Dillards 91: Increments of Change or Not?

[JDuggs]

It seems like Jill and Derick waited to cut a deal with Goldfish Swim School before pursuing lessons for Israel and Sam. If swimming safety was truly valued by them, at least Israel should have started a few years ago.

[adidas]

13 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Didn’t the Duggars own a property with a pool? 
It seems ridiculous they wouldn’t take the trouble to teach children to swim - it is literally a life saver.

I agree that any child growing up near water (especially in the US where pool fence rules are non existent) should be taught to swim … and I know I’m being pedantic in my next point but swimming is very different to life saving. They should be taught rescue and survival skills too. I’ve taught both (lots of uni kids in Australia are certified with Austswim and have a bronze medallion) and sometimes the kids who excel in swimming fail the life saving course because very different skills are involved in the two disciplines.

Your point that someone who can only dog paddle and float is unlikely to be able to save themselves in an aquatic incident is spot on. 

[SassyPants]

I took many, many swimming classes. Beyond a baby class, I don’t think any lesson class would qualify a non swimmer as Pool safe. Sure being able to adequately star fish could help, but dog paddling expends energy without effective forward motion over a length of time. I don’t think anyone would consider DPing an effective swimming technique or safety aid.

TLDR- DPing is not a swimming stroke. I’m not sure Jill knows that though. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by SassyPants

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

It seems like Jill and Derick waited to cut a deal with Goldfish Swim School before pursuing lessons for Israel and Sam. If swimming safety was truly valued by them, at least Israel should have started a few years ago.

I wondered why they haven’t been put in before. 
My daughter and I did Mums and bubs swimming lessons from six months. 
Even if Jill had some “water trauma/shame” to work through, as soon as Izzy could listen to sit and stay on the side of the pool he could have been in the water on his own. 
A kickback from the pool is great and I don’t care if they get one, I care that the boys are getting lessons. I hope even after the kickback stops they continue on with lessons. 
I look at derricks long lean body with long arms and he looks like a great swimmers body. Izzy looks like he will take after him, so swimming could be a great fitness/athletic/competitive outlet for him and Sammy and future D babies. 
I would love to see Jill in mums and bubs while the boys are in their lessons and then maybe getting the confidence for some adult lessons. (What a great thing to model her boys). I say this with no snark. I watch the adult lessons and admire them for taking the plunge (ba ha ha) and getting lessons. I can swim (ish) to save my life in very very mild seas but my fitness lack of technique let  me down. I would love to have the courage to take adult lessons. 
 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I have a feeling this is pretty prevalent in fundie circles. Because 1) modesty 2) money 3) time. I’m guessing huge fundie families don’t prioritize swimming lessons for similar reasons why their kids don’t get to do organized sports or extra curriculars. When you have 19 kids, it’s probably hard to get them all to different lessons and pay money for all those lessons. The girls probably have it worse since they are shamed into wearing heavy modesty outfits in the water. Who wants to swim in that? I’m not surprised Jill didn’t want to keep up with swimming. 

[Mama Mia]

Did all of you have formal swimming lessons? Most people I know who took any kind of swimming lessons took one or two 4 week, 90 minutes, a couple days a week lessons over a summer or two — if that. Hardly enough to make anyone a proficient swimmer. And a few people did those parent/baby classes or got more into it and did Jr Guards. — but there certainly wasn’t some universal that kids took swim lessons. In my generation, or my kids, or now my grandkids. How common is this?

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Did all of you have formal swimming lessons? Most people I know who took any kind of swimming lessons took one or two 4 week, 90 minutes, a couple days a week lessons over a summer or two — if that. Hardly enough to make anyone a proficient swimmer. And a few people did those parent/baby classes or got more into it and did Jr Guards. — but there certainly wasn’t some universal that kids took swim lessons. In my generation, or my kids, or now my grandkids. How common is this?

I was born in 82 and we started swimming lessons at the YMCA as toddlers. It was an indoor pool so we took swimming lessons all year around. We kept moving up in classes until we were proficient swimmers. A lot of my friends had swimming lessons but not everyone did. It was more of a financial issue for some. Unfortunately the poorer kids were less likely to have lessons because their parents couldn’t afford it. I would like to see them be free to all kids. It’s a safety issue. 

[GutenbergGirl]

I was "taught" to "swim" by my oldest brother throwing me into the deep end of a pool when I was 6.  My (drunk) father was too busy laughing to help me.  Luckily, my next older brother managed to get me to the side where I could hold on.  I have no memory of where my mother was.  She could have been there, or not. 

I don't claim swimming as a skill. 

Edited to add, I was born in 1975, so this would have been 1981.  

Edited April 3, 2022 by GutenbergGirl
Add when I was born.

[BlackberryGirl]

I took swimming lessons a few summers and my mom and brothers who were excellent swimmers also taught me and my sister. 
 

we put the little berries and the grandberries in swimming lessons every summer, until they got their red cross certificate. They could swim the width and length of the pool both above and under water. In high school they had swimming instruction in gym class and had to do self rescue, jumping in fully clothed.

