Erika Shupe *fake smile* Large Families on Purpose *cringe*

[16strong]

Those kids aren't going to college. Between the edjumacation they get from somebody proud of not knowing how to spell, and how the aren't allowed to budget their on time or do their own things, those kids will be lucky to get into CollegeMinus. But since that's all about CLEPs, and those kids will probably need years of remedial classes, I don't think they'll get to do it. Erika only views jobs for the girls as time-killers until they get husbands.

Can you imagine Erika being your mother-in-law? :shock: I bet the first thing she does is demand her daughter's husband cut off his balls and wrap them (neatly, with a bow on top) in a box. There will be gleeful pictures of her opening her present on FB.

[Crocoduck]

When my friends at school did Latin, the literature they studied was fairly 'explicit' (at least, it would be to fundies.) I assume the Ancient Greek literature was relatively similar.

I took 2 years of Ancient Greek in undergrad. As a philosophy major it was great, but I cannot imagine trying to teach myself or learn from computer software!

And one semester we studied the poems of Sappho, a female from [insert drumroll] the Island of Lesbos :lol:

[princessmahina]

I learned some pretty explicit things in Latin too- one semester, I was the only student in the class and we read Catullus 58. I'll never forget my professor turning red as he tried to explain the meaning how the word meaning "to peel back" also referenced blow jobs. Erika would blow a gasket if one of her muffins was subjected to Catullus or Martial. :cracking-up:

[DowntownAbbey]

Couldn't learning a language like ancient Greek for the expressed purpose of understanding the Bible better possibly lead to some questioning on the accuracy of translation, use of different manuscripts, etc?

[Foudeb]

I learned some pretty explicit things in Latin too- one semester, I was the only student in the class and we read Catullus 58. I'll never forget my professor turning red as he tried to explain the meaning how the word meaning "to peel back" also referenced blow jobs. Erika would blow a gasket if one of her muffins was subjected to Catullus or Martial. :cracking-up:

Same for Greek... Anything by Aristophanes really ought to come with an adult warning. And I vividly recall a long scene in Daphnis and Chloe that basically describes how to have intercourse (possibly the only time I did more than the required homework since records began). Oh, and much of Plato has bits on how Socrates leers at the young and handsome disciples and asks them to sit right next to him - I bet that counts triple in fundieland due to the gay theme?

I guess you could say that of any language but, her intellect and education being what they are, she might not be able to intercept naughty foreign material on time.

[mango_fandango]

I can't find the link anymore, I don't know where it was, but someone linked to a Spanish book on a Christian book site. The book's description said that it taught basic stuff, and also contained "soul-winning vocabulary".

I found the website, but can't find the book. It's probably still there somewhere, I just can't find it.

[sockinshoe]

Same for Greek... Anything by Aristophanes really ought to come with an adult warning. And I vividly recall a long scene in Daphnis and Chloe that basically describes how to have intercourse (possibly the only time I did more than the required homework since records began). Oh, and much of Plato has bits on how Socrates leers at the young and handsome disciples and asks them to sit right next to him - I bet that counts triple in fundieland due to the gay theme?

I guess you could say that of any language but, her intellect and education being what they are, she might not be able to intercept naughty foreign material on time.

I was fortunate enough to be accepted into a very rigorous one-year programme that focuses on the western canon and the history of philosophy. I got to read both Plato (the Republic) and Aristophanes (Clouds) and boy howdy did they not mince words. I loved it.But yes, that kind of stuff would fell Erika Shupe like a tree. It's not only written by guys who worshipped Pagan gods, they also were not afraid of bodily functions or desires (even for the same gender). But then again, even Christian thinkers like St. Augustine or Dante or Luther or even someone like Kant would be too filthy and wordly for blessed *beams* Erika Shupe. It's ridiculous, given how full of smut the Bible is (Song of Songs, anyone?).

[older than allosaurs]

Erika's town is 30+ percent Hispanic (I live nearby). I realize there are lots of reasons to learn another language besides chatting with your neighbors, but knowing Spanish is helpful around here and it's easy to find opportunities to practice. Of course getting to know your community better may not be high on her priority list....Catholics! Quinceanera parties! Big, close families that don't behave like hers. Forget I mentioned it.

