The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2

[mausi]

don't bet on it it stops few men if they have any choice about it and a opportunity.

I feel a bit squicky talking about a teenage boys virginity status, but I'm going on the "young and very religious" side. Probably a reason why he wants to get married so young.

[sunshine]

Actually the photos were posted at the end of September so they were taken sometime before then. In fact I'd guess the "leaked" courting photos were taking around this same timeframe.

It looks like the whole duggar clan was there including grandma. I'm not up to date on big family rules but it seems odd that your whole 20+ person family(San TLC crew) felt the need to go to your boyfriends family reunion unless you are more then boyfriend/girlfriend and plan to soon be joined by marriage. I would have never attended something like that with a boyfriend especially with my whole family following. But what do I know, I'm a heathen who dated.

You never know. I mean in their idea of courtship....before you buy the farm you have to ensure that you can tolerate the animals.

[xReems]

Eh, it's typical for my family or my boyfriend's family to invite the other family over when it becomes serious. When my future sister-in-law was moving, her mom through a "going away" party and invited my parents and sister to it. Then again, we have been together for 5 1/2 years and the parents did not officially meet until early January.

It could be things are looking serious for Jessa and Ben so his family must have invited the Duggar clan over as well. That or because the family are huge fans of the show, they felt the need to invite them. Who knows.

Jessa does look beautiful and she does look a bit awkward in the pictures but I can't blame her. She's been taught that having boy-girl friendships can be bad since it can stir up "undesirable thoughts" and then to go having a boy's arm around you? Yeah, I'd feel awkward too.

[singsingsing]

don't bet on it it stops few men if they have any choice about it and a opportunity.

Thanks for educating me, I didn't know anything about men before your comment.

Really, that's a very simplistic and kind of insulting view of men. If an 18-year-old guy wants to have sex, he needs a few things: actual motivation to do it (not just general horniness), enough confidence to pursue it, and the availability of at least one woman who would be willing to do it with him. Now you tell me how likely you think it is that a fundamentalist homeschooled 18-year-old who strongly believes in courtship would have the motivation, confidence, and availability to have sex.

(I'm not saying it's impossible - just unlikely.)

[sleepygirl1]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but saw this a thought of the duggars and fundies.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 1369_n.jpg

[LilMissMetaphor]

Thanks for educating me, I didn't know anything about men before your comment.

Really, that's a very simplistic and kind of insulting view of men.

Doggie views women in that way too. Well, actually, people and things in general.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Sleepygirl1: That is hilarious! (Dating with no intent to marry is like going to the grocery store with no money. You either leave unhappy or take something that isn't yours.) Like so many Christian bumpersticker authors, I'm sure the writer, Jefferson Bethke, is congratulating himself on being wonderfully clever. Meanwhile the rest of us in Realityland are laughing at the idea that having on fun on a date is "taking something that isn't yours." Or would make you unhappy unless it ended in marriage. Gosh darn at, I'm so miserable at the thought of all those times I went out with all those different guys and went to the movies or got pizza or went swimming, etc. What sad, sad memories I have! :lol:

[Ralar]

don't bet on it it stops few men if they have any choice about it and a opportunity.

In the Modern Orthodox (Jewish) community, those guys (not sure about the girls) are referred to as 6-1-2ers. There are 613 commandments in the Torah, but they are not observing one of them.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Seriously ? Arm candy for a rich guy is a preferable aspiration to marrying a boy who she seems to have chosen of her own free will ? Yuck.

I don't know that she has chosen this boy of her own free will. Personally I think she may just be escaping the family and doing whatever she needs to do even if it is marrying someone she has no real love for. On the other hand I've known a few "arm candy" women and they were perfectly happy to have a very rich boyfriend or husband paying for their education, taking them around the world, setting them up in their own business. People use what they have to get ahead in the world and not everyone has brains. Some women are just born beautiful and I see nothing wrong in using whatever you have to make the most of your life. My point is, I don't think Jessa has any freedom to do anything but follow whatever her parents tell her to do (get married, have a jillion babies) because she has been brainwashed into thinking any other lifestyle is ungodly. I don't think there is a god, so the idea of spending your life pleasing him instead of pleasing yourself is a waste of life.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

singsingsing wrote:

Fourcard5 wrote:

I bet Ben not a virgin

He's very religious and he just turned 18 a few months ago, so I don't like your odds.

don't bet on it it stops few men if they have any choice about it and a opportunity.

