A Saturday With the Moodys (Maxwells)

[sparkles]

I don't think that they EVER have been to a movie. Not sure about the mall or about the cars.

I doubt any movie or video, even "Christian" movies, would meet their strict standards. If I'm not mistaken, when they went to the Creation museum, they watched some movie or other but even then they covered their eyes during at least one section. Yup, here it is.

For those families who are as conservative as we are, I have a few additional comments. The Planetarium was fantastic. We did not go to the Men in White or the Dragon video. We did go to the Second Adam video at the end. In this video, Jesus is clearly presented as the Perfect Sacrifice, but it was too graphic for us, and so we just closed our eyes for a little while.

And who could forget Stevie's meltdown when an Everest video dared acknowledge another religion. No, I think if movies are ever allowed in the Maxwell collective, they'll have to make it themselves, a la the Arndt's neverending "Vine Valley."

[AllisonWndrland]

Afternoon Sessions- These sort of melded together in a Scripture-filled blur of Steve’s ramblings, product placement, and begging for assistance in the love-offering boxes. The main messages I took from the Spiritually Energized Family are brief: 1) don’t attend a regular church because the kids are “fellowshipping†inappropriately after services and in youth groups; 2) don’t watch TV or engage in any form of entertainment because then you’re not focusing on God; 3) the Maxwells used to watch movies together and that was wrong; 4) if you allow your children to reach the witchcraft in Harry Potter, you’re definitely NOT like-minded with Steve, you dumbass heathen; 5) Steve is a hypocrite of epic proportions when it comes to television(DUGGARS, anyone?) and begging for money in regular churches.

My response after that session was to fill in the little notecard they hand out (Steve handed my husband our notecard) for you to ask questions of the “children†during the family panel. I asked three questions of Steve: 1) why do you associate with the Duggars?; 2) when was the last time you actually observed a youth group?; and 3) why do you preach your isolationist message of homechurching in established churches? I placed my questions in the love-offering box. I couldn’t just hand it to a Maxwell, as my husband saw Jesse sitting in the back of the sanctuary reading what appeared to be the notecards.

Courting, Dating, WHATEVER Session- Steve used this opportunity to bitch and moan about defrauding people with your intent when it comes to dating, courting, betrothal, or engagement. He spoke about a father putting forth his daughter as a model example of a Christ-centered bride, ready for engagement (all of this sounds so absolutely disgusting and typing it is even worse). However, that girl was anything but what her father put her out to be.

If you touch a woman during dating, then you’re touching another man’s wife if you don’t marry that woman. Be pure and honest with your intentions and women, you are definitely NOT fit to make decisions about marriage. So mothers, don’t even think about trying to make that decision when it comes to courtship requests. Women are ruled by hormones (my husband is using this as a joke in our house now) and fall in love at the speed of a finger snap, as demonstrated by Steve during his presentation.

Yeah, this session nearly broke me. I wanted to stand up and ask Steve to stop talking about Elizabeth. Steve was clearly angry during this session. I’m betting two failed courtships and three unmarried daughters are weighing heavily on his shoulders right now. Maybe Talitha has better insight into this session. I was about to flip out verbally during the entire tradgesty. Mr. Allison was incredibly offended during this session. As a father and a good human being, he finds it appalling to infantilize grown women and take away their decision-making rights.

[Justme]

So how are his 3 adult daughters suppose to marry? Is he going to find them husbands? Are the adult brothers suppose to help?

[sparkles]

Talitha and Allison and anyone else who's ever braved a Maxwell conference, you have my deepest respect and admiration. I really don't know who you didn't keep from losing your shit. Or at least your lunch. I definitely would have needed a barf bag. I really have to wonder how many families get sucked into the Maxwell's orbit and then find that their way of life is completely off the rails. The Muncks can't be alone in that regard.

I've asked Steve about his self-serving and hypocritical endorsement of the Duggars, especially by noting on the cover of a book that the forward was written by Jim Bob. And not JUST Jim Bob, but Jim Bob of 19 Kids and Counting. A TV show, when he rails against TV as being of the devil and the downfall of the family and civilization. He tap danced around that one by saying he wasn't endorsing the show, nope, not at all, despite mentioning the show specifically. When I pressed him on it, he didn't answer. As long as it serves his purpose, it's okay.

