Erika Shupe *fake smile* Large Families on Purpose *cringe*

[DaffyDill]

Another carryover from the previous thread

This seems to be standard thinking among fundies, that doctors and medical science don't know anything about pregnancy and childbirth. Any medical reason for a woman not getting pregnant is just wrong. There is never a valid medical reason to avoid pregnancy. They always say "doctors don't know" and this inclues the results of any pre-natal testing. I wonder if fundies even do pre-natal testing because they would never abort so why bother.

I have a friend from college who became a fundie after she got married. A mutual friend had a very difficult pregnancy that required a lot of testing and monitoring; she was not allowed to be more than a 30 minute drive away from the hospital.

She and the baby ended up just fine. But her doctor told her that she should not get pregnant again, that another pregnancy would be very dangerous, possibly fatal, for her and/or the baby. She got a second and third opinion from doctors that specialized in high-risk pregnancy. They both said the same thing. So she wisely decided to not get pregnant again.

Our fundie friend was disgusted. She said that doctors shouldn't be saying that because they "don't know," pregnancy is natural, God wants you to have babies, etc. She said that if doctors told her that she shouldn't get pregnant, she would ignore that advice.

In fundie land, there's a denial that there could ever be a reason to avoid pregnancy. I suppose they think nothing bad could ever happen to them in regard to pregnancy because they're so godly.

What would Erica do if she had a disabled child who literally could not be kept to a strict schedule? No, you can't have a seizure now, it's not on the schedule.

Re: the bolded... The fundy women are in denial about avoiding pregnancy, even if it is the advice of doctors, because if they can't have babies, what else can they do? They can't work, they can't pursue higher learning, many have no marketable skills beyond homemaking. These women have no real value in fundy-land without their ability to have children. And let's face it, that's not a skill learned through hard work, experience or education, it's what a lot of women can do purely as a result of their biology. The ability to not only bear children, but in the case of quiver full women, bear a lot of children, is all they have to feel any self worth.

[Antimony]

Long time lurker (year and a half), first time poster. *nervous giggle* After seeing the previous Erika thread, I had to comment.

Good god she's nuts.

If I were one of the older girls I would drug Erika and take off in the middle of the night. But only after disorganizing her house, destroying the point chart and feeding the littles ALL THE JELLY BEANS.

No need to drug her -- she's sure in a haze of the fumes of her own bullshit.

Her latest Facebook stuff is passive aggression on the importance of nail cleaning. *smile*

[princessmahina]

I can't believe she didn't have a nail cleaning schedule before now. I'm so disappointed in her. :( Next you'll be telling me she hasn't coordinated every ones bathroom schedule.

[upkacrane]

Erica reminds me of my extremely controlling mother and the OCPD description also describes my mother perfectly. Our house was pristine at all times, we never had so much as water spots on a faucet. There were many toys we were not allowed to have (legos, paint, magic markers) just because they were messy. She was very controlling with food, we got lunch and dinner only, no breakfast, no snacks. She would go into a state of despair if anything unexpected happened. She would dress us in matching outfits (I'm four years older than my sister) and usually treated us as if we were both my sister's age.

All of it was so people would praise her for having a nice house and well behaved children. She could not have described our personalities, I don't think it ever occurred to her that we had personalities. She had a doll collection (that she claimed belonged to me and my sister). I think my sister and I were just two more dolls, props to make her look good. She would *beam* whenever someone said something about how well-behaved her children were or how nice her house looked. Her biggest fear seemed to be that somebody would say she was not a good housekeeper. We couldn't keep stuff under the bed because that was a sign of a bad housekeeper. She would regularly hiss "I will NOT have it said that I'm a bad housekeeper" in response to some horrible sin like having a single dirty dish in the sink or a magazine on the coffee table.

So, yes, I think Erica is all about being praised for painting the picture of perfection. It's why she goes into such detail about things like pricing for a yard sale. It's so she'll get compliments about how wonderful and organized she is.

Someone mentioned in a previous post that it's as if Erica even wants to control her kids' thoughts. My mother attempted to do this. Many times I was told that I'd "better not be thinking" certain things or better not be even thinking about certain topics.

