Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[nokidsmom]

Why don't you vote, Kristina?

Yes, I would to know also. Because it is your legal right to do so. Why don't you exercise this legal right?

[treemom]

Here you go Kristina, here are my unanswered questions. (going from most recent post backwards) (and a couple more I don't think you have answered...although there may be more from others, this is not comprehensive.)

So if you insist of saying being gay is a sin you agree that Romans I indicates it isn't any different than those other sins?

Ps. http://soulforce.com/wp-content/uploads ... lesays.pdf

Kristina, I'd like to know how you feel if, one day, hypothetically, the United States became a majority Hindu country. They ban the consumption of beef, place statues of Ganesha, Hanuman, and Shiva everywhere, and try to make laws based on their religion. Would you accept the fact that these laws and regulations were passed by the will of the people, or would you try to overturn them, as they are not a part of your religion? How would the constant condemnations of your religion and lifestyle feel?

The cognitive dissonance here interests me. You believe women should only get higher education through correspondence courses (or, I assume, online) but at the same time you want to go to female doctors. Your female doctor presumably went to a real, brick-and-mortar university - therefore as her patient, you're supporting her choice to attend a university, possibly leaving home. Would you trust your health to a doctor who only received their medical degree via correspondence? Do you vet your doctor to make sure she went to a correspondence/online school, or that she lived close to home with her parents while attending school, or whether she was unmarried while attending school?

And if you answer "no" to those: if you're using a female doctor who went away to a real university, isn't that encouraging others to not follow the way of life you think is the most godly? How do you reconcile that?

Disclaimer: I don't think all online degrees are bad in the medical field for continuing education (the university I work for has a few online nursing courses), but I've never heard of a credible way to get a medical degree entirely online or via correspondence.

For this one you answered the first question but not the second

Another question I thought of:

~Do you still think that it takes two to break a marriage? Why? Is it not possible that one spouse could do everything right and the other could still break off the marriage?

I wonder if we have a language issue here? Is Kristina saying that no job and skirts only are fine beliefs with merit and she still feels others who find these "convictions" important are on the right path for them, but that she is no longer one of those people?

Hence, she still believes in those things being right, but right for others, not herself at this point?

I am actually curious about what she said regarding abortion. Kristina, you said your views in abortion haven't changed so do you continue to believe the best way to stop abortion is propaganda (let's just argue for the moment it is factually propaganda), picketing clinics and working at crisis pregnancy centers?

[PrairieGirl]

All this gluttony talk is really making me look forward to Thanksgiving dinner. :pizza:

[nolongerIFBx]

All this gluttony talk is really making me look forward to Thanksgiving dinner. :pizza:

Totally stealing that smilie!!

[ILoveJellybeans]

Look, Josh has a cousin that is gay, I have friends that are gay. We don't go out of our way to avoid them but We also don't go out of our way to spend time with them. They know where we stand, we don't constantly preach to them or make our times together awkward.

I think the assumption here is that we hate anyone gay, that is simply not the truth. We have no problem with the person, we just do don't agree with their lifestyle.

What lifestyle though?

I am a lesbian. My friends over the years have included straight people, as well as gay and bisexual people. Sexual orientation has had no effect on what kind of people that they are.

Some of us have long term serious relationships, some of us have had a series of short term relationships, some of us are mostly single. Some of us have casual sex, others would never have sex with someone unless they were in a fairly serious relationship. Im a virgin. These aren't dependant on sexual orientation-there are straight couples who have been together for years, and gay couples who have been together for years. There are straight people who sleep around, there are gay and bisexual people who do that too.

Our lifestyles are as varied as our sexual orientations-we represent a variety of religions, hobbies, relationship statuses, numbers of kids.

There is nothing I can say about the "gay lifestyle" as it does not exist. There is no specific gay lifestyle, just as there is no straight lifestyle.

