Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[tropaka]

I am thinking that Gothard and crew are hoping that if he just resigns (even though he quoted some scripture he's supposed to be thinking about in all of this) it will go away. Sorry, Gothard prescribed a way of dress for women/girls that was pretty much a model of his sexual preferences. Not Biblical, totally Sexual.

Oh, and David's signature, totally no-school.

[lemonhead]

From religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/:

"[David] Waller said the two institutes will continue under interim leadership, including upcoming conferences in Nashville and Sacramento under ATI president Chris Hogan."

Is this sentence missing a comma, or is this Chris Hogan guy taking over the reins of IBLP as well as ATI? I don't know anything about Hogan. Any insight, FJers?

[Elinor]

From religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/:

"[David] Waller said the two institutes will continue under interim leadership, including upcoming conferences in Nashville and Sacramento under ATI president Chris Hogan."

Is this sentence missing a comma, or is this Chris Hogan guy taking over the reins of IBLP as well as ATI? I don't know anything about Hogan. Any insight, FJers?

My prediction was that Chris Hogan would take over if BG stepped down. His website is noblecall.org

[16strong]

Davey's signature IS a little too pristine. Looks like it was copied straight from a cursive chart...by a girl.

[marmalade]

From religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/:

"[David] Waller said the two institutes will continue under interim leadership, including upcoming conferences in Nashville and Sacramento under ATI president Chris Hogan."

Is this sentence missing a comma, or is this Chris Hogan guy taking over the reins of IBLP as well as ATI? I don't know anything about Hogan. Any insight, FJers?

The way I read Davey's letter was that Hogan would take over (interim?) presidency of ATI so that the conferences could go on (have to keep the $$$ rolling in). As I understood the IBLP situation, it sounds like they are going to the board to appoint someone (else? was not clear).

So yeah, pretty vague.

[scc12]

Glad to hear it.Wow...the board sure is distancing themselves from this,per using David to announce.Reminds me of the Duggars using Amy to release controversial pics.(Jubilee and guns).Just use someone else and distance yourself from this,is the method they employ.

[scc12]

RG just tweeted this:

Pray that #iblp #ati would recover the concept of grace, and if God so desires, that the ministry would recover, by grace

:pull-hair:

There is no way to "recover" an abusive cult and make it okay. Even without Bill Gothard the whole mess would be fucked up. There is nothing redeemable about IBLP or ATI. I would like to watch it go down in flames, but I would be okay with it just quietly dismantling. But my worst fear is that they will shuffle Gothard off into a dark corner, replace him with somebody younger and more likable and it the ministry will continue.

me, too.I'd like to see the girls all throw their frumpers into the nearest campfire! And get some hair straightener while they're at it. :)

[Nobodysdoormat]

I'd like to see the girls all throw their frumpers into the nearest campfire! And get some hair straightener while they're at it. :)

[bal maiden]

Apparently IBLP was hemorrhaging cash, interesting...

The allegations against Gothard dovetail with financial woes. In recent years, IBLP’s net revenue has dropped significantly, and the ministry is losing money. Between 2009 and 2012, it lost $8.6 million. Its net assets dropped from $92 million in 2010 to $81 million in 2012. It held 504 seminars in 2010, but that number dropped to fewer than 50 in 2012.

from religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/

[16strong]

Apparently IBLP was hemorrhaging cash, interesting...

from religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/

Whoah. 504-50? That's what, a 90% reduction, in two years? :o Hemorrhaging is an understatement. If this is true for ATI, no wonder Stevus has been in everyone's faces with his books lately. The same probably holds true for him. Could it be that extremism is falling out of fashion despite the high quantity of fundie leg-humpers?

[Arete]

Apparently IBLP was hemorrhaging cash, interesting...

from religionnews.com/2014/03/06/conservative-leader-bill-gothard-resigned-following-abuse-allegations/

That cash loss correlates with establishment of the Recovering Grace website. Hard to say if this correlation is also causation, but it certainly can't be dismissed as a factor.

