The Duggars' Megyn Kelly Lie-a-Thon Shit Show- Part 2

[jinseng]

I'd really like to know whether the girls shared this info with their future hubbys during their courtship? Does anyone know if this was asked?

[hockeymoo]

So, let me get this straight.

Someone is gay, or transgendered, or wears revealing clothing, or (shock!) no clothing - the Duggars are fine with judging these people and condemning their behaviors.

But as soon as it's the DUGGARS who are being scrutinized for their choices and behaviors, it's a sob fest and everyone is out to get them and the media is so cruel?

How fucking privileged are these people!

[TaterThotHotDish]

If the Duggars were black we wouldn't be talking about it. Because TLC would never have given them a show. And if TLC DID give them a show, no way 4 million of God-fearing white Christians would be watching it. And if they DID somehow watch it, the WORLD would have come down on that 15 yo (and he would Always be referred to as 15, not 14) black boy who raped all his sisters.

Also, race aside, if that 14 yo Joshie had taken out his 'interest' in girls by killing a couple of them, wanna bet he'd be considered a man for trial? Children as young as 10 are being tried as adults for murdering other children, but boys will be boys, yanno.

Exactly ALL OF THIS!!! A 12 year old was murdered for holding a toy gun...the Duggar kids, meh, it's part of their lifestyle...as is molestation, clearly.

[SassyPants]

Bill Maher is laying into them right now. Ahhh, it's wiped the pain of the girls' interview and fox commentary right out of my brain.

BTW, I think there is more dirt to be found in the pedo cop encounter. It looks pretty clear that there was no report made and that's unheard of in police procedure. Can you imagine Jimboob, Joshie and the witness came in, went into a back room and talked to the guy and then left. If a few weeks later Fuckaby is assasinated They could turn around and say, "We told the police and they ignored us." Every interaction with the public gets a case number. In our town even if they go to check out a suspicious car (like one occupied by a black person in our white suburb." The cop reads off the license number, confirms whether or not the driver is the registered owner and if not reads off his license number. This happens even if someone comes out of the house and gets in the car and it's clear the reason they are there. There is always a paper trail. Jimboob wouldn't need to invent a witness if there was a report.

Makes JB's quick default to "bribe" on Wednesday interesting, doesn't it?

[BreakfastClub]

So, let me get this straight.

Someone is gay, or transgendered, or wears revealing clothing, or (shock!) no clothing - the Duggars are fine with judging these people and condemning their behaviors.

But as soon as it's the DUGGARS who are being scrutinized for their choices and behaviors, it's a sob fest and everyone is out to get them and the media is so cruel?

How fucking privileged are these people!

I realized how they justify it during the interview tonight. They think it's fine to criticize those who are currently "sinning" according to their interpretation, but that it isn't right to criticize Josh because he is no longer sinning and has done his penance. This is their rationalization. One of them said something along the lines that Josh has not "continued" to do it, which to them, means he can no longer be judged for his sin because it's over and God has forgiven him. This way of thinking seems very common among fundies. It's very convenient for them to believe that because they will always be forgiven, but people who don't believe in God, or who are of a different religion, can never truly be absolved of any wrongdoing.

[usmcmom]

I'd really like to know whether the girls shared this info with their future hubbys during their courtship? Does anyone know if this was asked?

I've been wondering this as well. They were never allowed to have private conversations even after they were engaged, if I remember correctly; so anything said to the future husbands would have been said in front of the parents. That, to me, means that IF they told their fiancés, it was probably based on a pre-determined scripted written by JB. I know we are not supposed to speculate, but I can see the parents telling Jill and Jessa not to tell their future husbands.

I wish we'd see some anger from Ben and Derick, but that will never happen. We don't know what they are thinking but it sure appears they are following the carefully written Duggar script. If they wouldn't stand up to Jim Bob and Josh over this, they won't stand up to them over anything.

[jqlgoblue]

So, let me get this straight.

Someone is gay, or transgendered, or wears revealing clothing, or (shock!) no clothing - the Duggars are fine with judging these people and condemning their behaviors.

But as soon as it's the DUGGARS who are being scrutinized for their choices and behaviors, it's a sob fest and everyone is out to get them and the media is so cruel?

How fucking privileged are these people!

So, I'd be careful here b/c there are lots of Christians (I grew up in a town of 100k of them) that see things exactly this way. It is not Duggar celebrity driving this. It is a mindset that Christians who have a personal relationship with Jesus will be forgiven no matter what they do, however terrible. BUT everyone else basically is terrible awful b/c they do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. It's really about Jesus.

Also, RE Derrick & Ben. Remember, they think this way too and so Josh would be forgiven. At most they could be upset they weren't told (if they weren't told). It's also really easy to be in denial and believe the "everyone was asleep and it only happened 5x" story". It's a lot harder, and takes deeper thought and critical thinking than these two have shown, to wrap your head around anything much worse.

