Kristina of Keepsakes pregnant and due #4 in March

[Childless]

OK, I meant to back out of this thread but then got an attack of conscience. I called Kristina wily and manipulative (and with a catty streak). It was mean to do that and then walk away. I see she responded. It would be unfair to walk away leaving that hanging. I also said she posted hatred on her blogs. That should have been hateful content.

Here is an outline of my problem with Kristina. It started way back on yuku, but her recent actions haven't done much to change my basic opinion of her. I haven't had time to go back to find all the links (some of you - especially Treemom, Thoughtful and Childless?) may remember some of it. If my memory is at fault, I am happy to be corrected and will apologize as necessary about things that I got wrong. If I did.

Kristina came to our attention when her Arby proposal video went viral. FJ didn't have much to do with that.

At some time after that she came to FJ yuku and tried to explain herself. Sanctimoniously, hypocritically, and often contracting herself. Oh she was young, but perfectly fine. I excused her a lot for her youth. I wondered at the time how she was justifying her presence here to herself and her family/husband. My guess is that she was "sharing her testimony." Wily.

She got herself quite a fan club. People were very kind to her. I'm always wary of pet Fundies but I was kind to her. When defeated in argument she'd back away and then come back. First asking for help on marketing her baby blankets (I still laugh at the KkK). That seemed a transparent plan to sell her crocheting here, but no biggie. Later she returned to try to sell her MLM. Wily and manipulative.

Kristina presents very sweetly and disingenuously. However, her (and her husband's) beliefs were not so pretty. Enough with the skirts only questions, let's go for the real stuff.

Her abortion blog was vile. She wants to say - "Oh, that was so 5 years ago!" So, Kristina, do you regret that blog?

What are your beliefs on raising children these days Kristina? How good a mother are you? I seem to remember that you and Josh were very into corporal punishment. Is that still a good thing?

Your husband also displayed some very unpleasant bigotry in the past too. Anything you'd like to say about that, Kristina?

I understand why Kristina gets upset when things she published openly, or private family matters leaked by family friends, get discussed here and elsewhere. The tantrum on her blog wasn't very clever though. She misrepresented and greatly exaggerated some aspects of what had been said here. She did not admit to having been a poster here. She was also very rude to people who have actually been quite nice to her in the past. Catty. wily and manipulative.

Than she prances in yesterday full of the joys of spring, expecting a joyous welcome, and asking us to be civil. Her posts since then have been disingenuous and, again, contradictory. "I never said that!" Yes, Kristina, you did. I also noticed that rather dirty sideswipe you took at Tashia earlier.

I've done my best to be fair over the years and was actually defending and making excuses for her earlier in this very thread. Page 5ish?

So, giving Kristina the benefit of the doubt once again:

Why don't you just tell us how your beliefs have been modified over the last 3 years? What do you regret? How have you changed?

I don't remember a lot of it, but I do remember she was quite sanctimonious. And I agree that her abortion blog was hateful (and that's putting it lightly).

[nelliebelle1197]

I can't believe people are defending her because she has "changed" and her wardrobe conforms more to what they think it should. That's the gist of it, you know.

Here's the deal: yeah, people's opinions and beliefs evolve over time. Sure, this woman's beliefs may have changed. BUT she is prancing on here here and saying some things have changed while denying the worst of her core beliefs - "Oh, I didn't mean women would go to hell for wearing jazzy capris and working. It was just a conviction and that is all I ever said or meant"- never addressing the fact that at least two posters have pulled quotes from her that contradict what she says now that she believed then. It was not a conviction, it was immutable truth to you a couple years ago, dear. Own up to that, why don't you?

[treemom]

I am just saying the change could be good. I am not defending her.....I hope she continues to evaluate things. But I pretty much agree with palimpsest

[bionicmlle]

I'm sorry.... Did Kristina ever say (in this thread or anywhere else) that she had changed or modified her core beliefs? (I don't think crotches of clothing is really a core issue - it's a side effect.)

[PrairieGirl]

I am saying change can be good as well, and I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because when she was spouting a lot of that crap she was underage and living in her parents' house under their rules and thumbs. (I may live to regret giving her the benefit of the doubt).

She is an adult now, and what I do wish she would do is be willing to be straightforward and answer our questions like the adult she is now. Does she have an obligation to do that? Of course not! But she is STILL coming here and posting and still referencing us on FB and her new blog, so I am confused as to what exactly she wants.

[treemom]

I am saying change can be good as well, and I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because when she was spouting a lot of that crap she was underage and living in her parents' house under their rules and thumbs. (I may live to regret giving her the benefit of the doubt).