I doubt he's ever had the opportunity. If his parents have done their job "right" he's never been alone except to pee or shower. And, even among less strident Christians, it's not that rare at 18. Yes, some my define "virgin" only as doing the procreative deed and anything else dosen't "count," and NO not many guys admit it............. But I would think it's a 100% safe bet that a kid courting a Duggar is going to be a virgin in every way except maybe a little very, very fast action in the shower.

BRAIN BLEACH now, please, :disgust:

[singsingsing]

I'd say more than half of the guys I knew at that age were 'still' virgins, and I'm talking liberal secular guys at a public high school.

[AnywhereButHere]

Yeah, most kids I knew were a whole lot of talk but not much serious action to back it up, and I lived at school so there wasn't a whole lot of parental influence with school rules that weren't too hard to circumnavigate. I can't see even a fairly sheltered, fundie boy getting a lot of opportunities to experiment.

[fullmetalheart]

Actually the photos were posted at the end of September so they were taken sometime before then. In fact I'd guess the "leaked" courting photos were taking around this same timeframe.

It looks like the whole duggar clan was there including grandma. I'm not up to date on big family rules but it seems odd that your whole 20+ person family(San TLC crew) felt the need to go to your boyfriends family reunion unless you are more then boyfriend/girlfriend and plan to soon be joined by marriage. I would have never attended something like that with a boyfriend especially with my whole family following. But what do I know, I'm a heathen who dated.

Oh, I don't know. It seems pretty typical in the fundie circles and how courtship goes, especially if you go the "one and only" route.

[MrsYoungie]

Am I the only one who thinks Jessa actually looks happy in most of the photos? Especially the slightly less posed ones. She really seems to be glowing.

I am annoyed that the Duggar "dating" rules include absolutely no one-on-one time with your future spouse. They talk about seeing them in their natural environment and seeing how they interact with your family etc. etc. But how one acts around other people and how one acts when alone can be quite different. I think most of us know a friend (or maybe an ex-boyfriend) who was charming when out in public, but could be quite a bastard when alone with you. Luckily, if you were just dating, you could end it and be done before any further mischief could arise. These fundies won't know they've married a latent bastard until it's too late.

[paganhomeschooler]

Am I the only one who thinks Jessa actually looks happy in most of the photos? Especially the slightly less posed ones. She really seems to be glowing.

I am annoyed that the Duggar "dating" rules include absolutely no one-on-one time with your future spouse. They talk about seeing them in their natural environment and seeing how they interact with your family etc. etc. But how one acts around other people and how one acts when alone can be quite different. I think most of us know a friend (or maybe an ex-boyfriend) who was charming when out in public, but could be quite a bastard when alone with you. Luckily, if you were just dating, you could end it and be done before any further mischief could arise. These fundies won't know they've married a latent bastard until it's too late.

THIS. My dad would act like a kind, caring, friendly individual out in public. At work, he bragged to his female coworkers how wonderful I was. At home, he was a dick. He emotionally and psychologically abused my mom and I for years. I do know of a handful of episodes of physical abuse with my mom. One of them, the night I came home from France for 2 weeks right after I graduated high school. You know, that's what someone wants to have to take pictures of at 2 AM when they get home from the most exciting time of their life....the hand prints on their mother's neck. They finally got divorced when I was 21.

He was slightly less douchey around family, but he would sometimes slip. I know it hurts my grandparents that he and I don't have a relationship, but they also understand. Especially after last year. (I was trying to be cordial....for my grandparents and so my kids could have some sort of relationship with their grandfather. No, they were never in harm's way. They are never alone with him. They've also been told they are never to leave school with him, and I put his name down as the only person who is NOT allowed to pick them up.) Anyway, last Christmas, we had just moved. My kids were spending the weekend with my mom. My dad and stepmom show up unannounced at like 11 on a Sunday morning. My husband and I were, ahem, occupied, and rather disheveled when we got to the door. They dropped off the presents and left since the kids weren't here. I took the kids to take them their presents one day, and they weren't home. Then, I got sick. So sick, I was barely able to walk upstairs in my own home. That lasted about 4 months. My stepmom's cancer had recurred, and she underwent a full mastectomy which did not heal properly and was undergoing chemo, so I didn't want to get her sick. My dad sent me a nasty email about not celebrating Christmas anymore. I sent him one back that sorry I didn't want to kill his wife with the nastiness we had! Haven't heard from him since. My grandma is very upset with him about that. The word sociopath comes to mind.

