Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[16strong]

What if what they pray for comes true? He makes a statement admitting he did these things, that he didn't realize that he was hurting people, but now he see how much hurt he caused and he is sorry. Then what? We are all just supposed to hug it out and go on our merry way like he didn't spend decades destroying lives?

Isn't that pretty much what happened last time? And we see how that worked out. :roll: So what's the point of them even getting involved? Just saying sorry isn't justice for these girls. It's a starting point.

[TrueRebel1]

Perhaps this has been discussed in depth already, and if so forgive me.

My question is, if the accusations of sexual harassment are true and have proof, then why is Gothard not already locked up? If the girls who were harmed are determined to see him brought down for his actions, why have they not taken legal action?

But if the accusations have no proof (even if they did, in fact, happen) then why is the Board even taking any action about it? If the board/Gothard knows there is no "proof" then why the recent placing on leave?

And, if the alleged harassment is just under the qualifications for having him arrested, but still in the realm of very inappropriate behavior for a "man of God", then what do the 34 girls have to gain from coming forward at this point in time? Seeing Gothard placed on leave from his ministry due to possible inappropriate behavior can't be worth the trouble these girls are going thru to share their stories.

I don't know, I guess I'm just not understanding what's going on here. (Although I have no doubt whatsoever that Gothard committed every instance of alleged harassment/abuse, and probably more.)

[ILoveJellybeans]

From what I have gathered from Recovering Grace, Gothard hasn't been prosecuted for his sexual abuse of these girls because it has been so long since he did it. He probably will if the most recent ones come forward though.

[TrueRebel1]

From what I have gathered from Recovering Grace, Gothard hasn't been prosecuted for his sexual abuse of these girls because it has been so long since he did it. He probably will if the most recent ones come forward though.

That makes sense; thank you.

[Palimpsest]

That makes sense; thank you.

It also depends on whether what Gothard was doing was Sexual Harassment of women in the workplace or Sexual Abuse of under-aged girls. It seems he probably is guilty of both, if the story of his fondling 15 year olds is correct.

Sexual harassment is a civil not criminal offence (it comes under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act) with a very short period (days not years) of time when a complaint can be filed. No arrest and no jail time, just monetary compensation for any damages proven.

Sexual Abuse of Minors has no statute of limitations, however, and would be a criminal charge filed by the state with victims as witnesses.

[copper]

There is a certain kind of genius to how Recovering Grace is calling for repentance...they are not turning off a key group of Gothard's followers. Even if nothing else ever happens, Gothard will struggle with "unrepentance" and "not being above reproach". The remaining money flow of money will stop, and the ministry will die.

[PennySycamore]

There is a certain kind of genius to how Recovering Grace is calling for repentance...they are not turning off a key group of Gothard's followers. Even if nothing else ever happens, Gothard will struggle with "unrepentance" and "not being above reproach". The remaining money flow of money will stop, and the ministry will die.

Let's hope so!

[Palimpsest]

Isn't that pretty much what happened last time? And we see how that worked out. :roll: So what's the point of them even getting involved? Just saying sorry isn't justice for these girls. It's a starting point.

A couple of thoughts about what RG is saying and doing in the lastest statement. (Usual disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer it's just stuff I've picked up over the years working in APS and in at least one very toxic workplace!)

First, let me get this bit out of the way, I'm really pissed at RG's milktoast attitude to the Sexual Abuse of Minors allegations. If they have women coming forward claiming to have been molested by Gothard when they were <18 (or whatever the age of majority is in Illinois) then RG should have encouraged those women to go to the DA. The DA could then have filed criminal charges if the case were strong enough and the women were willing to testify in court. Granted the DA would only file charges if they thought they had a good case and credible and willing witnesses, but RG publishing the stories without that step potentially jeopardized any criminal case.

On the Sexual Harrassment allegations, I'm not pissed at RG. Most of them are way out of date for a civil complaint. I say "most" with the proviso that harassing behaviors occurring within the last 3/4 months may not be out of date. IIRC, in cases of ongoing SH you have 90 days to file after the date of the last incident but that may depend on the jurusdiction.

