The Pilgrim/Hales/Buckinghams

[Elle]

A few points of interest.

No food stamps are used.

The house is 3 times its original size. And fully approved.

All services such as counseling, fostering of minors etc have been used.

Over half have now completed state accredited high school, with the rest at their appropriate grade level.

2 are now pilots with another soon to be.

7 are married now, and not necessarily to each other.

A large number of the older ones run a very successful construction company.

The bio mom was removed by the court system.

Yeah, I'm reading through a few other articles, and it sounds like the Buckingham family did all this without relying on taxpayer help (the dividend isn't taxpayer-funded, so I'm not counting that). It sounds like they absorbed a lot of the costs, if not all of them, and that the family, and Buck's own mom, went above and beyond to teach those kids. It sounds like the Buckinghams did much better for those kids than any state-run social system could have.

I'm not surprised that Rose was removed from the equation. While she was abused herself, it doesn't sound like the first few years were like that, and parents have an obligation to get help, if they have the ability to, when abuse of children starts, and she had the chance when she was still in civilization and didn't. And after so many years of it, I'd question her ability to properly raise children since by that point she'd probably been brain-washed enough to believe it was acceptable, and simply loving one's children doesn't mean one has the ability to do so safely.

[Elle]

Elle, you are fairly correct in your thoughts. In fact, would you be shocked to find out they do not even spank in that house?

A fundy who doesn't abide by some sort of rod? Or pipe? THAT is seriously surprising. Do you know the family? I want to send something to them, I don't know what, but something that say I'm so sorry for what the Hale kids went through and to thank the Buckinghams for doing what they did to get those kids the hell away from such horrific abuse and for being there for them and really going above and beyond what we ever hear about people, especially fundamentalists, willing to do.

[Witsec7]

A few points of interest.

No food stamps are used. -its been theorized

The house is 3 times its original size. And fully approved. the home expansion was widely covered. Permits, well they're not available online

All services such as counseling, fostering of minors etc have been used.pastoral?

Over half have now completed state accredited high school, with the rest at their appropriate grade level. fath based education?

2 are now pilots with another soon to be.Its on the web

7 are married now, and not necessarily to each other.on the web

A large number of the older ones run a very successful construction company.we have no way to measure the 'success' but the construction company info is out there

The bio mom was removed by the court system.

Its on a thread here

[terranova]

A few points of interest.

No food stamps are used.

The house is 3 times its original size. And fully approved.

All services such as counseling, fostering of minors etc have been used.

Over half have now completed state accredited high school, with the rest at their appropriate grade level.

2 are now pilots with another soon to be.

7 are married now, and not necessarily to each other.

A large number of the older ones run a very successful construction company.

The bio mom was removed by the court system.

Source?

[lilith]

Its on a thread here

If the Buckingham family is trying to feed all those kids without an income earner, they damn well should use food stamps and whatever other help is available. I hope that no one is going without just so the Buckinghams can pridefully state that they aren't accepting state help.

The houses original size was TINY. Even at three times that, it's small for all those people and less than what most states would mandate as appropriate.

I'm glad these kids were helped. I just question if they were helped as fully as they could and should have been. And I question if the best thing to do for an abused, traumatized, brainwashed woman who has been under her abusers power since she was only 16, is to take her children away instead of giving her the help and resources to learn to parent them properly. Papa Pilgrim probably always told her that "outsiders" would take her kids, and lo and behold, they did.

I also wonder if Buckingham would have been so quick to help if the problem hadn't been sexual. That family was being abused in many other ways, but those ways are all sanctioned as the right of a fundie father.

[Witsec7]

Heck lets cut to the chase. Waking your 'kids' up at 1am so that they can hike into a hotspring and not be despoiled, what's up with that speshul brand of crazy?.And do the kids still have to bathe in their underwear:roll:

[Denali]

Head of household does work full time.

Choosing to swim when the springs were not packed with people so they could actually fit in there, well...

[lilith]

Head of household does work full time.

Choosing to swim when the springs were not packed with people so they could actually fit in there, well...

In was under the impression Mr Buckingham had retired from the military. Is this untrue, or has he found other employment in Alaska?

Even one income is very little for all those people. Do any of the adult women contribute financially to the household?