[AllisonWndrland]

And finally, the family panel discussion arrives! This was by far the most entertaining session. Apologies in advance for the length of this post.

The audience submitted questions to the family. First question was in regard to the evil Google Plus and other social networks and how to opt-out. Jesse couldn’t answer the how-to portion, but he definitely, absolutely knew you could opt-out. Anna is wary of the dangers posed by Facebook (I wanted her to answer what those dangers actually include, but alas, no satisfaction there).

One of the next questions addressed Proverbs 13:24 and whether the Maxwells believed in it. Jesse made the fundies laugh by saying it certainly helped him. The rest of the family was quick to point out that a variety of disciplinary techniques were used when the chidults were children, but boy, beating your children is fucking hilarious!

Another attendee asked about the family’s physical activity. Anna leads the girls and they change it up every day but Sunday because duh. There’s no working out on Sunday. The boys don’t like to work out with the girls, per Sarah, because the girls use their workout as sister time and like to talk. Oh, and they walk. A lot. All the time.

Each family member had to speak to their jobs in the family businesses. Sarah works in the Titus 2 ministry, WRITES THE MOM’s CORNERS, fills orders, does payroll (WHAT? HOW? WHAT!?!?!?!?!?), and writes the Moody books. Jesse does random crap. Teri sometimes works on Mom’s Corners, now knows how to fill orders because three of the kids were so ill one week that Teri had to fill orders, and is learning how to do payroll from Sarah. John also does stuff, but I don’t remember what. Mr. Allison and I were marveling over how difficult Teri makes filling orders sound when he spoke. Mary is learning accounting with Steve, works in the Titus 2 ministry, and is also continuing to learn homemaking. Anna does set-up of the books and similar acitivities as Sarah and Mary. Joseph and Elissa (it is pronounced EEEEEE-lissa, by the way) were part of the panel as well, but we all know what Elissa does and I don’t really give a crap about Joseph’s activities. Also, just as a bonus statement, did you know you can get an Adobe license for about $25 for a student? Then you can make all sorts of things using that student license!

They also spoke about having friends outside the family. All of the chidults said their siblings are enough. Elissa piped up at that point and said her father preached that children don’t need friends outside the family. “If you’re looking for friends other than your siblings, something is very wrong.â€

Get this- Sarah listens to music! She enjoys bluegrass gospel and likes the Rochester Family in particular. Teri doesn’t have time for music. Jesse really enjoys piano music while he works.

Then the entire family stood up and sang Trust and Obey. I was really disappointed because Steve didn’t let them take out their instruments. Instead, we got this slightly weird Maxwell acapella choir version.

This session had me alternately rolling and disgusted. The fear of Google Plus and Facebook was palpable. The spare the rod question didn’t directly address the Pearls, but it was clear that some family in that room was looking for approval to beat their children. Working out in a skirt? HELL NO. My husband, who works out daily and refs football and wrestling, was horrified when I whispered the Maxwell women work out in long skirts.

The jobs discussion brought out my husband’s pissed off side. His response to Sarah? “How the hell does a 30 year old unmarried woman still living with her parents know anything about writing a Mom’s Corner?†Probably more than we know, given how she helped Teri, but I get his point. They preach one clear message of marriage and children but have Sarah write something she isn’t qualified to do under their own standard. The payroll statement shocked me. I figured Steve or one of the brothers did payroll work. I also wonder how much each of them is paid and how that works, due to the various business entities they have set up.

Steve encourages the audience to obtain student licenses for Adobe. Here’s my issue with that. None of the Maxwell chidults appears to qualify as a student to use that type of license. My lawyer side sat up and said, “Oh, Steve, you silly ass. Why would you make that assertion in public?†Not sure what I can do about it, but I’m going to look into my options.

The lack of outside friends is a constant theme. Steve beats the attendees over the head with the NO FRIENDS, NO FUN refrain. It’s just another way to control and isolate. I literally rolled my eyes at Elissa’s comment. It made me feel ill to know her own father kept her so isolated.

