Erika Shupe *fake smile* Large Families on Purpose *cringe*

[rosalitta]

Also from what I can find online there is little/no difference in testosterone levels between boys and girls at 3 years old. Some even cite a higher average testosterone level for girls at that age. I don't have time to go through and actually read journal articles on the subject right now, but I don't think Erika can blame testosterone on her boys' activeness. Not that it really changes things but the phrase "testosterone exploding from his darling little body" just really bothered me.

[lilith]

She should check with Kim Coghlan on that one. Just stick it in the back of your waistband! Even while carrying your babies/young children around, it's no big deal!

And when breastfeeding! And probably while birthing your latest blessing on the verandah....... I miss LIAS, the Coghlans are going positively liberal!

[itsthatonegirl]

Where do people live that they need to carry guns around with them? Is the crime rate really that high? Is there any proof(that doesn't come from like the NRA) that carrying a gun actually makes a person safer? I could see in some really violent neighborhoods where it might be safer to have a gun, but I'm wondering how common that actually is for most of the people who conceal carry.

Just a note, we own guns. They are kept locked and unloaded.

I live in a city of 40,000 about twenty miles north of Seattle. And you're right, it's not Compton or Cabrini Green, but there are still a lot of us who carry. Apparently there are nearly half a million concealed weapons permit holders in the state of Washington. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/concealed-carry-permits-skyrocket-especially-for-women/ Obviously, a lot of those must be in Seattle proper, but plenty are in the suburbs and rural areas, too.

I just typed most of a long ass story about how and why I became a regular carrier, and then I deleted it because it was getting too long. There's a lot of personal experience and unique psychological blueprint stuff for me that probably no one cares to read, lol. Basically, though, I think carrying empowers me as a woman. While my area may be relatively safe, crime still happens. Our vehicle was brazenly stolen from our driveway in 2012 or 2013. We have sex offenders living all over the place. And I'm just down the street from "Aurora Avenue", AKA Prostitute and Opiate Avenue.

For me, now that I have carried, I don't like not carrying. Prior to ever having carried, were I to find myself in a victim situation, I might say to myself, "Man, I really wish I had a gun right now." It would be a fleeting thought, no more. But now? I know I'd be kicking myself and either saying, "WHY did I choose today to not have my gun?" Or, if I was at home, it would be, "FUCK. My gun is like fifty fucking feet away, locked in a box."

To sum it up, it's no skin off my back to carry. I'm used to it now, in much the same way I was used to having a pager clipped to my jeans when I was a teen. There are occasions when I don't carry, but for the most part, I do.

[JillyO]

This is all I have to say about that:

*slowly backs out of the room*

[formergothardite]

I wonder what the statistics are when it comes to people really being helped by having a gun on them. From just my personal experience with knowing lots of people who conceal carry, it hasn't helped at all. It didn't prevent them from being victims of crime and in general it isn't a good idea to gun a person down if they are trying to rob you. My mom grew up with a guy who went to prison for shooting and killing a person who was trying to steal his car.

Honestly, I'm scared at the idea that when I'm out in public half the people might be carrying guns. Because most people aren't trained to be an expert shot under very stressful situations and way too many are just looking for an opportunity to shoot someone and be the "hero".

[morri]

Nobody is carrying a gun around here ... I cant imagine it either, when would the moment arise to use a gun?

[formergothardite]

Nobody is carrying a gun around here ... I cant imagine it either, when would the moment arise to use a gun?

From the people I know who conceal carry, they have this idea that if they were attacked or robbed they would be able to quickly grab their gun and defend themselves just like people do in books and movies. But in reality is that it didn't happen and the gun did not prevent them from being victims of crime.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I used to open carry in alaska, for several years. Because I lived and worked part of the year in the bush on mining sites and had to worry about bears and such.

Never had to draw. But I did target practice almost every day and knew my guns, how to use and clean them. Now that I no longer shoot regularly I no longer carry because I would Prolly freeze up and the evil bad guy would get the gun...or I would do something terrible like miss my target and hit a bus load of kindergarteners or something else equally egregious.

Edited, because I can't write and phone typing...

[itsthatonegirl]

From the people I know who conceal carry, they have this idea that if they were attacked or robbed they would be able to quickly grab their gun and defend themselves just like people do in books and movies. But in reality is that it didn't happen and the gun did not prevent them from being victims of crime.

It happens literally on a daily basis in this country. The mainstream media just doesn't usually report it, or you only hear about it if it's local to you. The Concealed Nation facebook page https://www.facebook.com/ccwnation?fref=ts is a good source.

[formergothardite]

It happens literally on a daily basis in this country. The mainstream media just doesn't usually report it, or you only hear about it if it's local to you. The Concealed Nation facebook page https://www.facebook.com/ccwnation?fref=ts is a good source.

