Josh and Anna 56: AMA and Stuck in Duggarville?

[Maggie Mae]

23 hours ago, postscript said:

 If Josh truly believes his conviction will be reversed on appeal, he is an idiot.

Even if he hasn't managed to convince himself that he's innocent, he's not going to admit guilt to Anna or his parents again. He has to keep up the illusion that he is innocent, he needs her to continue to pray for him and (more importantly) put money in his commissary account and be a pipeline to outside information & connection. 

23 hours ago, postscript said:

If Anna is visiting and talking to Josh regularly and sending him devotionals for them to work through together, she is going to push him away. There will come a time when he throws those marriage devotionals at the wall and tells her to lay off. Let him deal with his own problems and focus on your kids, Anna. They need you far worse than Josh does at the moment. 

It might be annoying for him but she probably feels like she needs to do something and this is all she can do. She wholeheartedly believes that God chose her to be this man's husband and she is going to do what God wants. IMO, of course. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I will say it’s probably fairly easy for her to go stay with the pecans while she visits Josh every other weekend. If she didn’t have the pecans, it would be harder because she would have to get a hotel. 

[Cam]

I need more proof that Anna has given Josh reading material/devotionals on marriage before I believe it. I think it’d be one more thing other inmates would harass him about. 

[Mrs Ms]

Just now, Cam said:

I need more proof that Anna has given Josh reading material/devotionals on marriage before I believe it. I think it’d be one more thing other inmates would harass him about. 

I was thinking that the marriage workbook thingy would probably pass the nudity/erotica threshold for inmates and not be allowed! Christian or not Christian, I just can’t seeing that happening.

[Antimony]

16 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

I was thinking that the marriage workbook thingy would probably pass the nudity/erotica threshold for inmates and not be allowed! Christian or not Christian, I just can’t seeing that happening.

It would absolutely not pass such a threshold and be banned. Tons of such things get in just fine. Christian material is especially easy to get in where the equivalents in other religions wouldn't be but nothing about those devotionals would make them count as erotica or nudity by BOP standards, because they're not erotica or nudity at all. 

[AussieKrissy]

17 hours ago, marmalade said:

Kids are allowed in federal prison, but there's a minimum age limit. I don't recall what that is, but I don't think Anna could bring most of her kids, even if they were allowed to visit a convicted child sex abuser. 

That's fucked 

In Aus Child sex offenders are banned from under 18 visitors unless they apply for very special circumstances! 

sounds like common sense to me, why would this rule not be enforced in other countries also baffles me. 

[nokidsmom]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

I see Anna staying put for the time being.  If Josh doesn't want her living close to the prison, he'll put the word out to JB.  She can't move without total financial support. 

I agree that Anna will stay put for the same reasons, if Joshley doesn't want her to move, she's not going to move.  She is completely dependent on JB's support regardless of wherever she ends up long term.  Even if she does move to TX, I can't see Pecan able to support both her and his own family.  And he shouldn't have to either.  Either it's JB or she works out how to support herself.  

However, when (not if) Joshley's appeal fails, I think there will be a greater push on her part to move closer to him.

I dunno, sometimes I think it might be good for her to move to TX, gets her away from living in the Duggar borg 24/7. It might be good to be closer to her sister, her own family even if it's in Pecan World.  Then again, maybe distance from Joshley, the inconvenience of traveling to see him also might play a part in waking her up, especially when the appeal fails and she really has to face the prospect of living without him for years. 

And there's the factor that Joshley himself might just end things.  On some level, I don't think he minds prison as far as he doesn't have any family responsibilities.  And no worries about having another M'kid which I never thought he was particularly keen on having as many as possible.  Always thought that was Anna's thing but he had to go along.  

[Mama Mia]

46 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

That's fucked 

In Aus Child sex offenders are banned from under 18 visitors unless they apply for very special circumstances! 

sounds like common sense to me, why would this rule not be enforced in other countries also baffles me. 

Oh sorry, this is just general prisoner rules from their website, it’s entirely possible particular prisoners have restrictions based on their specific crimes.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wouldn’t put it past JB to pay for rent of a home near the prison. Hell, he’s into real estate right? Well he could buy a property for Anna. Then when Josh gets out, he could sell it. Nothing surprises me about JB anymore. I think if Anna is willing to stay with Josh, support him, and keep the kids in communication with Josh, he will give Anna money. 

I wonder if JB might be petty enough to do that because Josh doesn’t want her to move closer.

