The Duggars' Megyn Kelly Lie-a-Thon Shit Show- Part 2

[MichellesCrunchyHair]

According to the Pastor who had an audio of his show re the Duggars linked to FJ, The FRC was informed, by this pastor himself, re Josh's history.

If this pastor is to be believed, the FRC knew and hired him anyway.

The old, roll of the dice, just like JB, that no one would find out.

The FRC KNEW??

Then again, if Josh said he was saved, then that was probably enough to get a pass anyway. :cry:

[bluehydrangea]

Sigh.

My heart hurts for these two as victims (not just of sexual assault by their own brother, but as members of this clearly unhealthy lifestyle), but I could do without their shrills commands for the public to get on board with their bullshit. They, as victims, have the right to feel however they want to feel about this, but they can't be mad at people in general for forming their own opinions about the entirety of the situation. They cannot convince people that it's no big deal, and normal two thirds of the time! for a brother to touch his sisters. They cannot demand that people get on board with that.

At this point it just feels like pathetic money-grubbing. I feel sorry that these kids were ever put in this position in the first place.

[Pandie5]

Sigh.

My heart hurts for these two as victims (not just of sexual assault by their own brother, but as members of this clearly unhealthy lifestyle), but I could do without their shrills commands for the public to get on board with their bullshit. They, as victims, have the right to feel however they want to feel about this, but they can't be mad at people in general for forming their own opinions about the entirety of the situation. They cannot convince people that it's no big deal, and normal two thirds of the time! for a brother to touch his sisters. They cannot demand that people get on board with that.

At this point it just feels like pathetic money-grubbing. I feel sorry that these kids were ever put in this position in the first place.

Unfortunately the general public doesn't know much about Gothard. Mainstream conservatives think that the victims forgave cuz it wasn't "that bad" and they truly had a choice and Christ is in their hearts. All that may be true. I can't judge. But knowing what Gothard teaches and knowing JB has complete control over their spiritual leadership, I have cause to doubt what choice they had. They know they will never see family again if they are contrary to orders. I wish Megyn had asked that question. Not if it was your choice, but ,"What would happen if you didn't forgive or do as JB says?" Then they are either liars or going against Gothard teaching. From what I've seen of this mentality, tjey don't undersrand catch 22's. It is Fox News' mentality too.

[NjoyingNsanity]

What really bothers me is that there have to be "safeguards" at all!!! It is NOT normal for a boy, any boy to have a sexual interest in his sister! It should be possible for sisters and brothers to say go camping and sleep in the same tent with out incident. Josh is SICK. He needs to be evaluated and treated and not allowed around any child even his own. The only "safeguard" should be his ass in a treatment program.

I couldn't agree more poor little Izzy is even going to be punished for what his uncle did long before he was even born. How fucked up is it that these young women think protecting little girls from being molested by their brother is normal? I don't for one second think it was just some inappropriate touching, and neither do I believe Josh told on himself I call bullshit on both parts of their story. I also don't buy it that Jana was somehow mysteriously left out of the abuse or that any of the little girls born afterwards were safe. If he molested his sister is there any chance that when deprived of opportunities to molest them he might have molested any of his younger brothers?

Something isn't right with Josh I have five kids the oldest is a boy the younger four are all girls there have been times when they've had to share beds while traveling or when we've had houseguests. Nothing like this ever happened, and my son was genuinely disgusted when he heard about it in the news so was one of his friends who also has younger sisters. Normal boys who are allowed some sort of normal harmless ways of dealing with puberty don't see children especially their own younger siblings as sexual objects. Their whole bit about boys not being able to control themselves is bullshit. I'll give you an example my twelve year old daughter has a huge crush on my son's sixteen year old friend she flirts with him every chance she gets. Poor boy acts oblivious when she's around, but admits to everyone else that he's faking being oblivious because she's just a little girl and even though he doesn't like her that way he doesn't want to hurt her feelings or embarrass her either. If a sixteen year old with atheist parents can be taught that level of respect for a young girl why then couldn't Josh be taught we don't ever touch children or family members that way? Seems to me the only difference is my son's friend's parents taught him to respect women and young girls and to always secure consent from someone old enough, and sober enough to give consent. While Josh was taught women and even little girls are sex objects, and that men shouldn't be expected to exercise any self control because they are visual beings.