She is an adult now, and what I do wish she would do is be willing to be straightforward and answer our questions like the adult she is now. Does she have an obligation to do that? Of course not! But she is STILL coming here and posting and still referencing us on FB and her new blog, so I am confused as to what exactly she wants.

I actually do think she has a moral obligation to do so, just not an enforceable one. I think part of being a good person is acknowledging the areas that you spouted wrong, dangerous and damaging ideology and correct that where you can. Since she is posting here, she should say so. I think she should take down the abortion blog, update her current and old blogs stating her views have changed. That seems reasonable.

[PrairieGirl]

I actually do think she has a moral obligation to do so, just not an enforceable one. I think part of being a good person is acknowledging the areas that you spouted wrong, dangerous and damaging ideology and correct that where you can. Since she is posting here, she should say so. I think she should take down the abortion blog, update her current and old blogs stating her views have changed. That seems reasonable.

Well stated. I did suggest to her a few pages back that she take down or update that old blog of hers (the Keepsakes one). That is the one that I personally am most familiar with, and she spouted a lot of her beliefs on that blog, including the post where she talked about never working or getting an education ever, ever, ever because Jesus.

I am still confused about how she gets confused when we quote her or ask her questions referencing things she has said on her numerous blogs. Does she not realize that the these things are still around and that the internet is FOREVER?

[formergothardite]

I was going to give her the benefit of a doubt that she had just misremembered her past posts. I have done that irl with things. But I don't think she plans on acknowledging she actually did write those things. And yes, when your beliefs can hurt people and you change your mind, you have a moral obligation to acknowledge that these beliefs are wrong and dangerous.

Will she do so? I highly doubt it. She might surprise me and come back admit she used to believe that way and now realizes how harmful this belief system is, but I'm not holding my breath.

As for her being young and underage. At one point in one of those thread Kristina has an exchange with Treemom where she tell TM to stop treating her like she is young and doesn't know what she is talking about. Kristina said she was in her 20's, married and with a child on the way and these were beliefs she had studied and knew were right.

[PrairieGirl]

Aaaaah, to be in your early 20's and know it all! Sounds like something my 12-year-old would say.

[Georgiana]

I don't think "mis-remembering" is much of an excuse if it is written. If someone called me out on something that I wrote, something that was still easily accessible, I'd go check to see what I wrote.

I mean sure, she may not remember something off the top of her head. But how long does it take to skim a specific post? I feel like not double checking is just willful denial.

[Jessica]

Kristina on college: "Okay, onto to the next question that my Uncle asked me. "What about going to college?" and my answer to that is, by going to college you are leaving the protection and authority of the parents. Let me remind you of those verses in the beginning of the post, they said leave father and mother to cleave to your spouse. God said not to leave the home till the day that you get married. I am not at all against getting a college education, but get it by doing correspondences. My Uncle asked me if I had a desire to further my education by going to college, and I told him that no I didn't. "So you are content to just be a housewife and a mother?" I told him yes that is all that I want to be. That is what the bible instructs me to be, and that is what I want.

"Well, other than the Bible would you say that your education is important to you?" I said "Yes it is." "Then why hold to the Bible only and why not further your education, because that is what people these days hold to." He walked away before I could answer it, but here is my answer.

#1- I am not going out and getting a job, so I really don't have to depend upon having a college education.

#2- If the Bible tells me not to leave the home, I'm not going to!

If I had to chose between my Bible and my education, I will take my Bible!! My education will not bring me a Godly husband, and my education will not bring me close to God and help me live a clean life before Him.. You may say "The Bible won't either." , but by having my Bible I know to pray for a Godly husband, and I know to pray for God's help to live a clean life. The Bible does tell us how to get close to God and how to live for Him."

[Curious]

I'm not saying it's suspect as far as you are concerned, Curious, but that there are some inconsistencies (like the spelling of her own name) and if she is already outing herself as who she is, then make an account,already. As if you aren't busy enough....

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I suspect the name misspelling was an autocorrect error because I believe the "common" spelling is Tasha. I know when I was trying to post from my husband's cell phone the other day to clear up one of my posts so things didn't spool out of control before I got back home, that trying to get her name correct was a bitch. It kept trying to change it to Tosha at first, then I got that fixed and I kept trying to take the i out. I admit I am NOT savvy on the iphone as he just got it, though.

I can understand a person that isn't really familiar with us not wanting to jump head first into the fray until they have tested the waters a little bit first and I gave her the option initially because she didn't want to "out" herself just yet. Since she was verified that was fine.

