The Duggars' Megyn Kelly Lie-a-Thon Shit Show- Part 2

[skulduggery]

My main issue with framing the issue as "it's common for teenage boys to do XYZ" is that it eventually defaults back to "welp, boys will be boys. Turn the page." At some point, there has to be a discussion that women and girls deserve their bodily integrity and privacy, and that they were not put on this earth to be "explored" by boys. We're human beings, not mannequins.

I don't know exactly why Josh did what he did, but I do know enough about their beliefs that Boobchelle created an environment where boys learned early and quickly that they hold special entitlements over women and girls. I imagine that this can only increase the chances of a boy acting out sexually. IMO their ideology is as irresponsible and culpable as they are for ignoring him when he asked for help. I don't believe Josh did anything to his sisters deliberately as a cry for help, but I do think he cried for help because he found himself acting out compulsively.

I still think that the connection between cop with the child porn charge and Boob being friends should be further investigated. It's a stretch of the imagination to believe Josh's preference for younger and younger girls just appears out of nowhere. Nobody wakes up one day wanting to be a pedophile, right? I read one case where there was a man who developed a growth in his frontal lobe and started having all kinds of horrifying and criminal thoughts about children. He went to the doctor and growth removed... no more bad thoughts. So yes, there is a chance that there's a physiological reason for predatory behavior but for the most part, it's psychologically acquired. I'm no expert, I just think family influences are worth looking into.

[DaysAgo]

I hope the Duggars are sued by the people they tried so very hard to blame for their latest woes: the police officer who was accused as having a lesbian agenda and the police officer who is in prison who was accused at taking a bribe for an early parole.

[pinksparkles]

I also think they will soon realize if they sue due to the release, they wont win. Then they will blame others and the cycle continues. I believe the Duggars have had legal counsel all along. From 2003 and going to talk to church people etc. And I believw the Trooper probably told them a few things and they KNEW when they walked out of that office that NOTHING was going to happen to Josh. If they REALLY wanted the law involved, they wouldnt have gone to who they did. Funny how Boob kept mentioning a "guest" or "3rd person" who was there to witness it. Wonder if it is the leader himself or if this is a lie as well. Or a "stretching of the truth".

[moriah]

No it really is normal for a boy going through puberty to be fascinated with his pubescent sister.

I am not saying 14 is normal. I said Josh was a bit older than normal and he eventually chose clearly prepubescent children.

But it more common.than most people want to think about it.

From the beginning he was going after prepubescents. Jana was the only one who was possibly entering puberty in March of 2002 -- Jill was not yet 11, despite what she said on the air.

If she was 12 when her parents told her about the abuse, that's scary all by itself -- that they waited more than a year to tell the girls he'd been in their bedroom? How *could* they protect themselves if they didn't know? (Which shouldn't have been their responsibility anyway, because, ya know, parents and all)

[Pandie5]

From the beginning he was going after prepubescents. Jana was the only one who was possibly entering puberty in March of 2002 -- Jill was not yet 11, despite what she said on the air.

If she was 12 when her parents told her about the abuse, that's scary all by itself -- that they waited more than a year to tell the girls he'd been in their bedroom? How *could* they protect themselves if they didn't know? (Which shouldn't have been their responsibility anyway, because, ya know, parents and all)

I have all girls. Signs of puberty can start as early as 10, or 9. But not FIVE!

[moriah]

I have all girls. Signs of puberty can start as early as 10, or 9. But not FIVE!

Yeah, a friend of mine started her period when she was 10. But she still looked very much like a child. Even in the "14 Kids" documentary, Jessa and Jill both look so young. Jana was getting to that awkward adolescent stage, but not Jill.

Still, if it was ordinary sexual exploration, it makes no sense that Jana was not targeted while the younger girls were. The only way it makes sense for him not to target Jana is a consciousness of guilt -- he recognized what he was doing was wrong, and believed Jana would tell sooner than the other girls. She had more authority being the oldest girl, and had a twin brother who she may have been close to who would have looked out for her. She probably would have been the one most likely to tell someone, even if it was only her twin brother she told.

Watching that documentary does remind me more that Josh was also young, too. He needed help, and better tools to help him maintain self-control than "Nike!"

Sadly, I know someone who (as an adult) deals with an attraction to minors. He sublimates it into cartoon porn, and is committed to being child-free -- looks to only date women who are child-free by choice with few near relatives who might pop out spawn, and got a vasectomy very young. You can see a bit of his preferences in the women he chooses (he was interested in me, primarily because I'm very tiny). He did bring up the topic within 3 dates, before sex, by telling me about his porn preferences, which made me ask more questions. I'm still his friend, but I want kids someday and have far too many friends with kids, even if I have no true nieces or nephews. I was glad he was honest, but I just couldn't go there. (Which makes me not understand Anna at *all*.)