Color me surprised at Sarah admitting to enjoying a specific type of music and a specific group. At least she has something in this world that she enjoys. Mr. Allison laughed when Teri said she doesn’t have time for music. His answer had been she doesn’t listen to music because SATAN.

Family singing time wasn’t as painful as you might think. They were generally on-key, blended well, and sounded pretty decent overall. I think I could hear Elissa over the others, but she has a lovely voice, if that was indeed her voice.

[goldbu]

So all this talk about siblings not having friends reminded me about something I read last month over at smockity frocks. I generally don't read that blog, but pop over every once in a while. The mom has a "parenting mistakes I've made" series going and the latest one is interesting. She talks about how she used to isolate her kids because she read that brothers and sisters should be best friends and how that negatively impacted one of her daughters greatly.

smockityfrocks.com/2014/10/parenting-mistakes-ive-made-series.html

I wonder if she used to follow the Maxwells.

[VodouDoll]

Courting, Dating, WHATEVER Session- Steve used this opportunity to bitch and moan about defrauding people with your intent when it comes to dating, courting, betrothal, or engagement. He spoke about a father putting forth his daughter as a model example of a Christ-centered bride, ready for engagement (all of this sounds so absolutely disgusting and typing it is even worse). However, that girl was anything but what her father put her out to be.

So he bitched to a hundred people about this hypothetical girl, let's call her ziL kcnuM, who obviously wasn't Christ centered, and her crappy lying father for putting it out there that she was marriage-ready. Because the only reason a girl wouldn't want to marry into this family led by such an obviously stable guy like Steve is that she just doesn't love Jesus enough. Jesus Christ, he is a lunatic.

[quiversR4hunting]

After reading all about these accounts it makes me rethink the real mission of the conferences this year- find the perfect husband/wife for the adult children. Maxwells can scrutinize the families all day and see if they are strict godly enough for their children. makes me sick :ew:

[AllisonWndrland]

Our impressions overall are below. We had a lot of random impressions during the whole experience. Also, I had separate interactions with various members of the Maxwell family. I assume this is because my husband and I know how to pass for fundy, having been members of extremely conservative churches in our teens. I generally dress like the Maxwell ladies anyway. I’m pretty modest and favor longer skirts when I wear them (at least knee length and particularly in court!), but I do wear pants quite often. However, I think they took our appearance at face value and interacted with us based on that.

Mr. Allison’s overall impression: There is a lot of white fear in the Maxwell message. It’s a way to isolate your family from anyone other than white Christians who agree with you. There was only one family of color in the audience. The general message seems to be white-people centered. Also, these people are fucking crazy.

My overall impression: I was so excited to finally see the Maxwell crazy in person that I could hardly stand it. Wasn't a hardship at all. Steve, I found the show ENTERTAINING. :nenner: The Maxwell women are charming and know how to converse with strangers.I got to talk to Sarah! And yes, Mary is beautiful. I found all of the Maxwell women attractive. I don’t always think Anna photographs well, but she is really pretty in person. Elissa seems sweet, but I felt like she was overwhelmed by the conference crowd. The Maxwell sons seem incredibly arrogant. They won’t make eye contact with women outside of the family. Steve addressed my husband, but didn’t bother to include me.

Steve is a terrible public speaker and his presentation slides are useless because NO ONE BEYOND THE FOURTH PEW CAN SEE THEM. Oh, and Steve, there’s a typo in your Family Bible Time slide. What the hell is “pracitical†anyway? You’re welcome. I’ll send you a bill for the assistance.

Overall, yeah, they’re all brainwashed.

Random Thoughts:

1. Let Teri speak during the afternoon sessions. She’s engaging and more personable than Steve. The women are going to be the ones using their products for the most part and the women want to hear Teri and the daughters.

2. Steve says Sarah catches errors in their books that are not caught by the professional proofreader they employ. Yeah, no.

3. Tradgesty.

4. DVDs, movies, TV, internet videos= SATAN taking over your family. Really? Your faith and your family’s faith are so weak you can’t withstand watching a Christian movie? Are you high?

5. I know they attended Jill’s wedding and one of the Duggar graduations, as I saw Anna and Teri on camera. The hypocrisy makes me want to vomit.