Blackberry Boy can’t swim a stroke. He sinks like a rock, has no buoyancy  at all.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The Maxwells teach their grandchildren to swim in the neighbor’s pool. Which just makes me roll my eyes so hard. I’m sure Steve makes them do it that way for modesty purposes. They are little kids!

[feministxtian]

I did swimming lessons as a kid once my mother got her license (don't ask). About a year later she got fed up with having to drive me to lessons (she hated driving). Later on, like age 8-9, I started summer camp at the Y in VA. Since I went to ALL the sessions all summer (and lessons were included), I got pretty good, pretty quick. My dad put his foot down and informed the mother that I would continue with lessons. Once we moved into the neighborhood with the community pool, I started swimming on the swim team. I also was an assistant teaching the itty-bitty ones to survival swim (putting face in water, turtle float, roll over to back float, rudimentary strokes/kicking). 

My kids sort of swim and I'm ashamed of that, but the X wouldn't bother paying for lessons b/c he couldn't swim and didn't see the point in learning. 

[Snowless]

On 3/18/2022 at 1:52 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Oh dear! I hope Jill is okay. Covid is not good for pregnancy.

I’m only just now coming upon this thread, but yeah, you definitely don’t want to get COVID while pregnant.  My sister-in-law had that happen while she was pregnant with my nephew last year.  SIL had contracted it from her grandmother without realizing it and my brother got it, too.  Her grandmother ended up dying from it in April of last year after three weeks in intensive care. My brother’s symptoms were mild, but my SIL was a little bit worse for wear.  Thankfully she didn’t need to be hospitalized.  Their daughters (my nieces, who are now 5 and 3, but were 4 and 2 at the time) luckily did not catch it.  Despite all of that, my brother is still anti-vax (or at least anti-COVID vax).

I also had a former high school classmate who was hospitalized with COVID while pregnant and her child had to be delivered early via C-section.  I only found out because her story made the local news.  The last I’d heard, my classmate had been taken off the ventilator and was able to breathe and talk on her own, and that was last summer.  I hope she’s made a full recovery since then.  (She and I weren’t close, although our brothers were friends in middle and high school.  So, unfortunately, I’m not in contact with her.)

It’s been a few weeks since this post and I saw the story about Jill shopping for maternity jeans, so I’m presuming she’s recovered and doing much better now.  I’m going to go back to reading this thread.

[Smee]

I’m in Australia, 2min from a lake, 10min from the beach, and where half the houses have a backyard pool (not mine  though). It’s very unusual here for kids to not have swimming lessons. Mine do lessons over the summer at an outdoor pool but in the past have done classes year-round at indoor pools. My eldest started when he was 3 and stopped proper lessons when he could swim 100m freestyle, 50m backstroke and breaststroke. My middle child started when she was 1 but had a couple of years break after moving house and then covid closing our local pool, so she would still struggle to make it 50m. She’s 8 now, and still in summer lessons. My youngest is 5 and I have tried so many swim schools, but she hasn’t progressed beyond the beginner group because she will not put her face down in the water or dunk under, she hates it. When we go to the beach or lake to her grandparents’ house with a pool, she won’t go near the water without floaties and tends not to go more than waist deep, she’s not the kind of kid who will take up swimming as regular exercise/sport.

[ifosterkittens]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

Did all of you have formal swimming lessons?

Yes, lots of formal swim lessons. I was raised in Florida, and there are bodies of water everywhere so thankfully my parents prioritized swim lessons. I feel like in FL everyone knows someone who knows someone that has a tragic story of a kid drowning. Plenty more people who were lucky but see in a few more minutes it could have been a tragic situation. 

49 minutes ago, GutenbergGirl said:

I was "taught" to "swim" by my oldest brother throwing me into the deep end of a pool when I was 6.

I am so sorry. That is a scary experience, and not at all helpful or instructive. 

I don't know how to insert the picture, but I've included a link for swimsuit visibility in a pool. Obviously, it isn't a replacement for proper supervision and swim lessons, but interesting to keep in mind when swimsuit shopping.  https://www.racmn.com/blog/swim-suits-and-underwater-visibility

[Snowless]

On 3/24/2022 at 6:18 AM, Melissa1977 said:

Girls can be tornados, too, if they are allowed.

That would be my younger niece in a nutshell.  She turned 3 last month and is the textbook example of a “threenager”.  She’s quite hyper and loves to climb on things.  I have a feeling she may end up being the athlete in the family because she’s probably going to need to take up sports to work off some of that extra energy.

[Giraffe]

Where I grew up swimming lessons were only something “the rich” kids could do. Swim lessons were a luxury. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Giraffe

[Grace987]

We do have no proof that Derrick hasn’t been taking the kids to swim and teaching them himself as he was an instructor.  I was an instructor and I’m teaching my kids. If I was offered free lessons via goldfish promo id sign the kids up but otherwise, free open public swim time and teach em myself 

[Snowless]

18 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Didn’t the Duggars own a property with a pool? 
It seems ridiculous they wouldn’t take the trouble to teach children to swim - it is literally a life saver.