I hope she will eventually join us herself not just to talk about the Brown's, but to take part in the community as a whole.

[PrairieGirl]

Kristina on college: "Okay, onto to the next question that my Uncle asked me. "What about going to college?" and my answer to that is, by going to college you are leaving the protection and authority of the parents. Let me remind you of those verses in the beginning of the post, they said leave father and mother to cleave to your spouse. God said not to leave the home till the day that you get married. I am not at all against getting a college education, but get it by doing correspondences. My Uncle asked me if I had a desire to further my education by going to college, and I told him that no I didn't. "So you are content to just be a housewife and a mother?" I told him yes that is all that I want to be. That is what the bible instructs me to be, and that is what I want.

"Well, other than the Bible would you say that your education is important to you?" I said "Yes it is." "Then why hold to the Bible only and why not further your education, because that is what people these days hold to." He walked away before I could answer it, but here is my answer.

#1- I am not going out and getting a job, so I really don't have to depend upon having a college education.

#2- If the Bible tells me not to leave the home, I'm not going to!

If I had to chose between my Bible and my education, I will take my Bible!! My education will not bring me a Godly husband, and my education will not bring me close to God and help me live a clean life before Him.. You may say "The Bible won't either." , but by having my Bible I know to pray for a Godly husband, and I know to pray for God's help to live a clean life. The Bible does tell us how to get close to God and how to live for Him."

I would LOVE for Kristina to come back and answer some of the questions we have posed to her, especially in light of what her brother has done to his ex-wife and what her dad is rumored to have done to her mom.

As for Tashia, I would like for her to join as well. My guess is that she is laying low for now. I cannot imagine the backlash she is probably receiving from the Brown family because of her coming here and ripping into them.

[Tallula.Belle]

I don't think she has said anything about her view on abortion changing. Just other things. It is not just fundies who don't believe in abortion. I don't either and I am no young girl. I am middle aged. Yes I think most of what fundies say is wacky but I never try to say they are not entitled to believe the way they want.

[Childless]

Kristina on college: "Okay, onto to the next question that my Uncle asked me. "What about going to college?" and my answer to that is, by going to college you are leaving the protection and authority of the parents. Let me remind you of those verses in the beginning of the post, they said leave father and mother to cleave to your spouse. God said not to leave the home till the day that you get married. I am not at all against getting a college education, but get it by doing correspondences. My Uncle asked me if I had a desire to further my education by going to college, and I told him that no I didn't. "So you are content to just be a housewife and a mother?" I told him yes that is all that I want to be. That is what the bible instructs me to be, and that is what I want.

"Well, other than the Bible would you say that your education is important to you?" I said "Yes it is." "Then why hold to the Bible only and why not further your education, because that is what people these days hold to." He walked away before I could answer it, but here is my answer.

#1- I am not going out and getting a job, so I really don't have to depend upon having a college education.

#2- If the Bible tells me not to leave the home, I'm not going to!

If I had to chose between my Bible and my education, I will take my Bible!! My education will not bring me a Godly husband, and my education will not bring me close to God and help me live a clean life before Him.. You may say "The Bible won't either." , but by having my Bible I know to pray for a Godly husband, and I know to pray for God's help to live a clean life. The Bible does tell us how to get close to God and how to live for Him."

I don't understand why being educated and being close to God are mutually exclusive. My brother in law is a preacher working on his master's degree. I'd say he feels he's pretty close to God in addition to being fairly well educated. Kristina's belief system makes absolutely no sense. This is the reason fundies have such a hard time converting outsiders. People usually forgo things that defy logic.

[nelliebelle1197]

I am just saying the change could be good. I am not defending her.....I hope she continues to evaluate things. But I pretty much agree with palimpsest

My post was NOT a reference to you :D

[Curious]

As for Tashia, I would like for her to join as well. My guess is that she is laying low for now. I cannot imagine the backlash she is probably receiving from the Brown family because of her coming here and ripping into them.

Last communication I had with Tashia, she was indeed getting nastygrams from the family. I'm not sure who. She just said "from all 3 of them."

[fun2beme]

I don't understand why being educated and being close to God are mutually exclusive. My brother in law is a preacher working on his master's degree. I'd say he feels he's pretty close to God in addition to being fairly well educated. Kristina's belief system makes absolutely no sense. This is the reason fundies have such a hard time converting outsiders. People usually forgo things that defy logic.

But your brother-in-law is male. The penis makes all the difference. LOL

[treemom]

I don't think she has said anything about her view on abortion changing. Just other things. It is not just fundies who don't believe in abortion. I don't either and I am no young girl. I am middle aged. Yes I think most of what fundies say is wacky but I never try to say they are not entitled to believe the way they want.