Reading so many comments about how crazy Erica is actually makes me feel really good. I knew at a young age that my mother was crazy and unreasonable but it just makes me happy to hear it from others.

As for being that controlling being bad for kids. ..my therapist has told me many times that she's amazed that I never had a drug problem. I think the thing that saved me was that I loved to read so I knew none of this was normal, that there was a big world out there and, most importantly, that I would be free when I turned 18. I don't think Erica's kids have that.

NO BREAKFAST????

Not that the rest of the situation you describe is less relevant, but, oh boy, I can't imagine growing up on only two meals a day...I was constantly hungry as a child and, above all, as a teenager, because my mother would lock up the pantry and she'd say it was very selfish of me to want to snack and satisfy my hunger outside of the appointed mealtimes, but I did get to have breakfast along with lunch and dinner.

I'm so sorry you had to go through all that.

[Gimme a Free RV]

I think Erika Shupe and Sheldon Cooper would be an excellent fit. She could appreciate his bathroom schedule and the way he organizes his breakfast cereals. They would enjoy spending hours pouring over the roommate agreement.

Princessmahina, your avatar gives me the creeps every time I see it...until I realize that he looks a little bit like Mr. Haney from Green Acres.

Bill Gothard and Mr. Haney. When you come to think of it, they really aren't that different from one another: snake oil salesmen preying on those who can't think for themselves.

[Petrel]

I was surprised how many people were sorry when she miscarried. I personally was relieved. I don't believe in souls, so I don't consider the fetus a person who died, but a potential addition of another baby that did not materialize.

I know she must have felt sad and am sorry for that, but that home is not fit for a child. I wouldn't even want her raising a puppy, much less a baby.

[Brittany15]

I too have fallen down the rabbit hole of Bob Shupe's facebook page. One thing that is very interesting is that he hardly ever posts about his kids. I wonder if Bob tries to stay out of the house a lot.

[mango_fandango]

I was surprised how many people were sorry when she miscarried. I personally was relieved. I don't believe in souls, so I don't consider the fetus a person who died, but a potential addition of another baby that did not materialize.

I know she must have felt sad and am sorry for that, but that home is not fit for a child. I wouldn't even want her raising a puppy, much less a baby.

Unfortunately, she is raising a puppy, a little Shih Tzu. Read the threads in the archive. Nearly everyone was talking about how awkward shih tzus can be, how hard they can be to potty train, but the one she's got currently seems to be entirely biddable and well-behaved. I honestly don't know why she went for such a small dog with so many little kids around. Admittedly, a larger dog would've been awkward in her tiny house, but she believes her house is fine and good because it's all the wish of The Lord for them to be there. With eleven people in such a small space, it's gotta be cramped, but add a puppy into the mix- and such a boisterous breed as hers- it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Quick lowdown on the dog situation:

1) First dog was called Mocha, a 7 year old. Came from a family friend who had 2 other shih tzus. Unfortunately, he had major separation anxiety issues, and was peeing and pooping everywhere (mostly Sundays when they were at church). Erika can't deal with poop so she rehomes it.

2) Then a puppy called Muffin, acquired just a couple of days after Christmas. It seemed to be really feisty and aggressive, and was projected to weigh 18lbs eventually. Erika thought it'd be around 8lbs. Erika did not realise that the average weight of a Shih Tzu is between 4lbs and 16lbs. So she chucked this one too.

3) Another puppy called Happy. This one was 12 weeks at acquisition. They don't seem to have had any problems. He seems to be constantly in Karen or Melanie's arms; barely ever seen him on a lead. That's another thing: he seems to be entirely the responsibility of Karen and Melanie. Apart from a couple of pictures of them together in the "Meet Happy" album, Erika has not been seen holding Happy.

[Antimony]

My housemates parents got a shih tzu , got sick of how hard it was to train, and dumped her on my housemate.

6 college students, one shih tzu, one house. Should have been a recipe for diaster.

