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Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge


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I just got so over excited I can't even focus enough to read the article. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't mean to be demanding or anything, but if any serious drama starts unravelling online whilst the sun is up in the USA can somebody quote this post so I get a tapatalk notification & don't miss out. :shifty:

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We can only hope. But history proves another leader will just take his place because the gullible are always gullible and always are willing to pay.

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We can only hope. But history proves another leader will just take his place because the gullible are always gullible and always are willing to pay.

Unless it all collapses in a messy power struggle.

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There's been sex scandals at IBLP before and the results were less than breathtaking. Well, they were breathtaking in that he still retained power and his flock still paid up. *imagine the bashing head on brick wall smilie inserted here*

In the other hand, this is the age of the interwebz...

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Somehow Gothard manages to weather sex scandals just fine. It really is a cult mindset with his followers. I don't think it will cause ATI to fall apart, but if the mainstream media picks this up along with the connection to the Duggars and Bates it could be all sorts of awesome. We could see what Jim Bob loves more TLC money or Gothard. I'm thinking money will win and he will act all shocked that these things are going on when you know he has to know about them right now. Gil, I think will stay in the fold and continue turning a blind eye to everything Gothard does.

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There's been sex scandals at IBLP before and the results were less than breathtaking. Well, they were breathtaking in that he still retained power and his flock still paid up. *imagine the bashing head on brick wall smilie inserted here*

In the other hand, this is the age of the interwebz...

Too bad Jill or Michelle won't give up the password to the unfettered web; Jim Bob will never know.

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Yay, I really really hope so. Justice needs to be done, he has been getting away with it for too long.

After VF being bought down by a sex scandal, ATI being bought down by an even bigger one might really shake up the fundies. Hopefully it will make at least some of them wary of cults and legalism and start to examine their own beliefs.

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In fact, we have learned that the IBLP Board of Directors has on more than one occasion addressed this behavior with Bill Gothard, but to no lasting avail.

I find this very chilling. The higher ups are aware of what's going on, but won't do anything more than talking with him to stop it.

Something else to think about? Gil Bates is on the Board of Directors.

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I find this very chilling. The higher ups are aware of what's going on, but won't do anything more than talking with him to stop it.

Something else to think about? Gil Bates is on the Board of Directors.

People kid themselves when they think that the Bates parents are better than the Duggar parents. It is very telling that despite having far more money and profile, JB is not a part of the Board Of Directors, but Gil does sit on the board.

Gil is a shiftless, lazy man who brought up his family in squalor. JB is a shiftless conman, but there is evidence he has actually worked in his life. I fear Gil was chosen because he is a pliant, true believer in addition to being lazy as fuck. Those types easily turn a blind eye to maintain unearned status.

Yeah, I don't think much of Gil or his character, why do you ask? ;)

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It is so heartbreaking to think about the 34+ (young?) women he allegedly abused, according to Recovering Grace.

I posted about this topic on the Sacred Grooming thread. I will be praying for everyone involved.

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Its sickening that these higher ups who covered it up likely have kids themselves. We know Gil Bates has daughters just the right age for him, and I am sure he isn't the only one who have teen/young adult daughters, or daughters who will one day be that age, or even have granddaughters, sisters, cousins, nieces....or are at least repulsed by the idea of an old man who likes girls young enough to be his granddaughter, especially that we know some of them are underage. Which should be everyone. Why are they turning a blind eye to this and how can they live with themselves? I think if I was one of these people, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that he is molesting girls and nobody is doing anything. I don't think I could live with the guilt if I had let this go on, or was letting someone who does that have access to my kids and one of them got molested. Do they have no conscience?

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Agree that any scandal will not totally blow ATI apart, there will be cult followers that won't believe it and the world sees no lack of gullible people who will be willing to sign up down the line. Just with VF, there will be people who will leave but it won't go away entirely. And don't underestimate the willingness of an ATI big shot to take up reins a la Scott Brown.

Though hoping the connection between Duggars and ATI is revealed. Don't see this happening with the Bates as they are not as well known however, given Zach's campaign, any opponent may pick up on this during campaigning, that's the biggest risk I see for them. Back to the Duggars, now they could face a lot of flak and JB will in all likelihood will choose $$ over Gothard

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Hoping the whole Gothard thing does blow up, but I suspect it may be more of a whimper than a bang. I like to believe that, since the very large IBLP/ATI gatherings appear to be a thing of the past, that the organization is gradually failing. Not sure that is correct. AFAIK, they still have things like "Character First", "Character Cities", influence in places like police forces, etc. I'm sure they still have influence in churches in which the average member doesn't even know much of the teachng comes from Gothard, while the church retains its ordinary denominational name. A couple of my previous FJ posts below shed light on my interest in this organization.

I, however, hope/wish it does blow wide open. So very, very much harm has been done. Kudos to Recovering Grace for fighting this fight.

(4/27/12 on FJ)

There is history of various "moral issues" with Gothard going back to 1977. In 1977, there were board member resignations (resigned and/or forced to resign) over several issues.

The stories from girls/young women that he has brought to his facilities for various projects/roles being subject to his "indiscretions" span many years, and are far from isolated or exceptional.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how he continues to get away with this. And I cannot understand how parents of these girls allow him to get away with it. I realize that many of the girls have been intimidated/coerced/brainwashed into silence for years, but there are stories of those who did tell their parents. It seems like even the parents who believed their daughters just quietly left Gothardism.