[MisUndrstd]

One small degree, tiny of glimmer of hope here that it is true that the children at some point got at least a small degree of counseling was when Jill talked about forgiveness. Jill said something to the effect of: (not an exact quote) "You can forgive but that does not mean you have to trust. You have to set up boundaries and work on regaining trust". That does sound like something that would have come from a professional counselor. I know for a fact that a counselor will talk to victims of such crimes about setting up their own personal boundaries and how trust must be regained, it just doesn't happen on its own. Trust must be earned. That was the only thing in the whole interview that really gave me any reassurance that in fact the girls had help with processing this situation. I think at this point if the Duggars did get some counseling for the children even if it was forced through CPS, they should show evidence of that. That could go a long way in calming this down, especially if there is proof that Josh himself worked with a professional counselor to overcome his issues.

[Pandie5]

I couldn't agree more poor little Izzy is even going to be punished for what his uncle did long before he was even born. How fucked up is it that these young women think protecting little girls from being molested by their brother is normal? I don't for one second think it was just some inappropriate touching, and neither do I believe Josh told on himself I call bullshit on both parts of their story. I also don't buy it that Jana was somehow mysteriously left out of the abuse or that any of the little girls born afterwards were safe. If he molested his sister is there any chance that when deprived of opportunities to molest them he might have molested any of his younger brothers?

Something isn't right with Josh I have five kids the oldest is a boy the younger four are all girls there have been times when they've had to share beds while traveling or when we've had houseguests. Nothing like this ever happened, and my son was genuinely disgusted when he heard about it in the news so was one of his friends who also has younger sisters. Normal boys who are allowed some sort of normal harmless ways of dealing with puberty don't see children especially their own younger siblings as sexual objects. Their whole bit about boys not being able to control themselves is bullshit. I'll give you an example my twelve year old daughter has a huge crush on my son's sixteen year old friend she flirts with him every chance she gets. Poor boy acts oblivious when she's around, but admits to everyone else that he's faking being oblivious because she's just a little girl and even though he doesn't like her that way he doesn't want to hurt her feelings or embarrass her either. If a sixteen year old with atheist parents can be taught that level of respect for a young girl why then couldn't Josh be taught we don't ever touch children or family members that way? Seems to me the only difference is my son's friend's parents taught him to respect women and young girls and to always secure consent from someone old enough, and sober enough to give consent. While Josh was taught women and even little girls are sex objects, and that men shouldn't be expected to exercise any self control because they are visual beings.

I know. It is frustrating. Not all, but some of their supporters would think again if Gothard beliefs had been outlined or educational material presented to the viewing audience. Or if a real timeline was given. Most experts are saying that yes, once with near age siblings could be curiosity in an socially isolated teen. But a year later it was a 5 year old! That is a sickness he can't control. An indoctrinated one, an genetic one or one brought on by abuse by someone else. But all sickness, not curiosity.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I tried not to focus on the details too much-- what Josh did exactly and to whom but JB, Michelle, Jessa, and Jill decided to dwell on the details so I had to. Jinger was 8 when Josh picked her up, put her on the washing machine and put his hands down her panties. Joy was 5 when he put her on his lap and put his hands inside her panties. This is what JB referred to when he said "It was just a few seconds." FUCKYOU! JB, FUCKYOU! You were supposed to be their protection, their guardian of their trusting little hearts. You are a complete fuck up. How many fathers would describe the sexual molestation of their little girls with a dismissive "few seconds"? You should have never, NEVER procreated. Ever. You are not worthy to be called a Father. Really at this point you should cut your own balls off and toss them away because you never should have been trusted with sperm to begin with.

[nastyhobbitses]

I tried not to focus on the details too much-- what Josh did exactly and to whom but JB, Michelle, Jessa, and Jill decided to dwell on the details so I had to. Jinger was 8 when Josh picked her up, put her on the washing machine and put his hands down her panties. Joy was 5 when he put her on his lap and put his hands inside her panties. This is what JB referred to when he said "It was just a few seconds." FUCKYOU! JB, FUCKYOU! You were supposed to be their protection, their guardian of their trusting little hearts. You are a complete fuck up. How many fathers would describe the sexual molestation of their little girls with a dismissive "few seconds"? You should have never, NEVER procreated. Ever. You are not worthy to be called a Father. Really at this point you should cut your own balls off and toss them away because you never should have been trusted with sperm to begin with.

Just saying, when my dad found out that my ex assaulted me, my ex was lucky that he lived several states away, because otherwise, a chainsaw castration would have been in order.

