Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[lemonhead]

I think the general reason I find it somewhat snark-worthy is that their hair ISN"T curly--they perm it.

(which...I get. I grew up fundie lite-ish in the 80's. I permed [i shouldn't have--I never pulled it off] and it's taken me a long time to embrace the hair I have--instead of the hair I wanted. But I want to go throughout the world and convince people to do what their hair does WELL as their default, I say with my fundie-looking stick straight long hair :lol: )

They PERM it?? I guess I assumed it was natural since I read somewhere that Michelle's was naturally curly. Well, that does put a different spin on it. Holy shit, no way would I voluntarily have long curly hair. That is, in finest fundie fashion, fucking nuts.

Mea culpa on that one :embarrassed:

[Cleopatra7]

I think the general reason I find it somewhat snark-worthy is that their hair ISN"T curly--they perm it.

(which...I get. I grew up fundie lite-ish in the 80's. I permed [i shouldn't have--I never pulled it off] and it's taken me a long time to embrace the hair I have--instead of the hair I wanted. But I want to go throughout the world and convince people to do what their hair does WELL as their default, I say with my fundie-looking stick straight long hair :lol: )

My problem with the crunchy curls isn't the style as such, but the fact that all of the girls/young women in this cult feel a need to get this one style because daddy/Gothard/Jesus likes it. It's like how all the females in the FDLS have to wear the exact same prairie dress and 19th century pioneer woman updo. I don't think they wear it because it's the style in their particular sub-culture, they wear it because some male authority on high has deemed that this hairstyle is the most "biblical." There's no room for individuality at all, even on the smallest matters.

[FJismyheadship]

Jessa is the only one with naturally curly hair. Well, her and Josie.

[GeoBQn]

They PERM it?? I guess I assumed it was natural since I read somewhere that Michelle's was naturally curly. Well, that does put a different spin on it. Holy shit, no way would I voluntarily have long curly hair. That is, in finest fundie fashion, fucking nuts.

Mea culpa on that one :embarrassed:

There was an episode where they were talking about the ways they save money, and a graphic came up showing how much the J'slaves saved by doing home perms instead of going to the salon. I thought, "They could save even more money by not doing the awful perms any more."

[dawbs]

*snip*

They PERM it?? I guess I assumed it was natural since I read somewhere that Michelle's was naturally curly. Well, that does put a different spin on it. Holy shit, no way would I voluntarily have long curly hair. That is, in finest fundie fashion, fucking nuts.

Mea culpa on that one :embarrassed:

I know, if you're going to subject yourself to PITA hair, why would you choose THAT PITA hair to subject yourself to?

(I say as someone who subjected myself ot it ..take me back in time to when I was 15, in the early 90's and I had something that more than moderately resembling Duggar hair. )

Makes sense to me to assume it's naturaly, why would anyone want to do that? all the downsides of long hair AND curly hair with none of the upsides, IMO

[Hane]

I read something very recently saying he suggested you should straighten or perm in order to get the soft curls.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... t-ati.html

Yes, THIS. I'm not all that much younger than Gothard, so I know what he meant by favoring wavy hair over curly. Maybe his legions of younger followers don't understand what he meant by "wavy"?

[FloraDoraDolly]

Jessa is the only one with naturally curly hair. Well, her and Josie.

And Jeremiah. About a year or two ago, he grew his hair a little longer than what we usually see from the Duggar boys and it was curly.

[amyand4]

I was looking at the board of directors and I was wondering how I could reach them, such as this Dr Boring without going through ATI directly. I googled him and a cute facebook guy came up that was definitely not him, and then his phone number which I am too chicken too call. Anyone have any secret contacts?

[karismanic]

About the curly perms...

I had many childhood fundie acquaintances. Their churches taught any cutting or trimming of women's hair was forbidden, so many resorted to perms to disguise split ends and to shorten the overall length. Otherwise, their hair reached beyond the buttocks if not in an up-do.

[Palimpsest]

I was looking at the board of directors and I was wondering how I could reach them, such as this Dr Boring without going through ATI directly. I googled him and a cute facebook guy came up that was definitely not him, and then his phone number which I am too chicken too call. Anyone have any secret contacts?