[wildlingrose]

I am curious if Ben and Derrick knew and when they were told, but I'd rather see Jill and Jessa get angry at Jim Bob and Michelle and Josh and see themselves as wronged and not property passed from man to man. I'd like to see them retire from public, reflect, heal and speak later. Very early stages of healing here and longer this spectacle goes on the more it would feel like persecution and intrusion on privacy. I wish media would teach healthy boundaries but that's a whole other magical thinking error.

I know this stirs a lot of people's abuse issues. I hope it brings attention in positive ways and help to people that need it.

[servants-heart]

OMG!!!! The utter hypocrisy!

Jill: "the tabloids that released this are used to exploiting women"

Jessa: "the media company InTouch is under is used to making objects of women"

GIRLS! You are so brainwashed! Your entire belief system revolves around the exploitation of women! I actually CAN'T EVEN! If the objectification of women isn't allowing anything but popping out babies and serving your husband unquestioningly for your entire life, I don't know what is!

Edited to add: by no means am I dismissing what the girls went through when this came out, because I'm sure it's been an absolutely awful and horrendous couple of weeks for them. But I really don't think people from a fundamentalist Quiverfull lifestyle can comment on the objectification of women in the mainstream media (which, of course, is very real) without truly taking a hard look at their own lives.

[Cochise]

So, I'd be careful here b/c there are lots of Christians (I grew up in a town of 100k of them) that see things exactly this way. It is not Duggar celebrity driving this. It is a mindset that Christians who have a personal relationship with Jesus will be forgiven no matter what they do, however terrible. BUT everyone else basically is terrible awful b/c they do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. It's really about Jesus.

Also, RE Derrick & Ben. Remember, they think this way too and so Josh would be forgiven. At most they could be upset they weren't told (if they weren't told). It's also really easy to be in denial and believe the "everyone was asleep and it only happened 5x" story". It's a lot harder, and takes deeper thought and critical thinking than these two have shown, to wrap your head around anything much worse.

I remember reading a Scottish book from about 1801 by James Hogg called "Confessions of a Justified Sinner" several years ago. It was about a man who believed he'd received a message from God saying that God had saved him, so (to cut a long story short) he concluded that whatever he wanted to do was okay--he was saved! No matter what happened, he wasn't going to Hell! It had been written in the Big Book Upstairs that he was a saved soul and had been written there from the beginning of time, he believed. He didn't much like his brother, who was a perfectly decent and Godly man. So he killed him. No problem, though! The murderer was saved! I forget exactly how many people he ended up killing because (as he figured) he'd been saved, and so whatever he did was virtuous, and there were a lot of people he disliked. The author of the book meant it to be satirical, but there were certainly many people when it was written who followed exactly that kind of theology. I'd hoped it had died out in the last 200+ years!

[episkey]

This family has given no indication they would shun a child who left the fold. They still talk to jim bobs sister who had amy out of wedlock. Michelle has a lesbian sister whom they speak to.

But at some point you even have to realize your sibs are not being helped by your staying. Get out make a life and tell your sibs your door is always open if they leave.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but Libby Anne wrote about this last year http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... nders.html , specifically:

As I’ve noted, the Duggars endorse the childrearing teachings of S. M. Davis, promoting them on their website and writing that they have “have helped us raising our children.†What does S. M. Davis have to do with shunning, you ask? We’re getting there! The Duggars’ 2009 form email reply pointed people to an article called “Help for Rebels under 18.†That article contains a link to its sister article, “Help for Rebels over Age 18.†Given the Duggars’ effusive praise of S. M. Davis and how much his teachings have helped them, we can assume that they agree with the bulk of his teachings (if they didn’t, you would think they would offer caveats). What does S. M. Davis say in this article? Let’s take a look:

"If you are dealing with an older sibling that has younger siblings still living at home then you will have to cut off ALL communication between the rebellious young adult and the other children. That means ALL forms of communication. Phone calls, e-mails, letters and even eye contact! You may think this is a bit harsh and drastic but if you don’t break all communication then you will begin the domino effect"

What this means is that if one of the older Duggar children “rebels,†he or she risks being cut off from any contact with her siblings who still live at home. And they very likely know that, too.

The whole thing is worth a read, but the quoted part is basically the most pertinent to the discussion. These girls have reared, and are rearing, their own siblings. The emotional attachment and protectiveness they must feel towards their siblings is much more like parent-child than child-child, and they know that if they break ranks they'll be essentially losing custody of their kids. Breaking ranks when those are the stakes is going to take even more strength than just trying to break free of the other culty programming. I certainly don't blame the girls at all for not doing so.