Being gay is more like hair colour, eye colour, skin colour and other things that we don't choose. I did not choose to be gay, I started having crushes on other girls when I was 7, before I knew that it was possible for a woman to like another woman in that way. It isn't a decision we make, it is something we are. There is no way I could ever marry and have sex with a man, its just not right for me. Any more than you could just decide to be gay and start having sex with women. It doesn't work that way. I am an atheist, but you would think that God made me and everyone else, right? So why did God make me attracted to women and not to men?

[thoughtful]

Here are some questions of mine that you have not answered, Kristina:

Early in your relationship with FJ, you proudly linked to your blog post criticizing Debi Pearl's Created to Be His Helpmeet. You were roundly praised for it:

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/1427#.VGer28mf2-c

So, I ask again, are you submissive in your marriage? If so, how does it differ from Debi's definition of submission?

Do you think that courtship and/or submissiveness are what has made your marriage work?

I'm not asking you to make or deny statements about what is right for all, just for you.

Oh, and since you didn't answer that question -- do you still need to pretend that what you call "popping" or "discipline" is not making hard contact with your child's body to cause pain -- that is, hitting?

Do you still think that spanking and popping are somehow magically not the same as hitting?

BTW, Kristina, you promised that there would be "many more" posts about the Pearls -- what happened? I know you've given up blogging, but you could tell people here or on Facebook -- do you want to give your opinions of To Train Up a Child?).

And I also want to know why you don't vote.

[formergothardite]

While I'm not familiar with church potluck culture, I would frame gluttony as being selfish about food rather than just eating a lot. In Biblical times, someone eating a lot would mean that someone else wouldn't get fed - so that's different to now. While I appreciate your Biblical literalist background, and me being a liberal Christian, you can be a Biblical inerrantist and also put the Bible into context. Context isn't picking and choosing, it's being MORE diligent about reading the Bible. This is isn't me saying that gluttony isn't sinful, I just don't think it can be simply rendered as 'overeating'. I think it's more about depriving others of food through your own greed.

I'm also uncomfortable with distinguishing between good fat people who eat 'healthily' (what is healthy for one is not healthy for another) and bad fat people who eat 'too much'. The truth is that all people deserve dignity and respect, and being healthy is not a moral stance. I have chronic illness - I will never be healthy, so am I a bad fat person? Putting health on a pedestal is a bad idea. I have IBS-d and high fibre foods make me ill, for instance - so I have to have white bread, pasta etc and have to avoid pulses and wholegrains. This seems a very unhealthy diet to outsiders, but 'healthy' food would actually make me ill.

I'm only going with the literal interpretation of the Bible just as it is written in the KJV because Kristina claims she is a biblical literalist. Unless this is changed too and she no longer thinks the Bible should be taken literally.

I don't believe being fat is bad and I hope no one actually thinks I follow the Bible literally or at all. I think all people deserve respect, I don't care what they eat or don't eat. The point I was trying to make with Kristina was that she takes the Bible literally when it come to gay people and refuses to look at it in the context of when it was written or anything like that, but when it comes to the verses about gluttony, she isn't treating them the same way.

I struggle with my weight and the only reason is my eating habits. I eat too much and am lazy. The money I spend on food I don't actually need could easily go to help feed the hungry. But I bet that even at my heaviest I could have walked in there and joined Kristina's church with no one even blinking an eye. I wonder if anyone would have asked about gluttony before letting me join? I will have a hard time believing it if she suddenly claims her church grills prospective members about gluttony before allowing them to join.

[FoxyMoxie]

I'm still considered fundie by the definitions that FJ uses but I have to disagree. The act of homosexuality may be a sin, but it does not prevent you from accepting Christ as Savior any more than my lying or gluttony, or--here's one a lot of fundies have trouble with-- pride or arrogance would keep me from being saved. Continuing to practice such behaviors after salvation would cause a rift between me and my Savior, but would not negate my salvation.

But homosexuality is not an act! Sexual activity between two people of the same gender is an act but is not orientation. Indeed, plenty of straight people engage in it. You can be homosexual and never have sex with anyone, and be straight and have sex with anything with a pulse (including those of your gender).