So, on the Sexual Harassment and Spiritual Abuse allegations, RG is hoping to embarrass Gothard into an apology (good luck with that!) and force the Board to take action and oust Gothard permanently. Good luck with that too! My guess is that for the victims an apology and validation of their hurts will go a long way towards healing. Gothard ousted permanently will help even more.

The stance RG is taking, so full of sweet Christian Grace, makes them look good and is rather clever. There are rumors that IBLP has retained some scorched earth type Christian attorney. RG emphasizing that their intent is not malicious protects them somewhat from Gothard/IBLP successfully accusing them of libel. Of course, so does the truth, but IBLP may try to charge libel anyway!

ETA. And I agree with Copper!

[Toothfairy]

I try to keep myself from posting about this evil ass man but I hope he goes down hard. I hope ATI and IBLP is shutdown. He's disgusting as well as the people who follow him.

[bal maiden]

The story is on Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/conservative-leader- ... 1536648157

[Ralar]

The story is on Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/conservative-leader- ... 1536648157

You beat me to posting!

Finally an article that really connects Got Hard to the Duggars. The headline: Conservative Leader With Ties to Duggar Family Faces Abuse Allegations. The article goes into some detail regarding the Duggar/Gothard connection, has a pic of JB and Gothard, and links to the Duggar's website.

[apple1]

You beat me to posting!

Finally an article that really connects Got Hard to the Duggars. The headline: Conservative Leader With Ties to Duggar Family Faces Abuse Allegations. The article goes into some detail regarding the Duggar/Gothard connection, has a pic of JB and Gothard, and links to the Duggar's website.

Absolutely agree.

The comments (as expected) - at least some of them - have me shaking my head. Duggars shouldn't have been mentioned? Homeschooling shouldn't have been mentioned?

Gah.

ETA Somebody should screeen cap that page of pics (I believe it included the Bates family at an IBLP conventions, also).

[bumblebee]

There are still a couple of people in the comments who object to the Duggars been mentioned at all, because its not their fault. Since it's never mentioned on the show most people just don't realise how deep into Gothardism they are, not just that they went to a conference once.

ETA:

The comments (as expected) - at least some of them - have me shaking my head. Duggars shouldn't have been mentioned? Homeschooling shouldn't have been mentioned?

This basically.

Trying to write an article about Gothard without mentioning homeschooling? Basically impossible.

[mrs]

Slightly off topic, someone left an interesting comment about Gothard being the Yellow King, from True Detective. :?

ETA: I wonder how Jim Bob feels about this type of press? I am curious about Josh's reaction too. Especially since Josh probably has access to unfiltered internet.

[MerryHappy]

I'm not real thrilled with the direction that RG is taking with this stuff.

They don't seem to grasp the idea that healing from the fundie life does not include religion for some of the survivors.

Tweets like these are not helping.

#RGDayOfPrayer: Pray for those who have left the faith as a result of their experiences at #iblp, that they would discover the real gospel.

https://twitter.com/recovergrace/status ... 6035237888

RG-we get it. We have seen the "Real Gospel" and found it lacking. We get that you need it. We don't. Stop with the patronizing BS.

[Ampak]

Purely speculation but, I wonder if Susanna Keller was ever victimized by Gothard or saw something at HQ that made her leave. There has to be tens if not hundreds of more victims. I would love to hear what TLC thinks of the Duggar-Gothard connection ESPECIALLY with all this breaking right when a book is released and a new season starting.

[ncb]

This will teach Steve Maxwell to go whoring himself out to JB for book sales!

[Rainytown]

I can only hope this throws a huge monkey wrench into TLC's plans for the new season and the Duggars' attempts to distract from the news by yet another "confession" by Michelle. I don't think it was any accident that she announced last weekend she was allegedly "bulimic" in high school. Didn't the Gothard story break in somewhat mainstream press last week? If she can torpedo her daughters' book as well, it's a win for her, isn't it?

I am crossing my fingers the story goes viral via Jezebel readers and hoping all (allegedly) molested or sexually harassed by this man will know they deserve an apology at the least. THEY DID NOTHING WRONG.

