The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2

[louisa05]

They want a fairy tale, someone who will magically meet all of their needs, make them perfectly happy, and never cause them any grief or annoyance.

This. That is definitely what my friend thinks is out there. She is also stuck in the "soul mate" thing--that there is one and only one right person for her and there will be rainbows and shooting stars and swelling background music the moment she meets him. And once she is married, nothing else will ever be hard again. I have had some hard things happening in my life and my family for a few years now...just endless trials. She recently informed me that I should not feel unhappy or stressed about any of it because I have a husband and thus my whole life is "blessed and happy".

[treehugger]

(This is not an attack.)

This common in the girls world. We get a person who has all the qualities but in the back of our mind, we think there is someone who is better than this. This is the flaw with modern dating. The one we are with is not good enough, so chase the 20% thinking that someone out there is better. Hopefully, Jessa is conscious of this flaw that is in every woman. There are no perfect men, but we find a person who is right for us and we can deal with whatever flaw that possess and still love them unconditionally.

:wtf: Girl's world? Flaw in every woman? Please.

Some of the pickiest people I know are men - to be more specific, all MRA and fundie men are WAY pickier than any girl I've ever known. Sure, some girls are picky. Most of the girls I know aren't picky enough. But, meet an MRA, and not only will you be judged on your character (as in, you must be submissive, quiet, smart, humble, educated, spineless, horny, modest, hot, perfect in every way) but you will also have to pass a list of physical characteristics a mile long. Are you a virgin, a size 0-2, tall but not too tall, is your ass the right shape, can you walk in 5 inch heels, what about the shape of your breasts, do you have perfect skin, is the hair on your arms too long, can you dress like a 50's pin-up girl, etc..... etc.... etc.....

[Minerva]

No psychologist needed. It is a common practice and can be observed in our community. Women or men will date or marry someone with the qualities they need but will think there has to be someone better. So, they leave them for someone "better."

I've heard of this happening, but I don't think most people do it, let alone all women. I've known of people who said "whoops, I found someone better!" and left their partner, but that's an incredibly douchy thing to do. I mean, you'd have to be pretty immature to think the perfect person's out there somewhere, but you'd have to be a piece of shit to end a perfectly good relationship just because someone seems better. You can't even know what someone's like until you've dated them.

I think you may be mistaking ending a relationship because you're not happy in it for ending a relationship because you're fickle and something shiny has caught your eye.

How is it a flaw of "modern dating" if people do it with marriage, too? BTW, I'm still curious where you heard this concept from.

[church_of_dog]

What exactly is "Modern dating"? My parents met in 1954 at college, (not a christian one). My grandparents met at a dance and dated... Even Laura Ingalls Wilder went out with Almanzo unescorted. How far are we going back?

:lol:

[formergothardite]

I've heard of this happening, but I don't think most people do it, let alone all women. I've known of people who said "whoops, I found someone better!" and left their partner, but that's an incredibly douchy thing to do. I mean, you'd have to be pretty immature to think the perfect person's out there somewhere, but you'd have to be a piece of shit to end a perfectly good relationship just because someone seems better. You can't even know what someone's like until you've dated them.

I think you may be mistaking ending a relationship because you're not happy in it for ending a relationship because you're fickle and something shiny has caught your eye.

How is it a flaw of "modern dating" if people do it with marriage, too? BTW, I'm still curious where you heard this concept from.

Probably the same place that she got the idea that women sacrifice a part of themselves if they pursue a guy instead of patiently waiting for a guy to come to her. :angry-banghead:

[freejugar]

I don't think so. Since Jessa's the first girl to marry, and the Duggars are realizing that a lot of people are hypercritical of them, they have to make the wedding perfect to show that Jessa loves this guy and wants to spend her life with him. They have to show that courtship and "waiting for Prince Charming" is perfect.

*groan* but a perfect wedding is boring! no singing? no legos talk?

[formergothardite]

*groan* but a perfect wedding is boring! no singing? no legos talk?

If there is a God there will be no Duggar singing or violin playing. :pray:

[sunshine]

So no one heard of the 80-20 rule?

[Minerva]

So no one heard of the 80-20 rule?

Never heard of it.

ETA Google says it's a statistical law that has applications in certain fields such as business and which is often misused.

[JenniferJuniper]

So no one heard of the 80-20 rule?

No. Please enlighten and provide a real world example.

[J'ean Skirt]

Plenty of liberal feminist women do it too. They either have a string of dates or a string of long term relationships, but they always end up rejecting the guy because they figure there's something better out there. Women (and men) like this don't view the opposite sex as human: they believe there must be one out there who will be exactly as attractive, charming, ambitious, wealthy, stylish, informed, intelligent, knowledgeable, etc. etc. etc. as they envisioned. They don't understand that there are some things you have to compromise on if you want a happy and successful long term relationship. They want it all and they end up with nothing.

Are you sure they're unhappy?

I mean, we're making a LOT of assumptions about "women" and "feminists" here which strike me as total BS.

Yes, there is a lot of cultural pressure to marry. But, y'know what? Some women don't feel that pressure. They're happy with their relationships, but are also happy when they end.

[singsingsing]

Are you sure they're unhappy?

I mean, we're making a LOT of assumptions about "women" and "feminists" here which strike me as total BS.

Yes, there is a lot of cultural pressure to marry. But, y'know what? Some women don't feel that pressure. They're happy with their relationships, but are also happy when they end.