Well it happens, whether you believe it or not. And she is entitled to hold repugnant views about abortion, but she isn't entitled to lie (her abortion blog did) or not be called out about those repugnant views and lies.

[Tallula.Belle]

Well it happens, whether you believe it or not. And she is entitled to hold repugnant views about abortion, but she isn't entitled to lie (her abortion blog did) or not be called out about those repugnant views and lies.

I haven't ever read her blog about abortion. Or if I did it was so long ago that I don't remember it. I am not here to argue my beliefs. People on opposite sides of the fence about abortion will never agree. We are all entitled to voice our opinion about our views without being attacked for it. I have many friends who don't agree with things I do and vice versa. What bothers me is the education of most fundies. Even Kristina's husband has to work long hours at a menial job, to try and support his family. They have had a gofundme site for a long time begging for money to start a business. They need $200 for the start of this venture. Anyone who can't come up with $200 over the course of a year or six months, has no need to bring more children into the picture. I have never had government assistance of any kind. There is no way that they are paying for insurance for their whole family, so that means they are getting all these hospital stays paid for and all of the children care too. Josh would be wise to return to school and get some sort of education to support this family. It is obvious that K won't be doing that anytime soon, because now they could never afford childcare for her to work.

I also would love for her to explain why her dad had to put her engagement ring on? Even the Duggar's don't do that. I don't care what religion you are, if you have not at least held hands with a man, and I do mean at least then you sure have no business marrying him.

[treemom]

I haven't ever read her blog about abortion. Or if I did it was so long ago that I don't remember it. I am not here to argue my beliefs. People on opposite sides of the fence about abortion will never agree. We are all entitled to voice our opinion about our views without being attacked for it. I have many friends who don't agree with things I do and vice versa. What bothers me is the education of most fundies. Even Kristina's husband has to work long hours at a menial job, to try and support his family. They have had a gofundme site for a long time begging for money to start a business. They need $200 for the start of this venture. Anyone who can't come up with $200 over the course of a year or six months, has no need to bring more children into the picture. I have never had government assistance of any kind. There is no way that they are paying for insurance for their whole family, so that means they are getting all these hospital stays paid for and all of the children care too. Josh would be wise to return to school and get some sort of education to support this family. It is obvious that K won't be doing that anytime soon, because now they could never afford childcare for her to work.

I also would love for her to explain why her dad had to put her engagement ring on? Even the Duggar's don't do that. I don't care what religion you are, if you have not at least held hands with a man, and I do mean at least then you sure have no business marrying him.

No you are not entitled to your opinion without being attacked for it. In what world do you think you are immune from criticism?

[Tallula.Belle]

No you are not entitled to your opinion without being attacked for it. In what world do you think you are immune from criticism?

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion. Very entitled to it without being attacked. Just because people do it, doesn't mean it is right. My husband spent over 30 years in the military fighting an insuring that we have rights in this country. I came here because I was generally interested in opinions of fundies. I have never attacked anyone, but I also won't sit back and just be attacked either. I can accept people that have different opinions, from the sound of it you can't.

[formergothardite]

I think there is a difference between "attacking" and pointing out the flaws in a belief system. The simple fact is(and I spent most of my life very anti-choice) making abortion illegal does absolutely nothing to end abortion. Making it illegal only hurts women. Learning this, plus seeing how the quality of life when it comes to women is devalued in "pro-life" groups set me on the path to becoming pro-choice.

[Tallula.Belle]

I think there is a difference between "attacking" and pointing out the flaws in a belief system. The simple fact is(and I spent most of my life very anti-choice) making abortion illegal does absolutely nothing to end abortion. Making it illegal only hurts women. Learning this, plus seeing how the quality of life when it comes to women is devalued in "pro-life" groups set me on the path to becoming pro-choice.

And that is fine for you to believe that. As I said, I am not here to argue my beliefs. I am 46 years old and have been through a hell of a lot in my life. This is not something I will ever change my mind on, just like I am sure you won't change yours either. My step-daughter had an abortion, her dad and I never told her she shouldn't or said she was horrible or any of those things. We love her and were there for her through it. She was grown and her choice. Doesn't mean we approved of it, but we never said anything to her. It was three years ago, and she stills says it was the biggest mistake of her life. She is dealing with all sorts of depression and loss over this decision. But even before I saw this firsthand, I didn't support abortion. I don't get out and hold signs, or write blogs about it. It is just how I feel.

[treemom]

No one has the right to have an opinion and have it go unquestioned. I think you don't understand what a right is.