I used to have a bit of hope for JB, that even though he was patriarchal and a bit of a dope, he did genuinely love his children. But a father who dismisses and hides the molestation of his children and thinks that someone shoving his hands into the underwear of his five-year-old daughter is OK if it's "just a few seconds" is no father at all. He, IMO, is just as guilty as Josh. He let this happen. Over and over. And did nothing except try to cover it all up.

[MisUndrstd]

I tried not to focus on the details too much-- what Josh did exactly and to whom but JB, Michelle, Jessa, and Jill decided to dwell on the details so I had to. Jinger was 8 when Josh picked her up, put her on the washing machine and put his hands down her panties. Joy was 5 when he put her on his lap and put his hands inside her panties. This is what JB referred to when he said "It was just a few seconds." FUCKYOU! JB, FUCKYOU! You were supposed to be their protection, their guardian of their trusting little hearts. You are a complete fuck up. How many fathers would describe the sexual molestation of their little girls with a dismissive "few seconds"? You should have never, NEVER procreated. Ever. You are not worthy to be called a Father. Really at this point you should cut your own balls off and toss them away because you never should have been trusted with sperm to begin with.

Thankfully, menopause has gracefully swept into the Duggar home, spinning her sparkling middle-aged wand of infertility and reassuring all of us that 19 children and not one more will be the end result of this hot mess fertile wasteland that JB and Michelle call the marriage bed. So lucky for JB that his balls will not have to be sacrificed to put a stop to the baby merry-go-round of slave children.

[fuscia]

JB and his "just a few seconds" is infuriating. Josh molested the girls! I have no doubt that Josh did more to the sleeping girls that a quick feel over the clothes too. I think Jana was spared because she might have been a lighter sleeper or because she was the oldest girl and could have really clobbered him.

JB will not let his girls hold hands until engagement or sit in the car next to them, but Josh going under his baby sister's panties is fine? What a f'd up man. I'm so glad that they can't have anymore kids. He royally screwed up 19.

[SassyPants]

Interesting. So he thought it was enough of an issue or at least a potential PR nightmare to tell them. Was it told up front to prevent the record from being read by FRC? Why did Josh or JB not tell? And why does the pastor get to be the gate keeper of that information? Given out when he deems it necessary. Would he have stepped forward if Josh applied to work in a daycare? Or as a camp counselor?

No- FRC was informed of Josh's abuse before they officially hired him. Evidently many in the Christian world, and in AR knew-

[Librul]

I'm not sure why we should be concerned about NOT attacking their faith....their faith is not anything I respect, nor does it have anything to do with what Jesus taught, if you are concerned about not attacking Christianity.

[Pandie5]

K. So FRC knew. And it was an open secret in their community. Why did In Touch get this story NOW?

Election year? Josh & Anna bought a house in AK in January. Speculation was that he had a 2 year contract with FRC and it was almost up...And the County supposedly sent the Duggars a letter about the release before the release...No legal attempt to destroy records in the past. No attempt at barring their release after notification (although they may have been released before the letter was even recieved). And in my suspicious opinion, there isn't THAT much outrage and frustration in the family countenances? Who's their PR agent? I'd say Fox News. Most other celebs hit with something like this hunker down, make written statements, deal with PR people to rebuild an image without answering to anything. This all seems too orchestrated to start a holy war during an election year. Or take attention away from other issues or get ratings. Give FRC some edge in a new issue they will be starting...It would be interesting to learn why In Touch went down this rabbit hole now.

[apple1]

Never mind.

[Toothfairy]

What's really scary however is the possible damage their message could do to other young viewers AND predators "It was only thorough the clothes - so don't feel bad, no big deal. You didn't even remember it so no biggie, just get over it" "Forgive and forget, move on," "not as bad as actual rape" "it happens in lots of families" 

I cannot think of more disturbing and dangerous messages to allow to be normalised. They must create their own narrative and survival but this interview more than anything else has driven home the point that they cannot be on television sharing this message - it's frighteningly dangerous language that allows abusers to minimize their abuse again and again and again. It's alarming that these people have admirers, including young victims or potential victims, who might buy into these messages. It's also alarming that they are, essentially, offering support to abusers and potential abusers by telling them that their urges fall under the category of normal curiosity about sex, that "mild" sexual abuse really isn't that bad, and that sexual abuse is not necessarily damaging to victims in the long or short term.