6. They moved their church to an assisted living facility and tell stories about helping to isolate a woman by moving her back to her home. She had physical disabilities and I question her safety in moving back with her husband when he was unwilling to move to assisted living with her.

7. Steve says the world is full of cowards. Just look at the TSA in the airport. Um, yeah. I guess this is just more reason to him to isolate his family.

8. Steve talked about getting lots of emails harassing him for his message. He shares some of them with his family to show them how important their work is and what people say about them. I died at this. You go, FJers. You appear to bother Steve quite a lot.

9. Uriah was sold to a guy in Phoenix. They’re all really broken up about Uriah being sold. This was before Sarah’s multiple posts on the subject, so they must indeed be grieving his loss.

10. I had a delicious lunch at Taco Bueno with Mr. Allison during the lunch break. We were encouraged by Steve to eat our lunches in the fellowship hall with other people, but ignored this encouragement and instead basked in the deliciousness of Bueno and the company of people who aren’t obviously brainwashed. The counterperson at Bueno eyeballed my floor-length skirt, but meh. It was warm on a really cold day! Another family from the conference came into Bueno, too. The mother looked exhausted and obviously hadn’t washed her hair for several days. The older children supervised the younger children. Mom ate while holding the baby on her lap. Dad ordered everyone around like a good headship.

11. Steve fake cries at the drop of a hat. Story featuring a son doing things for other people? Cry. Story about grandchildren? Cry. We have books on the back table and please buy them and put money in the love-offering box? Cry.

[sparkles]

Hmm, still reading through but the bit about the Adobe license caught my eye.

Yes, you can get a student license for Adobe Creative Cloud and yes, it's $25 but that's PER MONTH, not a flat fee. Homeschooled students do qualify though

From Adobe

Homeschooled students†

Proof of eligibility may include:

• Dated copy of a letter of intent to homeschool

• Current membership ID to a homeschool association (for example, the Home School Legal Defense Association)

• Dated proof of purchase of curriculum for the current academic school year

This could explain why Mary is taking so long to "graduate" from Flowing Streams, uh, the Maxwell SOTDRT. Once she's out, the monthly fee for Creative Cloud goes up to $49.99 per license so if every Maxwell wants it, that's a hefty monthly fee. Which I know all too well.

Methinks Steve is fudging things a little.

ETA: I'm REALLY curious how they work this because unless they're using old versions of Adobe software, you can no longer purchase programs on CD. The current versions are all by online subscription and you're allowed on desktop and one laptop per license, IIRC. Something really smells about this.

[quiversR4hunting]

Hmm, still reading through but the bit about the Adobe license caught my eye.

Yes, you can get a student license for Adobe Creative Cloud and yes, it's $25 but that's PER MONTH, not a flat fee. Homeschooled students do qualify though

From Adobe

This could explain why Mary is taking so long to "graduate" from Flowing Streams, uh, the Maxwell SOTDRT. Once she's out, the monthly fee for Creative Cloud goes up to $49.99 per license so if every Maxwell wants it, that's a hefty monthly fee. Which I know all too well.

Methinks Steve is fudging things a little.

ETA: I'm REALLY curious how they work this because unless they're using old versions of Adobe software, you can no longer purchase programs on CD. The current versions are all by online subscription and you're allowed on desktop and one laptop per license, IIRC. Something really smells about this.

Some of the "kids" could be going to clown college then they would qualify as a student. there is also a license for photography....hmmmm but I agree Sparkles, something is still fishy

[lilith]

It surprises me that they're so blatant about begging for love offerings. I expected a little more middle class reticence re money from the Maxwells

[sparkles]

Some of the "kids" could be going to clown college then they would qualify as a student. there is also a license for photography....hmmmm but I agree Sparkles, something is still fishy

Post-secondary has to be accredited, no homeskoolin' for college. And the photography license only gets you Photoshop and Lightroom. Currently, Mary is the only one eligible for student pricing and they can only drag that out another year, two tops. So either they're using pre-CC versions of the suite, which wouldn't surprise me since you've got to connect online to Adobe at least once a month and how know what ebil stuff Adobe could be infecting you with, or they're lying.

