The Pilgrim/Hales/Buckinghams

[lilith]

There is no way they would have been allowed to just take those kids, incorporate them into an already overcrowded family, "homeschool" them and give the "pastoral care" Provided by their new headship instead of real counseling, then block their actual mother out if their lives, if they hadn't been perceived by both the community and the authorities as a "good Christian family" headed by an ex services patriot.

Those kids have been let down once again.

They grew up illiterate in a crazy religious cult run by their father. They were physically abused and isolated from the world. Their sister was sexually abused and beaten severely. I am sure they witnessed their mother being beaten.

They need proper counseling and help to understand the world, not more isolation, educational neglect and religious crazy. Child services and the courts who heard all this evidence need to make sure they get it, even if the children say that they don't want it. They are traumatized children, they can't make that call.

Sure they are in a better situation than they were, but that doesn't make it an ok situation. It's like they've been moved from maximum security prison to medium security. They are still totally imprisoned.

[Witsec7]

Last night Denali claimed they received counseling. I had asked if it was just pastoral and it wasn't answered. There was nothing in Denali's answer to indicate that the counseling was ongoing.

[lilith]

Last night Denali claimed they received counseling. I had asked if it was just pastoral and it wasn't answered. There was nothing in Denali's answer to indicate that the counseling was ongoing.

Maybe that's where I got the impression it was pastoral from.

I don't see the Buckinghams taking them in for ongoing regular counseling though. I may be wrong, and I hope I am.

[Witsec7]

Maybe that's where I got the impression it was pastoral from.

I don't see the Buckinghams taking them in for ongoing regular counseling though. I may be wrong, and I hope I am.

I hope you are wrong as well. It's likely that Denali isn't going to reveal who they are and why we should believe them. Kind of like KISSA.

[fundiefan]

The Maxwell connection to these people doesn't surprise me in the least. I hope when Sarah visited Alaska she loved it because daddy Steve is heading in the same crazy, isolationist, fucked up direction.

I'm horrified to think of what life will be like for that not even 48 hour old baby boy.

The Maxwell cult will be in the news one day for going completely off the deep end like daddy Hale, I'd bet my life on it.

[Witsec7]

The Maxwell connection to these people doesn't surprise me in the least. I hope when Sarah visited Alaska she loved it because daddy Steve is heading in the same crazy, isolationist, fucked up direction.

I'm horrified to think of what life will be like for that not even 48 hour old baby boy.

The Maxwell cult will be in the news one day for going completely off the deep end like daddy Hale, I'd bet my life on it.

I called it a couple of weeks ago, Sara in the kitchen with a muffin tin.

[lilith]

The Maxwell connection to these people doesn't surprise me in the least. I hope when Sarah visited Alaska she loved it because daddy Steve is heading in the same crazy, isolationist, fucked up direction.

I'm horrified to think of what life will be like for that not even 48 hour old baby boy.

The Maxwell cult will be in the news one day for going completely off the deep end like daddy Hale, I'd bet my life on it.

I totally agree. First thing I thought when I discovered the Hale/ Pilgrim mess, is " wow, even more isolationist and Daddy worshipping than Steve. But Steve's getting there".

That said, I think the Maxwells are pretty attached to suburban comfort, which gives the kids some level of safety, just having other people in close proximity, even if they aren't allowed to associate with them.

[lilith]

I hope you are wrong as well. It's likely that Denali isn't going to reveal who they are and why we should believe them. Kind of like KISSA.

I wonder if the goats will ever let her return.

Someone on the Facebook page seemed to know who she was, I forget the name.

[StarrieEyedKat]

I wonder if the goats will ever let her return.

Someone on the Facebook page seemed to know who she was, I forget the name.

Which facebook page?

[lilith]

Which facebook page?

The FJ one, sorry.

Edited cause quote system and iPads are tricky together.

[fundiefan]

Once Gigi and grandpa are gone, there won't be anyone to keep Steve in any kind of check, even if it's only for appearances. There won't be anyone left that he has to answer to in any way. Teri's parents next door keeps him in shackles. Once their ties to 'the old evil mortal life of origin' are gone I have no doubt Stevie will seriously up the ante. Especially since the dog & pony show is obviously slowing to a near halt. Only two of his kids have families of their own. He's kept a firm grip on the rest as everyone is all too aware of. The skills of the boys at home are moveable - they can do their 'work' from anywhere, if necessary. No jobs to answer to, no family ties, no suckers packing in the shows on the road. Eventually, there will be nothing keeping them in the real world at all and they'll be gone, literally and figuratively.

[desertvixen]

Once Gigi and grandpa are gone, there won't be anyone to keep Steve in any kind of check, even if it's only for appearances. There won't be anyone left that he has to answer to in any way. Teri's parents next door keeps him in shackles. Once their ties to 'the old evil mortal life of origin' are gone I have no doubt Stevie will seriously up the ante. Especially since the dog & pony show is obviously slowing to a near halt. Only two of his kids have families of their own. He's kept a firm grip on the rest as everyone is all too aware of. The skills of the boys at home are moveable - they can do their 'work' from anywhere, if necessary. No jobs to answer to, no family ties, no suckers packing in the shows on the road. Eventually, there will be nothing keeping them in the real world at all and they'll be gone, literally and figuratively.

