steak! You look good enough to eat.  I am honored to be imbibed at a meal where you and those gorgeous potatoes and crisp green beans are going to be consumed.") And did I mention that it is "She and I," never "she and me"?

[Alicja]

I got Detroit, Grand Rapids, and Toledo! I've spent a lot of my time between Detroit and Grand Rapids, but I've only been to Toledo once or twice. According to the map, my dialect is Lower Peninsula Michigan English [emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]

[DugFan]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Even so, I wish people would remember that it is "toe the line," and "give free rein" and that "faze" is not the same as "phase" and "affect" and "effect" are different words, and that the wine cannot "compliment" the meal unless the wine suddenly starts talking and saying nice things to the food.("Oh steak! You look good enough to eat.  I am honored to be imbibed at a meal where you and those gorgeous potatoes and crisp green beans are going to be consumed.") And did I mention that it is "She and I," never "she and me"?

After years of correcting horrible grammar on college papers, I bought a T-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar." 

[AmazonGrace]

The dialect map put me in New York, Jersey City or Yonkers.

Well close enough, I've watched Friends, lol.

[EmCatlyn]

56 minutes ago, DugFan said:

After years of correcting horrible grammar on college papers, I bought a T-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar." 

 I have a bumper sticker that says "There, their, they're not the same."

[AmazonGrace]

http://cdn.lolbrary.com/2013/12/5/lolbrary.com_17751_1386287231.jpg

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, DugFan said:

After years of correcting horrible grammar on college papers, I bought a T-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar." 

I need that shirt. I feel like that every time I am on Facebook. 

[RosyDaisy]

I took the test and got Birmingham & Montgomery, Alabama and Greensboro, North Carolina. Not surprised at all

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I took the quiz. It said I was most similar to Des Moines. 100 percent accurate. Iowa born and raised.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I'm baffled as to why boulevard wasn't an option for the "tree lawn" or whatever else the strip of grass between the sidewalk and road is called.  That's what we call it here.

[notfundy]

So fun! I love things like this when they're at least partially "scientific" (meaning, no-- not the Buzzfeed quizzes!!).

So my results put me in the city where I grew up and the city where I live now(only 80 miles away from one another).

[apandaaries]

6 hours ago, DugFan said:

After years of correcting horrible grammar on college papers, I bought a T-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar." 

In large parts due to reasons well-explicated by @EmCatlyn, I am trying to get over that impulse.  It can be hard to do!  Studying linguistics really helped with my tendency to silently correct grammar.  My favorite linguistics saying is, "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy."  The language/dialect distinction is really about social power, identifying with certain groups, and showing/speaking allegiance to those groups.  It's quite fascinating.

[Sjestings]

It was right for me Baton Rouge. I am a born and bred Cajun girl 

[apandaaries]

2 hours ago, amandaaries said:

In large parts due to reasons well-explicated by @EmCatlyn, I am trying to get over that impulse.  It can be hard to do!  

And then there are typos, too, which can linger online forever!  I edit as I type and also as I reread, but sometimes I don't reread thoroughly until past the editing-approved-time-period... And text-speak!  So many new developments and changes in communication through writing. I think we're having a number of seismic cultural shifts as we move online (much like with the printing press), and online writing is still catching up (at least for those who are closer to dinosaurs than teens -- or at least it feels that way. ETA: I identify much more as dino than as teenager, for whatever that's worth).  In my lifetime, I expect to see the death of whom (RIP, at some future date) and the public approval of "they" as a singular, gender-neutral pronoun.  

Time will tell...

[Bad Wolf]

26 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

 and the public approval of "they" as a singular, gender-neutral pronoun.  

Time will tell...

Yes. English singular, gender-neutral is vey awkward. Other languages are much neater.

[pamplemousse]

I took the test and got Chicago, Aurora, and Rockford. Not surprising, as until 3 years ago, I'd lived my whole life in and very near Chicago, except for 18 months when I lived in Aurora...and Rockford is just 90 miles away from Chicago.

[zebra #13]

Quote

Cajun English borrows vocabulary and grammar from French and gives us the famous pronunciations "un-YON" (onion) and "I ga-RON-tee" as well as the phrase "Let de good times role!",

https://www15.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/dial-map.html

Now that's just embarrassing. . . .   That'd be. . ."good times roll."

 

My cities were Seattle, where I've never even visited unless you count Grey's Anatomy; Oklahoma city, where I lived the year I was four, but I doubt I learned
"service road" then; and Tulsa, which I drove through once, in the middle of the night.

In fairness, aside from Seattle the bigger use of "potato bug" is pretty much Utah where I did grow up.  Also learned "pop," "elastics," and "purses," which when I moved east at 22 became soda, rubber bands, and hand bags.

 

[JillyO]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Yes. English singular, gender-neutral is vey awkward. Other languages are much neater.

I actually think "they" is very neat. It doesn't work in German at all, even though we have a neutral third gender singular, "es." "Es" is used to depict things, not people. It would be downright dehumanizing if you tried to use that to avoid saying "he/she" all the time.

I'm a total linguistics nerd and, as such, am immensely enjoying the topic at hand. I just wanted to add that college-educated Derrick always says "Jill and I's xyz," as in "Jill and I's wedding" or "Jill and I's move to Central America." Yes, Derick, because the possesive of "I" is "I's"....... Drives me up the walls!

[InThePrayerCloset]

On 22 December 2015 at 1:16 PM, EmCatlyn said:

This website has some stuff about dialects and also some maps about dialect distribution in the USA.

For all those interested in dialects:

 

Dialect Maps and Dialect Descriptions USA

Yes, dialects tend to be associated with different regions.  And what may be ok in one area is a faux pas somewhere else.  I have been mostly talking about grammar and dialect, but sounds/pronunciation are fascinating also.  Not long ago we had a discussion about the pronunciation of "pin" and "pen," didn't we?

I posted a link to dialect maps in another message, but here is a link to a fun quiz.

New York Times Dialect Quiz

Interestingly, this Sydney-sider got NYC, Providence and Yonkers. I have been to NYC for 2 weeks, never been to Providence or Yonkers... but have spent a few months in Alabama... that was fun.

My boss taught at Brown... maybe i've picked up some Providence from him...

[missegeno]

Yes. English singular, gender-neutral is vey awkward. Other languages are much neater.

Interesting. Which languages allow for it more properly? Maybe I should add them to my learning list!

I use the singular "they" all the time and I hope it becomes more widely acceptable. I have close friends who are genderqueer or mid- gender transition, so neither male nor female pronouns feel right to them (and who am I to decide their identity). Using "they" is an easy way to refer to them in a way that doesn't call undue attention to these private matters, especially when talking to people who may not be aware or understanding of why my friends look so androgynous. .

Now, when I speak spanish, where everything is gendered, I don't have that option. I HAVE to assign a gender. It's so awkward and I hate it. Germanic languages have a third gender, but, as has been pointed out, it would be rude to use them for a person.

[fraurosena]

9 minutes ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

Interestingly, this Sydney-sider got NYC, Providence and Yonkers. I have been to NYC for 2 weeks, never been to Providence or Yonkers... but have spent a few months in Alabama... that was fun.

My boss taught at Brown... maybe i've picked up some Providence from him...

Funny thing, I've lived in Europe most of my life, but spent 5 years in Sydney as a kid... and I also got NYC, Providence and Yonkers as a result...