I can't find an email addy, but his snailmail is here:

http://www.healthgrades.com/physician/d ... ent_anchor

Dear doG, if my name were Billy Boring I'd change it by deed poll. Even William or Will Boring would be better!

[PennySycamore]

This stores been picked up by Daily Kos now:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/0 ... hild-abuse

The diarist, Christian Dem in NC, is good about reporting the abuses of fundamentalism.

[thoughtful]

Dear doG, if my name were Billy Boring I'd change it by deed poll. Even William or Will Boring would be better!

But what if his middle initial is B? :D

[Lillybee]

I am glad that this is being reported on but on the other hand, it is mainly by liberal sites. I am not holding my breath for Fox News to pick it up.

[sophrosyne]

Kelly Bates posted in a comment in the Phillipines 2 section of the Bates family blog that she'd been out of town--with Gil at an emergency IBLP board meeting, I wonder?

[scc12]

Yes from a biblical standpoint,I thnk Hebrew women all wore hair coverings in the form of a scarf or cloth.

I get the feeling a short,straight cut would be too mod for fundies...they would associate it with working women.Think of Mary Tyler Moore in the 70's..hard core conservatives had a fit over such shows...how dare a woman have mod,short straight hair and work hard at her career,without a man in the pic!

[Chicken bones]

But what if his middle initial is B? :D

If my research is correct, his middle initial is more appropriate to the homeskool crowd: Billy R Boring.

[thoughtful]

If my research is correct, his middle initial is more appropriate to the homeskool crowd: Billy R Boring.

:lol:

I R seeing what U did there.

[miffy]

If my research is correct, his middle initial is more appropriate to the homeskool crowd: Billy R Boring.

Awesum!!!

[Justme]

Yes from a biblical standpoint,I thnk Hebrew women all wore hair coverings in the form of a scarf or cloth.

I get the feeling a short,straight cut would be too mod for fundies...they would associate it with working women.Think of Mary Tyler Moore in the 70's..hard core conservatives had a fit over such shows...how dare a woman have mod,short straight hair and work hard at her career,without a man in the pic!

So, why don't the men where their hair long, like in the bible? Why don't men wear robes and long skirts, like in the bible? Male short hair and neckties are a "modern" fashion.

[16strong]

So, why don't the men where their hair long, like in the bible? Why don't men wear robes and long skirts, like in the bible? Male short hair and neckties are a "modern" fashion.

The women don't wear headcoverings, either. Unless you count the seven sisters. There are no biblical mandates for the way they dress. The bible doesn't say "Thou shalt wear jean skirts and avoid the coloring, cutting and straightening of thine hair. Perms are acceptable. Flip-flops are preferred." At least, not that I know of. It's all just blanket rules put out by pervy old men to control women to their liking. I think there are a few general verses that talk about modest clothing and MAYBE a bit about hair and femininity, but mostly, fundies twist the verses for their own purposes.

[scc12]

So, why don't the men where their hair long, like in the bible? Why don't men wear robes and long skirts, like in the bible? Male short hair and neckties are a "modern" fashion.

Yes,they should,shouldn't they! let's put JB and Josh in a robe w some Jesus sandals.And they can only wear a loin cloth underneath.Stop cutting that hair and shaving...shape up,guys! You're not looking very biblical these days! That goes for Goth,too.I would love to see that! LOL.

[scc12]

The women don't wear headcoverings, either. Unless you count the seven sisters. There are no biblical mandates for the way they dress. The bible doesn't say "Thou shalt wear jean skirts and avoid the coloring, cutting and straightening of thine hair. Perms are acceptable. Flip-flops are preferred." At least, not that I know of. It's all just blanket rules put out by pervy old men to control women to their liking. I think there are a few general verses that talk about modest clothing and MAYBE a bit about hair and femininity, but mostly, fundies twist the verses for their own purposes.

I'm sure there is something about not wearing 2 kinds of fibers together.

"Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19

and:

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27

[August]

I always assumed permed curly hair was easier to manage than real curly hair. Otherwise why would anyone have it done twice?

I think the reason this story isn't so sensational to most people is that for the normal world sexual harrasment is a lesser crime than rape. Unless you know about the dogma of ATI you don't understand that for him and for these women it is as bad as rape.