[Helenaaa]

Long time lurker, first time poster. First off all, I was so shocked to hear what Josh did. But what is upsetting me more is that his PARENTS are being interviewed.

[usmcmom]

I am angry that Megyn never really pushed Jim Bob and Michelle on what the safeguards were. They and the daughters just mentioned some vague household rules. A true journalist would have said something like this:

"Has it occurred to you that if there is a person living in your home AGAINST WHOM YOU NEED SAFEGUARDS, you should remove that person from your home??????"

And now we know Jill thinks its just normal to place these same safeguards. These kids had such a suffocating childhood anyway, then to have these bizarre "safeguards" in place...wow...those parents really let Josh drain all the fun out of that household, didn't they? They punished all the children for his criminal acts.

I would think the only safeguard Jill and Jessa need to place for their children is "No visits with Uncle Josh. Period."

[FundieWatcher]

it is insane to me, or at least the most insane part of all of this, that Josh's actions will affect 18 other kids for a very long long time. or rather jimbobs actions really. it will be the elephant in the room for kids who really didn't even grow up with Josh

[twinmama]

So, let me get this straight.

Someone is gay, or transgendered, or wears revealing clothing, or (shock!) no clothing - the Duggars are fine with judging these people and condemning their behaviors.

But as soon as it's the DUGGARS who are being scrutinized for their choices and behaviors, it's a sob fest and everyone is out to get them and the media is so cruel?

How fucking privileged are these people!

Everybody knows that being gay is a choice, but molesting people you just can't help!!

[violynn]

I remember reading a Scottish book from about 1801 by James Hogg called "Confessions of a Justified Sinner" several years ago. It was about a man who believed he'd received a message from God saying that God had saved him, so (to cut a long story short) he concluded that whatever he wanted to do was okay--he was saved! No matter what happened, he wasn't going to Hell! It had been written in the Big Book Upstairs that he was a saved soul and had been written there from the beginning of time, he believed. He didn't much like his brother, who was a perfectly decent and Godly man. So he killed him. No problem, though! The murderer was saved! I forget exactly how many people he ended up killing because (as he figured) he'd been saved, and so whatever he did was virtuous, and there were a lot of people he disliked. The author of the book meant it to be satirical, but there were certainly many people when it was written who followed exactly that kind of theology. I'd hoped it had died out in the last 200+ years!

This is the belief Old Fashioned Missionary Baptists espouse. I always thought it a funny loophole and asked my parents after I was saved if it really meant I could do whatever I wanted and not be in trouble God=wise. The way they explained it was that being saved, Jesus was embedded in my soul, and if I was taking care of that relationship I wouldn't *want* to do bad things. But that yes, I was always 'safe' b/c saved.

Another thing that kept me mostly on the straight and narrow early on was Mom saying "Jesus IS coming back someday...you should always try to consider what you might be doing when Jesus comes back and sees you". Talk about a mood killer when I was in the backseat with my boyfriend and that popped in my mind! :cracking-up:

[SassyPants]

Jill R puts her baby in a crate.

Jill DD- plans to isolate Izzy from his future sibs

Boy, what changes can occur over a couple of weeks.

Stop having kids that you cannot properly raise, monitor, love and care for.

[JenniferJuniper]

I am angry that Megyn never really pushed Jim Bob and Michelle on what the safeguards were. They and the daughters just mentioned some vague household rules. A true journalist would have said something like this:

"Has it occurred to you that if there is a person living in your home AGAINST WHOM YOU NEED SAFEGUARDS, you should remove that person from your home??????"

And now we know Jill thinks its just normal to place these same safeguards. These kids had such a suffocating childhood anyway, then to have these bizarre "safeguards" in place...wow...those parents really let Josh drain all the fun out of that household, didn't they? They punished all the children for his criminal acts.

I would think the only safeguard Jill and Jessa need to place for their children is "No visits with Uncle Josh. Period."

Whatever "safeguards" they put in place after he first confessed (or was found out) he still managed to assault a 5 year old while she was sitting on his lap a year later. So I'm guessing they didn't really do too much.

I maintain we really have no idea how much Josh actually did to these girls. This was all whitewashed by Jim Bob and Michelle when the cops caught wind of the abuse thanks to Oprah (seriously, you can't make this shit up). Josh was "tamer" later on? Even Jessa used the phrase "preying upon a child". Jessa and Jill know more than they are telling. And I'm betting their husbands knew nothing and still don't know everything.

[Hooligan]

Whatever "safeguards" they put in place after he first confessed (or was found out) he still managed to assault a 5 year old while she was sitting on his lap a year later. So I'm guessing they didn't really do too much.

