Josh and Anna 56: AMA and Stuck in Duggarville?

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[FleeJanaFree]

There’s a fun AMA on Reddit from a girl who said she grew up with Anna. The mods say they have  been thoroughly vetted/proven to know Anna. Take it with a load of salt, yadda yadda yadda, but Lots of good stuff and even some burns on the Rod family.( Even fundies consider them Pick Me’s. OP thinks Nurie has a scary personality.)

 

I know FJ looks down upon Reddit, but I thoroughly enjoy reading this. This was a comment where I thought OP implied they’re involved in the fundie documentary that’s coming out soon. 
 

 

 

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Edited October 10, 2022 by Coconut Flan
Spoiler for multiple photos.

[libgirl2]

51 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

There’s a fun AMA on Reddit from a girl who said she grew up with Anna. The mods say they have  been thoroughly vetted/proven to know Anna. Take it with a load of salt, yadda yadda yadda, but Lots of good stuff and even some burns on the Rod family.( Even fundies consider them Pick Me’s. OP thinks Nurie has a scary personality.)

 

I know FJ looks down upon Reddit, but I thoroughly enjoy reading this. This was a comment where I thought OP implied they’re involved in the fundie documentary that’s coming out soon. 
 

Nurie was described as "scary" I believe. She takes after her mother if that is the case. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Coconut Flan
multiple images in quote

[Maggie Mae]

The main reason that I think it's fake is motivation based. Supposedly this person who has never seen the show, never used reddit or snarked before, wants to come online and talk about this person she knew 14 years ago? And she knows some snarker lingo and that reddit is nicer than "the freejingers?" RIGHT. 

It's just like the babysitter. How do they even "validate" these? Just group pictures of her with Anna 20 years ago at a Gothard gathering? 

[Antimony]

23 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Nurie was described as "scary" I believe. She takes after her mother if that is the case. 

The poster said she'd never met Nurie in person, so this is either an inconsistency or Nurie has built up a reputation. Both are possible. I would be interested in the Plath take on this, maybe from Ethan and Olivia, since they've already alluded to not loving the RodPod. I have no doubt that Nurie is hateful, but I have a hard time squaring with what "scary" would mean for a starving cult girl who weighs 90-some "trim" pounds soaking wet. My best guess would be that she had some sort of mean-girl energy mixed with a tendency to be a bit conniving, but still...scary? 

4 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

It's just like the babysitter. How do they even "validate" these? Just group pictures of her with Anna 20 years ago at a Gothard gathering? 

I think it's that kind of thing and sometimes drivers licenses. I tend to believe less "outright fraud" than "exaggeration of the their relationships" and the fact that having known somebody so long ago just, well, usually isn't all that juicy or interesting. I mean, even here, people have talked about how they've known people, acquaintances, that were caught with CSA and there's very rarely something new or enlightening about it that makes it all make sense the way a story-loving-gossip-loving-human-brain wants it to. 

I think the Leaving Eden episode on Sex Ed would be useful, though, for those stuck on that the poster said that girls in the cult don't know anything about how babies are made even though well, the cult is devoted to making babies. That episodes talks about the books Jim Bob famously gave Josh at the rehearsal on camera, and talks about how it is possible that they teach about menstrual cycles but none of the mechanics of any part of sex or genitalia. 

[noseybutt]

13 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

The main reason that I think it's fake is motivation based. Supposedly this person who has never seen the show, never used reddit or snarked before, wants to come online and talk about this person she knew 14 years ago? And she knows some snarker lingo and that reddit is nicer than "the freejingers?" RIGHT. 

It's just like the babysitter. How do they even "validate" these? Just group pictures of her with Anna 20 years ago at a Gothard gathering? 

I assume the never used Reddit=never had an account or posted. I would assume most people coming out of those backgrounds would be skilled lurkers on various forums. (By skilled, I mean understanding how to use basic search functions by topic and poster.) 

 

3 minutes ago, Antimony said:

The poster said she'd never met Nurie in person, so this is either an inconsistency or Nurie has built up a reputation. Both are possible. I would be interested in the Plath take on this, maybe from Ethan and Olivia, since they've already alluded to not loving the RodPod. I have no doubt that Nurie is hateful, but I have a hard time squaring with what "scary" would mean for a starving cult girl who weighs 90-some "trim" pounds soaking wet. My best guess would be that she had some sort of mean-girl energy mixed with a tendency to be a bit conniving, but still...scary? 

I think it's that kind of thing and sometimes drivers licenses. I tend to believe less "outright fraud" than "exaggeration of the their relationships" and the fact that having known somebody so long ago just, well, usually isn't all that juicy or interesting. I mean, even here, people have talked about how they've known people, acquaintances, that were caught with CSA and there's very rarely something new or enlightening about it that makes it all make sense the way a story-loving-gossip-loving-human-brain wants it to. 

