Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[Catey]

18 hours ago, kjmackin said:

Missouri also does not  allow you to take communion even if you are member of another Lutheran Synod. 

Eastern Synod does. It is open table anyone can take communion if they feel that they want to.

Pray the Apostle's Creed too.

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

I am a lapsed adult convert Catholic and do not receive communion because my marriage technically is not valid (and I don't care).Catholics do believe Christ is present in the Eucharist,(which I cannot get my head around, another reason I don't participate) I don't know what you believe but think about it from that perspective. Holy Communion is sacred. If you don't believe that or feel that way it is insulting to insist on participating. If I were at a religious service for another religion I would be very mindful to respect their beliefs even if I did not agree or understand. 

(I may of missed the context in your comment, not attacking you)

I was brought up Roman Catholic and like you I respect the prohibition against the non Catholic or the person who is "living in sin," participating in the Eucharist.  I don't agree with it, but I would never "insist on participating."

However, I don't think it is "insulting" to  the Church to believe that the Roman Catholic Church is wrong to exclude from participation  non-Catholics who have been baptized and understand/respect the meaning of the Eucharist. And that was the context of my comment that the Missouri Synod of the Lutherans was "as bad as the Catholics" if they would not share communion with those from other Synods.  

I also think the Catholic Church is wrong not to ordain women, I disagree with the clerical celibacy requirement, I think the annulment/divorce thing needs straightening out and I am pro-birth control and pro-choice.  

But I will also defend the Catholic Church for what I think it does right (good works are easily more important than prayer in my book) and insist that Catholics are Christians and do not worship statues.    

As for my religious affiliation, I am now an Episcopalian after many years as a Unitarain and a brief return to the Catholic fold.  Mostly I believe that each of us will reach out to God in our own way, and the "liturgical" approach works for me.

I'm sorry if you took my comment to be disrespectful.  I think the problem is that I take the privilege of a family member to criticize "the Church" even though I am a disaffected family member.   

 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

A nice Jewish boy.

Where??  *spins head looking* Ohhh, you mean the guy on the cross. Not that one suddenly appeared.

[Bad Wolf]

1 minute ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Where??  *spins head looking* Ohhh, you mean the guy on the cross. Not that one suddenly appeared.

Right. It got separated from the quote.

[HarryPotterFan]

3 hours ago, silverspoons said:

So Jill tells ET in an interview she can't go to language school anymore because it is too hard to juggle being a wife, mother and student. So the people donating are basically paying for her to be a stay at home mom?

Why can't she just say she wants to be a wife and mother and does not want to work. Her fan base would be happy to hear it.

Seriously?? Isn't language school part time anyway?! How is she going to convert the heathens?!

Yeah, I wish she'd just admit she has no interest in school and wants to be a SAHM instead of making up excuses. Fans watching should know that being a wife, mother, and student is entirely possible. Yeah it's hard, but I don't know if Jill is going through any legit program because it's the Duggar way to take short cuts. Jill is a shitty role model.

 

 

[violynn]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Is this a thing?  Kind of like a magic 8 ball?

Come on @HerNameIsBuffy, you knew this!  The LHOTP epi when Caroline had the infected leg and opened her Bible and found the passage telling her to cut it off if it offended her?

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

The first "exposure" to Catholicism I experienced was through former Catholics turned Baptists, and they are instrumental in spreading misinformation about the Church . I of course didn't know any different, but later on I happened upon an apologetics book that is dedicated to dispelling those misconceptions (and outright lies), as well as how those misconceptions came to be.

I guess that is a little like getting one's information about a person from his/her ex-spouse.

 

[sockinshoe]

Disregard this. I accidentally quickposted. Sorry [emoji15]

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, silverspoons said:

So Jill tells ET in an interview she can't go to language school anymore because it is too hard to juggle being a wife, mother and student. So the people donating are basically paying for her to be a stay at home mom?

Why can't she just say she wants to be a wife and mother and does not want to work. Her fan base would be happy to hear it.

I wasn't even aware she was going to "school."  I thought she was getting a couple of hours of private language classes a week.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Quote

she can't go to language school anymore because it is too hard to juggle being a wife, mother and student.

What a load of twaddle.  I'm sure she wants to stay home and play with the baby-- and that is all right if you can afford that luxury-- but to say she can't juggle language classes with one baby?  How is she planning on handling 3, 4 or 5 small children?  Will she be telling Derick she can't juggle being the mom of 3 kids AND a wife?  Also this clarifies that she is not planning on being a midwife.  If she can't handle language classes with one child then how does she plan on juggling a couple of babies, Derick, and a midwife practice?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, violynnkelly said:

Come on @HerNameIsBuffy, you knew this!  The LHOTP epi when Caroline had the infected leg and opened her Bible and found the passage telling her to cut it off if it offended her?

