Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[treemom]

And if you didn't want to have people comment on your beliefs perhaps you should not have mentioned them.

[treemom]

And telling you that you have no right to expressing an opinion and not having it challenged had nothing to do with whether I accept people have differing opinions.

[treemom]

God I really find people who say I didn't call someone who had an abortion horrible but I totally am wling to interfere in the medical decision of other women while saying anyone who articulates how they disagree with my opinion are violating my rights shit really distasteful.

[fundiefan]

If you changed your opinion, Kristina, just acknowledge it. It garners much more respect when you acknowledge that you changed than it does to pretend the past never existed.

I don't truthfully think Kristina is capable of mature, intelligent discourse. Not to put her down - it's not her fault. She simply wasn't raised and hasn't lived a life that involved other people, differences without being defensive/accusatory, openness, questioning, analyzing and...admitting you just don't fucking have all the answers but are doing your best.

I don't think she will ever be capable of that. And again, not because she's stubborn or a bitch, but simply because she has zero clue that it's possible or even an option. The small, narrow, controlled world she was raised in didn't allow for her to think, analyze or be. She had to conform. She 'got saved' at what...six or nine or something?

I'm more interested in what Tashia has to say because, to be honest, even if it's tinged with bitterness it's probably far more honest, truthful and realistic than what Kristina says.

I don't say that to insult or humiliate Kristina. It's just my opinion. My conviction, if you will. It's what I believe.

[formergothardite]

And that is fine for you to believe that. As I said, I am not here to argue my beliefs. I am 46 years old and have been through a hell of a lot in my life. This is not something I will ever change my mind on, just like I am sure you won't change yours either. My step-daughter had an abortion, her dad and I never told her she shouldn't or said she was horrible or any of those things. We love her and were there for her through it. She was grown and her choice. Doesn't mean we approved of it, but we never said anything to her. It was three years ago, and she stills says it was the biggest mistake of her life. She is dealing with all sorts of depression and loss over this decision. But even before I saw this firsthand, I didn't support abortion. I don't get out and hold signs, or write blogs about it. It is just how I feel.

So basically you don't like to bring pesky facts into it and would rather rely on emotions in making a decision about other woman's body? I think I would not change my mind on this issue, but having changed my mind about so much, I will never swear I won't change it again. I don't want to get to the point where I am so set in my ways that I refuse to look at facts and reality.

And for every story of a woman who regrets her abortion, there is the story of a woman who regrets she couldn't have one. Study what happens to women when they are denied abortions. It isn't pretty. One women in the study died because she was forced to give birth. But "pro-life" people rarely care about the women they hurt it is all about the fetus.

Your beliefs impact my life and the lives of my daughters and it terrifies me that people will pass abortion laws based on emotions.

[Palimpsest]

Tallulla.Belle, you are treading on some rather thin ice here when it comes to my temper. Yes, I have one. I'm also not very receptive to side-winders.

I'm going to repeat Treemom's exact words. "In what world do you think you are immune from criticism?" You should be here to argue your beliefs, on abortion and many other things, and to enjoy and defend your snark. Oddly enough, that is what FJ is all about. We are no holds barred here. Like it or lump it. Don your flame proof undies.

So with that in mind, I'd like to point out that you are actually something of a catalyst in this situation. You, Sis. Julie's "friend," broke the news on FJ about Ronnie's bunk from his marriage -- and that provoked all this discussion on FJ. With "friends" like you who needs enemies?

Serious question: Why don't you say what you have to say to Kristina's face, Ronnie's face, and Sis. Julie's face? I find your anonymous "friend" taunting of Kristina (and family) on FJ rather distasteful. Correction: very distasteful.

Kristina has explained many times why she decided to let her father put her engagement ring on. I don't see why she needs to explain it yet again to the long-term family "friend" because it is hardly newsworthy. A quick search will give you the info you need.

[Snarkle]

My husband spent over 30 years in the military fighting an insuring that we have rights in this country. I came here because I was generally interested in opinions of fundies. I have never attacked anyone, but I also won't sit back and just be attacked either. I can accept people that have different opinions, from the sound of it you can't.

I am supportive of opinions, but they are just that, opinions (or beliefs). Not facts, not evidence, just what one thinks.

I am supportive of the military 100% and am very appreciative of what they have done and are doing for this country. I have veterans in my family and know people injured in Afghanistan and Iraq. But they are not "insuring (sic) that we have rights in this country" because I see fundies as trying to take away a lot of my rights (abortion for one) and as far as I can see the military is not doing anything to stop people like the Duggars and their ilk from taking that right away. The military does protect and serve us, and I thank your husband for his service so do not read into this that I am anti-military or not grateful to those who serve, but semantics count here.

[treemom]

I know I can be sensitive about abortion, and certainly I have made it my think here on FJ because of the misconceptions of what it looks like to have an abortion in your third trimester.

So I am glad when others who are likely less emotional about it than I comment. I feel the FJ love tonight :). Even if we aren't a give vagina.

[Palimpsest]

I know I can be sensitive about abortion, and certainly I have made it my think here on FJ because of the misconceptions of what it looks like to have an abortion in your third trimester.

So I am glad when others who are likely less emotional about it than I comment. I feel the FJ love tonight :). Even if we aren't a give vagina.

You should feel the love. :)

[treemom]

And my last post proves I have had the wine tonight. Give vagina. I am not good at the proofreading

[Palimpsest]

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion. Very entitled to it without being attacked. Just because people do it, doesn't mean it is right. My husband spent over 30 years in the military fighting an insuring that we have rights in this country. I came here because I was generally interested in opinions of fundies. I have never attacked anyone, but I also won't sit back and just be attacked either. I can accept people that have different opinions, from the sound of it you can't.

Oh my giddy aunt! She actually played the military card. :lol:

Uh, Tallula.Belle, honey.

You didn't come here because you were generally interested in Fundies. I think 23 of your 27 (at my last count) posts were direct attacks on the Brown family and Kristina. As a long-term "friend" of the family.

[Tallula.Belle]

Oh my giddy aunt! She actually played the military card. :lol:

Uh, Tallula.Belle, honey.

You didn't come here because you were generally interested in Fundies. I think 23 of your 27 (at my last count) posts were direct attacks on the Brown family and Kristina. As a long-term "friend" of the family.

Oh honey. I will play any damn card I want, because I can. Sadly, my husband did risk his life for people like you. I think you know where you can go with your comments and now, I am done with you. Obviously, you are an instigator. I was nothing but nice to you. People like you deserve zero respect in any way shape or form.

[Palimpsest]

Oh honey. I will play any damn card I want, because I can. Sadly, my husband did risk his life for people like you. I think you know where you can go with your comments and now, I am done with you. Obviously, you are an instigator. I was nothing but nice to you. People like you deserve zero respect in any way shape or form.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Tallula.Belle. I think you have lost all credibility here.

[thoughtful]

We are all entitled to voice our opinion about our views without being attacked for it.

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion. Very entitled to it without being attacked.

I have never attacked anyone, but I also won't sit back and just be attacked either.

When and where were you attacked?

This is not a pleasant thread -- we've all been despairing of many aspects of Kristina's life, and you've been in the forefront of that. But the first of your references above came after someone simply disagreeing about one issue.

I don't think that people posting that they want women to have the right to choose can be defined as attacking you.

[Tallula.Belle]

When and where were you attacked?

This is not a pleasant thread -- we've all been despairing of many aspects of Kristina's life, and you've been in the forefront of that. But the first of your references above came after someone simply disagreeing about one issue.

I don't think that people posting that they want women to have the right to choose can be defined as attacking you.

She said I didn't have a right to my opinion and ask me in what universe did I live to think that I did. I repeatedly said, I didn't want to argue over it and she continued to bring it up. I was nothing but nice and respectful until her last post to me. I now have her blocked, so if she says more, at least I will never know. Perhaps you read things differently, but none of the tone in any of her posts to me was nice.

[Tallula.Belle]

So basically you don't like to bring pesky facts into it and would rather rely on emotions in making a decision about other woman's body? I think I would not change my mind on this issue, but having changed my mind about so much, I will never swear I won't change it again. I don't want to get to the point where I am so set in my ways that I refuse to look at facts and reality.

And for every story of a woman who regrets her abortion, there is the story of a woman who regrets she couldn't have one. Study what happens to women when they are denied abortions. It isn't pretty. One women in the study died because she was forced to give birth. But "pro-life" people rarely care about the women they hurt it is all about the fetus.

Your beliefs impact my life and the lives of my daughters and it terrifies me that people will pass abortion laws based on emotions.

Ditto. Your beliefs terrify me too. Since we don't agree, I am sure you don't mind my blocking you as well as your friends. For the record, I was ask to come here, but it will be a cold day in hell before I share anything else with the likes of you people. Actually, I just realized Kristina is a much better person than any of you.

[thoughtful]

She said I didn't have a right to my opinion and ask me in what universe did I live to think that I did. I repeatedly said, I didn't want to argue over it and she continued to bring it up. I was nothing but nice and respectful until her last post to me. I now have her blocked, so if she says more, at least I will never know. Perhaps you read things differently, but none of the tone in any of her posts to me was nice.

I'm not sure who you mean by "she," but, guessing that it's Treemom, who was the first to respond to you about your "not believing in" abortion, here's the exchange:

You:

I don't think she has said anything about her view on abortion changing. Just other things. It is not just fundies who don't believe in abortion. I don't either and I am no young girl. I am middle aged. Yes I think most of what fundies say is wacky but I never try to say they are not entitled to believe the way they want.

Treemom:

Well it happens, whether you believe it or not. And she is entitled to hold repugnant views about abortion, but she isn't entitled to lie (her abortion blog did) or not be called out about those repugnant views and lies.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22561&start=360#p830242

Your next post started the claims of you (not Kristina) being attacked.

Yes, it escalated after that, but you were also going on at length. And she did not say you were not entitled to an opinion at all, just that nobody is entitled to give their opinion unchallenged.

And I agree -- nobody is entitled to say whatever they want without being challenged by someone who disagrees. Those are the rights your husband fought for.

You came here, you posted, and you said something that upset someone and with which several people disagreed.

Argue anti-choice, if you want, or bow out of the argument if you don't want to get into that in this venue. But if you give your opinion about abortion, even going on to post a story about how horribly someone regretted theirs, a few of the 8000 people on this forum might want to post an answer to you.

That's not an attack, in my opinion.

[nelliebelle1197]

People really should not try to fight a battle when they are not even prepared for a board game.

[Curious]

She said I didn't have a right to my opinion and ask me in what universe did I live to think that I did. I repeatedly said, I didn't want to argue over it and she continued to bring it up. I was nothing but nice and respectful until her last post to me. I now have her blocked, so if she says more, at least I will never know. Perhaps you read things differently, but none of the tone in any of her posts to me was nice.

Actually she said, you don't have a right to have your opinion go unquestioned. There is a big difference between those 2 things. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

[nelliebelle1197]

Actually she said, you don't have a right to have your opinion go unquestioned. There is a big difference between those 2 things. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

In fact, criticism is part and parcel of any higher level discourse. True intellectual evolution only comes through constant challenge and reexamination of one's self directed paradigm and that requires criticism and analysis of belief. Human intellect yearns for challenge in order to expand; criticism is the spark to the flame that moves our minds from shallow to deep. But that is just my opinion.

[thoughtful]

For the record, I was ask to come here, but it will be a cold day in hell before I share anything else with the likes of you people. Actually, I just realized Kristina is a much better person than any of you.

The bolded is new to me, unless I missed something earlier.

Did you mention who asked you? Was it Julia, or someone already on FJ, or . . . ?

You seem enraged about the fact that some of us believe in a woman's right to choose, and very ready to judge us (some of us? all of us? hard to tell) very harshly and universally over this one issue, when, only a few posts ago, you were conspiratorially dishing on Kristina.

It's just odd.

[lawfulevil]

Tallula.Belle- Honey, I don't know where in hell you think you purchased moral authority, but you need to go get your money back pronto. You're not a nice person. You're the kind of person who comes to a snark site to throw your long-term friends under the bus because you enjoy the attention. All while gleefully admitting that they've still got you friended on Facebook because they don't know who's doing it. This is one truly fucked up family, but the appropriate response to finding out that you're friends with amoral douchebags is to friend-dump them and move on with your life.

Kristina- I think you're a jerk. But that doesn't mean you deserve friends like this. And it sounds like your mom has been through enough lately without this kind of bullshit. So here's everything TB's claimed about herself since she arrived here:

She's a 46 year old new mother who lives in Georgia with her husband of "20+ years", a "30+ year" military man who is also a lawyer. Her husband was diagnosed with cancer last year and she's happy they had Blue Cross Blue Shield Federal. This is NOT the default insurance provider for veterans, so either she or her husband work for the federal government. She has an adult stepdaughter, who had an abortion 3 years ago. She originally met your mother online through blogging. She knows details of your life and the lives of your parents and siblings that were not publicly published on Facebook, so she is Facebook friends with multiple members of your family.

Presumably this doesn't describe too many of your mom's friends. So it's either all lies, or it should be pretty easy for your mom to figure out who's behind this.

[treemom]

TB,

When I said it happens whether you believe it or not I was mocking your "I don't believe in abortion". I hate that phrase. You might not believe in abortion but it happens. I think you meant you don't believe in the legal right to abortion. Or maybe you meant you think abortion is killing a human being.

It was never needed for you to say anything about your personal beliefs about abortion. No one asked you or pressured you to do so. It is perfectly acceptable for you to offer your viewpoint, but you don't get to dictate how people respond to it.

You don't have a right to express an opinion and hen demand no one else gets to express an opinion about your opinion. And I will be honest, I believe you certainly don't have a right to ask it of me. When I express my opinion I am doing so knowing exactly why I have it in a very practical sense. I am one of the women who has had a third trimester abortion. I am one of the women who had an abortion by a doctor who was later murdered (in his church). I am one of the women who has to leave her home state to travel for an abortion because of restrictive laws. I am one of the women whose choice was influenced by laws passed to protect the "sanctity of life" but really would just cause suffering and pain.

So yes, you get your opinion. Have at it. You have a choice as to whether to express it or not. But should you express it, and do so freely and not under pressure, well you should expect that other people will also express opinions.

[PrairieGirl]

Well, this thread has taken a heavy turn. And I think it is becoming obvious that Kristina is not going to come back, which is pretty much par for the course for her.

But we are really missing an important fact here, which is: IS MICHELLE'S HUSBAND STILL KEEPING HER IN CHURCH??? :D

[3_and_counting]

Wow, I have a migraine and am gone for the day and BAM! Just wow!

Way too many questions to answer but, I'll do my best.

Yes, Michelle and her family are still in church, is that a bad thing?

We all know where I stand on abortion, that has not changed.

My beliefs on dress have not changed. Back when I had this discussion years ago I believe I said that it was something that I believe God has to open your eyes to and convict you of, some people never have their eyes opened to it. That has not changed. I have NEVER stated that a woman would go to hell for wearing pants.

I've never had issues with women getting an education, I just said through correspondences. I see a female Dr because of the fact that I do not judge others for their decisions and choices and because I find it very uncomfortable to show all to a male I do not know.

Someone, I can't remember who, asked how we make it financially. Saying there was no way we pay for our insurance and making the assumption we are on government assistance. They said something about how they bring in $200,000 annually and can manage to afford the one child they have. I believe you said you live in Australia. The cost of living is much, much higher there. We do pay for our own insurance for the entire family. Our kids are well taken care of and are pretty spoiled actually. We are on no sort of government assistance. We hold our own and are doing it quite well.

As for Tallula Belle, I still have no clue who she is, that doesn't sound like ANY of my mom's friends. Not that we personally know anyways.

I would love for Tashia to come and have a conversation here. I have not said anything about her other than to respond about what she has said about us. I will not share anything personal about her unless she brings it up. And to say that "all three of us" have attacked her over all this...I never did. I messaged her to ask if she was going to let you guys know some facts and she never responded.

I think I covered everything...