[formerlyfundie]

So I have been lurking this thread for so long, and I feel like I have to contribute my experience with this woman. I added her on fb a while ago, mostly to lurk, and she apparently took a liking of some kind to me, messaging me and being all *smile* friendly. Anyway I commented on a few of her pictures she posted recently of Melanie's amazing chalk art, trying to encourage the girl to pursue it because she's really naturally gifted. And I got the vibe that erika is discouraging her from drawing in her spare time but when it brings HER attention,like this time at the fair/festival she's all for it.

The other day I was talking about how I registered my oldest for kindergarten, and she completely randomly messaged me all these links about how Christians shouldn't send their children to the ~evil public schools, citing Voddie Baucham's many articles and talking heads about it. I responded telling her basically that it was ridiculous to take Christian children out of the schools, and how I was tired of Christians being so afraid of everything and obviously not trusting their own parenting or kids or faith by hovering over them and controlling them. She responded with some stuff about how the Bible CLEARLY states we should homeschool our children and how she was so concerned about my kids being corrupted by the school and all these things...mind you she knows nothing about me or my kids, she just for some reason felt called to come after me with all of this. I ignored the convo for a few hours, and she messaged me later that night with more "proof" of how what I was doing was wrong and I got so frustrated that I deleted and blocked her. I wish I had kept all the messages but I'm sure you all could probably piece together what she said, also she had a really weird message about how children can't be used to spread the gospel because they need to be "greenhoused", something along the lines of them being trained up and grown in the home and then at the right time, uprooted and planted somewhere else.(I don't know.if this rings a bell to anyone as something any particular fundie group or leader teaches. This was a new one to me) And that time is I guess in adulthood. This was in response to me telling her that I wanted my kids to go to school to meet friends and meet people who aren't Christian (*gasp* diversity! *gasp*) , and learn about others and be influenced by and influence others.

So yeah, that's been burning in my mind, my heart also breaks for those older girls, they are so beautiful and so capable and talented, and deserve to go out and figure out who they are and what they can contribute to the world. I hope Karen and Melanie don't feel pressured to stay under Erika's thumb well into adulthood and that they have a support system if they decide to leave. I'm rooting for them.

And if Erika reads here, hey there, you know who I am, go ahead and make some passive aggressive post about trying to *smile* help people see things your way and how I *frown* didn't listen.

[browngrl]

formerlyfundie commented "they need to be "greenhoused", something along the lines of them being trained up and grown in the home and then at the right time, uprooted and planted somewhere else.(I don't know.if this rings a bell to anyone as something any particular fundie group or leader teaches."

I remember the Mortons talking about this. Adeline had gone on some sort of a ski trip and presumably been exposed to Godless merriment of some sort and mama Morton started making comments about this sort of thing (in a very oblique way). I think they called to 'tomato stalking' or something like that. Basically it meant closely monitoring the child so that they would grow up right and when appropriately strong could be 'transplanted' to their husband's home. I'm not sure who originally came up with the idea.

[salsa]

Couldn't learning a language like ancient Greek for the expressed purpose of understanding the Bible better possibly lead to some questioning on the accuracy of translation, use of different manuscripts, etc?

I suppose it would if the teachers wish to engage the biblical texts, but we're talking about Erica *smile* The ancient languages will only prove what they already believe - only more so. Critical thinking will not. be. tolerated. Every time you girls start having an intelligent thought (especially if it's an independent thought), you go practice your rag curls.

related, but O/T : There was one post on Jessica/ Latisha's first blog she took down that impressed me: she'd been doing some reading on the founding of our country and was surprised to discover that the US was not founded to be a Christian utopia and that there were atheists and agnostics and a variety of Christians and even Jews among the group. So glad to hear someone of that ilk admit that (her spin was along the lines of her eyes being opened to the fact that there were ungodly people in the founding of our country).

edited because I lost track of which fundy mom is which.

[mango_fandango]

More from Erika:

Okay, another question about ROSETTA STONE curriculum for learning SPANISH. The intro says that we will begin speaking immediately, without learning lists of vocabulary. I could see the benefit of this if one was an adult preparing to go to Mexico and needs to begin speaking basic sentences. But for a curriculum for highschool speaking, seems very premature without a vocabulary foundation. How can one learn a language well without a foundation of words to use? It seems like I would personally feel very stressed being expected to begin speaking and using a language without a firm foundation. Could anyone shed some light on this for me, please???

It's only from about seven minutes ago.

Can't the girls use supplementary materials? I remember my aunt gave me a Michel Thomas box for learning Italian, and this seemed to be a 'speak immediately without a foundation of words' thing. It seemed like an odd method to me.