On top of all that, they are explicitly discouraging parents and victims from reporting sexual abuse to authorities since, according to their narrative, DHS violated their children's trust and made this information public. They openly speculated that other parents of victims might think twice before reporting and seeking help lest the same fate befall their families. They also said that treatment facilities for young sex offenders don't work while stating that their chosen course of action-- not reporting or seeking support for the victims when their son confessed molesting his sisters multiple times, then getting Josh some short-term, non-specialized "counseling" and a stern talking to-- completely cured Josh and he never re-offended. People who believe their story and take them seriously might think that that is and appropriate and even "proven" way to deal with similar issues in their own families, which is really frightening. This goes way beyond their personal choices about how to handle family problems, forgiveness, what story they want to present to the media, etc. I really hope thumpers with any common sense don't listen to this cult sheltered family

[SassyPants]

Never mind.

You'll have to do the search yourself. It was a link to an audio cast from a pastor speaking with Michael Reagan, the conservative talk show host.

It was posted to Fr Jinger the week after (mid week) the story broke. It is a 60 min audio post and quite interesting.

Maybe someone will come in and remember exactly where it was posted and post the link.

Just too many posts and threads to wade through.

Anyone remember where that audio was posted?

[notreality]

What's really scary however is the possible damage their message could do to other young viewers AND predators "It was only thorough the clothes - so don't feel bad, no big deal. You didn't even remember it so no biggie, just get over it" "Forgive and forget, move on," "not as bad as actual rape" "it happens in lots of families" 

I cannot think of more disturbing and dangerous messages to allow to be normalised. They must create their own narrative and survival but this interview more than anything else has driven home the point that they cannot be on television sharing this message - it's frighteningly dangerous language that allows abusers to minimize their abuse again and again and again. It's alarming that these people have admirers, including young victims or potential victims, who might buy into these messages. It's also alarming that they are, essentially, offering support to abusers and potential abusers by telling them that their urges fall under the category of normal curiosity about sex, that "mild" sexual abuse really isn't that bad, and that sexual abuse is not necessarily damaging to victims in the long or short term.

On top of all that, they are explicitly discouraging parents and victims from reporting sexual abuse to authorities since, according to their narrative, DHS violated their children's trust and made this information public. They openly speculated that other parents of victims might think twice before reporting and seeking help lest the same fate befall their families. They also said that treatment facilities for young sex offenders don't work while stating that their chosen course of action-- not reporting or seeking support for the victims when their son confessed molesting his sisters multiple times, then getting Josh some short-term, non-specialized "counseling" and a stern talking to-- completely cured Josh and he never re-offended. People who believe their story and take them seriously might think that that is and appropriate and even "proven" way to deal with similar issues in their own families, which is really frightening. This goes way beyond their personal choices about how to handle family problems, forgiveness, what story they want to present to the media, etc. I really hope thumpers with any common sense don't listen to this cult sheltered family

Unfortunately I have been reading another board (not normally populated by leghumpers) and there have been several posts saying they can't judge because they would handle it the same way. They are more concerned about anyone finding out or their sons going to jail. After the Jessa and Jill interview aired there seems to be more posts saying that nobody should criticize the girls because they have every right to feel whatever they are feeling, etc. So they have been reinforced in their belief that this is a private thing that should remain private. They are even saying that Jessa and Jill did the interview in order to 'set the record straight' and respond to all the lies. A new talking point is that the media and the LBGT community are making this a bigger issue than it needed to be. They are saying there were lies about Josh being a rapist. I never saw Josh called a rapist in any media outlet but apparently a memo has gone out that the girls have to defend Josh because he's being called a rapist by angry LBGT people. :violin:

ETA: These posts I'm referring to are all made by women.

[Helena]

You'll have to do the search yourself. It was a link to an audio cast from a pastor speaking with Michael Reagan, the conservative talk show host.

It was posted to Fr Jinger the week after (mid week) the story broke. It is a 60 min audio post and quite interesting.

Maybe someone will come in and remember exactly where it was posted and post the link.

Just too many posts and threads to wade through.

Anyone remember where that audio was posted?

I think someone else posted another link, but here's this one.

cagle.com/2015/05/conservative-christians-miscount/

[twinmama]

I'm not sure why we should be concerned about NOT attacking their faith....their faith is not anything I respect, nor does it have anything to do with what Jesus taught, if you are concerned about not attacking Christianity.