Well that first story was a perfect example of how conceal carrying could escalate a situation. :shock: Two crazy people with guns and one ended up dead over a road incident. Doyle, who had a conceal carry permit held another family at gun point after gunning down the father. All while trying to claim it was self-defense when the 911 calls show it isn't. That guy is a murderer and needs to be in jail.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but from what I have read there seems to be no studies that show that in general carrying a gun actually makes you safer. And I from the people I know who were victims of crime and had a gun on them, it didn't help. It gave them the illusion of safety, but when it came down to it, they were victims just like anyone else. And like I said before, most people are not highly trained to shoot accurately while in a stressful situation.

[apandaaries]

Well that first story was a perfect example of how conceal carrying could escalate a situation. :shock: Two crazy people with guns and one ended up dead over a road incident. Doyle, who had a conceal carry permit held another family at gun point after gunning down the father. All while trying to claim it was self-defense when the 911 calls show it isn't. That guy is a murderer and needs to be in jail.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but from what I have read there seems to be no studies that show that in general carrying a gun actually makes you safer. And I from the people I know who were victims of crime and had a gun on them, it didn't help. It gave them the illusion of safety, but when it came down to it, they were victims just like anyone else. And like I said before, most people are not highly trained to shoot accurately while in a stressful situation.

That first story on the facebook page is terrible. That man really just murdered the other man. I'm reminded of Zimmerman's overzealous pretend policing of the neighborhood and the corpse produced by his reckless machismo.

I only know one person who regularly carries a weapon, and he's a cop. I am the ex-wife of a man of color and very aware of the potential for a-hole cops, but this guy isn't one of those. Instead, he's a very devoted father who was, like every other parent I know, devastated by Sandy Hook. Our reactions were very different though: I thought it was the moment to really regulate and control the firearms in this country; he seemed to think if he were armed and nearby, he could have made a difference. He IS a cop, though, and trained for horrific scenarios. I've also met other cops who I'd prefer WEREN'T armed nonstop, and the thought of the general public -- or even a quarter of it -- regularly carrying concealed firearms terrifies me.

I understand we all react differently to fear, and that's what most of the concealed carry stuff is about. I don't understand how we, as a society, have decided that MORE guns are the solution to the myriad problems we have here, though. And I find it even more disturbing when people want or use guns when their property is threatened. Property is replaceable; human lives are far less so. Perhaps that's the triumph of capitalism: property trumping* human rights.

*Side note: I notice I now dislike this verb, thanks to our loudest presidential candidate.

[mango_fandango]

That first story on the facebook page is terrible. That man really just murdered the other man. I'm reminded of Zimmerman's overzealous pretend policing of the neighborhood and the corpse produced by his reckless machismo.

I only know one person who regularly carries a weapon, and he's a cop. I am the ex-wife of a man of color and very aware of the potential for a-hole cops, but this guy isn't one of those. Instead, he's a very devoted father who was, like every other parent I know, devastated by Sandy Hook. Our reactions were very different though: I thought it was the moment to really regulate and control the firearms in this country; he seemed to think if he were armed and nearby, he could have made a difference. He IS a cop, though, and trained for horrific scenarios. I've also met other cops who I'd prefer WEREN'T armed nonstop, and the thought of the general public -- or even a quarter of it -- regularly carrying concealed firearms terrifies me.

I understand we all react differently to fear, and that's what most of the concealed carry stuff is about. I don't understand how we, as a society, have decided that MORE guns are the solution to the myriad problems we have here, though. And I find it even more disturbing when people want or use guns when their property is threatened. Property is replaceable; human lives are far less so. Perhaps that's the triumph of capitalism: property trumping* human rights.

*Side note: I notice I now dislike this verb, thanks to our loudest presidential candidate.

I can totally understand this; it was a school massacre in this country that made private ownership of handguns illegal (the Dunblane school massacre). For other kinds of gun you have to have a licence/certificate. I understand that laws vary by state in America. (I find this interesting, because Britain isn't divided into separate, self-governing regions. We have counties (different to American ones) but the law is the same everywhere.)

I totally get your fear thing too. I imagine it's bad enough seeing that someone has a gun (open carry) but not knowing whether they do or not must be pretty terrifying.

[tankgirl]

Having a gun on you in a crime means nothing for most people, stats say, or it can escalate the crime faster. My friend a cops daughter, hunter and well trained with guns, still was robbed by gun point even while carrying. She admitted, she didn't feel she could safely win in a draw, and it was better to lose her stuff then try to make things worse.