[Coconut Flan]

It looks like Josh Duggar's lawyers get to make oral arguments in his appeal.  Possibly they might get scheduled for January. 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/appeals-court-to-hear-josh-duggar-oral-argument/

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm on the fence about age limitations for minors visiting parents in prison, even if the parent is a sex offender.  We see Josh as a monster - rightly so, based on his conviction - but it is entirely possible that the kids still just see him as daddy.  I don't really trust Anna to make it their choice if they visit or not, but I would imagine that going completely no-contact with a parent from a young age abruptly would be very hard on a kid.  I'm no child expert, I just think it's complicated and not really a one size fits all.

A friend of mine's baby daddy is in prison for abusing his ex girlfriend while she was pregnant to the point where she had a preterm delivery at 31 weeks.  She is a prior victim of his abuse as well and therefore cannot take her son to visit him, nor do they have a good relationship with her son's grandmother.  I believe she said that a minor could only be brought for a visit by a direct relative, so this means that as long as the father is in prison his son cannot visit him.  It seems hard on the son who does love his father, despite all of this.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

However, when (not if) Joshley's appeal fails, I think there will be a greater push on her part to move closer to him.

I dunno, sometimes I think it might be good for her to move to TX, gets her away from living in the Duggar borg 24/7. It might be good to be closer to her sister, her own family even if it's in Pecan World.  Then again, maybe distance from Joshley, the inconvenience of traveling to see him also might play a part in waking her up, especially when the appeal fails and she really has to face the prospect of living without him for years. 

I think Anna is waiting for the appeal and truly thinks Josh will be found innocent. Once the appeal fails she’s going to have to face the music.

I actually think a move to Texas would be good for her. She went from her father’s house into Josh’s, being on her own could facilitate growth.

[SassyPants]

40 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think Anna is waiting for the appeal and truly thinks Josh will be found innocent. Once the appeal fails she’s going to have to face the music.

I actually think a move to Texas would be good for her. She went from her father’s house into Josh’s, being on her own could facilitate growth.

I wonder who pays her bills? 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder who pays her bills? 

Jim Bob, without a doubt

[Four is Enough]

15 hours ago, Cam said:

I need more proof that Anna has given Josh reading material/devotionals on marriage before I believe it. I think it’d be one more thing other inmates would harass him about. 

When my child was in prison, we could send books, but they had to be straight from the publisher, wrapped and sealed, or they couldn't receive them. (because hiding drugs in the pages, I was told.)

And if someone harassed Joshley about his "christian" beliefs, it would just be ONE MORE bit of evidence that Christians are prosecuted. He'd be a martyr for the cause. How could anyone so Godly do what they accused him of?

[EyesOpen]

I don’t care at all about what’s convenient or desirable for Anna or Josh. The kids, imo, need the the stability of staying with their Duggar cousins, aunts uncles etc they’ve grown up with… who cares if it’s inconvenient for Anna to see Josh. Visit less. Focus on your poor kids who most definitely need therapy and deconstruction that you aren’t offering. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

I don’t care at all about what’s convenient or desirable for Anna or Josh. The kids, imo, need the the stability of staying with their Duggar cousins, aunts uncles etc they’ve grown up with… who cares if it’s inconvenient for Anna to see Josh. Visit less. Focus on your poor kids who most definitely need therapy and deconstruction that you aren’t offering. 

I hate to say it but Anna doesn’t seem to put her kids first. She seems to put her marriage first. Which just breaks my heart. I really hope the older kids are completely over their dad by the time he gets out and put a little distance between themselves and him. 

[Howl]

Yup, moving the kids would certainly be disruptive. 

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I really hope the older kids are completely over their dad by the time he gets out and put a little distance between themselves and him. 

Such a good point. By the time Josh gets out, the oldest kids will likely have very specific information on what put their dad in prison, because internet and gossipy cousins. 

HOWEVER, they may have always been told by their mom and other relative AND come to believe that their father is innocent and wrongly imprisoned. 

Also, they will have been totally brainwashed in the belief of sin washing (all sin is the same) and that they MUST forgive their dad. 

They will have been taught and immersed in the beliefs that allowed Josh to become the vile human being that he is and also kept Anna in her own little hell. 