[fun2beme]

While I'm not familiar with church potluck culture, I would frame gluttony as being selfish about food rather than just eating a lot. In Biblical times, someone eating a lot would mean that someone else wouldn't get fed - so that's different to now. While I appreciate your Biblical literalist background, and me being a liberal Christian, you can be a Biblical inerrantist and also put the Bible into context. Context isn't picking and choosing, it's being MORE diligent about reading the Bible. This is isn't me saying that gluttony isn't sinful, I just don't think it can be simply rendered as 'overeating'. I think it's more about depriving others of food through your own greed.

I'm also uncomfortable with distinguishing between good fat people who eat 'healthily' (what is healthy for one is not healthy for another) and bad fat people who eat 'too much'. The truth is that all people deserve dignity and respect, and being healthy is not a moral stance. I have chronic illness - I will never be healthy, so am I a bad fat person? Putting health on a pedestal is a bad idea. I have IBS-d and high fibre foods make me ill, for instance - so I have to have white bread, pasta etc and have to avoid pulses and wholegrains. This seems a very unhealthy diet to outsiders, but 'healthy' food would actually make me ill.

Weight is a touchy subject. If you're too thin, people think nothing of coming up to you and telling you that you need to go to McD's. If you're overweight, people give you disgusted looks. I've been at both ends of the spectrum.

Interesting take on gluttony and greediness. I was also told that gluttony covers overindulging in anything - too much time spent watching TV, on the internet, etc.

Possible TMI: I have IBS as well but my issue is the opposite of yours. I have to eat large quantites of fiberous foods and veggies are my friend. I think this plays a huge role in keeping off the 40+ lbs I lost a few years ago.

[FoxyMoxie]

formergothardite - thanks for the clarification, sorry for misunderstanding.

fun2beme - yeah there are a few different types, I wish I could eat high fibre food - I really miss it! It means I can't eat many breakfast cereals that aren't made for kids (I love granola but just can't manage it) or most of the veggies I like in anything but small quantities.

[formergothardite]

I did not intend to make anyone feel bad about their weight or eating habits. I was raised a biblical literalists like Kristina(again, unless she has changed and no longer thinks the Bible should be taken literally) so just as it was wrong to look at Paul's words about homosexuality and say that if we look at the cultural context Paul is not speaking about consensual happy gay marriages, it was also wrong to look atsome of the verses about eating too much and say that they really meant gluttony was being selfish about food and making others hungry. At least in theory that is how it worked and if pressed people would still claim to take all verses literally.

In reality it ended up a lot like Kristina where people thought you were ridiculous if you treated gluttony like other less common sins. And it was okay to have church leaders who were known for eating huge quantities of food. And nobody was going to ask a person about gluttony before allowing them to join the church. Yes, they would preach against it, but nobody was going to make a big deal over it like they would something like homosexuality.

[3_and_counting]

I'm going to respond to this about the gay and gluttony topic and then I'm done.

I can only find 4 verses that mention gluttony at all and in those 4 verses I do not find it saying anything about it being an abomination. I agree that it is a sin, one that should not be done, but it is not an abomination. Therefore, not the same as homosexuality.

About being Christian and gay-

In Romans 1:28 it says that God gave them over to a reprobate mind. He says this before listing everything else in the following verses. The definition of reprobate is,

1. to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable or evil.

2. to foreordain to damnation.

3. to refuse to accept.

And the Strongs for it means

Castaway, rejected, unapproved, worthless (literally or morally).

How can someone how chooses (yes, I believe its a choice) to have that life that is completely against God, claim to be a child of God. Its not possible. Is it forgivable, yes. Can you be saved, yes. Can you be gay and saved, no. Romans 1 shows us this. God rejects, condemns and finds it completely unacceptable.

Voting-

Why don't I vote? That is just simply because I haven't. I'm not opposed to it, I just haven't.

Am I still against the Pearls...yes.

I'll have to go back to individual posts to answer the others, I can't remember what all of them were.