Also losing a friend to a in the home, family member shooting, and watching a neighbor who was also a teen, almost lose her life, due to domestic violence, and a shooting, with a family gun, and recently losing another friend, a grandmother to domestic violence, with again as family gun, I have sadly lived the statistics, a gun in the house raises your chances of someone in your family, being killed by themselves or family, is much higher, then your risk if being hurt or killed by an intruder.

I know people who like guns, but don't get them myself at all. My friends didn't live in unsafe areas. Several if them followed safety procedures and had training with them, so did at least two of the people who pulled the triggers and changed peoples lives.

I just don't get the American fantasy with guns.

[Maggie Mae]

Guns don't terrify me. I live in a state where most people, even the liberal democrats have at least one gun. You don't need a permit to conceal carry. I know when I go out in public, people have guns. The open carry people wearing NRA tee shirts frighten me a little, because I know they will be the first to over react and escalate a situation. But I really don't think about it very often. I'm happy when my SO brings a gun with us when we backpack. I'm even happier that we don't have to use it.

My American experience is different though. I'm more afraid of the police in other states.

[apandaaries]

I'll just keep the thread drifting with this story about teenagers who knocked on the front and back doors of a house they mistook for a friend's home. The cop who lived there thought they must be burglars (it was "early Sunday morning," so I think we can assume after midnight but before 6 am -- maybe), so he came out shooting. Interestingly, the article also says the TEENAGERS were detained after the cop's little shooting spree. So here we have a trained police officer acting crazy when teenagers knocked on his door. Stories like this don't give me tons of confidence about the rest of the population having easy, ongoing access to firearms, even though you can see me attempting to rationalize (some -- not this one) cops carrying weapons above. Suppose some level of cognitive dissonance is necessary for most Americans; I'm no exception. Link unbroken because Gawker: http://gawker.com/prosecutors-cop-shot- ... 1721231216

[apandaaries]

Guns don't terrify me. I live in a state where most people, even the liberal democrats have at least one gun. You don't need a permit to conceal carry. I know when I go out in public, people have guns. The open carry people wearing NRA tee shirts frighten me a little, because I know they will be the first to over react and escalate a situation. But I really don't think about it very often. I'm happy when my SO brings a gun with us when we backpack. I'm even happier that we don't have to use it.

My American experience is different though. I'm more afraid of the police in other states.

This is an essay by Leslie Marmon Silko on why she carries a gun, which I read in my classes and has apparently garnered enough attention to find a space online in an open carry website: http://www.cavesofcoral.com/ArmedandSafe/combat.html

She makes a strong case here. I'm always deterred by the stats which inform me that either I or someone in my family will have a highly increased chance of suffering harm from guns, should one be easily accessible in the home. I also can't get over the fact that guns are designed to kill; I have no desire to kill another human.

But my American experience also includes a lot of hours in classrooms. When I began teaching, school shootings were not as common as they are today (and my first school was just about as inner city and weapon-ridden as possible). Now, it's typical for most schools to train faculty on armed shooter scenarios. Words cannot express how deeply I despise this. My emotional reaction is compounded by the fact that I've had more than a fair number of emotionally/psychologically troubled students in my various classrooms, and I know there is very little help for them out there. Our mental health care system in the US is severely lacking. For the most troubled (read: potentially dangerous) students out there, all I can do is fill out a form for campus mental health services. A friend and colleague became friends with campus security when she had a very troubled (diagnosed as schizophrenic by some mental health care workers, whom he saw rather haphazardly. When he missed class, he couldn't tell my friend if he'd been voluntarily or involuntarily committed; he just didn't recall, but it'd been a 72 hour mandatory hold) student.

Please note that I don't want to access these students private health information, but I want them to be able to find better help out there. And it just doesn't exist in this country. We'd rather cut taxes (again) than fund mental health care, apparently. So in this US society, we have people with very limited options in terms of upward mobility, LOTS of mental health issues, and easy access to firearms. I would think that we would HAVE to make serious changes with such a situation, but thus far, most of the changes have merely increased access to guns.

I understand that people love their guns and second amendment, but I would like tighter regulations and better systems to track what is out there.

[DowntownAbbey]

20/20 had a good segment on the possibility of defending yourself with a gun against a campus shooter. They even did some trials with students that had apparently received better training than some states require for concealed carry (at least as of 2009). While the trials aren't carried out to full academic rigor (low sample size for one), they do bring up some interesting points related to gun ownership for safety purposes.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/defend-gun-7312540

[polecat]

I live in what is considered a dangerous area. Crime is extremely common -- crimes against people, not just property. 4,000 assaults per 100k, 5,500 burglaries and thefts per 100k, etc. My husband is a licensed firearm instructor who trains LEOs how to shoot in a variety of situations. iow, my husband is a damned good shot. He doesn't concealed or open carry. I don't carry.

