A Saturday With the Moodys (Maxwells)

[SPHASH]

Was that really necessary? I can't stand the Maxwells and their sick and twisted theology, but their dead baby should be OFF LIMITS. There is no reason for any of us to gawk at a picture of her grave.

Well excuse me! We are always talking about how Steve tries to scrub things like Joe's previous engagement off the internet. This is something he can't remove. BTW Susannah's grave was discussed in this thread earlier.

[Arete]

So you put up a picture of their much loved and mourned baby's grave to what, teach Steve a lesson? Remind Joseph he has a broken engagement under his belt? You think this is some kind of "win" for truth, putting up a picture of the grave? Susannah's life and death were well documented on their blog. This is about using that tragedy to go neener-niener at Steve. Not cool.

[16strong]

Normally I run from the really controversial matters here (I'm not one for conflict), but I have to put my foot in this ring. That is seriously inappropriate, and you might as well be dancing on that poor little baby girl's grave. And for what, to spite her family? I like the Maxwells about as much as the next person (not at all), but they are still human, and they have still lost a child (that they continue to grieve for). Very NOT COOL. There are other, way more appropriate ways to stick it to the Maxwells. This is disgusting.

SPHASH, I like you, many of your posts make me seriously LOL, and your blog is extra LOL, but I hope you never post something like this again.

[thoughtful]

One of the next questions addressed Proverbs 13:24 and whether the Maxwells believed in it. Jesse made the fundies laugh by saying it certainly helped him. The rest of the family was quick to point out that a variety of disciplinary techniques were used when the chidults were children, but boy, beating your children is fucking hilarious!

So, you're saying it was clear that they hit their kids? Because I don't think we've ever been sure.

And, finding out that Elissa's name is pronounced with a long "e" makes me smile -- it matches up perfectly with

trust eeend obey! Trust eeend obey, Eeelissa!

titus2.com/media/products/samples/audio/trustandobey.mp3

[MamaJunebug]

You all know I'm not one for the Maxwells nor for fighting other FJites, but vis-a-vis the photo of little Susannah's grave, I say, why not? I personally don't perceive that SPHASH posted it in any way to annoy the Maxwells. It's a fact of life, a very sad one, there is a marked grave for the little one. I took no joy in seeing the little headstone, but it did add a bit to the mental image I had of what it looked like when Teri threatened her two- or three-year-old granddaughter that she wouldn't be able to place something on the stone unless and until the child made an apology to her auntie for her misdeed.

That's the story that has me upset. The little girl either wanted to get her aunt's attention, or annoy her aunt, or thought she was doing something funny and chucked some dirt at her. Big discipline event ensued. Look at the venue where this all took place. The little child is standing there in a totally nondescript flat field with a bunch of flat concrete things and it's probably making no sense to her at all where this place is, or what it signifies. And now she's tried to do something childish with her auntie, and her grandmother is giving her all kinds of heck and "depriving" her of – – what, exactly? Of laying some flowers on one of the flat things? How confusing it had to be for the kiddo.

Again, I'm not interested in furthering any kind of argument on the linking to the photo. Maybe it's my age, or the fact that I'm just a generation or two away from the poverty and short lives of Eastern European peasantry. The photo of the graveside does not bother me in the least, the fact of how the Maxwells treated that little girl during the day of remembrance – – that bothers me greatly.

[Arete]

SPHASH's justification was that Steve scrubs the blog, not as an aid to help us visualize what a mean, petty woman Teri is. Susannah is another woman's dead baby, a woman who still mourns her, and I'm sure would feel positively violated to know her child's grave was being used to either score points against her father-in-law or to illustrate the scene her living child participated in.

This isn't some choice between whether Teri was wrong or the picture of the grave is wrong. As far as I am concerned, BOTH situations are wrong.

[MamaJunebug]

Observation-Elissa is always hanging onto Joe's arm like she is afraid he is gonna make a run for it, kinda like Chris always has his arm around NR Anna.

Maybe she's been told that a former fiancée lurks in the shadows, just waiting to pounce!!!