[FoxyMoxie]

But Kristina, HOW is homosexuality a lifestyle? What about celibate gay people? There is nothing that gay people all have to do apart from being attracted to people of the same gender - and that's hardly a lifestyle, unless being straight is also a lifestyle.

[treemom]

head:desk

[thoughtful]

Am I still against the Pearls...yes.

That's not what I asked.

So, I ask again, are you submissive in your marriage? If so, how does it differ from Debi's definition of submission?

Do you think that courtship and/or submissiveness are what has made your marriage work?

I'm not asking you to make or deny statements about what is right for all, just for you.

Oh, and since you didn't answer that question -- do you still need to pretend that what you call "popping" or "discipline" is not making hard contact with your child's body to cause pain -- that is, hitting?

Do you still think that spanking and popping are somehow magically not the same as hitting?

[3_and_counting]

Here are some questions of mine that you have not answered, Kristina:

And I also want to know why you don't vote.

I was going to do more posts on the book "Created to be his helpmeet" but I have lost it and I have no idea where it is gone. I had thought that I had it on my bookshelf but, I must have left it somewhere when I was doing my study for my next post.

I am submissive to my husband but not in the "I'm a doormat" kind of way. I think what has made mine and Josh's marriage work is that neither one of us are afraid to admit wrong and say I'm sorry. We communicate and we both try our absolute best to put each other first (yes, above the kids) We make time for dates at least once a month. We've kept each other a priority.

I've never read "To train up a child" but I don't care for it just going by what I know about the book. Their form of discipline is, IMO, abusive.

Do I "hit" my children...I still hold to my answer, no. There is a difference between hitting and spanking...anyone will give that answer when asked.

[3_and_counting]

But Kristina, HOW is homosexuality a lifestyle? What about celibate gay people? There is nothing that gay people all have to do apart from being attracted to people of the same gender - and that's hardly a lifestyle, unless being straight is also a lifestyle.

Any life that is lived has a lifestyle. A lifestyle is something you choose. God did not create gay people. How could God create a person to do something that He is so against? Something that he condemns.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I was going to do more posts on the book "Created to be his helpmeet" but I have lost it and I have no idea where it is gone. I had thought that I had it on my bookshelf but, I must have left it somewhere when I was doing my study for my next post.

I am submissive to my husband but not in the "I'm a doormat" kind of way. I think what has made mine and Josh's marriage work is that neither one of us are afraid to admit wrong and say I'm sorry. We communicate and we both try our absolute best to put each other first (yes, above the kids) We make time for dates at least once a month. We've kept each other a priority.

I've never read "To train up a child" but I don't care for it just going by what I know about the book. Their form of discipline is, IMO, abusive.

Do I "hit" my children...I still hold to my answer, no. There is a difference between hitting and spanking...anyone will give that answer when asked.

What is the difference between spanking and hitting?

Spanking is when you hit a child with your hand or something when they have done something wrong.

Hitting (or assault) is when you hit an adult in the same way.

Hitting a child should be worse than hitting an adult because children are innocent and are totally dependent on their parents. If someone hit their partner in the way that a parent hits their child, to teach them a lesson when they did something they considered bad, their partner could leave them for it, but a child cant. They have no way out unless someone notices and takes them seriously, and our already overworked child protection system manages to do something to help them. If you hit an adult in the way a parent would spank a child, they would be committing domestic abuse. Why can an adult hit a child but not another adult?

Any life that is lived has a lifestyle. A lifestyle is something you choose. God did not create gay people. How could God create a person to do something that He is so against? Something that he condemns.

So why am I gay. I knew I was gay before I knew what being gay was. I feel the same way about sex with a man as you do about the idea of you having sex with a woman.

[FoxyMoxie]

Any life that is lived has a lifestyle. A lifestyle is something you choose. God did not create gay people. How could God create a person to do something that He is so against? Something that he condemns.

So straight people choose their lifestyles?