Unfortunately, TV and movies have given us the idea that he who has the gun has the power. That's just not always the case. Furthermore, not everyone who is carrying is that mythological "good man with a gun." If I'm with my children in a public area and there is one bad shooter, I'd sure as hell prefer not to have some essentially untrained cowboy (and sorry, but CC classes are not nearly as thorough as people like to think they are) popping off his own weapon trying to be a hero anywhere near me. One shooter is plenty to worry about. Multiple shooters with the fantasy of being that "good guy with a gun"? No thank you. This is the kind of thing that gets people killed -- innocent people.

[formergothardite]

I live in what is considered a dangerous area. Crime is extremely common -- crimes against people, not just property. 4,000 assaults per 100k, 5,500 burglaries and thefts per 100k, etc. My husband is a licensed firearm instructor who trains LEOs how to shoot in a variety of situations. iow, my husband is a damned good shot. He doesn't concealed or open carry. I don't carry.

Unfortunately, TV and movies have given us the idea that he who has the gun has the power. That's just not always the case. Furthermore, not everyone who is carrying is that mythological "good man with a gun." If I'm with my children in a public area and there is one bad shooter, I'd sure as hell prefer not to have some essentially untrained cowboy (and sorry, but CC classes are not nearly as thorough as people like to think they are) popping off his own weapon trying to be a hero anywhere near me. One shooter is plenty to worry about. Multiple shooters with the fantasy of being that "good guy with a gun"? No thank you. This is the kind of thing that gets people killed -- innocent people.

ITA. It does make me nervous to know that when I'm out with my kids there are who knows how many people walking around with guns. And some of these people are just waiting for any tiny opportunity to use their gun.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I'm a military veteran, and the only people who could openly (or concealed) carry on base were security forces/military police and anyone who just checked out, is checking in, or is registering their personal weapon with said SF/MPs and either taking it from the secure, locked gun safe or returning it to said secure, locked gun safe before or after using said weapon for a specific purpose. I cannot imagine a college campus having a different policy (other than "nope, no guns, not on campus, not for any reason, nope") than the United States Armed Forces.

I'm much more comfortable with emergency training scenarios that involve "get out of the situation as quickly and safely as possible, call for help because the local emergency numbers are already saved on your phone, RIGHT" and letting people who know how to disarm a dangerous person do their job. I have veteran pals who know exactly how to disarm and subdue them, and others (like myself) who only had the basic training on that subject. I'll forego being the Real American Hero in favor of getting myself (and possibly others) out of harm's way.

[DGayle]

Not that it really changes things but the phrase "testosterone exploding from his darling little body" just really bothered me.

To me, it sounds like she's literally seeing him as a short little man instead of a child.

[DGayle]

I live in a city of 40,000 about twenty miles north of Seattle. And you're right, it's not Compton or Cabrini Green, but there are still a lot of us who carry. Apparently there are nearly half a million concealed weapons permit holders in the state of Washington. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/concealed-carry-permits-skyrocket-especially-for-women/ Obviously, a lot of those must be in Seattle proper, but plenty are in the suburbs and rural areas, too.

I'm really not concerned about people who get proper permits and holsters. Somebody wanting to go shoot up a theater won't care about more minor laws like permits when planning to violate major laws like murder.

I do wish those gun purses were banned. You really can't maintain total control at all times when you have a gun in something that gets tossed around.

[DGayle]

I wonder what the statistics are when it comes to people really being helped by having a gun on them. From just my personal experience with knowing lots of people who conceal carry, it hasn't helped at all. It didn't prevent them from being victims of crime and in general it isn't a good idea to gun a person down if they are trying to rob you. My mom grew up with a guy who went to prison for shooting and killing a person who was trying to steal his car.

Honestly, I'm scared at the idea that when I'm out in public half the people might be carrying guns. Because most people aren't trained to be an expert shot under very stressful situations and way too many are just looking for an opportunity to shoot someone and be the "hero".

Stories like this don't make news often, but a man shot at 4 people, including a baby. He was taken down by a man with a legal concealed carry. He saved the lives of his relatives.

[Georgiana]

I live in a city of 40,000 about twenty miles north of Seattle.

I live in a city of ~105,000 about 26 miles north of Seattle. Howdy, neighbor!

[sockinshoe]

My SO lives in an area where everybody carries at least a knife. It's just become so normal that by now it's seen as suspicious to be UNarmed in public. I grew up in big cities and to me the concept of carrying a weapon (other than maybe a pocket knife or pepper spray on my keychain) makes me seriously uncomfortable. My worry is that once the bad guy with the gun has dispatched of the well meaning guy with the gun, he has another loaded weapon available. I think you should only carry a gun if you are trained and are fully comfortable with the idea of killing someone. Not shooting in the leg/arm/shoulder, but shooting to kill.