Yes, I'm sure they're unhappy because the women I'm talking about are the ones who say, "I'm still single and I'm not happy about it." If you read what I wrote, I was clearly not talking about 'liberals' or 'feminists' in general... ;)

[TeaELSee]

Plenty of liberal feminist women do it too. They either have a string of dates or a string of long term relationships, but they always end up rejecting the guy because they figure there's something better out there. Women (and men) like this don't view the opposite sex as human: they believe there must be one out there who will be exactly as attractive, charming, ambitious, wealthy, stylish, informed, intelligent, knowledgeable, etc. etc. etc. as they envisioned. They don't understand that there are some things you have to compromise on if you want a happy and successful long term relationship. They want it all and they end up with nothing.

I am a "liberal feminist" and come from a long line of liberal feminists & I have no idea where you got your information. That is a very strange perception you have. :think: Stereotyping is unattractive and counter-productive.

[sunshine]

http://www.lovepanky.com/love-couch/swe ... ationships

http://www.relationshipstalk.com/this-w ... t-is-that/

I hope these link helps. :)

[singsingsing]

I am a "liberal feminist" and come from a long line of liberal feminists & I have no idea where you got your information. That is a very strange perception you have. :think: Stereotyping is unattractive and counter-productive.

Wait, what? Like I said to the person who posted about you, I was obviously not talking about liberal feminists in general. I don't know why you've jumped to that conclusion, or why you've assumed that I myself am not a liberal feminist. :? Unless you're suggesting that there are NO liberal feminists who do what I described, in which case we'll have to disagree - because stereotyping is, indeed, 'unattractive' (wow) and counter-productive.

[BravaAmica]

They want a fairy tale, someone who will magically meet all of their needs, make them perfectly happy, and never cause them any grief or annoyance.

Oh, god, that's not only unrealistic but it's incredibly lazy and selfish.

[Mela99]

Oh, god, that's not only unrealistic but it's incredibly lazy and selfish.

My fiance is the greatest man I've ever known, but he annoys the piss out of me just like every other human being.

People are flawed. We can love them in spite of it.

[TeaELSee]

Wait, what? Like I said to the person who posted about you, I was obviously not talking about liberal feminists in general. I don't know why you've jumped to that conclusion, or why you've assumed that I myself am not a liberal feminist. :? Unless you're suggesting that there are NO liberal feminists who do what I described, in which case we'll have to disagree - because stereotyping is, indeed, 'unattractive' (wow) and counter-productive.

Who are the collective they you are referring to? It reads like a broad stroke generalzation.

[AmericanRose]

I'm a fan of dating until you find the person who feels 'right' to you. But I never expected (or wanted to find, really - perfection bores me, and since I'm far from perfect, would probably intimidate me) perfection in anyone, male or female.

... and if you find someone and feel there must be someone better for you out there, that's not a flaw in anyone, man or woman. That just means that person isn't the right one for you.

[formergothardite]

http://www.lovepanky.com/love-couch/sweet-love/80-20-rule-in-relationships

http://www.relationshipstalk.com/this-w ... t-is-that/

I hope these link helps. :)

:lol: I can't tell if you are being serious with these links or not. It is like claiming all men like having donuts eaten off their dicks and then providing Cosmo articles as proof.

You still haven't defined what "modern dating" is. And how this supposed whatever it is you are talking about is a flaw in all women that they need to be aware of. You are going to have to provide some actual proof that all women have a flaw that makes them want to dump guys and pursue some imaginary perfect guy or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.

[singsingsing]

Who are the collective they you are referring to? It reads like a broad stroke generalzation.

I wasn't referring to any collective they. Saying that 'plenty of liberal feminist women' do something is the same as saying that 'plenty of white people are idiots', or 'plenty of Democrats like guns.' I was responding to the idea that the problem we're discussing is a problem amongst women who believe in traditional fairy tale love and waiting for prince charming, and my point was that there are [plenty of / some / a number of] liberal feminists who act the same. So once again, the 'group' I was referring to were liberal feminists who do X, not liberal feminists in general. I think you misread my post and took offence, which I'm sorry about, but at this point if I try to keep clarifying, I'm only going to end up repeating what I've already said.

[BravaAmica]

My fiance is the greatest man I've ever known, but he annoys the piss out of me just like every other human being.

People are flawed. We can love them in spite of it.

Exactly.

[formergothardite]

I'm a fan of dating until you find the person who feels 'right' to you. But I never expected (or wanted to find, really - perfection bores me, and since I'm far from perfect, would probably intimidate me) perfection in anyone, male or female.

... and if you find someone and feel there must be someone better for you out there, that's not a flaw in anyone, man or woman. That just means that person isn't the right one for you.

Exactly.

[J'ean Skirt]

Exactly.

I can't figure out what's wrong with waiting for someone rather than settling with someone you're not sure about.

HOW IS THIS A BAD THING?

And, if I decide not to settle; I am allowed to feel sad that I don't have someone special in my life. That's just human nature.

Even as I was sure I was making the right decision, I was also sure that I was just a leetle bit lonely and there is nothing wrong or unusual about acknowledging that.

[formergothardite]

I think settling for someone whose flaws you can't stand just because you feel like you have to would make a horrible marriage. I think it would end up with a lot of resentment.

With the Duggar style courtship they aren't going to be able to know what sort of guy they really want because they pretty much have to marry the first guy that courts them. Jess isn't going to know this guy well until she marries him. At least with the ebil "modern dating" people usually get to know each other pretty well. And yeah, it might end up that they break up, but that is better than marrying someone you have never even had a private conversation with.