I think that whatever shortcomings the RG approach has, it has dealt a serious blow to Gothard's organization. This stuff is now a permanent part of The Internet Is Forever. They are going to have a lot harder a time growing the organization with new recruits and new money. It isn't as satisfying as watching that shifty pervert go to jail where he belongs, but I'll take his organization dying from a thousand little cuts over time.

[sparrow]

Yeah, and I'm wondering if talking about it the way they do... all " let's pray and forgive" has made it possible for their message to be heard by actual fundy families. Where if they'd taken the approach we feel is more than called for, they'd just have been preaching to the choir.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

ATI will probably not survive this. It is so dependent on Bill Gothard that nobody else will do, theres also the financial difficulties. Bye bye ATI. It will go the way of Vision Forum.

[formergothardite]

I'm skeptical he is giving up any real power. I bet he will handpick the guy who follows him and he will always be in the background pulling all the strings. He wants to stay in control of the situation and this is it. I wouldn't be surprised if all pretense of an investigation is dropped and since RG is already saying that they want the ministry to recover he will most likely try and convince them to not publish anymore stories of his abuse so that the "recovery" process will start. They already gave him the nice out so that he can claim that he claim that he just didn't realize that he hurt people. He can say "I'm sorry I hurt you unintentionally." without ever admitting that he really did anything wrong.

[nelliebelle1197]

It also depends on whether what Gothard was doing was Sexual Harassment of women in the workplace or Sexual Abuse of under-aged girls. It seems he probably is guilty of both, if the story of his fondling 15 year olds is correct.

Sexual harassment is a civil not criminal offence (it comes under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act) with a very short period (days not years) of time when a complaint can be filed. No arrest and no jail time, just monetary compensation for any damages proven.

Sexual Abuse of Minors has no statute of limitations, however, and would be a criminal charge filed by the state with victims as witnesses.

This is not true. Earlier in this thread I quoted the Illinois statute.

[Palimpsest]

I misread the Pecan's letter last night. It was past my bedtime. :?

So do I have this right? Gothard has stepped down from his leadership position, at least for the moment, to contemplate his navel. Chris Hogan of Noble Call is taking over ATI only on a temporary basis and the Board is going to name new leaders of ATI and ILBP sometime in the future. Pecan is acting as Press Secretary for the Board only.

There is no mention of an apology from Gothard, and any investigation of his sins and crimes is probably at an end because he has stepped down. But he could come back, theoretically, after all this has been swept under the rug.

I'm not feeling as cheerful as I was last night.

Looking at the Noblecall.org website - thanks Elinor for the link I'd never heard of him before.

Hogan bears an amazing resemblance to a hamster. Or a Kennedy. He has the 5 Fundamentals of Fundamentalism down pat. His quiver has 10 arrows in it and he specializes in relationships and conferences. He uses the word Noble so many times that it loses all meaning. The word Strong also suffers this fate. "Chris works with men because when men are strong, families become strong, when families are strong, churches become strong, when churches are strong, the nation becomes strong." Okeydokey.

Chris Hogan also doesn't believe in paying for hotel rooms when he can grift a bed for the night! "Chris has stayed in over 90 homes in 18 countries throughout his travels." Odd thing to boast about! He's also pals with the Duggars and goes on Mission trips with them.

ETA corrected com to org

[Palimpsest]

This is not true. Earlier in this thread I quoted the Illinois statute.

You are quite right about Illinois and I must have missed your earlier post. Damn. This is something that should be changed at the Federal level. :x

[Arete]

The thing is, this cannot be swept under the rug, even if Gothard thinks it can. Any potential recruit is just a Google search away from hours of reading about this scandal, a lot of which reference back to the 80s scandal. He may be cynically designing his comeback, but information is power, and he has lost control of the presentation of information. He has also lost the political anonymity that he so carefully cultivated. He is no longer able to hide in plain site.

His true believers and various hangers on like the Duggars and the Bateses were unlikely to have abandoned ATI. It's the supply of new recruits that has been compromised.

[Becket70]

The thing is, this cannot be swept under the rug, even if Gothard thinks it can. Any potential recruit is just a Google search away from hours of reading about this scandal, a lot of which reference back to the 80s scandal. He may be cynically designing his comeback, but information is power, and he has lost control of the presentation of information. He has also lost the political anonymity that he so carefully cultivated. He is no longer able to hide in plain site.

