Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[Sobeknofret]

We don't single out the gays. You don't know enough about me to say that I do. You have no idea what other things I am for or against. In the bible, there are sins worse than others. There is even a sin that is called unpardonable.

Josh has NEVER wanted to murder anyone. I don't know where that came from. The Bible says that we are to judge them by their fruits.

I've read Josh's stuff. That's where I got it.

And you do single out the gays. Don't see you condemning all those other sins or getting as hyped up about them as you and your husband do about LGBTQ folks. You really, really need to reread Romans prayerfully and with an open heart. Cherry picking in this instance is doing you no favors as far as Scripture is concerned.

[3_and_counting]

I've read Josh's stuff. That's where I got it.

And you do single out the gays. Don't see you condemning all those other sins or getting as hyped up about them as you and your husband do about LGBTQ folks. You really, really need to reread Romans prayerfully and with an open heart. Cherry picking in this instance is doing you no favors as far as Scripture is concerned.

We do condemn other sins, such as divorce, adultery, sex outside of marriage, lying, laziness and etc.

[formergothardite]

If I could get a vote against my brother marrying again (unless it was to return to Jessica...he and Tashia were never married), I would. I don't agree with it.

So you aren't going to be gracious enough to admit that you want to vote to force your religious beliefs on others? You want to tell the very religious gay couple I know who have been together for decades but lived apart because their religious beliefs did not allow them to live together before marriage(they now can get married in NC and they did), that your religious beliefs trump theirs so they and their church must follow the beliefs of you and your church. You want to vote that they can't practice their religious beliefs. People who vote against gay rights rarely want to admit that they are okay with taking away the religious rights of others.

[formergothardite]

We do condemn other sins, such as divorce, adultery, sex outside of marriage, lying, laziness and etc.

I'm assuming you both speak out against obese pastors who go to church potlucks and eat more than they should? You would never go to a church where they allow people who gain weight because they overeat to serve in leadership positions? You would vote to take away rights to people who overeat?

[3_and_counting]

I'm assuming you both speak out against obese pastors who go to church potlucks and eat more than they should? You would never go to a church where they allow people who gain weight because they overeat to serve in leadership positions? You would vote to take away rights to people who overeat?

This is getting ridiculous. You're reaching in order to make your point. In what world is obesity and homosexuality anywhere near the same thing?

[fundiefan]

No, I wouldn't be okay with it. On what grounds would there be for that? This nation was founded on the Bible and the bible is what I stand by.

And there it is. All the reason in the world needed to know that Kristina is a robot repeating what she's been told by those who share her beliefs.

The United States, founded on the bible. Oh holy hell,. I'm glad my United States doesn't force me to believe some religious nut's version of reality.

My United States was founded on many things but none of them had to do with a 2,000 year old book. In fact, my United States was 'discovered' and becoming what it is before 1611 so the KJV bible had no part in it. My United States doesn't force the entire county to live by the rules of any religion, despite the attempts of the many branches of Christianity to change that. My United States allows me to be religion free and not be punished (officially; we all know the good little Christians have all condemned me to hell already and since I've had sex outside of marriage and smoke and drink and wear pants and work and am divorced...I am assuming some good Christians think I should also be killed). Thankfully, my government does not follow what the good Christians say or want - at least not yet.

[fundiefan]

This is getting ridiculous. You're reaching in order to make your point. In what world is obesity and homosexuality anywhere near the same thing?

Let's look at what you just said. You want ridiculous? You want to use your bible, which is nothing to me and to many others, to determine our lives. In what world does your bible and the actions of those who don't believe in occupy the same realm? You cannot decide how people live or believe, and you especially can't decide based on a book you believe in but others do not.

If your god wants to send people to hell and / or punish them for some sin, then it's up to your god to take care of that if and when he/she/it and these people ever meet. Not you, not your holy book, not your church and not your evangelical politicians who use their church to preach politics.

You reach to unnatural lengths any time you attempt to use your religion, your god and your bible to dictate whether a person is decent or not; you reach to obscene degrees when you use those same things to judge others who do not share your beliefs.

With that, I am done with this girl. She'll pop back up from time to time and FJ will talk about her again from time to time - no doubt the babies will keep coming so there will always be 'news' - but I am done. I don't argue with children and I don't argue with those whose intelligence level isn't even on the same level as my six year old nephew.

[nelliebelle1197]

No, I wouldn't be okay with it. On what grounds would there be for that? This nation was founded on the Bible and the bible is what I stand by.

THIS NATION WAS NOT FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE! You could not be more wrong. Please turn off Fox "News". The establishment clause was not meant to protect religion from government but government from religion. Learn your history, sister.