I thought she knew this passage and was looking it up to give herself the courage to go through with it?  

Because if she had a magic eight ball bible she could use it to get Charles to spend a little less time sticking his nose in all the neighbor problems and a little more time on the farm - maybe he'd have had one decent crop!

[sockinshoe]

7 hours ago, sockinshoe said: That happened to me last year at university! It was Easter Sunday, to boot, and my boyfriend had to restrain me or I would have lunged straight for the guy's jugular.

I'm kind of sorry that your boyfriend stopped you.  Then again, since it was Easter Sunday, I suppose it was for the best. 

The guy waltzed into the common area of my dorm building, where my bf and I were sitting on the couch, and asked us if we'd all repented for our sins in time for Easter. We said "ummm what?" And be explained that where he's from, his congregation repents for not standing up for Jesus when he was being tortured and crucified because Jesus only died due to their inaction. I told him I was Jewish and would like to be left out of this discussion, to which he replied "well you're extra-guilty! You voted against saving Jesus!". My boyfriend was not expecting any of this, and doesn't think of me as a violent person, so he had less than a second to pull me into my seat and drag me out of there.

[ksgranola1]

Are you serious?! She can't...I went to college while my girls were little! WTH is she doing there, then? After all this time, hasn't she learned enough to get by?? I used to work in an ER. I picked up enough Spanish from my patients to get by!

Oh, this is the last straw. One normal child. She's gonna dump the whole missionary gig on Derrick.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Is this a thing?  Kind of like a magic 8 ball?

ETA the second bolded is nice but to paraphrase Kathleen Madigan, Catholics don't read the bible, we read the bulletin.  Way more important to find out who died and what's for lunch.  

I do agree with you in how it's approached by the RCC itself as they study and interpret it - and I was always taught that the stories like the flood, and Adam being made out of dirt and Eve his rib were allegory and parables...that it wasn't literally 7 days.  

But the Catholics I know who have read the bible have done it for more academic reasons. None of the Catholics in my world reach for the bible when troubled about something, and none of the fundy-lites in my world reach for anything else.

Just to clarify, when I said that I thought the Catholic relationship to the Bible was healthier than that of Fundie Protestants who idolize the Bible, I didn't mean that Catholics in general spend a lot of time reading the Bible. They do listen to it in the liturgy, however and Biblical narrative is part of their understanding of the world.

I don't consider obsessiveness healthy and many fundies seem obsessed with poring over the Bible often without understanding it.  I mean, look at the Duggar kids: If they were really reading the KJV, if they were listening to the words and noting the ways in which the language differs from that of the present, if they were paying attention to the cadence and balance of the sentences... Don't you think they would be able to shape sentences that didn't interject "like" between phrases?

Really reading involves thinking about what you read.  If you are just going to memorize passages and repeat the interpretation of your pastor, you may as well just read the bulletin. At least that way you don't think you know the bible.

[Catey]

Okay so like in the beginning God like totally created the heavens and like you know the earth! The JDV..

 

 

[twinmama]

On 12/17/2015 at 10:41 AM, amandaaries said:

Have to chime in here, but not all three synods are Catholic-lite.  The Evangelical Lutherans are really very liberal.  They have and encourage women pastors, they also have gay pastors (though they are supposed to be in committed relationships, and no pastors are encouraged to date around, so there are some complicated aspects), and they have a pretty inclusive doctrine of grace.  

  Reveal hidden contents

Source: my mom is now a Lutheran pastor (she went to seminary the same time I started grad school) and I've had tons of exposure to her friends, both male and female, who lead churches or are further up in the church hierarchy.  

About the local variations,  I know of one pastor in the Midwest who felt that her sexuality wouldn't be well-received by her congregation (after  she was widowed, she fell in love with a woman), so she eventually left that church and moved with her now-wife to go into some kind of spiritual hospice counseling.  I think she didn't want to cause scandal, and it can be confusing for a lot of people when older people discover more about their sexuality and capacity for love.

 

Gotta say, I was married by a Lutheran pastor. My husband and I are both former Catholics, current atheists and he did a completely secular ceremony for us. The only religious thing was he wore his collar and had to get some synod thing signed or registered. I don't even know. I doubt any Catholic priest would have done any of that! We read a Shel Silverstein poem during the ceremony, popped a bottle of champagne at the "altar" and walked back down the aisle to Birdhouse in my Soul. So at the very least, this guy was a very liberal Lutheran.