[salex]

7. Steve says the world is full of cowards. Just look at the TSA in the airport. Um, yeah. I guess this is just more reason to him to isolate his family.

Big talk from someone who takes an rv instead of a plan and is afraid of his kids watching tv or having non family friends.

I get so tired of this "TSA is abusing us" from a variety of Christian groups and people, most of whom, like Steve, aren't flying.

Google the words TSA and Christians and the stream of paranoia is lengthy and gushing. Yeah, I am going to quasi-defend TSA, steve, because I fly. I fly a lot. I flew September 10, 2001 and again on September 21, 2001, when there were military uniforms and machine guns and dogs at the airports, and when the passengers in our plane applauded when we landed. TSA is not perfect, but the "intrusion" is not that great and frankly, it is part now part of flying, and they serve a purpose.

I fly on average one round trip a month and my husband more often than that. And if it makes us cowards to be OK with not letting people bring weapons on the plane, then ok, whatever. I am not afraid of the exray machine and any "nudie" photos Steve and company think are being ogled by the poor sap at TSA who has to look at xrays of the flying public, (That has to be a treat!) :?

I am not worried that the random times I"m chosen for xray will cause cancer, though if it shows any iffy spots, I wish they'd give me the slide to take to my doctor-- :)

Because I fly, and I'm cowardly enough to want a certain amount of security even if it is imperfect.

I am more afraid of getting in line behind a "tourist" who is shocked and appalled that she can't take her 16 oz bottles of shampoo, conditioner, lotion and whatever else she has in her carry on (despite this being the policy for several years and the 43 signs before she got to the luggage xray) Than I am about the idea that a bored female TSA employee is getting any fun out of patting me down. :P

So fuck off steve. Cowards quit their jobs because they are afraid of women. Cowards don't allow anyone in their family to mingle without their parents, no matter their age. Cowards are afraid of everything else, but offer false bravado about people trading security for freedom. What in your life indicates you believe in freedom?

[AllisonWndrland]

My husband I shared a married people look when Steve started pushing the student license for Adobe.

Mary never said anything about not graduating yet, either. She said she is studying accounting and Steve is going through it with her, but nothing indicated it was still part of her homeschool experience. That makes it even more interesting....

[kpmom]

I'm confused. They said Sarah is the one who writes the Mom's Corners? They seem to be written from Teri's point of view (and she's the Mom), so I don't get that.

It sounds like Elissa and Joseph are a match made in, uh, heaven. Two different fathers completely isolated their kids. What are the chances?

Having the females do payroll doesn't surprise me. They are supposedly in training to be helpmeets, and being able to do your headship's books would be a good skill in their eyes.

I can't believe Steve so, so, so blatantly threw Liz and her family under the bus like that.

[salex]

It surprises me that they're so blatant about begging for love offerings. I expected a little more middle class reticence re money from the Maxwells

I'm not surprised. They have a ministry -- so asking people to support it is not at all out of line in their eyes. They are a sleekerer variation of Jill and what's his name Rodriques and a local version of John Schrader. This is how they make their living.... Writing and self publishing books (no one but they must believe they are worth publishing) pimping said books at day long seminars and getting paid for the seminars via the love offering (and or selling admission) They may or may not have to pay the churches they use to do said book promotions.

And the money isn't for them, really, it is to keep doing God's Work!

[VodouDoll]

Did he really cry when he asked for money? Wow.

[AllisonWndrland]

I'm confused. They said Sarah is the one who writes the Mom's Corners? They seem to be written from Teri's point of view (and she's the Mom), so I don't get that.

I can't believe Steve so, so, so blatantly threw Liz and her family under the bus like that.

Sarah herself said it. I also thought I heard wrong, but no one corrected her. And my husband turned to me and said the comment about Sarah writing them. It was odd, to say the least. Teri said she "helps" with the Corners and didn't clarify what that means. So I'm not sure if it was a slip and we aren't supposed to know that, or if Sarah sketches the Corner out first and Teri fills in the bulk of the Corner later.