[formergothardite]

This is getting ridiculous. You're reaching in order to make your point. In what world is obesity and homosexuality anywhere near the same thing?

Your Bible? It should concern you that you have been taught such a cherry picked version of the Bible that you didn't immediately know that the Bible says gluttons should be avoided, are an enemy of the cross and that it is better to kill yourself than to overeat. Killing yourself is pretty extreme, don't you think? Must be a bad sin.

I'll provide the verses for you:

Proverbs 23:20-21

19Listen, my son, and be wise, And direct your heart in the way. 20Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; 21For the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty

So the proverbs direct believers to not be around gluttons, so it would only follow that if you truly treated all sins the same as you do homosexuality, you would stand up and speak out against any pastor or church leader who over ate.

18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite

Gluttons are enemies of the cross of Christ. That seems like it would be right up there with your views on homosexuality.

There are other verses if you are really interested. The reason, IMO, that fundamental churches do not treat gluttony like they do homosexuality is because it is the sin that many members struggle with. They want to punish others, not themselves, so they will gloss over these verses, claim that God didn't really mean for them to be taken seriously, or they will jump through hoops to claim that they don't say what is written. The fact that they will tear a person to shreds if they do this with verses about homosexuality, now that is ridiculous.

Kristina, why don't you want to admit that when you vote against gay marriage you are voting to take religious rights away from other people and force yours on them? Does it make you uncomfortable to think about doing that?

If you want to learn the truth about the founding of our nation, I would suggest that you read Lies My Teacher Told Me. I've heard Liars For Jesus is good, but I've never read it. Or you can remain willfully ignorant.

[milkncookies76]

No, I wouldn't be okay with it. On what grounds would there be for that? This nation was founded on the Bible and the bible is what I stand by.

Treaty of Tripoli, love. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

I like how you're all into "letting the people choose" until something affects you personally.

[milkncookies76]

This is getting ridiculous. You're reaching in order to make your point. In what world is obesity and homosexuality anywhere near the same thing?

I'll ask again, since you never answered my question. What have I ever done to you that you would want to take away my right to marry the woman I love?

[dianapavelovna]

Treaty of Tripoli, love. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

I like how you're all into "letting the people choose" until something affects you personally.

This is my favorite!

[milkncookies76]

Kristina, I'd like to know how you feel if, one day, hypothetically, the United States became a majority Hindu country. They ban the consumption of beef, place statues of Ganesha, Hanuman, and Shiva everywhere, and try to make laws based on their religion. Would you accept the fact that these laws and regulations were passed by the will of the people, or would you try to overturn them, as they are not a part of your religion? How would the constant condemnations of your religion and lifestyle feel?

[milkncookies76]

This is my favorite!

Loooooooove it!!!

[fun2beme]

Damn... that's all I can say... just... damn

While I do not agree with her beliefs, I was impressed/surprised that Kristina put as much time into this as she did, especially with all the kids and being pregnant. I also don't expect to see her again but wish her well. Perhaps some day, circumstances will make her aware that life is not as black and white as she sees perceives it.

[formergothardite]

IMO, it is very, very hard for people who live and breath the idea that this is a Christian nation and so Christians(at least one version of Christians) should get to do whatever they want to people who do not believe like them, to accept facts that prove that this was not founded as a Christian nation. I will be shocked if Kristina addresses the Treaty of Tripoli, trust me, it is not something that is taught in Christian history books, so she probably hasn't heard of it. I was surprised the first time I heard of it here.

They also do not want to discuss, talk about, or acknowledge that they are in fact just denying people the right to practice their religious beliefs and forcing their personal religious beliefs on individuals and other churches. On some level I think they must know that it is wrong to do this, and so instead of admitting it, they just continue to ignore it so that they can tell themselves they are right and everyone else is wrong. They can't explain how they aren't forcing their religion on others or why their religious beliefs should trump even other Christian denominations, so they just ignore, ignore, ignore.

[nataraja]

I know this isn't going to be a post of much worth but anyway.

Has anybody ever noticed the similarities with the Kardashians? The Kardashian's mother is called Kris and one of her daughter is called Khloe Kardashian. The blogger is called Kristina and has a daughter called Kloe.

[treemom]

In Romans where it talks about all those things and all that do them being worthy of death...we have all done those at one time or another, We are all worthy of death. Its because of what Jesus did on the cross that we can escape that death it's talking about. By accepting what Christ did for us.

So if you insist of saying being gay is a sin you agree that Romans I indicates it isn't any different than those other sins?