ETA: There's been a mixed response. Some have said they love it, some have said it was a total waste of time (someone said their kid progressed, but had no grasp of practical use).

[LovelyLuna]

Zuzu commented on her lated post on Rosetta stone. I’m new to her a PP but dose he really speak 6 languages???

I speak three languages fluently, and have a working knowledge of three more. My husband is fluent in five or six. Neither of us have ever run into anyone proficient in a foreign language, who when asked how they learned the language, told us they learned it through Rosetta Stone. It is a program that is entirely overpriced, and I have yet to meet anyone that became fluent in any language using it. Learn to speak the natural way, the way you learned your first language? I guess after a year, you'll know how to say mama and dada. That's not the timeline most people have in mind. Buying Rosetta Stone is like getting an expensive treadmill on New Year's - people think they will stick with it and be good at it because they have invested a lot of money into it, but just the opposite is true. Language is like Legos. Vocabulary is the bricks, and grammar is the building instructions. You can't do much with either by itself, you need both. The more vocab you learn, the more bricks you have to build with. A basic (memorized) vocabulary of about 1,500 words will make most text understandable, and fluency will come with practice and use. English is my third language, which I learned in school. Each week, we had to memorize about 50 new words, in addition to being taught the grammar. THAT is the way to learn a foreign language.

[Gimme a Free RV]

My response to Zsu's emphatic "THAT is the way to learn a language."

Riiiiight. Because we all learn the same way...not.

Total immersion worked wonders for me. (Three spoken languages under my belt after living in three different countries for extended times.) Language goes beyond vocabulary words and sentence structure.

Becoming truly fluent in another language involves getting to know the people, the customs, the food, the culture, the music and the words that are most relevant to your particular situation. If you're a young mother, you want to know how to talk to a pediatrician, ask where the diapers are in a store, and talk to other mothers on the playground. If you're an engineer, you'll learn a whole other vocabulary.

Total immersion means going into the homes of people, making friends, asking them to tell you their stories, watching their gestures, watching how they cook, listening to their little children read, watching TV and listening to the radio in that language, throwing out the dictionary and translating tools and learning word meanings and phrases using context clues, and stepping out of your comfort zone. You gain not only a new language but a new worldview (and new friends).

So PP speaks six languages fluently? Drop him in six remote villages and see if he survives.

By the way, what I've described about learning by total immersion? If you don't have the opportunity to immerse yourself in another culture or like Erika, won't because you might get, you know, corrupted outside the four walls of your own home...then Rosetta Stone is the next best thing.

[Foudeb]

Falling in love with someone you don't share a main language with, now that's how you make good progress ;)

I'd like to know more about what PP defines as fluency. Somehow I think his definition might not be that stringent.

Erika's post is interesting. Language learning is based on interacting with others and it looks like she's already panicking at the idea of her offspring interacting with anyone or anything but her. Memorising a list of words? Waste of time and effort to actually communicate, but that's something she can easily supervise and control.

What a bitch.

If there's a big Hispanic community where she lives, she should hire a Spanish speaker to come give the kids lessons. Or to get someone well qualified and free, just send them to school...

[DaffyDill]

I love how on the side of her Facebook page someone has asked for her views on courting/dating etc. considering Karen and Melanie are of an age where they would be thinking of such things. She hasn't bothered to answer it.

That doesn't bode well for the girls...

[Eternalbluepearl]

Did Zsu just endorse school? She just admitted she got a great education away from home? Wow.

[JillyO]

I love how on the side of her Facebook page someone has asked for her views on courting/dating etc. considering Karen and Melanie are of an age where they would be thinking of such things. She hasn't bothered to answer it.

That doesn't bode well for the girls...

I don't know. I checked, and she doesn't seem to answer a lot of the questions/comments people post on her wall. Seems to me that you're better off commenting on one of her posts if you're trying to get a reply from Erica.

[DarkAnts]

I remember learning languages with Muzzy but I won't tell Erika about it.

[Crocoduck]

Couldn't learning a language like ancient Greek for the expressed purpose of understanding the Bible better possibly lead to some questioning on the accuracy of translation, use of different manuscripts, etc?

I'm pretty new to fundie-land, but this seems like exactly what they DON'T want their kids doing.

[mango_fandango]

I don't know. I checked, and she doesn't seem to answer a lot of the questions/comments people post on her wall. Seems to me that you're better off commenting on one of her posts if you're trying to get a reply from Erica.