She shat everywhere. She peed everywhere. But we dealt with it and trained her eventually and cleaned up after her because somehow, apparently, 6 college kids who get in all kind of trouble can stand by a naughty shih tzu for longer than Erika. And one we never expected to own or planeed for -- she was dumped on him and us by association. We've since graduated but he still owns the dog.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Unfortunately, she is raising a puppy, a little Shih Tzu. Read the threads in the archive. Nearly everyone was talking about how awkward shih tzus can be, how hard they can be to potty train, but the one she's got currently seems to be entirely biddable and well-behaved. I honestly don't know why she went for such a small dog with so many little kids around. Admittedly, a larger dog would've been awkward in her tiny house, but she believes her house is fine and good because it's all the wish of The Lord for them to be there. With eleven people in such a small space, it's gotta be cramped, but add a puppy into the mix- and such a boisterous breed as hers- it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Quick lowdown on the dog situation:

1) First dog was called Mocha, a 7 year old. Came from a family friend who had 2 other shih tzus. Unfortunately, he had major separation anxiety issues, and was peeing and pooping everywhere (mostly Sundays when they were at church). Erika can't deal with poop so she rehomes it.

2) Then a puppy called Muffin, acquired just a couple of days after Christmas. It seemed to be really feisty and aggressive, and was projected to weigh 18lbs eventually. Erika thought it'd be around 8lbs. Erika did not realise that the average weight of a Shih Tzu is between 4lbs and 16lbs. So she chucked this one too.

3) Another puppy called Happy. This one was 12 weeks at acquisition. They don't seem to have had any problems. He seems to be constantly in Karen or Melanie's arms; barely ever seen him on a lead. That's another thing: he seems to be entirely the responsibility of Karen and Melanie. Apart from a couple of pictures of them together in the "Meet Happy" album, Erika has not been seen holding Happy.

Thanks for the puppy info. It's sad to think they are on their 3rd one. Will Happy stay a Shupe much longer? :?

[happy atheist]

I suppose I should be honored that Erika named her latest dog after me. :lol: :chi2:

[dilannsmom]

Ok--so on Smile Chuckle's latest post she talks about how to keep young children occupied while homeschooling older children. While there are a number of problems with what she thinks is appropriate, I find this particularly appalling: "This same son had a hard time keeping activities on their own towels (after many months of trying to train it) so we changed the plan a bit for him."

That word "it"? Is that in reference to the desired behavior, or, as I read it, HER SON? Most people I would give the benefit of the doubt...and we all know that she doesn't have time to proofread. But I can't help but believe that this is just another example of how she sees her children as things--not people. Ugh. This makes me SOOOOOOOO sad!

(Sorry if I'm the only neurotic one and this sentence makes complete sense to everybody else. I'm a high school English teacher and obsess over proofreading!)

P.S.--I can't quote any more! I have a whole lot of formatting options but I can't find the important one!!! So sorry.

[Mandysue]

I think Erika Shupe and Sheldon Cooper would be an excellent fit. She could appreciate his bathroom schedule and the way he organizes his breakfast cereals. They would enjoy spending hours pouring over the roommate agreement.

You beat me to it.

[princessmahina]

I think Erika Shupe and Sheldon Cooper would be an excellent fit. She could appreciate his bathroom schedule and the way he organizes his breakfast cereals. They would enjoy spending hours pouring over the roommate agreement.

Princessmahina, your avatar gives me the creeps every time I see it...until I realize that he looks a little bit like Mr. Haney from Green Acres.

Bill Gothard and Mr. Haney. When you come to think of it, they really aren't that different from one another: snake oil salesmen preying on those who can't think for themselves.

Ha! I guess Slughorn does look a bit like Haney. I never noticed it before.

[mango_fandango]

Ok--so on Smile Chuckle's latest post she talks about how to keep young children occupied while homeschooling older children. While there are a number of problems with what she thinks is appropriate, I find this particularly appalling: "This same son had a hard time keeping activities on their own towels (after many months of trying to train it) so we changed the plan a bit for him."

That word "it"? Is that in reference to the desired behavior, or, as I read it, HER SON? Most people I would give the benefit of the doubt...and we all know that she doesn't have time to proofread. But I can't help but believe that this is just another example of how she sees her children as things--not people. Ugh. This makes me SOOOOOOOO sad!

