(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 40 : Hope NWA Has Enough Booze* to Get the Jurors Through the Weekend

[EyesOpen]

It’s confusing to me that dugger family official is not being monitored or shut down right now… the comments range from snarky to downright nasty. I’m all for being these people to account  in the light but … what’s going on? Do they no longer have minders? Are they just… busy and forgot they have a Facebook page and people are just trashing them? I don’t get it

[Shrubbery]

Something I just realised is that when JB and M first learned about Josh‘s molestations, they had „only“ about 12 or 13 children (not sure about the exact timing). They knew (or should have known) then that they had at least 4 potentially traumatised daughters (I reckon even the children who were not molested by Josh might well have been upset by things they might have witnessed, hence the „at least“ - not meant as a speculation that there were more direct victims) as well as a son who displayed deeply disturbing behaviours, but who at that age might have still been helped to become a better person, and not offended again. They ought to have understood then that they needed to focus on helping their existing children (including the violent offender).

However, they decided not to close up the WonderWomb, even temporarily, and dedicate their time to their children in need of help, just because they liked producing more children to neglect better.

They are disgusting.

[FiveAcres]

13 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

It’s confusing to me that dugger family official is not being monitored or shut down right now… the comments range from snarky to downright nasty. I’m all for being these people to account  in the light but … what’s going on? Do they no longer have minders? Are they just… busy and forgot they have a Facebook page and people are just trashing them? I don’t get it

Busy and forgot would be my guess. I am fairly certain that Jim Bob is too cheap to outsource the family social media to a (paid!) professional so it is probably a family member doing it. 

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues]

7 minutes ago, Shrubbery said:

Something I just realised is that when JB and M first learned about Josh‘s molestations, they had „only“ about 12 or 13 children (not sure about the exact timing). They knew (or should have known) then that they had at least 4 potentially traumatised daughters (I reckon even the children who were not molested by Josh might well have been upset by things they might have witnessed, hence the „at least“ - not meant as a speculation that there were more direct victims) as well as a son who displayed deeply disturbing behaviours, but who at that age might have still been helped to become a better person, and not offended again. They ought to have understood then that they needed to focus on helping their existing children (including the violent offender).

However, they decided not to close up the WonderWomb, even temporarily, and dedicate their time to their children in need of help, just because they liked producing more children to neglect better.

They are disgusting.

In the face of all this trauma their first thought seems to have been: "You know what we need?  TV cameras and more babies!"

[PinkGreyBrown]

Speaking of potential Duggar tell-alls: I've always thought that -- aside from the primary Duggars -- Anna seemed the most effectively positioned to cash in with a tell-all. I've thought that since before Josh's CSAM arrest. She's bearing a great deal of stress & thus might crumble earlier than others in the primary group.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think JB and Michelle will become like Capn Bret and Jackie Smith. They will wonder why so many people have turned their backs on them and will have pity parties for their son in prison. But JB and Michelle know better than to do that publicly (unlike the Smiths). They will have private pity parties with people that still kiss their ass. Like the Spiveys. BTW the Smiths also chose their oldest golden son over their daughters. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[Pink Muffin]

I have been following the events of this trial and reading the comments from you.

I'm not going to comment on this because you have said it all better than I  ever could.

I follow an ex-fundie on Tiktok, her name is Rachel Caine @iblamebill  she's not reporting on the trial but today she had an interesting video about him. What really did stand out for me was this: These people think all sins are equal so what he did is not a big deal since we all sin. And there are no victims, no harm done to real people since sin is against God, God is the victim. 

She has something to say to/about Ben too.

Go and see her video, she says it so much more elequant than I can write it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

So they lied and passed off their speculation as being facts? There is so much truly awful facts in this situation that I hate people are making up stuff so they can get attention. The last thing this horrific case needs is a bunch of speculation being circulated as facts. 

 

I'm removing the link from the sticky to FW.  People can find it if they want but clearly it's not a contemporaneous accurate account.

[Trainwreck]

sorry if this has already been addressed, but what's really sticking out to me is that Josh downloaded TOR/Linux and CSAM all within an hour. It just seems like he knew exactly where to find what he was looking for. Does he have IRL pedo friends that showed him (barf!) or is this material that accessible (double barf!)

[Xan]

28 minutes ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

In the face of all this trauma their first thought seems to have been: "You know what we need?  TV cameras and more babies!"

Not only that but, during this time Jim Bob was a state representative and made a run for US senator.  He was elected to the Arkansas House of Representative in 1998 and won reelection in 2000.  Instead of keeping his relatively safe seat, he decided to run for the Senate seat in 2002 (when Josh would have been 14) and lost very badly.  That's the election where he put the quarter of a million dollars he had saved up into the campaign -- while his huge family was still living in the rental house with three bedrooms.