I have never ever chosen to be bisexual. I have always been attracted to more than one gender, since way before I could name those feelings. I don't have any kind of 'bisexual lifestyle', I'm not having sex with *anyone*. So what exactly is it about my life that God hates? Even if God did condemn same-gender sexual activity, that's not the same as an orientation - that's an inherent part of who someone is. Can you really not understand the difference between being gay and acting on that?

[FakePigtails]

Even if being gay were a choice, why would anyone choose it when it could cause them to lose their family, their job, even their life?

(hint: it's because it's not actually a choice)

[thoughtful]

OK, if gluttony is not a good analogy because you can't find a verse in which the Bible calls it an abomination, how about lying?

Churches tend to not take a firm stand on gluttony because then there would be no one in church. Gluttony is like lying, everyone does it. Not that it should not be taken seriously because it should.

Proverbs Chapter 6

16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 8:7 - For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.

So, if "everybody lies," it's suddenly not an abomination?

Here are some other abominations, per the KJV:

Deuteronomy 22:5 - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Hmmm . . . are you sure being skirts only is a personal conviction, that you can now close your eyes to, even though they were open before?

Proverbs 11:1-31 - A false balance [is] abomination to the LORD: but a just weight [is] his delight.

Are butchers who put a thumb on the scale disfellowshipped from your church, or not allowed to join in the first place?

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib ... omination/

(countdown to "that's not NT, so it doesn't count" -- 5 ...4...3...)

[3_and_counting]

What is the difference between spanking and hitting?

Spanking is when you hit a child with your hand or something when they have done something wrong.

Hitting (or assault) is when you hit an adult in the same way.

Hitting a child should be worse than hitting an adult because children are innocent and are totally dependent on their parents. If someone hit their partner in the way that a parent hits their child, to teach them a lesson when they did something they considered bad, their partner could leave them for it, but a child cant. They have no way out unless someone notices and takes them seriously, and our already overworked child protection system manages to do something to help them. If you hit an adult in the way a parent would spank a child, they would be committing domestic abuse. Why can an adult hit a child but not another adult?

So why am I gay. I knew I was gay before I knew what being gay was. I feel the same way about sex with a man as you do about the idea of you having sex with a woman.

Because we are all sinners in need of salvation. We all have a sin nature and its because of our sin nature that we do the things we do. The only way to escape the punishment for our sin nature is to turn to Christ and to repent and be saved. It's only then that we have victory over sin...through Jesus Christ. Thats not to say that we will never sin again, we are human, we sin...but because of having been saved, we can no longer live in that sin, as a lifestyle.

I have heard many opinions on why people are gay. I've heard anything from demon possession to its the way society has changed and how people have viewed things.

Personally, I believe that its Satan attacking the family. If Satan can get a hold of the children and turn them away from what God teaches, then he can break down families.

[treemom]

So if you feel attracted to the same sex but never ever act on it are you sinning?

[FoxyMoxie]

Kristina - I love God. I am saved. I am still bisexual. It's a gift from God, not a 'sin lifestyle'. There is nothing about my 'lifestyle' that is any different to my totally straight best friend.

[formergothardite]

I had started to list all the verses about gluttony(some places say there are close to 40), but I got five verses in(if you only found four Kristina and I could come up with five off the top of my head, you should read your Bible more) and realized that I am dealing with someone who is okay using the government to force her religious beliefs on others, so she is just simply not going to care. She doesn't care what the Bible says about gluttony. She doesn't care that there is most likely more verses on that subject then on homosexuality. She doesn't care that her church would allow members to join if they are living in the sin of gluttony. She just doesn't care. She isn't opposed to voting. And if she does get around to it she will use her vote to try and force churches to follow the beliefs of her church, but it is too damn hard for her to think critically about why homosexuality is treated so differently than other sins.

The verse about gluttony being an abomination is in Ezekiel. It lists the sins of Sodom(which doesn't include being gay), one of them is eating too much, and the Bible says that by doing so they were haughty and committed abominations against God and therefore God destroyed them.