In addition, I think if your "faith" excuses actions like this, your "faith" is wrong and deserves criticism. The Catholic church covering for abusive priests is a huge part of what drove my very religious parents away from the church completely, and mostly away from religion too. Being faithful and religious DOES NOT mean you have to forgive every action by someone who is part of that group.

[twinmama]

JB and his "just a few seconds" is infuriating. Josh molested the girls! I have no doubt that Josh did more to the sleeping girls that a quick feel over the clothes too. I think Jana was spared because she might have been a lighter sleeper or because she was the oldest girl and could have really clobbered him.

JB will not let his girls hold hands until engagement or sit in the car next to them, but Josh going under his baby sister's panties is fine? What a f'd up man. I'm so glad that they can't have anymore kids. He royally screwed up 19.

Jana being spared could also be because she's JD's twin. My twins are boy/boy and only 3 years old, but they are CRAZY protective of each other. Like, one gets hurt and the other burst into tears too. One gets in trouble and the other goes to sit in time out with him. Perhaps Josh knew JD would step up for Jana (I hope they have a nice twin relationship like that). Or, she was close to his age so he saw her as a person and not an object.

[Pandie5]

In addition, I think if your "faith" excuses actions like this, your "faith" is wrong and deserves criticism. The Catholic church covering for abusive priests is a huge part of what drove my very religious parents away from the church completely, and mostly away from religion too. Being faithful and religious DOES NOT mean you have to forgive every action by someone who is part of that group.

Removing it removes the idea of martyrdom they always use. But they'd use it anyway.

[barefootandsinning]

I thought I'd be even angrier after watching the girls' interview, but honestly, I'm just sad. I've always held out some degree of hope that maybe SOMEONE would realize what a warped system of beliefs they were raised with...but they're just in too deep. All of my thoughts on the "objectifying women" statement Jessa made have been eloquently posted earlier on in this thread, but MAN did that get me. They're just so blind to the rampant sexism of their family's lifestyle. I knew they were brainwashed, but nothing more than this goes to show it.

I know that the girls' anger at the media for releasing this whole ordeal is completely justified. But part of me thinks that deep down, in seeing what the "rest of the world" has to say about it, they're seeing this past event in their lives in a new light. Maybe, for the first time, they're realizing that it's a bit more fucked up than they were ever taught to think. And sometimes that can be WAY harder to deal with emotionally than dealing with the trauma the first time around. I don't know, just a thought.

[flyingxchanges]

Jana being spared could also be because she's JD's twin. My twins are boy/boy and only 3 years old, but they are CRAZY protective of each other. Like, one gets hurt and the other burst into tears too. One gets in trouble and the other goes to sit in time out with him. Perhaps Josh knew JD would step up for Jana (I hope they have a nice twin relationship like that). Or, she was close to his age so he saw her as a person and not an object.

Or it could be that he's a pedophile and she was in puberty. Oh wait pedophiles are 16 according to JB :pull-hair:

[gustava]

Jana being spared could also be because she's JD's twin. My twins are boy/boy and only 3 years old, but they are CRAZY protective of each other. Like, one gets hurt and the other burst into tears too. One gets in trouble and the other goes to sit in time out with him. Perhaps Josh knew JD would step up for Jana (I hope they have a nice twin relationship like that). Or, she was close to his age so he saw her as a person and not an object.

Interesting perspective.

[skulduggery]

I tried not to focus on the details too much-- what Josh did exactly and to whom but JB, Michelle, Jessa, and Jill decided to dwell on the details so I had to. Jinger was 8 when Josh picked her up, put her on the washing machine and put his hands down her panties. Joy was 5 when he put her on his lap and put his hands inside her panties. This is what JB referred to when he said "It was just a few seconds." FUCKYOU! JB, FUCKYOU! You were supposed to be their protection, their guardian of their trusting little hearts. You are a complete fuck up. How many fathers would describe the sexual molestation of their little girls with a dismissive "few seconds"? You should have never, NEVER procreated. Ever. You are not worthy to be called a Father. Really at this point you should cut your own balls off and toss them away because you never should have been trusted with sperm to begin with.

Exactly. Most dads don't care if someone touches their little girl for only "a few seconds," if some dude touches their kids even for a moment they will feel compelled to snap their hand off.

But not Boob, and according to the leghumpers, he's a stand up father. :roll: