Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[notsocommon]

The REST of Romans 1:

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Why do you deliberately misquote this passage? Why conveniently cut it off early?

Do note that FORNICATION is part of a reprobate mind.

[FoxyMoxie]

I've never assumed that. Going by what scripture teaches, you cannot be saved and live a homosexual lifestyle. You can't be saved and turned over to a repobate mind.

That is NOT what Scripture teaches. For a start 'a homosexual lifestyle' is just a nonsense phrase. I am bisexual but I don't have a 'bisexual lifestyle', I'm just a normal person who likes cats and Gotham and is in love with a nice Episcopalian boy. How the eff is that 'a reprobate mind'???

[3_and_counting]

And this is why I would rather go to hell if your version of God is real. Spending an eternity with a God who looks at the loving gay couple who helps the community as a reprobate and unable to be saved but looks a man like your brother as just a sinner but totally capable of being saved, would be hell itself.

A good God would love people unconditionally. Not with the condition that they must love him back and follow some pretty bizarre rules. Only a self-absorbed God would behave like yours. Your God is not good. He is not loving. He is evil, selfish and cruel. That is what your worship. That is what you praise. I remember what it is like to be blinded to the reality of this, but once you see it, it is hard to go back to finding any comfort in that sort of a God.

I honestly think that if I had been raised a liberal Christian I would have kept my belief in the Bible and God. Satan didn't cause me to lose my faith. Looking at the God I worshipped did.

I never said they couldn't be saved because they can be.

[formergothardite]

So you can be saved and gay at the same time? Because it seemed like you were saying a happily married gay couple who provided a stable home for their children and interpreted the Bible to say that being gay is okay were not really saved.

ETA:

Saying being gay is sinful is what is ridiculous. It hurt absolutely no one. It occurs in nature. It is like saying persimmons are sinful. It is just a random thing that makes no sense. It doesn't tear the concept of family apart since gay couples are families that raise children, providing them with a loving stable home. How can something be a sin if it hurts nobody?

[notsocommon]

....continuing on to Romans 2:

1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

In other words, Who do you think you are to judge anyone as you also have a reprobate mind? Show the same loving kindness God has shown you or be in contempt of his loving kindness.

Romans goes on to say that no one is righteous, and it is FAITH, not acts that saves us.

Romans is a LETTER. You can't pluck a verse out of it and act like it is a trump card. You have to read the verse in CONTEXT of the whole letter. There is absolutely nothing that supports the notion that one can not be gay and Christian.

[milkncookies76]

I'm sorry you all feel that God is a hateful God. He's not, he loves all and wants to save all...you have to see yourself for what you are to truly realize how much God loves you. His only son died so that you could live.

I'm done on the homosexuality topic. I've said all that can be said about it.

You haven't answered my questions...but yeah, whatevs, I guess.

I'm curious what your opinion is of Muslims who consider Jesus to be a prophet, Hindus who consider Jesus to be an avatar of Vishnu, and Sikhs who believe that Jesus spread the word of the Guru. Do they count as "saved" in your mind?

[Palimpsest]

Kristina,

When you say: "I'm done," it really means that you have been backed into a corner, lost the argument, and really can't think of any better response than to withdraw.

Fair enough. I hope you withdraw and consider what people have said. Think about it seriously and learn from the defeat. Could it be that you are wrong?

Please look into gentle parenting. Don't just dismiss it because it was recommended here on FJ. You could learn from the techniques as opposed to assuming that the only way to teach your children is by inflicting pain.

[fun2beme]

That is NOT what Scripture teaches. For a start 'a homosexual lifestyle' is just a nonsense phrase. I am bisexual but I don't have a 'bisexual lifestyle', I'm just a normal person who likes cats and Gotham and is in love with a nice Episcopalian boy. How the eff is that 'a reprobate mind'???

I don't know why but that struck me as being hysterically funny.

For those who say they don't want to go to Heaven if it means being with fundies (Kristina, if you read this, I am NOT referring to you personally so please don't take this as an attack on you), why do you assume they'll be in Heaven in the first place?

[anniebgood]

....continuing on to Romans 2:

In other words, Who do you think you are to judge anyone as you also have a reprobate mind? Show the same loving kindness God has shown you or be in contempt of his loving kindness.

Romans goes on to say that no one is righteous, and it is FAITH, not acts that saves us.

Romans is a LETTER. You can't pluck a verse out of it and act like it is a trump card. You have to read the verse in CONTEXT of the whole letter. There is absolutely nothing that supports the notion that one can not be gay and Christian.

I told her about the judging others in Romans 2 a way back. I guess she cuts it out of her KJV, but it's right there in black and white in my NRSV. I'm not keen on Paul at all. He says these things, but Christ never said any of that. So who do we take for real, Christ who told us to love our neighbors as ourselves or Paul who said women should shut up and be quiet? An easy choice for me.

[notsocommon]

Annie,

For me, it is the words of Jesus that take priority. That should be common sense!

I did laugh when I looked up Romans 1. Kristina clearly cut it off at a point convenient for her. It is not just the gays that are reprobate.

ETA: This is what happens when you read the Bible through the lens of a study guide. You don't get a clear picture. All you get is cherry picking of carefully selected verses to 'support' a particular view.

It seems that no one simply cracks the Bible open and reads it, alone, anymore.

[treemom]

None of what Kristina said is shocking to me. I know people who believe that and are far more liberal than she. I just don't get it. I look at the same bible she believes and I don't see what she is seeing. I guess she can say that's because God hasn't opened my eyes or because I am an unbeliever, but what she says doesn't match up to what Jesus said.

I am so glad the way I have chosen to raise my son is different than the way your parents raised you Kristina. It makes me sad to see what I believe is the destruction of an intelligent mind and vibrant personality.

I am sad for your brother (even though by every indication he isn't a super stellar person these days) because he might have been different, a good man if he was raised in a home that supported critical thought. Maybe he could have found a better way to navigate his life.

And I am sorry for your kids because you believe in college by correspondence. And you hit them. And I am not sure you want them to think critically.

And I am sorry for all of you because I believe you have wasted your lives. And it makes me angry at your parents. They wronged you so much.

[formergothardite]

By the way I should clarify. Even though her brother doesn't seem like much of a person at this moment, I don't think he deserves hell. I also think he is a product of the house he was raised in. If he had not been raised like that, if he had been allowed to date and discover what he liked in women, he might have not ended up leaving his pregnant wife and small children.

I do feel sorry for people who close their minds to thinking critically about their beliefs. I think a lot of it stems from fear.

[Childless]

This whole thread makes me happy I left religion behind.

[thoughtful]

I'm sorry you all feel that God is a hateful God.

All?

I don't believe God is a hateful God -- I don't believe in anything supernatural, so I just don't think there is one. Other people on this thread believe in a loving and forgiving God.

It is your concept of God, and what He thinks and does, that they are pointing out as hateful.

He's not, he loves all and wants to save all...you have to see yourself for what you are to truly realize how much God loves you.

What does that mean? I see myself for what I am -- that has nothing to do with believing in a supreme being.

His only son died so that you could live.

No, my parents had sex so I could be born and live. Before that, their parents had sex, so they could be born and live. After 80 years, my father got sick and died. My mother and I are still living.

Did you mean eternal life?

[Haligh the Liar]

Kristina, since you believe the bible is inerrant, can you answer the following for me:

1. Who wrote the bible?

2. When?

3. In what language was it written?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I spent ages writing a post to Kristina about why I feel that being gay is not a sin, and asking why she thinks that and why I should obey religious laws of a religion I do not belong to and why the government should make laws based on a religious law when you have separation of church and state......but nothing.

Soooooooooooo Kristina, tell me again, why should I not have sex with other women because your religion says it is wrong. I am not a Christian. I eat bacon even if Muslims believe it is wrong to, because I am not a Muslim. Just as I do not hide that I eat bacon from my Muslim friends (but generally avoid eating it right in front of them, just as I do with my friend who is a vegetarian), I will not hide being gay from the world because your religion doesn't like it (but I wont deliberately make out with a woman right in front of you just to make you uncomfortable).