Ps. http://soulforce.com/wp-content/uploads ... lesays.pdf

[PrairieGirl]

Damn... that's all I can say... just... damn

While I do not agree with her beliefs, I was impressed/surprised that Kristina put as much time into this as she did, especially with all the kids and being pregnant. I also don't expect to see her again but wish her well. Perhaps some day, circumstances will make her aware that life is not as black and white as she sees perceives it.

I too am surprised. Many here will vehemently disagree with me, but I have always had a soft spot for Kristina. Partly because at least she has the cajones to show up here, for what that's worth, but partly because I see a lot of myself in her. I was very much like her when I was younger. We were reared very much the same. My father had a college education, however, and we did go to a very small private Christian school that was probably one crappy step above homeschooling. College was an absolute no-no, unless it was to find a godly Christian husband who was preferably going to be a pastor and our plan would be to raise an ignorant army for god.

And I was sheltered, sheltered, sheltered. I firmly was taught and believed that America was founded by Christian men (mostly Baptist) like Washington and Jefferson who marched over here with their KJV Bibles and their submissive women marching behind them in ankle-length denim skirts. Fortunately my eyes were opened at a younger age than Kristina is now, and I no longer see the world in black and white.

Kristina, no one here is trying to change your beliefs. You can believe what you want, and so can I. You can vote for who you want, and so can I. You can love who you want, and so can I. You can wear what you want, and so can I.

Kristina, the world is a beautiful place full of beautiful people. I hope you get a chance to see more of it some day. In the meantime, read about it. Study it. I love books. You've said that you do as well. They are wonderful things, and they can open your mind to places and people. Listen to other people, too. Ask questions, much as we have asked questions of you. I have appreciated you answering questions here, even though you've been criticized for a lot of your answers.

If you don't come back here, take care Kristina. I hope you and your family stay well.

[treemom]

This is getting ridiculous. You're reaching in order to make your point. In what world is obesity and homosexuality anywhere near the same thing?

In Romans I

[Curious]

In Romans I

Gosh don't you hate it when that happens! :doh:

[formergothardite]

I read David Barton's take on the Treaty of Tripoli and he claims that that part was added later and doesn't actually mean what it says. :roll: Sure it is in the original document, but he isn't going to believe that because God, Jesus and his Bible told him this country was founded as a Christian nation and no pesky facts are going to get in the way of that. :roll:

[Curious]

I read David Barton's take on the Treaty of Tripoli and he claims that that part was added later and doesn't actually mean what it says. :roll: Sure it is in the original document, but he isn't going to believe that because God, Jesus and his Bible told him this country was founded as a Christian nation and no pesky facts are going to get in the way of that. :roll:

uh how was it "added later?" They didn't exactly have white out back then :shifty-kitty:

[formergothardite]

Gosh don't you hate it when that happens! :doh:

Her response reminded me of this blog post:

http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/literalist-gluttony

It is titled Everyone is a Biblical Literalist Until You Bring Up Gluttony. Kristina, if you come back, read it and pay special attention to this part:

Heck, you could make a pretty good biblical case for gluttony being a “lifestyle sin†that has been normalized by our culture of "Supersized" portions and overflowing buffet lines, starting with passages like Philippians 3:19 (“their god is their bellyâ€), Psalm 78: 18 (“they tested God in their heart by demanding the food they cravedâ€), Proverbs 23:20 (“be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meatâ€), Proverbs 23:2 (“put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetiteâ€), or better yet, Ezekiel 16:49 ("Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.")

Yet you don’t see weigh-ins preceding baptisms or people holding “God Hates Gluttons†signs outside the den of iniquity that is Ryan’s Steakhouse.

And we haven’t even touched on materialism, or the fact that on the day I stuffed my face with froyo, 30,000 kids died from preventable diseases and many more went hungry.

It seems the more ubiquitous the biblical violation, the more invisible it becomes.

I can’t help but wonder if biblical condemnation is often a numbers game.

Though it affects more of us than we tend to realize, statistically, homosexuality affects far fewer of us than gluttony, materialism, or divorce.

This is exactly why Josh will rant about homosexuality but won't blink an eye at watching people eat too much food at a church event. It is why Kristina thought that I was being ridiculous and couldn't understand where I was coming from. It is all from the very same Bible she claims to follow literally, but she has been conditioned to see one thing as a sin and the other as not one because it is more convenient for her church to treat gluttony as a joke and being gay as evil.

I don't know if she will come back to read this, but I hope if she does it gives her something to think about.

[formergothardite]

uh how was it "added later?" They didn't exactly have white out back then :shifty-kitty:

Satan slipped it in using special devil magic to fool people? He doesn't really explain, at least in the article I read. He also claimed that being a Universalists back when our country was founded was actually being a fundamental, biblical literalist, so those founding fathers who were Universalist believe just like he does.

It is scary that people let him write text books.