10 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

I am a lapsed adult convert Catholic and do not receive communion because my marriage technically is not valid (and I don't care).Catholics do believe Christ is present in the Eucharist,(which I cannot get my head around, another reason I don't participate) I don't know what you believe but think about it from that perspective. Holy Communion is sacred. If you don't believe that or feel that way it is insulting to insist on participating. If I were at a religious service for another religion I would be very mindful to respect their beliefs even if I did not agree or understand. 

(I may of missed the context in your comment, not attacking you)

Ohhh I spent most of church trying to figure out which part of Jesus's body communion came from. I pretty much decided it had to be his wrist because a cross section was about the right shape and size. Figured that out just before I realized I didn't believe any of that stuff at all. Around 8 years old.

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, silverspoons said:

So Jill tells ET in an interview she can't go to language school anymore because it is too hard to juggle being a wife, mother and student. So the people donating are basically paying for her to be a stay at home mom?

Why can't she just say she wants to be a wife and mother and does not want to work. Her fan base would be happy to hear it.

The level of disrespect Jill is showing to the people of Guatemala with this is mind-boggling to me.

First she and Derrick made a huge show of going to Guatemala claiming to be on a mission of salvation, with no clear goals or plan to help people but just a very self-important attitude that their mere presence will be enough.

Now Jill is saying she doesn't even have time to learn the language of their host country? She's not going to bother to take the basic steps she will need to communicate with the people they are claiming to be "ministering" to?

What was the point of any of this if the "ministry" doesn't even make it onto her priority list?

I realize it's not easy to adjust to life with a new baby, but that's where some better planning would have helped, and some commitment is needed to see it through.

[SassyPants]

I *think* she is still taking lessons, but the teacher comes to her home as opposed to Jill going out to attend class.

 

[EmCatlyn]

54 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Are you serious?! She can't...I went to college while my girls were little! WTH is she doing there, then? After all this time, hasn't she learned enough to get by?? I used to work in an ER. I picked up enough Spanish from my patients to get by!

Oh, this is the last straw. One normal child. She's gonna dump the whole missionary gig on Derrick.

Well, that is not really a bad thing for the people they are trying to convert, is it?  At least he has had some real-world experience and is enthusiastic about having a mission as opposed to just wanting to be admired for being good.  She really doesn't know the first thing about being a visitor in another country, never mind being a missionary.

I am wondering actually if Jill's problem is that she doesn't know how to be a wife and mother but thinks that she does because she was one of the j-slaves.  She may not have realized how difficult it was to be the one responsible for planning, not just executing Michelle's orders in consultation with her sisters.

Also, Jill doesn't have a habit of study or a good command of her own language.   Her excessive use of "like" while looking for the words that she needs to explain quite simple things is a glaring sign of her linguistic poverty.   She can certainly pick up enough of the language to go shopping, but picking up enough Spanish to buy avocados with is not the same as enough Spanish to explain "Why Praying to the Virgin Mary Is Wrong."  

 I can tell you that even for college students who are used to studying and are immersed in an environment that promotes learning, full acquisition of a second language will take two years of study/immersion. (And real ease with the language, to the point that you can think in it, may take another 3.)

She may have looked at how much work was still ahead and decided she couldn't do it.  It's too bad, but the truth is the Duggars are not equipped to function well outside their own little world.  What I wonder is how Derick feels about it.

[Grimalkin]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I was brought up Roman Catholic and like you I respect the prohibition against the non Catholic or the person who is "living in sin," participating in the Eucharist.  I don't agree with it, but I would never "insist on participating."

However, I don't think it is "insulting" to  the Church to believe that the Roman Catholic Church is wrong to exclude from participation  non-Catholics who have been baptized and understand/respect the meaning of the Eucharist. And that was the context of my comment that the Missouri Synod of the Lutherans was "as bad as the Catholics" if they would not share communion with those from other Synods.  

I also think the Catholic Church is wrong not to ordain women, I disagree with the clerical celibacy requirement, I think the annulment/divorce thing needs straightening out and I am pro-birth control and pro-choice.  

But I will also defend the Catholic Church for what I think it does right (good works are easily more important than prayer in my book) and insist that Catholics are Christians and do not worship statues.    

As for my religious affiliation, I am now an Episcopalian after many years as a Unitarain and a brief return to the Catholic fold.  Mostly I believe that each of us will reach out to God in our own way, and the "liturgical" approach works for me.

I'm sorry if you took my comment to be disrespectful.  I think the problem is that I take the privilege of a family member to criticize "the Church" even though I am a disaffected family member.   

 

Where did I say it was "insulting" to believe something different? "Insist in participating" was not quite the phrase I was looking for. I have seen people get bent out of shape and offended at not taking communion. I don't think most people would be offended if it were a different religion. Did you read the last sentence in my post where I mentioned I may have taken your comment out of context? I said I was not attacking you, I was explaining something I have seen people get offended by. 