Sometimes I wonder if Steve might pull a John List - kill the whole family and try to vanish, because financially things are going downhill and he's afraid the kids won't be saved anymore....it wouldn't be as easy for him to vanish as List did, but I think Steve has the same kind of arrogance.

[stacyf]

I lived in AK for 21 years and now reside in the lower 48, been here 2 years. I find it interesting to read all this about the Pilgrim Family. Papa creeped me out from the start but I was introduced to the family way before I ever knew about FJ and the wacky fundies. I kept running into this group while working for the Feds in Ak and then I lived right next to where Papa was hiding out (Eagle River/Powder Ridge) when he was on the run and then I was testifying in a case in a courtroom next to where he was being sentenced and got to meet some of the kids while waiting in the hallway. They were all very friendly but simple people. Papa was just abusive and a nut case and I am glad he is gone.

One thing I will say about the PFD is that it lures families like this to AK. Free money will do that. Not sure how to solve it though. It is written into the State Constitution (thank you Jay Hammond). As residents of the state of Alaska we retain all subsurface rights to our Natural Resources. These rights are then sold to various corporations and the money invested in the Permanent Fund. As owners of those rights we are paid a dividend yearly. Some years as high as $2000, some as low as $300. I would guess the average is about $1000. That money goes a long way if you are living a subsistence lifestyle which I would guess the Hale/Buck family are doing. Alaska is a state that had the opportunity to "do it right", they sat back and watched what other states did right and wrong and used this information when writing the constitution. The Native People also have a similar system though some have definitely been more successful than others.

Alaska can be expensive but in no way is fuel the most expensive, there are no income taxes and a few areas have sales tax. Some food is more expensive but some is the same as the Lower 48. The winters are killer and traveling outside takes lots of time and money and that is where it got expensive for me. I have recently moved to the New England area and I would say the COL is about the same. Restaurant meals are more expensive in AK and gas is about 25-30 cents more a gallon but I would say it costs about the same to live here as it did there. My PFD usually paid my travel expenses back here to visit family so it all evened out.

[Witsec7]

Thanks Stacy, can you speak to the rise of the religious right and influx of fundies into the Wasilla area? I know there was coverage on Mudflats and naturally Joe McGinniss wrote about it. Was it obvious to you that these folks were overt fundies and looking to live below the radar in the great white north?

[stacyf]

Wow, not really sure if they lived below the radar. Lots of nutjobs in AK so they all blend in. There is a church on every corner and oh yeah a bar too. It really was one extreme or the other. Wasilla is a strange place, lots of people trying to live "their" life, whatever that might be. There are the Preppers, the militia men, the Jesus lovers, the live off the earth people, the meth cookers, the meth heads and a few felons hiding from the law, all hanging out in the Valley. I was really ignorant of all the "fundie" stuff going on and had just started reading FJ a few years ago. I kind of traveled in the bar group in AK, not really the church group. There is also a very large Mormon population there and they are a bit more obvious because of their proselytizing. There are also the Old Believers and they kind of fascinated me. You see lots of them on the Kenai Peninsula. I really never put 2 & 2 together about the Pilgrims until reading here. To me they were just another militant group living in the bush obsessed with the Federal Government in a way that could not end well.

[emmiedahl]

You are really scaring me away from Alaska. The government will pay for my medical education if I agree to work there. My inclination has always been "no thank you very much" but my husband really loves Alaska.

[Witsec7]

Wow, not really sure if they lived below the radar. Lots of nutjobs in AK so they all blend in. There is a church on every corner and oh yeah a bar too. It really was one extreme or the other. Wasilla is a strange place, lots of people trying to live "their" life, whatever that might be. There are the Preppers, the militia men, the Jesus lovers, the live off the earth people, the meth cookers, the meth heads and a few felons hiding from the law, all hanging out in the Valley. I was really ignorant of all the "fundie" stuff going on and had just started reading FJ a few years ago. I kind of traveled in the bar group in AK, not really the church group. There is also a very large Mormon population there and they are a bit more obvious because of their proselytizing. There are also the Old Believers and they kind of fascinated me. You see lots of them on the Kenai Peninsula. I really never put 2 & 2 together about the Pilgrims until reading here. To me they were just another militant group living in the bush obsessed with the Federal Government in a way that could not end well.

I would get to AK a couple times a year when I was working for conferences. But only to Anch. I did drink a bit at Bernies, cause I was up in the summer, and always went to downtown farmers market.

[stacyf]

Alaska is a pretty awesome place but where you live matters. I lived in a small military community just north of Anchorage. Lots of different people with different lifestyles. The further off the road system you get the smaller the communities and the more someone different stands out. I found that if you approach the smaller communities with an open mind the better you will do. Wasilla and the Valley have become just an extension of Anchorage in some ways but have also become a bit of a hiding ground for those people that may have issues (of all kinds).