He and the family were starting to get attention then and that's when he seemed to decide that monetizing the family for public consumption was a good idea.  Thinking about it now, I'm stunned that he and Michelle were just pretending that Josh was okay through all this.  Were they just that clueless?  Were they thinking they could pray it all away?  What?

Eventually, it seemed to occur to Jim Bob that maybe Josh had very strong urges and that he needed to get him married off as soon as possible.  How many families did he contact about future brides?  Were there many rejections before he settled on the Kellers?  And what was it?  Were they just fundie enough and just far away enough from Arkansas that he could get by with minimizing stories about Josh?  Were Mike and Suzette just clueless enough to believe him?  Well, that last one is an obvious yes.  I think JB told  them some story about curiosity and pornography and assured them that Josh had turned over a new leaf.  

Once Jim Bob and Michelle roped Anna in, they decided that Josh was her problem.  They didn't ever really try to address the situation nor did they get help for their daughters.  I hope their name is mud from here on out.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Xan

[Giraffe]

5 minutes ago, Xan said:

Not only that but, during this time Jim Bob was a state representative and made a run for US senator.  He was elected to the Arkansas House of Representative in 1998 and won reelection in 2000.  Instead of keeping his relatively safe seat, he decided to run for the Senate seat in 2002 (when Josh would have been 14) and lost very badly.  That's the election where he put the quarter of a million dollars he had saved up into the campaign -- while his huge family was still living in the rental house with three bedrooms.

Shows how exacting and dismissive JB & Michelle truly are. Disgusting. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

45 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Pickles seems to be raging about Derick being sent by JB as some sort of minder for Anna.

 

Of all people, why would Pickles think Derick would do anything for JB? Or that JB would ask him to. He and Jill have been very public about how they have been treated and even had to sue (or at least threaten to) to get their money from JB.  I can see no scenario where JB would go from "Derick, I banish you and your wife/my daughter from my house" to "Derick, I trust you completely to make sure Anna stays in line and doesn't make me look bad." Pickles is either insane or just going for clicks at this point.

I personally think JB is hedging his bets and has forbid those under his control from attending the trial.  He doesn't want to show support or bring attention and publicity to this, especially with the campaign underway.  He has to know Josh will be found guilty.  The farther he steps back now the easier it will be to fully distance himself from Josh in the public's eye (in his opinion; we will never forget).  If on the off chance Smuggar beats this, then JB can call himself the hero for standing by his son by paying for the defense.  It's the closest thing to a win/win JB has in his warped circle.

 

[Shrubbery]

Ugh, I forgot that back then, when he wasn’t humping M, JB was being a politician (/sarcasm).

Just think about how much therapy for the girls as well as Josh that money could have bought. (Or paid for a boarding school for Josh, or whatever might have been helpful …)

[Queen Of Hearts]

FYI, on Reddit there is an AMA from a lady who says she has been attending the trial and has sat behind the Duggar tow. She said everyone has kept their composure (which would be another nail in the FW coffin if credibility).  I have not read through it all yet but so far it looks credible.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

20 minutes ago, Trainwreck said:

sorry if this has already been addressed, but what's really sticking out to me is that Josh downloaded TOR/Linux and CSAM all within an hour. It just seems like he knew exactly where to find what he was looking for. Does he have IRL pedo friends that showed him (barf!) or is this material that accessible (double barf!)

These kind of crimes are rarely caught the first time.  It would be incredulous to think this was his first time.

[The Mother Dust]

Does anyone know if in federal cases with these types of charges,  if the convict is still eligible for time off the sentence for good behavior?  ETA.... I could see Josh being cunning enough to mind his behavior in prison if that was a carrot.  

Edited December 4, 2021 by The Mother Dust

[MomJeans]

4 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

Does anyone know if in federal cases with these types of charges,  if the convict is still eligible for time off the sentence for good behavior?  ETA.... I could see Josh being cunning enough to mind his behavior in prison if that was a carrot.  

Unlike state, federal convicts have to serve the majority of their sentences.  Not all, but nearly all.  

Behaving in prison will get him privileges, such as access to library books and educational classes.  

31 minutes ago, Trainwreck said:

sorry if this has already been addressed, but what's really sticking out to me is that Josh downloaded TOR/Linux and CSAM all within an hour. It just seems like he knew exactly where to find what he was looking for. Does he have IRL pedo friends that showed him (barf!) or is this material that accessible (double barf!)

I hypothesize that Josh has likely been downloading CSAM for years. That day in May at the car lot he accidentally didn't take all the precautions he usually took.  I think he realized that he screwed up pretty quickly, because he then stopped viewing the images on that computer after about 3 days, and later on tried to delete them.  When the HS agents showed up, that's why he blurted out "is this about child porn"? He had been sweating it for some time.  Not because it was the first time he did it.  But because he knew he forget to cover his tracks correctly.