It does appear that the huge attendances in years past at Gothard events are becoming a thing of the past. But Gothardism is still out there, and there is still influence. And this fact disturbs me more and more as time goes by.

(3/25/12)

I (myself, husband and kids) attended a mainline Christian denomination church for 5 years in which (we didn't know at the time) the pastor had gotten involved hook, line, and sinker in Gothardism. It was all quite cleverly hidden under other language (just like Gothardism doesn't reveal the depth of their teachings, or what they really believe, until people are very deeply committed). The name Gothard was never mentioned. "Home school convention" was the most common euphemism. "Character programs" occasionally.

It ended for us quite painfully. Without going in to specifics, husband and I were pretty much informed that we were no longer welcome there unless we chose to toe their line (we didn't). They manipulated and hung on to my 17 and 19 year old kids for an additional 4 months or so before we got them out (the kids were essentially adults and had driver's licenses and the older one had a car), telling them how awful their parents were.

There was a lot of pain and family dynamic that I was very upset about at the time.

Hindsight is 20/20, and now we are all relieved. (It's obvious now that it was going to end that way, because none of us have the personality or belief system to buy into the spiel). It's distressing (and revealing) that this was hidden in a mainline Christian church.

Today, about 11 years later, that church still exists, but there are hardly any members except the pastor's relatives. Most of the other (and there were many, many) members are gone in manner similar to us.

Only after we were out of that church, and I started researching Gothard, did I find out the extent of Gothard's teachings.

(I continue to self-identify as a mainline, not fundy, Christian).

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Interesting that he cut off communication with Recovering Grace when they asked direct questions about his sexual involvement with women. I bet he couldn't figure out a way to give a non-answer to that.

He is very careful in his letters to make sure that he admits no wrong doing.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/ ... with-bill/

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If this scandal does blow open, I suspect what will happen will be similar to what happened when Warren Jeffs of the FLDS was sent to prison; the followers will continue as if nothing happened, even if the leader is missing. The true believers like the Duggars and the Bates will just keep living their lives the way they always have, albeit without sending the kids to Journey to the Heart or ALERT. They will use Gothard's troubles as more evidence of how Christians are being persecuted, and refuse to believe any of the allegations. If Gothard goes down, hopefully it will mean that no other families get roped into this nonsense, but I doubt that much will change for the families we follow here.

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If this scandal does blow open, I suspect what will happen will be similar to what happened when Warren Jeffs of the FLDS was sent to prison; the followers will continue as if nothing happened, even if the leader is missing. The true believers like the Duggars and the Bates will just keep living their lives the way they always have, albeit without sending the kids to Journey to the Heart or ALERT. They will use Gothard's troubles as more evidence of how Christians are being persecuted, and refuse to believe any of the allegations. If Gothard goes down, hopefully it will mean that no other families get roped into this nonsense, but I doubt that much will change for the families we follow here.

Alfred shows what a true believer is reacting. This is just a bunch of bitter people trying to bring down God's man.

There is no doubt that there is a large number of people here who have various reasons to hate Bill Gothard. To see Him fall, all of us that appreciate him deal with the grief of his public humiliation, end of the ministry, would be seen as fulfillment of a lifelong dream . . . for many (not necessarily all). Now I see that what I suspect is the LA Times "archive" is about to be released, plus new information . . . Slowly, to inflict as much damage as possible.

so, we are still left with a man making a number of emotional attachments in the early days to willing, marriageable young women . . . Passions driving him to spend alone time with them "while working" way closer than would be appropriate. Things he would condemn in others. Yet without ever going over the boundary into sexual contact. Things that he resigned over back in the 80's with a confession of “defraudingâ€. When we are done we will be right back where we are today . . . Perhaps with shuttered doors, because an old man can't take it any more?

Those girls wanted it anyway and he never had any penis in vagina sex so it isn't bad. :angry-banghead:

. He is a shepherd, protecting a flock. People who trust him, and for whom his program, principles have formed a basis for their marriage and family. Satan may get some of them . . . he is always on the hunt. Does Jesus care? Oh, I know He cares.

He is just a wise and carring shepherd who wants to protect his followers. Anyone who questions him and leaves has been gotten by Satan.

Unless he lied - and I keep asking for comments - there are practical miracles associated with the ministry . . . Amazing financial miracles . . . Healing . . . Demonic manifestations that were healed . . . Stories we have all heard of a living God doing things only He can do.

IF any of that is true, God has singularly focused on IBLP. He is around

Oh, Alfred, he did lie. Over and over, but you won't see.

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On ATI's side, this will only result in victim blaming. The menfolk are just doing gods work, and the evil harlots are trying to divert them into evil.

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Jack Schaap is in a federal prison for less.

Since, clearly minors were transported across state lines, even across national borders, here's hoping the feds get involved. But I'm guessing the statute of limitations has long run out on the stories Recovering Grace has published. However, people like Gothard don't stop. Somebody needs to investigate the NOW.

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Something that kept coming to mind as I read Gothard's email responses is how adept he is at not admitting wrong, while carefully wording everything he says so as to seem as cooperative as possible. It jumped out at me as sociopathic behavior, as they are extremely skilled at this same thing. If Gothard is not a full blown sociopath, I would be surprised. At the very least he displays many textbook sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies.

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