His true believers and various hangers on like the Duggars and the Bateses were unlikely to have abandoned ATI. It's the supply of new recruits that has been compromised.

As much as I wish it to be true that new recruits may be more difficult to come by, it also seems there is a never-ending supply of gullible people who are unable or unwilling to think critically. Organizations like this depend on people who go all in and never question. If this organization fails, another one will pop up. It's a con job with a constant supply of marks.

[pega127]

I'd be interested to know how the Duggars and Bateses are feeling about Bill. Do Erin and Chad regret including him in their wedding with a special birthday cake? Or, is everyone just waiting to see a verdict? It's got to be tough for them.

[scc12]

Whoah. 504-50? That's what, a 90% reduction, in two years? :o Hemorrhaging is an understatement. If this is true for ATI, no wonder Stevus has been in everyone's faces with his books lately. The same probably holds true for him. Could it be that extremism is falling out of fashion despite the high quantity of fundie leg-humpers?

Indeed,esp. that last sentence.The Duggars and their ilk just aren't able to push this agenda on very many ppl,like they think they can.

I wonder what they'll do,if and when ati goes under.Start their own cult? will the D's and Bates be at the helm of it?They'll never admit it was a mistake to follow this,and will likely keep up w the same traditions of style and dress (amongst all the other beliefs).Courting and popping out babies mindlessly for starters.

[mastercleaner]

Someone in the comments on RG said that he has lawyered up.

If that's true there may be more to this. More recent victims. Maybe someone spoke up after he was placed on leave.

[apple1]

It remains to be seen where all of this goes.

RG has a very loooooooooong new page up, in which they lay out excruciating detail about the 1980 mess.

It has yet to be seen whether today's mess will follow the 1980 pattern. At any rate, there is a ton of information in today's RG post. One can only hope that between the fact that the internet makes cover up more difficult, and Gothard is 80 years old, this will be the end of IBLP and all its associated entities.

Several commenters on the page seem to see the Gothard "resignation" letter as just more cover up.

One more comment: There is rumor that David Gibbs and his CLA have been retained. Gibbs has a long history of protecting the Gothard organization, and he is apparently already scheduled as a speaker at an upcoming conference. Be assured that this has nothing to do with the welfare of victims. Gibbs exists to protect churches and religious organizations from taking responsibility and having liability for their wrongdoings and cover ups. Nuff sed.

[RosyDaisy]

What if what they pray for comes true? He makes a statement admitting he did these things, that he didn't realize that he was hurting people, but now he see how much hurt he caused and he is sorry. Then what? We are all just supposed to hug it out and go on our merry way like he didn't spend decades destroying lives?

I believe in forgiveness. But that doesn't mean that I think he should get away with a slap on the wrist. He should be punished. Forgiveness DOES NOT = no punishment. One way or another Gothard will get what he deserves.

[Palimpsest]

It remains to be seen where all of this goes.

RG has a very loooooooooong new page up, in which they lay out excruciating detail about the 1980 mess.

It has yet to be seen whether today's mess will follow the 1980 pattern. At any rate, there is a ton of information in today's RG post. One can only hope that between the fact that the internet makes cover up more difficult, and Gothard is 80 years old, this will be the end of IBLP and all its associated entities.

Several commenters on the page seem to see the Gothard "resignation" letter as just more cover up.

One more comment: There is rumor that David Gibbs and his CLA have been retained. Gibbs has a long history of protecting the Gothard organization, and he is apparently already scheduled as a speaker at an upcoming conference. Be assured that this has nothing to do with the welfare of victims. Gibbs exists to protect churches and religious organizations from taking responsibility and having liability for their wrongdoings and cover ups. Nuff sed.

Scorched Earth Gibbs, Esq. himself. Yes, I saw that rumor on RG the other day. It seems likely, but I'd be very interested to have that confirmed. I'm only about half way through RG's latest opus, loooooooooong is right, and keep getting interrupted.