I think the Leaving Eden episode on Sex Ed would be useful, though, for those stuck on that the poster said that girls in the cult don't know anything about how babies are made even though well, the cult is devoted to making babies. That episodes talks about the books Jim Bob famously gave Josh at the rehearsal on camera, and talks about how it is possible that they teach about menstrual cycles but none of the mechanics of any part of sex or genitalia. 

Same. 

The ones who don't offer much new information generally strike me as more credible because the information is old. Also, these are not groups that foster healthy female friendships. The woman know about each other via gossip and reputation. They may have friendships based on various activities such as church services or family camps. But they would be hard pressed to form deep friendships with other teenagers simply because of time and energy constraints and general isolation. Plus, friendships and family were encouraged to be let go of once they married.
 

 

[postscript]

4 minutes ago, Antimony said:

 I tend to believe less "outright fraud" than "exaggeration of the their relationships" and the fact that having known somebody so long ago just, well, usually isn't all that juicy or interesting. 

This is how I approach most AMAs. I’m inclined  to believe most of them (including this one) actually knew the people they’re talking about, just not as well as they claim. In addition, the relationships are often years in the past and heavily filtered through subsequent experiences. This person specifically says she’s (I assume it’s a her) holding back info in order not to doxx herself. The details she does give are credible. 
 

 

12 minutes ago, Antimony said:

That episodes talks about the books Jim Bob famously gave Josh at the rehearsal on camera, and talks about how it is possible that they teach about menstrual cycles but none of the mechanics of any part of sex or genitalia. 

I also find this credible, because it’s not far off what I was taught as a teen in the 70s. I knew what male genitalia looked like and that they weren’t supposed to connect with mine outside of wedlock, but neither my mother nor high school health classes (which were heavily focused on anti-drug training) gave any guidance as to mechanics.  I wasn’t taught anything about ovulation, fertility, or birth control. I don’t know if this was standard for the era. I do know a few people who were taught less. 

[Antimony]

21 minutes ago, postscript said:

I also find this credible, because it’s not far off what I was taught as a teen in the 70s. I knew what male genitalia looked like and that they weren’t supposed to connect with mine outside of wedlock, but neither my mother nor high school health classes (which were heavily focused on anti-drug training) gave any guidance as to mechanics. 

Speaking of things that might not be credible, one of my roommates a summer camp that I went to a few years in a row told me she went to a Catholic School (true as far as I can tell) but because they couldn't show them any actual genitals during Catholic School Sex Ed, the instructors used illustrations of a shark penis and shark genitals to explain, uh, external and internal genitals. 

This could be a lie from a middle schooler at a summer camp, but also, it wouldn't be the craziest thing I've ever heard either. So, counting this one as an urban (summer camp?) legend. I tend to believe that my roommate-friend was sort of repressed in some way by her upbringing because she was wild at camp in a way none of the rest of us were. Snuck heels into her luggage, read us naughty vampire fanfiction she wrote, taught us to play blackjack with pringles, etc. Definitely had the energy of somebody rebelling two-or-three fold against what she was raised with. 

[libgirl2]

I went to Catholic school and I just remember the teacher rather matter of factly saying "the penis is inserted into the vagina". No one asked any questions. I had a zillion, like exactly how do these fit together? Is it only to make a baby? Inserted? Like a tab?  My world wise friend clued me in. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

She seems to really hate Pa Keller. Can’t blame her for that. Of course we never know for sure if these things are real. But I enjoy reading them on a boring afternoon. 

[noseybutt]

I thought on another thread that somebody said the book the Duggars gave was Intended for Pleasure. That one definitely has details around the mechanics.

Though that wouldn’t mean Anna necessarily had the information in advance.

[sndral]

4 hours ago, Antimony said:

Speaking of things that might not be credible, one of my roommates a summer camp that I went to a few years in a row told me she went to a Catholic School (true as far as I can tell) but because they couldn't show them any actual genitals during Catholic School Sex Ed, the instructors used illustrations of a shark penis and shark genitals to explain, uh, external and internal genitals. 

…

Hope your Catholic school camp mate wasn’t too surprised when she discovered that human males only have one penis unlike sharks w/ their two claspers 😂.

Edited October 10, 2022 by sndral

[Antimony]

20 minutes ago, sndral said:

Hope your Catholic school camp mate wasn’t too surprised when she discovered that human males only have one penis unlike sharks w/ their two claspers 😂.

I think she knew and they just used it as...an example?

It's something Klingons and Sharks have in common. 

[amster]

5 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I assume the never used Reddit=never had an account or posted. I would assume most people coming out of those backgrounds would be skilled lurkers on various forums. (By skilled, I mean understanding how to use basic search functions by topic and poster.) 