It was pretty obvious Steve was talking about the Muncks. He was more agitated and animated than at any point prior or even after. And it was just so damn specific. Father putting his daughter out to be perfect and godly during phone calls, daughter doing the same, then they see the daughter's true self and she is wild and ungodly. Steve used another word in the description of how the daughter truly was, as well, but I can't remember it.

Edited to add the phone calls statement. That's important.

[AllisonWndrland]

Did he really cry when he asked for money? Wow.

Not really, but close. He literally does the fake crying thing about 6 times throughout the afternoon. He did it twice within about 15 minutes at one point. Mr. Allison whispered if Steve started crying again he was going to call him on it.

[VodouDoll]

I can't believe he thinks that the only reason a young woman would break an engagement to his carefully raised reversal son is that she's wild and willful and unchristian, and that he's still so furious about it all this time later, when Joe has obviously moved on and even married someone else. Mad enough to rant to a hundred strangers.

I mean, I can believe it. I wish there were stronger words than megalomaniacal lunatic. When we said that we'd love to be flies on the wall Chez Maxwell when Steve got the news that his plans were foiled by a young woman who knew her own mind and was brave enough to speak up, it sounds like we were right on the money. He lost his shit over it and it's still lost.

Thank god Liz didn't get the memo about little girls having little voices. Jesus H Christ.

[Justme]

I wonder how Elissa feels about the bitterness towards Liz. If she is truly the "love of his live", Joe should be grateful the Munck wedding didn't occur.

So Steve, it was OK for your son Chris to dump HIS finance, but not OK for Liz to dump Joe.... You are an angry, bitter old man. You have no concept of LOVE. I doubt you've ever loved Teri. She's just a possession for you.

[treemom]

Wow. This might explain some of the smirking when I told Steve how I felt about him. Your impression of the boys being arrogant lined up with mine, especially Joseph.

[Coco]

7. Steve says the world is full of cowards. Just look at the TSA in the airport. Um, yeah. I guess this is just more reason to him to isolate his family.

Big talk from someone who takes an rv instead of a plan and is afraid of his kids watching tv or having non family friends.

I get so tired of this "TSA is abusing us" from a variety of Christian groups and people, most of whom, like Steve, aren't flying.

Google the words TSA and Christians and the stream of paranoia is lengthy and gushing. Yeah, I am going to quasi-defend TSA, steve, because I fly. I fly a lot. I flew September 10, 2001 and again on September 21, 2001, when there were military uniforms and machine guns and dogs at the airports, and when the passengers in our plane applauded when we landed. TSA is not perfect, but the "intrusion" is not that great and frankly, it is part now part of flying, and they serve a purpose.

I fly on average one round trip a month and my husband more often than that. And if it makes us cowards to be OK with not letting people bring weapons on the plane, then ok, whatever. I am not afraid of the exray machine and any "nudie" photos Steve and company think are being ogled by the poor sap at TSA who has to look at xrays of the flying public, (That has to be a treat!) :?

I am not worried that the random times I"m chosen for xray will cause cancer, though if it shows any iffy spots, I wish they'd give me the slide to take to my doctor-- :)

Because I fly, and I'm cowardly enough to want a certain amount of security even if it is imperfect.

I am more afraid of getting in line behind a "tourist" who is shocked and appalled that she can't take her 16 oz bottles of shampoo, conditioner, lotion and whatever else she has in her carry on (despite this being the policy for several years and the 43 signs before she got to the luggage xray) Than I am about the idea that a bored female TSA employee is getting any fun out of patting me down. :P

So fuck off steve. Cowards quit their jobs because they are afraid of women. Cowards don't allow anyone in their family to mingle without their parents, no matter their age. Cowards are afraid of everything else, but offer false bravado about people trading security for freedom. What in your life indicates you believe in freedom?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

and, the thing about TSA employees enjoying the pat-down, uh no. Steve-o should understand more than anyone that making something off limits heightens the impact it has. Like holding hands while dating being such a big deal to isolated courting couples because they never touch. TSA employees don't give a rip about anything except security, they're like health care workers, it's just standard boring procedure and probably about as exciting to them as a judge at a dog show. Just a job.

Steve has issues.

[Jana814]

Not surprised that the boys seem arrogant. I mean they probably get it from their father.