(Sorry if I'm the only neurotic one and this sentence makes complete sense to everybody else. I'm a high school English teacher and obsess over proofreading!)

P.S.--I can't quote any more! I have a whole lot of formatting options but I can't find the important one!!! So sorry.

I think she means the desired behaviour. Think being the operative word. And it's so true how she views them as objects. All we know is that Karen likes cooking and gardening and Melanie likes drawing. Anna Marie also likes cooking. The twins seem to do everything as one and have no separate personalities. The boys all love playing with Transformers and Lego and so on. There are vague differences between the girls but none at all between the boys. Melanie always strikes me as quieter than Karen, but who knows. And for some reason, Lilly strikes me as quieter than Lacey, but that's only going on the assumption that she's the younger twin (Erika originally decided that the first one would be Lilly and the second Lacey, but when she told people they got confused and said 'Lilian and Lacey', so she changed the names round). Erika also reckons that "Lilly" looks to be the most feminine way of spelling the name; I disagree. Lily seems much nicer to me, personally. The French way of spelling it- "Lilie"- seems more feminine still. And Lacey just reminds me of the material lace, but that's just personal preference.

Sorry for going off topic...

[apandaaries]

I think she means the desired behaviour. Think being the operative word. And it's so true how she views them as objects. All we know is that Karen likes cooking and gardening and Melanie likes drawing. Anna Marie also likes cooking. The twins seem to do everything as one and have no separate personalities. The boys all love playing with Transformers and Lego and so on. There are vague differences between the girls but none at all between the boys. Melanie always strikes me as quieter than Karen, but who knows. And for some reason, Lilly strikes me as quieter than Lacey, but that's only going on the assumption that she's the younger twin (Erika originally decided that the first one would be Lilly and the second Lacey, but when she told people they got confused and said 'Lilian and Lacey', so she changed the names round). Erika also reckons that "Lilly" looks to be the most feminine way of spelling the name; I disagree. Lily seems much nicer to me, personally. The French way of spelling it- "Lilie"- seems more feminine still. And Lacey just reminds me of the material lace, but that's just personal preference.

Sorry for going off topic...

I agree with both ideas about "it." I think it's just another Erika slip, where her words reveal a bit more than she means for them to. (Fellow English teacher here who finds her writing unbearable, but like a trainwreck, I can't look away.) It's also fun to watch where her *smiles!* are, since those generally flag some household stress.

Spent a bit of time on Bob's Facebook page. That he's conservative and obsessed with military history isn't especially surprising, but his racism is more open than I would have expected. He posted a poll about military service people being allowed to carry weapons on base and labelled the top, "just not the scary black ones." I assume "ones" refers to the "scary black" military personnel. His conservative focus makes me think he's more on-board with Erika's drill sergeant-style household than we may have imagined. He may want to leave, too (who wouldn't?), but he seems to value unquestioning obedience.

Those poor kids.

[Petrel]

I might be wrong but he may mean "scary black guns", meaning semiautomatic rifles. He probably means military personnel should be allowed to carry sidearms on base.

[Antimony]

I agree with both ideas about "it." I think it's just another Erika slip, where her words reveal a bit more than she means for them to. (Fellow English teacher here who finds her writing unbearable, but like a trainwreck, I can't look away.) It's also fun to watch where her *smiles!* are, since those generally flag some household stress.

Spent a bit of time on Bob's Facebook page. That he's conservative and obsessed with military history isn't especially surprising, but his racism is more open than I would have expected. He posted a poll about military service people being allowed to carry weapons on base and labelled the top, "just not the scary black ones." I assume "ones" refers to the "scary black" military personnel. His conservative focus makes me think he's more on-board with Erika's drill sergeant-style household than we may have imagined. He may want to leave, too (who wouldn't?), but he seems to value unquestioning obedience.

Those poor kids.

He does not mean black military personnel. He means black casing or furniture for the gun. A lot of people are made uncomfortable when a gun is hard black plastic but are not uncomfortable by a wooden bodied farm looking rifle, even if they are the same gun as far as ammunition, power, etc.