[Cam]

I wonder if the new book Jinger has coming out will address anything at all about how her new perspective on religion helped her deal with the trial and family interactions around the whole ordeal. Even if she doesn’t discuss the topic, the M kids will be able to read her book at some point and see that their parents’ and grandparents’ religious views don’t have to remain their views. They’ll see their aunt made different choices as an adult. Not saying Jinger’s current religious beliefs are better, only saying that it could give the M kids some food for thought.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The fact that he won’t be regularly in their lives gives me hope. Anna can talk Josh up like he’s a king. But the fact that he’s never there for them should make some sort of impact. And hopefully that means they won’t be close with him after he gets out of prison. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The fact that he won’t be regularly in their lives gives me hope. Anna can talk Josh up like he’s a king. But the fact that he’s never there for them should make some sort of impact. And hopefully that means they won’t be close with him after he gets out of prison. 

A decade is such a long time in the life of a child. The oldest will be well into her 20's when he's released and the baby will be approaching adolescence. It's hard to imagine any of them seeing him as a parent at that point, even the ones who have clear memories of living in the warehouse with them. Throw in the fact that everyone at that point will fully understand he did time because he's a convicted pedophile, and it's hard for me to see Josh being "Dad" to them ever again.  Trying to imagine the reaction to him telling a teenage Mason to clean his room...

[nokidsmom]

14 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think Anna is waiting for the appeal and truly thinks Josh will be found innocent. Once the appeal fails she’s going to have to face the music.

Anna clearly refuses to believe that Josh is truly guilty as evidenced by her angry expression leaving the courthouse alone after his conviction and her "more to the story" post afterward.   She is grasping at any possible straws in hopes he will be found innocent.    I think her frequent visiting and giving him things like devotionals is just her way of continuing things as much as normal during this interim time after which he will return to her and the kids, resuming their lives as normal.    

Her life is forever changed and she is having a difficult time believing it.  I think it's understandable at this point, it's not been that long since his conviction and adjusting to the new normal is going to take time.  Unfortunately the appeals process delays that inevitable reckoning that Josh is guilty, will be in prison for years, his life will be seriously limited once he gets out.  There's no going back to "things as they were before".  Anna needs to come to terms with that and make decisions accordingly.

 

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Yup, moving the kids would certainly be disruptive. 

Such a good point. By the time Josh gets out, the oldest kids will likely have very specific information on what put their dad in prison, because internet and gossipy cousins. 

HOWEVER, they may have always been told by their mom and other relative AND come to believe that their father is innocent and wrongly imprisoned. 

Also, they will have been totally brainwashed in the belief of sin washing (all sin is the same) and that they MUST forgive their dad. 

They will have been taught and immersed in the beliefs that allowed Josh to become the vile human being that he is and also kept Anna in her own little hell. 

I hope the Ms, somehow, can find good marriages to people whose beliefs don't excuse Josh.  They'll need to protect their own kids.

[Alisamer]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

A decade is such a long time in the life of a child. The oldest will be well into her 20's when he's released and the baby will be approaching adolescence. It's hard to imagine any of them seeing him as a parent at that point, even the ones who have clear memories of living in the warehouse with them. Throw in the fact that everyone at that point will fully understand he did time because he's a convicted pedophile, and it's hard for me to see Josh being "Dad" to them ever again.  Trying to imagine the reaction to him telling a teenage Mason to clean his room...

Since it's the Duggars, it's entirely possible Mackenzie will be married or even have a child of her own by the time he gets out of prison. Hopefully she'll have an idea what exactly Josh was looking at, and look at her own child, and have a moment of clarity.

[sndral]

8 hours ago, Howl said:

…

HOWEVER, they may have always been told by their mom and other relative AND come to believe that their father is innocent and wrongly imprisoned. 

Also, they will have been totally brainwashed in the belief of sin washing (all sin is the same) and that they MUST forgive their dad. 

They will have been taught and immersed in the beliefs that allowed Josh to become the vile human being that he is …

We have a pretty good idea that this will be what happens based on the fact that it is what happened when Josh molested his sisters, they all allegedly forgave him & two went on television to publicly defend him…saying it wasn’t ‘that bad,’ he suffered consequences, we’ve forgiven him, etc.. Likewise, Anna jumped on the forgiveness train early on after the Ashley Madison stuff.

To me it seems pointless to cling to denial, but I guess Josh has to claim he didn’t do it pointing the finger at some other person until his appeal is over. Then he’ll need to fess up to be ‘successful’ w/ therapy, so I guess at that point Anna too will admit he did it & revert to her usual forgiveness, Joshua’s changed, blah blah blah.