I would jump at the chance to live there if I were you, it will be an amazing experience. Tolerance will get you far in the small villages and the Native People are wonderful and welcoming if their culture is respected. I don't regret one single day I lived in Alaska. I have some great adventures to share and some experiences that will last a life time. When I was 23 and left for Alaska I wrote a bucket list with 275 things on it and Alaska (living there and traveling to and from there) delivered almost all of them. If you enjoy the outdoors and are open to new experiences you will enjoy it. I left because of family and 7-8 months of winter and 30 below just wore me down. I managed to drag a born and raise 45 year resident (DH) with me too so that was a bonus.

[stacyf]

I would get to AK a couple times a year when I was working for conferences. But only to Anch. I did drink a bit at Bernies, cause I was up in the summer, and always went to downtown farmers market.

Makes me wonder if we may have crossed paths. I had a co worker who loved at Bernies and every Friday we would get off work and head over to Bernies to enjoy the patio (at least in the summer). I miss it but have been back 4 times in two years so I don't miss it too much yet but it is amazing to be able to hang with family all the time now.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I'm really surprised that Steve would allow his children to associate with Hales, because of the physical and sexual abuse they experienced. Wouldn't Steve think they are tainted by their father's sins? Maybe it's okay since they are Buckinghams now.

FWIW they were friends with the Buckinghams first, before the Buckinghams ever moved to Alaska (they're not originally from Alaska, they're a former military family that came from the lower 48). The Buckinghams then became intrigued with the Hale family who they heard were living near them (the Hale family too is not originally from Alaska, they moved there from New Mexico). But the Maxwells were friends with the Buckinghams in Kansas, LONG before any of them heard of the Hales or thought anything about Alaska.

Then the families merged, but the new kids (well, "kids" - the older ones were full adults already) would be adopted (or fostered, I dunno) kids of a family they were already friends with.

Personally I think for the Hale kids the combining of families was definitely a step up. And I'm sure the Buckingham family means well and surely they're nice people.

But that doesn't change the fact that all of them are mired in a patriarchal fairy tale that they are wasting good time and effort on, and feeling that they need to only ever swim in street clothes is just one tiny symptomatic sign of the whole thing. I'm sure they'd think I'm beyond the pale too but from where I sit, it's "ah, too bad they are mired in foolishness." Normal(!!) people manage to live moral, upstanding, faithful to their spouse and family, CONSTRUCTIVE (i.e. not just wasting brain cycles on religion and trying to bring other people to religion) lives while wearing normal swimwear to a public pool in the daytime on occasion.

Ages ago I watched a show on PBS about isolated families in Alaska (though relatively speaking these people aren't all that isolated, quite frankly) - and it turns out that there's quite a steady stream of people moving from "the lower 48" to Alaska in attempts to "get away from it all" and go extreme isolationist, some for religious reasons, others just to be hermits. People who have lived there for generations in quite remote places but as VILLAGES seem to pretty much find these migrants odd.

[Witsec7]

Makes me wonder if we may have crossed paths. I had a co worker who lived at Bernies and every Friday we would get off work and head over to Bernies to enjoy the patio (at least in the summer). I miss it but have been back 4 times in two years so I don't miss it too much yet but it is amazing to be able to hang with family all the time now.

Fried prawns heads, perfect martini's a bit of bocci some local artsy gossip, and a walk to the Hilton. Post 9/11 I always made sure I had a Russian cabbie for my ride in from the airport so I could grab some

[stacyf]

So I guess you know about the special Matanuska ThunderF#ck....yeah TSA kind of cuts down on all that now.

[Witsec7]

So I guess you know about the special Matanuska ThunderF#ck....yeah TSA kind of cuts down on all that now.

I had the same cabbie for six years, pre 9/11 he'd get paid in Boregonia's finest, post 9/11 we changed the rate of exchange. I actually got offered a job up there and it was very hard for me to turn it town, but my DD wasn't settled in to a profession yet. Now I'm too old to take the freekin' cold.

[Denali]

Not sure if it really matters in the end to mention this, but yes, ongoing outside services are used frequently. And everything is court ordered and sanctioned. Even the schooling is done by a certified teacher using a state program that has the same testing rigors as the public school system has.

And living 5 minutes from the center of town, in an urban neighborhood area is not isolated, lol! And spending time with people outside the family on a near daily basis is not all that isolated either.

[Miss M]

Not sure if it really matters in the end to mention this, but yes, ongoing outside services are used frequently. And everything is court ordered and sanctioned. Even the schooling is done by a certified teacher using a state program that has the same testing rigors as the public school system has.

And living 5 minutes from the center of town, in an urban neighborhood area is not isolated, lol! And spending time with people outside the family on a near daily basis is not all that isolated either.

Are they cool with you being over here posting all their family details, Paula??

M.