It's a thing in gun culture that is talked about -- people judge two rifles thay are mechanically identical and your right to own them often by how the gun looks. Does it look assault or farmy? And often the actual specs are ignored. He's being sarcastic about people's fear of black furniture firearms.

[apandaaries]

He does not mean black military personnel. He means black casing or furniture for the gun. A lot of people are made uncomfortable when a gun is hard black plastic but are not uncomfortable by a wooden bodied farm looking rifle, even if they are the same gun as far as ammunition, power, etc.

It's a thing in gun culture that is talked about -- people judge two rifles thay are mechanically identical and your right to own them often by how the gun looks. Does it look assault or farmy? And often the actual specs are ignored. He's being sarcastic about people's fear of black furniture firearms.

Really? I am not so aware of gun culture, so didn't realize that was an issue.

As a former military spouse, the idea of everyone having guns on base is horrific. There is so much drinking and tension already... No need to add loaded firearms to the mixture.

He does also have weird comments about racist pigeons, fear mongering about Obama's "race database," and some other odd moments.

[mango_fandango]

Erika posted something on the FB page (something to do with vaccines). My favourite comments:

Well said! I'm going to have to "unlike" this page because I'm sick of seeing anti vaccination crap. SOMEONE ACTUALLY SAID CRAP! Can't wait to see if Erika responds :nenner:

This page is becoming an anti vaccine gibberish conspiracy theory page.

So, my husband worked as a missionary in rural Africa (Zambia, to be specific). They think we are nuts to refuse these vaccinations for diseases which kill people. I would agree

The response to this:

I know, right? My husband is finishing his PhD in epidemiology right now. They have global health students from all over the world and the doctors from Africa actually can't believe the discussions that we have to have in the US about vaccines. They actually think it's a joke at first. And then they realize that these people are serious and they just can't process it. They've seen so much disease and death in their home countries.

Also:

Unfortunately it would appear that the public has no touch with reality having never seen these life threatening diseases & I predict children dying unnecessarily before things change.

Erika seems to be getting more and more pushback these days. People get suckered in by her organisation posts and such, then realise just how wacko she is. There are a couple of sympathisers, but those comments aren't getting many likes.

[DGayle]

https://www.facebook.com/LargeFamiliesO ... 98/?type=1

This is sad:

It is also invaluable practice with focusing their attention, sitting, and having limits on their freedom in preparation to begin homeschooling with a little curriculum starting at kindergarten age (age 4-6 depending on the child).

Bolding mine. It's sad because it would take having the will trained out of you to survive in that house.

[klynn]

Babycenter just featured them, on how they live in such a small house with 11 people. I know it's an old article, I've read it before I even knew who they were (and the level of crazy).

I didn't break the link, because it's BabyCenter.

http://blogs.babycenter.com/life_and_ho ... fb_wall_us

[HCB]

I once pinned something homeschooling related and it ended up being hers. We are secular homeschoolers but I was going by just the title and it was about organization or something (pin now, read later is what I usually do). Then I saw it was her blog. DELETE PIN DELETE PIN DELETE PIN!!! I could not delete it fast enough.

[princessmahina]

Babycenter just featured them, on how they live in such a small house with 11 people. I know it's an old article, I've read it before I even knew who they were (and the level of crazy).

I didn't break the link, because it's BabyCenter.

http://blogs.babycenter.com/life_and_ho ... fb_wall_us

As much as it pains me, I will admit that I am seriously jealous of her organization prowess. In the same boat, I probably would have been all lame and only had as many kids as I could comfortably feed and house.

In all seriousness though, I've taken a few of her tips and they worked pretty well for me. I'm keeping my books and other assorted weird dust-collectors though.

[DowntownAbbey]

I've never gone through the "tour" of the Shupe house. While her organization is impressive (since in this case it's actually necessary and doesn't seem overbearing), the kids' bedrooms just seem super depressing. Two sets of bunk beds, a closet, and one picture on the wall in each one.

Also, Erika's Bible verse on the wall reminds me of Sean Hannity's "Let not your heart be troubled" radio line...