Weirdest ChrisNRAnna photo ever - her brother's wedding/family portrait, where Chris has her physically separated from all the others. Not unlike the classic family photo of The Steve Maxwell Family, with Teri's parents in the frame, but separated so that they could be cropped out without a trace.

As to the reasoning that Steve can't scrub the cemetery photo, I had missed that, Arête...thank you for pointing it out. There is something in that set-up that bothers me greatly, so Teri's self-congratulatory (my reading of her attitude) description of it to her audience seems like far the worse transgression to me. FWIW. The photo is just a photo. The small writerly part of me wants to try to draft an essay describing the location and my reaction to the story of the little girl being punished. But I dont know what purpose that would serve, save to anger me even more. Looks like I need yet another clean break from the Maxwells. And this time, it should be permanent, I think. Steve & Teri's brand of family upsets me far more than I care to admit, for whatever reason. Carry on the good fight without me. I *must* go cold turkey, and ODAAT, w/r/t Maxhell. All other snark is ON!

[zandria]

Regarding Abby's tasks at six, there was a recent blog post about her duties as "Chickie Mama", SOLE caretaker of a coop of chickens. As I remember, the workload, while intermittent, lasted all day. It struck me as a lot of work and responsibility for 6, so I'm doubly surprised/appalled at learning it's just the tip of the iceberg of the work she's doing at home. They're grinding her down early. Poor kid.

[alba]

I wonder if they mean Sarah types up the MomsCorner posts that Terie writes?

That's what I was thinking, or else that Sarah, as the "family writer", does a sort of copy writing thing based on ideas Teri comes up with.

[anjulibai]

SPHASH's justification was that Steve scrubs the blog, not as an aid to help us visualize what a mean, petty woman Teri is. Susannah is another woman's dead baby, a woman who still mourns her, and I'm sure would feel positively violated to know her child's grave was being used to either score points against her father-in-law or to illustrate the scene her living child participated in.

This isn't some choice between whether Teri was wrong or the picture of the grave is wrong. As far as I am concerned, BOTH situations are wrong.

I will also add, it's not like they have ever tried to hide Susannah's existence. She has not been scrubbed from the blog, and they bring her up every year around the time of her birth and death.

[Odd1Out]

Why was Terie deciding whether or not Bethany got to place a flag on her sister's grave? I'm assuming Nathan and Melanie were there. Why couldn't they say she could place the flag on there and apologize later. I get that they may have been distracted at the time and Terie was the one who saw the dirt throwing happen. But Terie is not the parent, it wasn't up to her.

[blessalessi]

That's what I was thinking, or else that Sarah, as the "family writer", does a sort of copy writing thing based on ideas Teri comes up with.

Isn't Sarah the one that ran the home as a child while Teri was in bed with depression? Then maybe it is not hard to imagine that as an adult she writes Teri's corners for her.

Sarah has been an adult since she was a young girl, even though, as an adult she is still treated as a young girl.

[blessalessi]

We had a great view of everyone in the sanctuary. ...

I did overhear a few conversations. Most of them were moms discussing which products to purchase or asking questions about how to access ScheduleBreeze with their MOTH codes. I saw older children pacing with babies in the back of the sanctuary, as their mothers (there were several of these very large QF-type families with very small children) were holding still smaller babies on their laps.

Did you catch a glimpse of anyone else reacting with dismay or anger at the things Teri said about Bethany at the grave, or Abigail cooking dinner? I understand why undercover FJers stick to note-taking for the purpose of the "mission" but I am surprised that nobody at all questions the Maxwells on any of their points. Or maybe there is no time for questions?

[Odd1Out]

I am so, so glad the Maxwell circus show was not around when I was homeschooled in the mid 80s. I'm afraid my parents could have been somewhat swayed by them. Not completely, but enough to make it more restrictive than it was.

[usmcmom]

These fundies are obsessed with turning everything into a battle against sin with their kids. Most reasonable people would have quietly told Bethany that behavior wasn't appropriate, especially in that setting, and moved on. The "adults" in this situation escalated the whole thing and apparently caused a scene in a place where reverence and quiet is expected.

I agree with the others who have said let Bethany place the flag on the grave, then have her apologize as soon as they get in the car.