I’m guessing swimming lessons aren’t necessarily a top priority in Arkansas because there aren’t as many pools there, I’m presuming.  I imagine there are rivers and lakes to swim in, though.  Compared with a place like Florida, though, with a lot of pools and opportunities to swim, it’s very smart to teach kids how to swim here as soon as possible.  You can actually start early swimming lessons as soon as 6 months old to get the child acclimated to the water, but proper swimming lessons can start as early as age 1.  I think I was maybe 3 or 4 when I took swimming lessons.  I’m not exactly the strongest swimmer now, but in a swimming pool I can at least swim well enough to swim from the shallow end to the deep end without issue and if I find myself underwater in the deep end I can orient myself and swim up to surface for air. In more open bodies of water like a beach or spring, though, I prefer to keep to the shallows for the most part.  (Because with beaches come the threat of rip currents.  Not good.)  It’s always sad to hear about a drowning in the news, especially if it’s a child, so I always think it’s smart to try and learn to swim as soon as possible.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

23 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Today on IG Jill posted that she can only doggy paddle and float. I feel so badly for her. Of course DD was a collegiate swimmer and won state championships- JB and M are just the worst. They gave all those blessings so little in tangible skills and knowledge-

Don’t they have a pond or other body of water on the property of the Duggar compound?

[Vivi_music]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have a feeling this is pretty prevalent in fundie circles. Because 1) modesty 2) money 3) time. I’m guessing huge fundie families don’t prioritize swimming lessons for similar reasons why their kids don’t get to do organized sports or extra curriculars. When you have 19 kids, it’s probably hard to get them all to different lessons and pay money for all those lessons. The girls probably have it worse since they are shamed into wearing heavy modesty outfits in the water. Who wants to swim in that? I’m not surprised Jill didn’t want to keep up with swimming. 

I also suspected that modesty standards played a lot in why fundies aren't very proficient swimmers. The Duggars certainly are active and had no problem letting the Howlers bike around and play in the courtward when they were young. These activities could be done while maintaining their modesty dress, even for the girls, like Joy. I suppose biking with a long skirt is not the most practical, but it's more doable than swimming.

And of course,financial reasons also counts. Most of these mega-families certainly didn't have the means they have now. Not only are swimming lessons expensive for 12+ kids, but actually having access to a pool as well. When I was growing up, not everyone owned a pool and it was certainly a sign of middle class or upper middle class. And going to the local indoor pool like you mentionned, can get expensive with eleventy kids.

@Mama Mia Born in 91 and my siblings and I all took swimming lessons, also in indoor installations. My mother was in competitive swimming when she was young and was very aware of water safety. We also had a swimming pool at home so it was important for her that we would be comfortable in the water. My brothers weren't big into swimming so I think they stopped after 2 or 3 years. I enjoyed it more and I continued swimming until completing my bronze cross and bronze medallion Lifesaving courses in my teens.

But I don't think all my friends had swimming lessons no. My mother's background and probably the fact we had a pool at home played a lot in it.

 

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, Grace987 said:

We do have no proof that Derrick hasn’t been taking the kids to swim and teaching them himself as he was an instructor.  I was an instructor and I’m teaching my kids. If I was offered free lessons via goldfish promo id sign the kids up but otherwise, free open public swim time and teach em myself 

I didn’t know he was a swim instructor.
I could not imagine having those skills and not using them to help my child. I hope he is the same and has been giving them lessons. 
what a great way to save some cash and bond with your kids. I hope that was the case. 
either way the boys being in lessons now is fab. Even better if they are not starting off with no experience. 

[Lotsofdots]

Aussie here, we did swimming lessons at school from reception to year 7, and lifesaving during summer holidays plus Nippers to learn how to safely save ourselves at the beach. 
Also just swimming at family members pools.  We weren’t well off being a ‘broken home’ but knowing how to swim was priority. 

These days VacSwim classes are subsidised so very affordable, around $30 a kid and capped at $100 for multiple siblings. 

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, Snowless said:

I’m guessing swimming lessons aren’t necessarily a top priority in Arkansas because there aren’t as many pools there, I’m presuming

Isn't Arkansas very hot on summers? I guess there are pools in every neighbourhood. Duggars didn't swim because modesty (boys couldn't wear shorts in summer!), but Dillars are not like that. Even Maxwells took swimmimg lessons!

[GreenBeans]

5 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I wondered why they haven’t been put in before. 
My daughter and I did Mums and bubs swimming lessons from six months. 

It may have to do with availability? Here, swim classes are booked solid two years in advance, and it got worse during the pandemic, with many pools being closed. Those kids who would have taken lessons two years ago have just started over the past few months, and the demand by younger children keeps increasing.

[GreenBeans]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

I hope he is the same and has been giving them lessons. 
what a great way to save some cash and bond with your kids. 

I think most kids respond better when they aren’t being taught by a parent. Family dynamics can play a big role, and parents teaching their own kids is often fun for neither. I remember always feeling sorry for those kids who were coached by their parents when I was in sports teams as a child.