I respectfully disagree. People who grow up in the secular world have enough trouble with technology, I doubt someone who grew up sheltered and having their internet usage restricted and monitored would be that skilled at navigating forums. My best friend still struggles with basic tasks like software updates in her early 30s, and my other friend has just discovered online shopping. These are highly educated women, multiple degrees and masters between them. 

EDIT: and neither of them would have heard of Reddit, let alone used it

Edited October 11, 2022 by amster

[JermajestyDuggar]

Since the person claims to have grown up with Anna, she would have to be early 30s. I guess it’s possible she left at least 10 years ago and learned more about tech in the last decade. I’m not saying she is or isn’t, just that she may have learned over a long period of time. 

[noseybutt]

 

19 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Since the person claims to have grown up with Anna, she would have to be early 30s. I guess it’s possible she left at least 10 years ago and learned more about tech in the last decade. I’m not saying she is or isn’t, just that she may have learned over a long period of time. 

IME it is rare for a person under age 40 to go through the deconstruction process these days without some access to online spaces. That includes youngish adults from very conservative and anti-tech backgrounds (eg conservative Mennonite). It can be a very lonely process and it’s not hard to google “ex-_________”.

Shrug.

It’s not like I know hundreds of people from those types of backgrounds though so maybe the ones I have known are a select sample.

Kind of off topic but the poster mentioned that some of her family were Sovereign Citizen types and that is another group that used to be very low tech with hand typed materials and such but now communicates heavily online.

33 minutes ago, amster said:

I respectfully disagree. People who grow up in the secular world have enough trouble with technology, I doubt someone who grew up sheltered and having their internet usage restricted and monitored would be that skilled at navigating forums. My best friend still struggles with basic tasks like software updates in her early 30s, and my other friend has just discovered online shopping. These are highly educated women, multiple degrees and masters between them. 

EDIT: and neither of them would have heard of Reddit, let alone used it

 I’m not interested in contradicting anyone’s experience because it’s that, experience. I believe what you say. But it is also true that most (not all) college degrees these days require some basic computer skills and navigation of discussion boards.

It could go either way.

Edited October 11, 2022 by noseybutt

[meep]

Also keep in mind not every single family follows the same rules. Growing up, our family friends involved in IBLP/ATI absolutely used the internet in their homes. The teen kids using forums and blogs absolutely were a thing (monitored, yes, but still tech literate; sometimes moreso than me and we were not members of ATI/IBLP). 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I have a bit of a conspiracy theory about Josh’s photo “leaking.” Given that Josh is making eye contact with the camera, though blurry, I wonder if he wasn’t behind the leak in some way. He could have gone in with the other inmate and split the cash from the sale to the Daily Mail. Or simply gone along with it as a way to keep his photo in the news/ piss off Jim Bob. 

As far as the hand sign, I can’t speculate, I’m not up on prison hand signs. 

[Cults-r-us]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She seems to really hate Pa Keller. Can’t blame her for that. Of course we never know for sure if these things are real. But I enjoy reading them on a boring afternoon. 

I am wondering if the Keller sister who cried for 3 days after being told of the groom Pa Keller had selected for her was Esther.

[marmalade]

I am dubious. How on earth would s/he know that Smuganna slipped into a little side room for the quickie that took Anna's virginity? And one of Anna's siblings stood sentinel? Sorry, but that just didn't happen.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Just now, marmalade said:

I am dubious. How on earth would s/he know that Smuganna slipped into a little side room for the quickie that took Anna's virginity? And one of Anna's siblings stood sentinel? Sorry, but that just didn't happen.

It’s horrifying if it did. I’m not sure if it did happen, I’m saying it’s something I could see Josh doing

[JermajestyDuggar]

I could see Josh wanting a heavy petting make out session immediately after the ceremony. But not sex.

ETA: I worded that poorly. Of course he wanted sex. He’s a fucking perv. But I think even Josh knows what he can and can’t get away with when 400 fundies are around. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[marmalade]

He was married. He could stick his tongue down her throat in public. People would have probably hand waved away some groping as well. 

[Mela99]

I can’t decide what I think of the AMA. A lot of things I would stop and say “yes, this makes total sense” but the guarded door for marriage consummation still floors me. 
 

I do believe that the fathers brokered this and Anna was simply told what was happening. 
 

also this was my first time (ha) hearing about the IFP list of instructions for losing your virginity and I don’t think I’ll ever be the same 

[indianabones]

4 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

I am wondering if the Keller sister who cried for 3 days after being told of the groom Pa Keller had selected for her was Esther.

The poster confirmed that she was talking about Esther. She also said that John impregnated Esther two weeks after she'd given birth to her first baby, but the math doesn't quite add up (unless there was a miscarriage.) Enoch was born 1/17/03 and Alatheia was born 3/13/04.