These people must win at all costs against their children. They don't care about time or place - they just care about the battle.

[AllisonWndrland]

So, you're saying it was clear that they hit their kids? Because I don't think we've ever been sure.

And, finding out that Elissa's name is pronounced with a long "e" makes me smile -- it matches up perfectly with

trust eeend obey! Trust eeend obey, Eeelissa!

titus2.com/media/products/samples/audio/trustandobey.mp3

Yes, it was clear. Steve and Teri didn't deny it and joined in the general laughter, but they were very quick to point out the other techniques they used. Teri was very fond of time-outs in increasing increments of time.

[Dru]

Regarding Abby's tasks at six, there was a recent blog post about her duties as "Chickie Mama", SOLE caretaker of a coop of chickens. As I remember, the workload, while intermittent, lasted all day. It struck me as a lot of work and responsibility for 6, so I'm doubly surprised/appalled at learning it's just the tip of the iceberg of the work she's doing at home. They're grinding her down early. Poor kid.

The chicken thing actually doesn't bother me at all. My daughter had a classmate (7yo) that had chickens and she adored taking care of them herself. This was a girl that spent 6 hours a day in Montessori, so it's not like she was home all day like Abby is. Looking back at the blog post in question I see genuine smiles on Abby's face and would bet this is something she enjoys doing.

[AllisonWndrland]

Why was Terie deciding whether or not Bethany got to place a flag on her sister's grave? I'm assuming Nathan and Melanie were there. Why couldn't they say she could place the flag on there and apologize later. I get that they may have been distracted at the time and Terie was the one who saw the dirt throwing happen. But Terie is not the parent, it wasn't up to her.

Talitha may remember better, but it seemed as if it was just Teri, Bethany, and Anna. They were visiting multiple graves on July 4th, including Teri's father's grave.

[Dru]

Talitha may remember better, but it seemed as if it was just Teri, Bethany, and Anna. They were visiting multiple graves on July 4th, including Teri's father's grave.

So they are acknowledging his death at conferences, just not on the blog?

[AllisonWndrland]

Did you catch a glimpse of anyone else reacting with dismay or anger at the things Teri said about Bethany at the grave, or Abigail cooking dinner? I understand why undercover FJers stick to note-taking for the purpose of the "mission" but I am surprised that nobody at all questions the Maxwells on any of their points. Or maybe there is no time for questions?

If anyone disagreed, I couldn't tell. Lots of nodding and smiling during Teri's session. You could definitely approach Teri and the other Maxwell women during breaks, but the sessions (with the exception of the family panel) aren't designed to allow for questions.

[anjulibai]

So they are acknowledging his death at conferences, just not on the blog?

Weird.

[anjulibai]

Sarah did wrote up their version of the conference on the blog. I found this quote interesting:

So many people are hungry for like-hearted fellowship, and we love to be apart of helping them meet each other.

Perhaps they wouldn't be so hungry for fellowship if they had friends. Isn't that the point of friendship? To be in fellowship?

Something to think about, Steve....

[AllisonWndrland]

So they are acknowledging his death at conferences, just not on the blog?

Yes, exactly. Maybe they don't acknowledge it on the blog out of respect for Teri. She seemed slightly emotional when she spoke of visiting the graves. And wait, there was another child there. I had to sit and think back to that section of Teri's session. She said Bethany threw dirt at Aunt Anna and her sister, so either Abby or Christina. I am kicking myself for not taking notes, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

[thoughtful]

Yes, it was clear. Steve and Teri didn't deny it and joined in the general laughter, but they were very quick to point out the other techniques they used. Teri was very fond of time-outs in increasing increments of time.

Thanks -- now we know for sure.

Of course, Steve and Teri are incredibly awful parents, and would be even without corporal punishment. They are the guilt-mongering, fear-inducing champs of the world. :(

[alba]

Isn't Sarah the one that ran the home as a child while Teri was in bed with depression? Then maybe it is not hard to imagine that as an adult she writes Teri's corners for her.

Sarah has been an adult since she was a young girl, even though, as an adult she is still treated as a young girl.

I didn't know that. How sad :(