Just my speculation. 

[FiveAcres]

13 minutes ago, Trainwreck said:

sorry if this has already been addressed, but what's really sticking out to me is that Josh downloaded TOR/Linux and CSAM all within an hour. It just seems like he knew exactly where to find what he was looking for. Does he have IRL pedo friends that showed him (barf!) or is this material that accessible (double barf!)

My guess would be that he had done it before without getting caught on another system. 

I rebuild my computer desktop every couple of years using Ubuntu Linux. The most recent time was a friend gave me a relatively new computer with a failed hard drive. I swapped out the failed hard drive with a working drive, and did a clean install of the operating system. I always surprises me how quickly the actual installation goes and how long it takes to install my files from my backup. Josh only did the installation: he was getting the files he wanted off the dark web and not from a backup. 

And, unfortunately, I think the stuff is pretty accessible if you are willing to do the searches for it. (I am pretty circumspect in my searches, especially considering I have wideranging and sometimes weird interests. If one of your interests is the intersection between religion and abuse, it can lead to some pretty dark places.) 

[SPHASH]

20 minutes ago, MomJeans said:

Unlike state, federal convicts have to serve the majority of their sentences.  Not all, but nearly all.  

Behaving in prison will get him privileges, such as access to library books and educational classes.  

Federal inmates have to serve 85% of their sentences in prison then 15% under house arrest.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, FiveAcres said:

My guess would be that he had done it before without getting caught on another system. 

I rebuild my computer desktop every couple of years using Ubuntu Linux. The most recent time was a friend gave me a relatively new computer with a failed hard drive. I swapped out the failed hard drive with a working drive, and did a clean install of the operating system. I always surprises me how quickly the actual installation goes and how long it takes to install my files from my backup. Josh only did the installation: he was getting the files he wanted off the dark web and not from a backup. 

And, unfortunately, I think the stuff is pretty accessible if you are willing to do the searches for it. (I am pretty circumspect in my searches, especially considering I have wideranging and sometimes weird interests. If one of your interests is the intersection between religion and abuse, it can lead to some pretty dark places.) 

In the past when I've installed Linus partitions (anyone remember Puppy Linux?  Just me?) as a Windows admin I was shocked how fast the install was.  An hour is more than enough time for what he did.

 

[waltraute]

What happens if Josh is fined but then doesn't pay? I don't think JB will willingly pay a government that just incarcerated his son and I can't imagine that a parent (of an adult) would be on the hook to pay even though the parent clearly has money and paid for the defense.

Any money or property in Josh's name has probably been moved and redistributed so what would happen if possible fines are never paid? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

21 minutes ago, MomJeans said:

But because he knew he forget to cover his tracks correctly.

IMO it's because he downloaded files with hashes being watched by the feds.  More luck than skill that he got away with it before.  He even asked during the raid if his IP was marked.  Why would someone who has never run a network immediately go there? 

2 minutes ago, waltraute said:

What happens if Josh is fined but then doesn't pay? I don't think JB will willingly pay a government that just incarcerated his son and I can't imagine that a parent (of an adult) would be on the hook to pay even though the parent clearly has money and paid for the defense.

Any money or property in Josh's name has probably been moved and redistributed so what would happen if possible fines are never paid? 

It's all in Anna's name since the raid, Idk if JB is on there as well but they moved the properties out of Josh's name so in a legal sense he has no assets.  From what I've read they don't often fine if the person has nothing to take, can someone else confirm?  And he's an adult so they can't go after his parents for it and they can't go after Anna's properties even though she's a spouse, because the fine is part of a criminal penalty and she has a constitutional right to not be punished for a crime she didn't commit.

[onekidanddone]

7 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I thought the only Duggars working at the car lot were Josiah and Joseph. Did Jed! work there?

Also David Waller doesn't have a brother named Michael. His brother, who is testifying, is Matthew. 

 

Was Jed’s campaign slogan really Jed!

 If so he stole it from Jeb! Bush. 

[FiveAcres]

Since we are getting all nerdy here, does anyone know what a marked IP in the sense Josh used it mean? I can't find the proper search terms to make Google tell me. (I took a work offered class in the TCP/IP years ago and decided it was not an area of technology I was interested in pursuing.) 

Edited to add:  I found it. A marked IP address is on a blacklist, perhaps because one of the Internet monitoring services have identified it as a bad actor. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by FiveAcres

[onekidanddone]

5 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I wonder which route Jed will go down?
Jim Bob amnesia?
Defence prompted new facts? Didn’t work well for the Waller boy.
Stick to whatever he told investigators?

If he still has political ambitions he’s going to have to think very carefully.

Or taking the fall for the first board favorite son. Have we discussed that? I could see JB ordering one of the lesser sons to do so. Does the ‘instantly obey’. model end at 18 or marriage?