Anyway, yes, guys can be dicks if you don't get the chance to know them! Hell, my mom did know him. They were high school sweethearts and were married for 30 years. I'm sure some of it had to do with him going to 'Nam, even though he was not in the war zone. He was on a remote missile base. He always was violent, though. My grandma told me a story of him pulling a pocket knife on the neighbor kids when he was about 6 the other day. Word of advice for anyone out there who may need it.....if your spouse is a monster, don't stay together "for the kids". They know, and they will be much happier without the jerk in their lives.

[nellautumngirl]

I'm slightly worried about the fact that everyone is worried about Ben. Nobody reacted that way with Chad and Erin. Then again, Erin's family actually allowed them to get to know each other :/ I wish Jim Bob wasn't such a terrible judge of character. How is Jessa supposed to recognize an abuser? I hope this turns out well and that we just worry too much.

[Minerva]

I cross my arms a lot. It's comfy. Holds up the boobs. Not an indicator of any specific emotions, thanks.

[Cone]

I think everyone is over analyzing the crossed arms, but maybe she was just being awkward because she was meeting 100 new Seewalds? Seriously, meeting the boyfriend's family is nerve wrecking and the extended family is just scary!

[lexiloumarie]

I always imagine the whole "guard your heart" even when courting thing makes it awkward. They're taught not to flirt, not to express interest beyond biblical and vision related isssues. That's ignoring your natural reactions when you're attracted to someone.

[GeoBQn]

I think everyone is over analyzing the crossed arms, but maybe she was just being awkward because she was meeting 100 new Seewalds? Seriously, meeting the boyfriend's family is nerve wrecking and the extended family is just scary!

I started dating my husband about 6 weeks before my brother's wedding. While I wished that he could have been there (and it's odd explaining to people that yes, we were together at that time but no, he wasn't there), we both agreed that it would have been too awkward for him to meet my immediate family AND extended family for the first time at a major family event.

[Mama Mia]

I don't know that she has chosen this boy of her own free will. Personally I think she may just be escaping the family and doing whatever she needs to do even if it is marrying someone she has no real love for. On the other hand I've known a few "arm candy" women and they were perfectly happy to have a very rich boyfriend or husband paying for their education, taking them around the world, setting them up in their own business. People use what they have to get ahead in the world and not everyone has brains. Some women are just born beautiful and I see nothing wrong in using whatever you have to make the most of your life. My point is, I don't think Jessa has any freedom to do anything but follow whatever her parents tell her to do (get married, have a jillion babies) because she has been brainwashed into thinking any other lifestyle is ungodly. I don't think there is a god, so the idea of spending your life pleasing him instead of pleasing yourself is a waste of life.

Well that just made it soooo much worse. So this boy seems to share her belief system ( regardless of what others may think of her values, she does seem to believe them) , they appear to be interested in each other and I seriously doubt she's being forced into anything. I, personally, wouldn't want my whole family supervising my relationship, but they do seem to be spending time together to find out if its a good match.

But somehow you think she should prostitute herself to the highest bidder so she can get a bunch of material crap is a great option since she's pretty? WTF. Again, Yuck !

[Gertie]

I always imagine the whole "guard your heart" even when courting thing makes it awkward. They're taught not to flirt, not to express interest beyond biblical and vision related isssues. That's ignoring your natural reactions when you're attracted to someone.

This made me realize why her arms are crossed. She's physically guarding her heart :lol:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Well that just made it soooo much worse. So this boy seems to share her belief system ( regardless of what others may think of her values, she does seem to believe them) , they appear to be interested in each other and I seriously doubt she's being forced into anything. I, personally, wouldn't want my whole family supervising my relationship, but they do seem to be spending time together to find out if its a good match.

But somehow you think she should prostitute herself to the highest bidder so she can get a bunch of material crap is a great option since she's pretty? WTF. Again, Yuck !

Yeah, thats nothing any woman should aspire to.

Theres more to Jessa than just a pretty face. She also is quite practical and organised[p'54;#@R FFV (Cat on keyboard, think she wants attention. I just fed her.) and she seems to still have quite a strong personality that hasnt been broken yet. Not sure how intelligent she is, as she was homeschooled by a complete idiot, but she seems bright enough to be at least somewhat employable. I think shes less at risk from being abused than one of her less spirited sisters like poor Jana.

[singsingsing]

18-year-old Ben now has a Facebook page where he is dispensing his wisdom: facebook.com/benL4CSeewald

Did I mention he's 18?

[GeoBQn]

Right now about half of his posts are quoting someone named Kevin Smead. I guess this is the start of that "ministry" JimBob was so impressed about.