Also why should the law tell us who we can and cant marry? The only thing that tells us that is certain religions. There is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage-the only objection people have is religious laws. And the government is not allowed to make laws based on religious law. Marriage also isn't Christian-every religion has a marriage ceremony of their own, and there are also secular marriage ceremonies with no religion at all, and all of these are valid in the eyes of the government. I don't have a problem with certain churches choosing not to marry gay people because they feel it is against their religion, just the same as I would accept any other standards that places of worship have for who can get married there. As long as there is somewhere I could get married, that is fine-some more liberal churches would allow it, as well as the government, which is what matters the most as all church marriages must meet the standards of the law (like that there is a minimum age to get married, churches cant decide to marry two 15 year olds if the government says you have to be 18.)

Also who does being gay harm? I don't have a reason to deny my attraction to women because I am not part of a religion that says it is a sin. So I cant accept "because God/the Bible says so". What other reasons are there?

[Rebelwife]

The way it's looking to me, hell is probably full of nicer people than heaven. I think i will prefer to go there.

“Go to heaven for the climate and hell for the company.â€

― Mark Twain

[nolongerIFBx]

But homosexuality is not an act! Sexual activity between two people of the same gender is an act but is not orientation. Indeed, plenty of straight people engage in it. You can be homosexual and never have sex with anyone, and be straight and have sex with anything with a pulse (including those of your gender).

By act of homosexuality I meant sexual activity between same sex couples. My apologies for not being clear.

[FoxyMoxie]

So when straight people have sex with someone of the same gender, they're participating in 'the act of homosexuality'? This is why conflating orientation with sexual activity is a problem.

[formergothardite]

If Kristina comes back I would like her to watch this video. No, she may not encourage violence, but her belief system plays a part in creating this sort of violence. There is no reason to view consenting gay relationships as a sin and doing so only hurts people.

Warning, this video is disturbing.

[bBvideo 560,340:277ne1z8]

[/bBvideo]

[fundiefan]

From Jessica's Facebook it looks like Jesus has waved his miracle wand and brought Ron back to his rightful wife.

Totally not surprised. Disgusted, but not surprised.

[ViolaSebastian]

Oh man...I just lost any respect I had for Jessica.

How does this work? Does he have to go back to court to regain parental rights so he can sign permission slips?

Also, I predict a baby announcement by New Years.

[Georgiana]

Oh man...I just lost any respect I had for Jessica.

How does this work? Does he have to go back to court to regain parental rights so he can sign permission slips?

Also, I predict a baby announcement by New Years.

At least in my state, if his rights were completely terminated (and the process wasn't just underway but not complete), he would have to basically adopt the children. It would be easier because he is biologically their father, but he would still have to go through the paperwork and stand in front of a judge to get them returned.

[treemom]

I am not opposed to a reconciled marriage. But I hope they go to a real marriage counselor. An actual psychologist.

[lawfulevil]

Oh please. Their marriage is reconciled only until Ronnie finds his next "soulmate". You know, at the usual Soul Mate of the Month clubs, e.g. the next cubicle at work, in line at the gas station, living next door, or on Ashley Madison. He'll keep stepping out on Jessica, their families will keep blaming her, and she'll keep taking his sorry ass back. Because let's be real here: even if they got therapy (they won't), not all mental health 'professionals' are created equal, and the kind of therapist/psychiatrist they'd hire will be blaming everything on Jessica.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

My ex-husband and I went to marriage counseling. Once. Whereupon I was informed that the Problem wasn't that my husband went to work, came home, played World of Warcraft for 10+ hours, and then crawled into bed at 3 AM expecting sex... the problem wasn't that he literally believed his SOLE responsibility in life was to bring home a paycheck and everything else was MY problem... the problem wasn't that I was expected to do all this on a very limited allowance because my husband was spending all the money on video games, traffic tickets, and his sports car... No. According to the ($250/hr) marriage counselor, the problem was that I was being a shrew about being completely ignored and then woken up in the middle of the goddamn night and expected to play Porn Star Barbie.

Unlike Jessica, that shit did not fly with me. 'Well at least he goes to work", my foot. Well, at least I haven't murdered him for the insurance money and buried his ungrateful ass in 6 locations in Rocky Mountain National Park.