I think Erika probably has the same sort of views as the Duggars. I say Duggars over Bateses because the Bateses are more relaxed- they allow full-frontal hugs before engagement, and hand-holding. Somehow, I don't imagine Erika being as generous as Kelly.

Side note- Erika posted congratulations to Derick and Jill when they had Izzy Dilly, but hasn't posted about Meredith Duggar. She seemed to support josh when she found out about the molestation thing, but is she just trying to avoid controversy? She doesn't have a problem posting other controversial things, so...

[Seven Severn]

Couldn't learning a language like ancient Greek for the expressed purpose of understanding the Bible better possibly lead to some questioning on the accuracy of translation, use of different manuscripts, etc?

That's exactly what happened to Bart Ehrman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman He was so enthusiastic about his new-found faith that he learned ancient languages and then it all went to hell for him.

[halcionne]

formerlyfundie commented "they need to be "greenhoused", something along the lines of them being trained up and grown in the home and then at the right time, uprooted and planted somewhere else.(I don't know.if this rings a bell to anyone as something any particular fundie group or leader teaches."

I remember the Mortons talking about this. Adeline had gone on some sort of a ski trip and presumably been exposed to Godless merriment of some sort and mama Morton started making comments about this sort of thing (in a very oblique way). I think they called to 'tomato stalking' or something like that. Basically it meant closely monitoring the child so that they would grow up right and when appropriately strong could be 'transplanted' to their husband's home. I'm not sure who originally came up with the idea.

Reminds me of Raising Godly Tomatoes, although a quick search of that blog didn't turn up any greenhouse metaphors (I'm not familiar with this blog--I vaguely remembered it being discussed here and found a couple of threads [which I haven't read recently]).

RGT threads:

viewtopic.php?f=193&t=2844

viewtopic.php?f=193&t=14553

[DowntownAbbey]

Erika's got another recycled post up today. "Productively Occupying 3-Year-Old Boys"

Do you have a 3-year-old boy (or know someone who does) who seems to have testosterone exploding from his darling little body con-stant-ly? *smile*

Is testosterone really the issue here? I thought all little kids were supposed to be full of energy. I'm not a child expert but nothing I'm seeing on high-energy children discusses any specifics of hormones influencing this.

Her section on girls vs. boys wasn't as horrible as I thought it was going to be. Maybe because she didn't talk in absolutes.

Our little testosterone-filled darling had strength, perseverance, creativity, and speed that I simply was not able to train in the same way.

Is it just me, or is testosterone filling in for actual personality differences between her children? It almost smacks of a "boys will be boys" line of reasoning because hormones.

Again, it's not requiring self-control of them, but we're working on that in other areas of life and for now I simply can't take on everything at once with so many "offenders" *wink*.

This line is making me think that the problem wasn't as much zomg "testosterone" filled BOY as I have 3+ kids now and have to parent all of them and therefore cannot spend as much time parenting him and the next children down the uterus as I was able to with the first two.

Am I reading the article right in that Erika didn't childproof her home until her third child?

[mango_fandango]

Erika's got another recycled post up today. "Productively Occupying 3-Year-Old Boys"

Is testosterone really the issue here? I thought all little kids were supposed to be full of energy. I'm not a child expert but nothing I'm seeing on high-energy children discusses any specifics of hormones influencing this.

Her section on girls vs. boys wasn't as horrible as I thought it was going to be. Maybe because she didn't talk in absolutes.

Is it just me, or is testosterone filling in for actual personality differences between her children? It almost smacks of a "boys will be boys" line of reasoning because hormones.

This line is making me think that the problem wasn't as much zomg "testosterone" filled BOY as I have 3+ kids now and have to parent all of them and therefore cannot spend as much time parenting him and the next children down the uterus as I was able to with the first two.

Am I reading the article right in that Erika didn't childproof her home until her third child?

It's a very odd article, and very specific. Do boys really change much between 3 and 4? How about as they grow older? Do they suddenly stop and become much calmer at the age of four, or what?

The testosterone bit weirded me out too. Surely testosterone has NOTHING to do with how rambunctious kids are. It sounds like Karen and Melanie were very compliant little girls. If she honestly thinks girls don't run around being crazy, she is nuts. Hasn't she ever seen evidence of the Duggar girls, especially Josie, wreaking havoc? Hannie's supposed to be quite feisty, or at least definitely was at one point.