I really don't know how healthy it is to reinforce those thoughts with cartoon porn and what guys do when they watch porn by themselves, but I do believe him when he's said he's never harmed a child, and I think people who at least acknowledge their issue are probably less of a threat to society than those who bottle it up. If Josh really did confess all three times, it suggests either impulsiveness, or compulsiveness. Neither issue is helped by denial.

[halcionne]

IMO all of the acts were predatory because none of the girls were in a position to give consent. Even if the older girls were awake Josh had power over them. That's not a moral judgement, though, just an acknowledgement of the power relationship.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was that simple that Fox news tried to get the records after they were sealed and just assumed that they'd been sealed from the beginning so it must be a conspiracy.

The thing the reddit article doesn't say is it's not an either/or as far a "reporting it" or going to a psychiatrist. Taking them for treatment will result in a report which will be followed up by CPS. If they find that appropriate treatment is in place they will follow it. I doubt the police would have even be involved in a case like Josh's.

That's exactly what happened.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... h-council/

An Arkansas State Police public information officer referred FOX411 to Arkansas code §12-18-104 which states “any data, records, reports, or documents that are created, collected, or compiled by or on behalf of the Department of Human Services, the Department of Arkansas State Police, or other entity authorized under this chapter to perform investigations or provide services to children, individuals, or families shall not be subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act of 1967, 25-19-101 et seq.â€

[2xx1xy1JD]

No it really is normal for a boy going through puberty to be fascinated with his pubescent sister.

I am not saying 14 is normal. I said Josh was a bit older than normal and he eventually chose clearly prepubescent children.

But it more common.than most people want to think about it.

Younger children explore all the time, and if both are fine with it it's not considered abusive at all.

By 14, though, a developmentally normal child knows what is appropriate, and what's not. There could be curiosity, but there is also the decision to ACT on that curiosity.

With their hyper-focus on "purity", it's not like the Duggars just forgot to have a sex talk with the kids. They were constantly focusing on rules designed to keep sexuality under control. It's quite likely, though, that Josh was told that having ANY sexual thoughts was sinful, so that he knew that touching his sisters was bad but he didn't necessarily see it as being worse than looking at a picture or whacking off.

It's troubling that he targeted girls who were younger, girls who were in a vulnerable position where they were unable to consent (ie. sleeping) and that he progressed to grabbing. This shows no regard for the girls themselves, and it's not clear that he realized that the violation aspect was a problem as opposed to the sexual thoughts aspect.

It's still not possible with the limited information that we have to make a definite statement that he's a pedophile, because we don't know that he prefers children over adults, when an adult is available.

[Four is Enough]

From what our counselors told us when our son offended, what makes an offender at risk, and what makes Josh's case so very serious, are the following factors:

He was of considerable age older than his victims, or at least some of them.

He held a position of power or authority over them.

He had multiple occasions of inappropriate behavior with each.

There was more than one victim. Multiple victims implies a bigger problem, whether within the family or outside the family.

Checking genitalia with the sister closest in age: fairly normal

Doing it ONCE: normal

Doing it with ONE PERSON: normal.

multiple ages, multiple attempts, multiple victims: NOT normal. Red flags. Treatment needed.

[JenniferJuniper]

From what our counselors told us when our son offended, what makes an offender at risk, and what makes Josh's case so very serious, are the following factors:

He was of considerable age older than his victims, or at least some of them.

He held a position of power or authority over them.

He had multiple occasions of inappropriate behavior with each.

There was more than one victim. Multiple victims implies a bigger problem, whether within the family or outside the family.

Checking genitalia with the sister closest in age: fairly normal

Doing it ONCE: normal

Doing it with ONE PERSON: normal.

multiple ages, multiple attempts, multiple victims: NOT normal. Red flags. Treatment needed.

A 15 year old molesting a 5 year after he'd admitted doing it a year before with multiple other girls is a predator. The laundry room story is also very scary, but we know he was 15 when he assaulted the littlest girl.

We can't know whether Josh is sexually attracted to little girls still. There's a good chance he isn't. But there is also a possibility that he developed a fetish that he is dealing with still, if not actually acting upon his thoughts. The lack of real treatment at the time is very concerning.

There is porn story as well, isn't there? Hopefully he didn't get any material from Jim Bob's state trooper pal.

[happy atheist]

Moving on: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26277