I maintain we really have no idea how much Josh actually did to these girls. This was all whitewashed by Jim Bob and Michelle when the cops caught wind of the abuse thanks to Oprah (seriously, you can't make this shit up). Josh was "tamer" later on? Even Jessa used the phrase "preying upon a child". Jessa and Jill know more than they are telling. And I'm betting their husbands knew nothing and still don't know everything.

What really bothers me is that there have to be "safeguards" at all!!! It is NOT normal for a boy, any boy to have a sexual interest in his sister! It should be possible for sisters and brothers to say go camping and sleep in the same tent with out incident. Josh is SICK. He needs to be evaluated and treated and not allowed around any child even his own. The only "safeguard" should be his ass in a treatment program.

[SassyPants]

Whatever "safeguards" they put in place after he first confessed (or was found out) he still managed to assault a 5 year old while she was sitting on his lap a year later. So I'm guessing they didn't really do too much.

I maintain we really have no idea how much Josh actually did to these girls. This was all whitewashed by Jim Bob and Michelle when the cops caught wind of the abuse thanks to Oprah (seriously, you can't make this shit up). Josh was "tamer" later on? Even Jessa used the phrase "preying upon a child". Jessa and Jill know more than they are telling. And I'm betting their husbands knew nothing and still don't know everything.

IMO, they didn't put any safeguards in place until they were known to "the system."

Unless the babysitter was abused first, how did a young girl get left on a couch, overnigh,t in that home???? Clearly, there were no safeguards in place to protect her.

[Pandie5]

I think a better comparison for the hypocrisy, without attacking their faith is: they campaign against a lifestyle that has not been proven to hurt children in any way. To keep a man who sees themselves as a woman, out of women's bathrooms, where children are, or at least should be, accompanied by adults. (Won't men be uncomfortable knowing someone who considers themselves a woman, is in the men's room?). But they are now believe the law to NOT seal the records of sex offenders of minority age, should be changed. When it has been proven that these individuals do have a higher likelihood of offending again. And not in a public restroom, but in schools, churches, rehab programs, where they obtain employment and have time to groom children... The whole purpose of NOT sealing their records is so the public and employers, social organizations, etc, can search records to decide how best to keep their kids safe...Sorry, but all parents have a right to keep our children away from Josh Duggar. Ma & Pa Duggar felt strong enough about it to put locks on their kids' bedrooms. But they want us to trust him? I wonder if FRC is wishing they had done an employee criminal background check instead of taking JB word

[SassyPants]

I think a better comparison for the hypocrisy, without attacking their faith is: they campaign against a lifestyle that has not been proven to hurt children in any way. To keep a man who sees themselves as a woman, out of women's bathrooms, where children are, or at least should be, accompanied by adults. (Won't men be uncomfortable knowing someone who considers themselves a woman, is in the men's room?). But they are now believe the law to NOT seal the records of sex offenders of minority age, should be changed. When it has been proven that these individuals do have a higher likelihood of offending again. And not in a public restroom, but in schools, churches, rehab programs, where they obtain employment and have time to groom children... The whole purpose of NOT sealing their records is so the public and employers, social organizations, etc, can search records to decide how best to keep their kids safe...Sorry, but all parents have a right to keep our children away from Josh Duggar. Ma & Pa Duggar felt strong enough about it to put locks on their kids' bedrooms. But they want us to trust him? I wonder if FRC is wishing they had done an employee criminal background check instead of taking JB word

According to the Pastor who had an audio of his show re the Duggars linked to FJ, The FRC was informed, by this pastor himself, re Josh's history.

If this pastor is to be believed, the FRC knew and hired him anyway.

The old, roll of the dice, just like JB, that no one would find out.

[Pandie5]

Someone out there has knowledge of what was in the letter sent to Oprah. The person who sent it is possibly dead. The babysitter knows if she was asleep too. I hope someone steps forward if there are major differences in their stories. Then at least they can't blame the big bad liberal media for attacking them. Seriously, smeone in THEIR CHURCH called them out years ago. If they had become advocates back then, it would be water under the bridge. But they hid it. And now they only care about rehabbimg Josh's political career.

[ljohnson2006]

I wonder if TLC tried to stop them from doing this.

[Pandie5]

According to the Pastor who had an audio of his show re the Duggars linked to FJ, The FRC was informed, by this pastor himself, re Josh's history.

If this pastor is to be believed, the FRC knew and hired him anyway.

The old, roll of the dice, just like JB, that no one would find out.

Interesting. So he thought it was enough of an issue or at least a potential PR nightmare to tell them. Was it told up front to prevent the record from being read by FRC? Why did Josh or JB not tell? And why does the pastor get to be the gate keeper of that information? Given out when he deems it necessary. Would he have stepped forward if Josh applied to work in a daycare? Or as a camp counselor?