[Ampak]

I can only hope this throws a huge monkey wrench into TLC's plans for the new season and the Duggars' attempts to distract from the news by yet another "confession" by Michelle. I don't think it was any accident that she announced last weekend she was allegedly "bulimic" in high school. Didn't the Gothard story break in somewhat mainstream press last week? If she can torpedo her daughters' book as well, it's a win for her, isn't it?

I am crossing my fingers the story goes viral via Jezebel readers and hoping all (allegedly) molested or sexually harassed by this man will know they deserve an apology at the least. THEY DID NOTHING WRONG.

It may have been released last weekend online but, I reviewed Growing Up Duggar a few months ago and she mentions it in the book. So it was technically put out there way prior to all this.

[Guest]

Purely speculation but, I wonder if Susanna Keller was ever victimized by Gothard or saw something at HQ that made her leave. There has to be tens if not hundreds of more victims. I would love to hear what TLC thinks of the Duggar-Gothard connection ESPECIALLY with all this breaking right when a book is released and a new season starting.

I doubt Suze even made it to HQ. She was pretty young when she left, I believe she was about 18 when they shipped her off to live with Anna, then Rebekah. I think she's about 22 now. She always seemed to have a more worldly attitude though. If you watch the wedding episodes early in the show, it's easy to pick out that she just wasn't fitting in.

[bionicmlle]

Made it to Radar today, and the article features Doug Phillips is a Tool, too! http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... try-leave/

[HereticHick]

The Big Sandy, Texas ATI Camp that the Duggars and Bates always attend is April 22-25: ati.iblp.org/ati/events/regionalconferences/

Won't the adults have a LOT to talk about around the campfire this year!!!

I bet TLC will NOT film the Duggars attending.

[ncb]

Sorry for the cross post but, I just sent this to Steve Maxwell in reference to JB endorsing their latest self-published book. I am sure it won't garner a reply and no, I don't respect his "integrity", that was an ego stroke just for good measure. Does Anyone know if the Maxwells have ever been associated with Gothard? Seems like Steve could never share power with someone like him!

"I must say that while I disagree with you on many things, I have always respected your integrity and “practicing what you preach.†However, I am sad to see that you have decided to endorse, and be endorsed by, the Duggar family. They have a television show on a network with shows that even many of us liberals find offensive and morally bankrupt and, as you may have seen, they have been intimately connected with a man who is a known molester and sexual harasser- even letting their daughters spend unchaperoned time with him. I am sure you need to sell books, but I urge you to re-think who you decide to ally yourself with. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

[Palimpsest]

Made it to Radar today, and the article features Doug Phillips is a Tool, too! http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... try-leave/

This is hysterically funny! Radar got IBLP/ATI/Gothard and Doug the Tool and Duggars all in one story!

Forget the Washington Post, forget FOX news, forget HuffPuff!

Radar Online has the story and it is about to go viral - with the usual Radar scandal mongering and inaccuracies!

Oh, dear doG!

This is probably the first and last time I will ever say - Go Radar! Follow this story! :dance: :clap:

[SamuraiKatz]

Sorry for the cross post but, I just sent this to Steve Maxwell in reference to JB endorsing their latest self-published book. I am sure it won't garner a reply and no, I don't respect his "integrity", that was an ego stroke just for good measure. Does Anyone know if the Maxwells have ever been associated with Gothard? Seems like Steve could never share power with someone like him!

"I must say that while I disagree with you on many things, I have always respected your integrity and “practicing what you preach.†However, I am sad to see that you have decided to endorse, and be endorsed by, the Duggar family. They have a television show on a network with shows that even many of us liberals find offensive and morally bankrupt and, as you may have seen, they have been intimately connected with a man who is a known molester and sexual harasser- even letting their daughters spend unchaperoned time with him. I am sure you need to sell books, but I urge you to re-think who you decide to ally yourself with. http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

I believe the connection between the Duggars and Maxwells may be S.M. Davis.

titus2.com/preparing-sons.html Davis reviews Steve Maxwell's book

embassyinstitute.org/speaker/sm-davis SM Davis has lectures on Embassy Institute

duggarfamily.com Scroll down to bottom of page. Listed under resources right in the middle of the top row.