[Witsec7]

I suspect that the Alaska Permanent fund provides a sizable contribution to household income.

[Denali]

In was under the impression Mr Buckingham had retired from the military. Is this untrue, or has he found other employment in Alaska?

Even one income is very little for all those people. Do any of the adult women contribute financially to the household?

Everyone of working age does contribute. Yes, retired, but has other work.

[Denali]

I suspect that the Alaska Permanent fund provides a sizable contribution to household income.

Most years its only a little over a thousand dollars each.

[Witsec7]

So what brings you here Denali? Friend of the family? Buck/Hale?

Yea did the research on the APF payouts online. For a family of their size that's a serious chunk of change.

[emmiedahl]

Over a thousand per year *each* and how many people are in the household? That is a sizable amount of government assistance.

[lilith]

Is that the financial contribution adult females make? Existing, thereby qualifying for a socialist payout?

Or do any of them work for a wage outside of the home?

Do you consider the rehabilitation of the Hale children successful of none of the adult daughters are able to support themselves?

[Witsec7]

I was just going over to check the trip blog, since I distinctly recall nothing was said about room for everyone at the hot springs and whala its invite only now :lol:

edited to add:

Well what do you know. Jim is a pastor now. So he's a pastor, and runs a dog kennel. What a busy headship.

Pastor Jim and Martha Buckingham said the family is welcome to stay in their cabin as long as they need to, but noted that it is close quarters for nine people.

http://www.frontiersman.com/news/hero-b ... 8aeb0.html

[Kaylee]

This is sort o random, but when and why did they change Elishaba's name? Apparently her name at birth was Butterfly?

[lilith]

This is sort o random, but when and why did they change Elishaba's name? Apparently her name at birth was Butterfly?

When they found God. They met on the hippie trail. The second kid has a hippyish name too.

[Denali]

Is that the financial contribution adult females make? Existing, thereby qualifying for a socialist payout?

Or do any of them work for a wage outside of the home?

Do you consider the rehabilitation of the Hale children successful of none of the adult daughters are able to support themselves?

Would you consider it successful that all the married couples own large homes and land without mortgages? And in one of the most expensive states to live to boot!

The payout, as you call it, is what we get because of us paying the highest tax on oil/fuel in the nation. Fuel is always at least $4 a gallon on the road system.

[Denali]

I was just going over to check the trip blog, since I distinctly recall nothing was said about room for everyone at the hot springs and whala its invite only now :lol:

edited to add:

Well what do you know. Jim is a pastor now. So he's a pastor, and runs a dog kennel. What a busy headship.

http://www.frontiersman.com/news/hero-b ... 8aeb0.html

The paper called him pastor, but that is not what he is.

[emmiedahl]

Would you consider it successful that all the married couples own large homes and land without mortgages? And in one of the most expensive states to live to boot!

The payout, as you call it, is what we get because of us paying the highest tax on oil/fuel in the nation. Fuel is always at least $4 a gallon on the road system.

Fuel is around $4 a gallon all over the US. Things are more expensive in Hawaii and no one is kicking down thousands per year per person. It is absolutely government assistance, just not means-tested.

[Alecto]

I always thought that fund was based on the money made by the natural resources removed from public land in Alaska.

[Miss M]

Would you consider it successful that all the married couples own large homes and land without mortgages? And in one of the most expensive states to live to boot!

The payout, as you call it, is what we get because of us paying the highest tax on oil/fuel in the nation. Fuel is always at least $4 a gallon on the road system.

WAAAA, we have been paying $3.99 for close to a year now, and when I lived in Wisconsin three years ago it was already over $4 a gallon there...so cry me a river where is my state check??

M.

[Denali]

Fuel is around $4 a gallon all over the US. Things are more expensive in Hawaii and no one is kicking down thousands per year per person. It is absolutely government assistance, just not means-tested.

We were paying that years before you all. Call it what you will. It all goes to bill regardless.

[emmiedahl]

I always thought that fund was based on the money made by the natural resources removed from public land in Alaska.

It is. The evil socialism.

[Denali]

I always thought that fund was based on the money made by the natural resources removed from public land in Alaska.

That is the basics of it. But we also have to ship out all the oil we pump, and then buy it back due to no refinery. It is a rather weird thing.