       When you say Missouri synod is "as bad as the Catholics" I thought perhaps you or others did not understand the meaning of the Eucharist for Catholics, and the purpose was not to make others feel excluded. You can criticize the church all you want. It's no skin off my back.(if a person criticizes it based on false information, or seems to not understand something I may try to explain it to them).  As I was explaining it to you. You may of already known this, maybe somebody reading did not.

[Grimalkin]

52 minutes ago, twinmama said:

Gotta say, I was married by a Lutheran pastor. My husband and I are both former Catholics, current atheists and he did a completely secular ceremony for us. The only religious thing was he wore his collar and had to get some synod thing signed or registered. I don't even know. I doubt any Catholic priest would have done any of that! We read a Shel Silverstein poem during the ceremony, popped a bottle of champagne at the "altar" and walked back down the aisle to Birdhouse in my Soul. So at the very least, this guy was a very liberal Lutheran.

Ohhh I spent most of church trying to figure out which part of Jesus's body communion came from. I pretty much decided it had to be his wrist because a cross section was about the right shape and size. Figured that out just before I realized I didn't believe any of that stuff at all. Around 8 years old.

        My parents pulled me out of public school in the middle of third grade and stuck me into a catholic school and never discussed religion with me. The question What part of his body that was I the communion kept me up many a night. 

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Also, Jill doesn't have a habit of study or a good command of her own language.   Her excessive use of "like" while looking for the words that she needs to explain quite simple things is a glaring sign of her linguistic poverty. 

Maybe, but there has been research that suggests that people who use a lot of filler words tend to be more conscientious.

http://jls.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/03/26/0261927X14526993.abstract

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/06/i-mean-its-just-thoughtful-you-know.html

Quote

The possible explanation for this association is that conscientious people are generally more thoughtful and aware of themselves and their surroundings. When having conversations with listeners, conscientious people use discourse markers, such as ‘I mean’ and ‘you know,’ to imply their desire to share or rephrase opinions to recipients. Thus it is expected that the use of discourse markers may be used to measure the degree to which people have thoughts to express.

I'm not saying this is or is not the case with Jill, but saying "like" a lot doesn't necessarily indicate poor language ability.

[AlysonRR]

I see it more in the young - my 13-yo daughter does it, as do most of her friends. "Like" is the linguistic "um" for the teen generation.

[EmCatlyn]

52 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Where did I say it was "insulting" to believe something different? "Insist in participating" was not quite the phrase I was looking for. I have seen people get bent out of shape and offended at not taking communion. I don't think most people would be offended if it were a different religion. Did you read the last sentence in my post where I mentioned I may have taken your comment out of context? I said I was not attacking you, I was explaining something I have seen people get offended by. 

       When you say Missouri synod is "as bad as the Catholics" I thought perhaps you or others did not understand the meaning of the Eucharist for Catholics, and the purpose was not to make others feel excluded. You can criticize the church all you want. It's no skin off my back.(if a person criticizes it based on false information, or seems to not understand something I may try to explain it to them).  As I was explaining it to you. You may of already known this, maybe somebody reading did not.

No problem.  I didn't think you were attacking me.  I was explaining the context for my comment.  Sorry if you thought that I had misinterpreted you.  

When I said that in refusing to share Communion with those from other synods the LMS folks were as bad as the Catholics, I was being critical of both the LMS and RC practices.  Yes, I understand and respect their reasons.  They feel (as most religions do) that they are doing it right and others are not.  I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't speaking out of ignorance or disrespect.  I can disagree respectfully.  And often do.

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, Whoosh said:

Speaking only for myself and what I was taught in the Episcopal Church, yes, the bolded is the problem.  I don't recall anyone ever specifically discussing the Catholic faith and Episcopalians certainly believe that Catholics are Christians.  That said the proper or better way of doing things is to open your heart, your soul, your mind, and your life to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.  The middle men are just seen as mucking that up.  Same type of thing for the penance part. I don't think it entirely matters that a middle man decides the penance, but rather you are supposed to open your heart to God to lead.  Something like saying a rosary or doing penance would again been seen as mucking that up.  So basically we were taught that Catholics do some stuff that weakens the relationship with God or mucks things up a bit, but that wasn't seen as anything that would mean someone wasn't Catholic or would not go to Heaven.

I think this may vary within the Episcopal Church. I'm Episcopalian too, and I was taught that confession is not required but is available if it will help you feel better. It does not affect whether or not you get into heaven, but if you want to basically get it off your chest to someone, or if you feel bad about what you did but don't quite know where to start on repentance, confession to your priest was presented as a good option.