And Jeremiah. About a year or two ago, he grew his hair a little longer than what we usually see from the Duggar boys and it was curly.

I like Jeremiah, I think he has a nice personality. If he decides to explore the world when he comes of age, I'd be his surrogate aunt and help him navigate all the things he's never been taught to handle.

[FlorenceHamilton]

The women don't wear headcoverings, either. Unless you count the seven sisters. There are no biblical mandates for the way they dress. The bible doesn't say "Thou shalt wear jean skirts and avoid the coloring, cutting and straightening of thine hair. Perms are acceptable. Flip-flops are preferred." At least, not that I know of. It's all just blanket rules put out by pervy old men to control women to their liking. I think there are a few general verses that talk about modest clothing and MAYBE a bit about hair and femininity, but mostly, fundies twist the verses for their own purposes.

Hey, do you think the flip flop thing is becauseof ole Bill G's foot fetish?

[Ralar]

The women don't wear headcoverings, either. Unless you count the seven sisters. There are no biblical mandates for the way they dress. The bible doesn't say "Thou shalt wear jean skirts and avoid the coloring, cutting and straightening of thine hair. Perms are acceptable. Flip-flops are preferred." At least, not that I know of. It's all just blanket rules put out by pervy old men to control women to their liking. I think there are a few general verses that talk about modest clothing and MAYBE a bit about hair and femininity, but mostly, fundies twist the verses for their own purposes.

The Bible presents hair as an ornament, enhancing the appearance of a woman. The attraction of a woman's hair is poetically expressed in the Song of Songs: 'Your hair is like a flock of goats from Gilead' (Song 6:5). However, hair may have been covered in biblical times, since there is some evidence that the unmarried girl, like her married counterpart, may have covered her hair. The Song of Songs reads: 'Your eyes are like doves behind your veil' (Song 4:1). The verse indicates that the maiden kept a veil over her hair, even though she appears to be unmarried. Similarly, the betrothed Rebecca demurely covers herself upon first sight of her intended husband (Gen 24:65). Because the evidence is sparse, we do not know precisely if, or how this custom of hair covering was observed.

With regards to hair, the Bible seems to indicate that cutting a woman's hair was a way to make a woman unattractive. The sole place in the Bible depicting a woman's hair being cut is in the laws of the captive woman (Deut 21:12). After a period of one month, during which time she was permitted to mourn her family, the captor might then claim her for his wife. The fact that her hair was shaved at the beginning of her captivity, whether as a sign of her subjugation or as a part of her mourning, may also indicate to what extent hair was considered an adornment to women. Some scholars have suggested that cutting her hair made the captive less attractive to her captor, perhaps even with the intent that over the course of the month his ardor would cool and he would eventually let her go.

This practice of cutting a woman's hair, which only pertained to captives during biblical times, later developed into a cultural distinctive for some Jewish women. The practice of shaving a woman's hair upon marriage, while not directly influenced by this biblical account, became prevalent in central Europe and especially Hungary in the early modern period. Under the influence no doubt of the dominant rabbinical scholar and traditionalist, Hatam Sofer (1762-1839), Jewish law required a woman to cut her hair after she wed. This shows that a fringe biblical practice that only pertained to foreign women was eventually converted into a normative religious ritual that pertained to observant Jewish women. What the Bible imposed as a sign of both subjugation and mourning was transformed by history thousands of years later into an expression of female immodesty Although many rabbis inveighed against the practice of cutting one's hair after marriage, this ritual nevertheless took hold in a number of communities.

The verse: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard" (Leviticus 19:27) is understood by the talmudic rabbis not to mean that it is wrong for a man to be cleanshaven, but only that facial hair must not be removed with a razor.

The standard code of Jewish law, the [16th-century work by Rabbi Yosef Karo,] Shulhan Arukh (Yoreh De'ah, 181:10) rules that it is permitted to remove all facial hair with scissors even when this is done as closely as if with a razor. On the basis of this, many Orthodox Jews shave with an electric razor on the grounds that technically this machine, with its two blades, is not to be treated as a razor.

The men clearly should have beards, or use an electric razor. But, since they are speshul and do everything to the extreme, electric razors would certainly be a no-no.