(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 40 : Hope NWA Has Enough Booze* to Get the Jurors Through the Weekend

[Idlewild]

I wonder which route Jed will go down?
Jim Bob amnesia?
Defence prompted new facts? Didn’t work well for the Waller boy.
Stick to whatever he told investigators?

If he still has political ambitions he’s going to have to think very carefully.

[3KidsAndStopped]

I suppose the defence hasn't got into full swing yet and these titbits may be brought together in a cogent argument. Or he may still enter a plea.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

On a shallow note what is it about him and JD looking sweaty and greasy at all times.  They always look like they smell.

My husband has a greasy forehead and he hates it. He’s not greasy anywhere else. It’s just the forehead. It’s weird but I still love him 😉

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Someone specifically asked for clarification in the FW comments on the master court thread whether Mrs holt testified or not because the sun didn’t mention it. That person (FW’s source) has limited comments for posting and answered in her edit in her actual thread . After update #16.
 

paraphrasing here: She clarified that the prosecution team relayed pieces of Mrs holts monday testimony to expand on their own opening statements. They technically count as testimony, and Mrs holt will be taking the stand when court resumes next week.
 

Sounds like everyone thought she’d get to say her piece today but the defense kept trying to argue that the toll booth computer could have been hacked so they and prosecution went back and forth a lot there. 

Did anyone question why they went from saying Bobye Holt was currently testifying and saying new stuff that is shocking, to saying it was a recorded testimony, to finally saying the prosecution just used some of the things she said on Monday in their opening statements even though no one else reported Mrs. Holt saying these particular shocking things on Monday? I just think until the story of the Holts telling JB to buy a bigger house or those other things that came from FW are confirmed in another place, they shouldn’t be treated as facts. This doesn’t sound like a reliable narrator. It sounds like they kept changing the story every time they were called out.

The Sun was there Monday(and yesterday) and would have reported the Holts telling JB to get a bigger house so their son would stop assaulting their daughters. 

[FunFunFundie]

18 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Did anyone question why they went from saying Bobye Holt was currently testifying and saying new stuff that is shocking, to saying it was a recorded testimony, to finally saying the prosecution just used some of the things she said on Monday in their opening statements even though no one else reported Mrs. Holt saying these particular shocking things on Monday? I just think until the story of the Holts telling JB to buy a bigger house or those other things that came from FW are confirmed in another place, they shouldn’t be treated as facts. This doesn’t sound like a reliable narrator. It sounds like they kept changing the story every time they were called out.

The Sun was there Monday(and yesterday) and would have reported the Holts telling JB to get a bigger house so their son would stop assaulting their daughters. 

I’m not in the group, but it seems like they thought Bobye would testify, they guessed at Bobye would say, and they reported it as having happened. 

[St.Clara]

7 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

The thing with #4 is the sisters were abused while they were under the protection of their parents. So that blows that argument out of the water.  
 

I cannot bring myself to reading all the details of Gothard´s „teaching“ because of the victim blaming but if I understand it right, all the „good things“ only apply if the victim was not „at fault“. So the sisters would be safe under the protection of their parents only if they themselves are „pure“. It follows that if they were assaulted in spite of being under the protection of their parents, they must have done something wrong in order to invite the abuse. Likewise, if they do not feel the alleged compensation for the abuse, like greater faith, enthusiasm, energy, joy etc., that just means they do not deserve them because they were „at fault“.

This is horribly clever because there is no legitimized way here a victim would ever get to confront their abuser. Either they don´t feel the need because God „compensated“ them or if they feel the need this just shows that it was their own fault that it happened.

If I believed in the existence of Satan (which I do not), I´d think this was his idea.

[formergothardite]

6 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

I’m not in the group, but it seems like they thought Bobye would testify, they guessed at Bobye would say, and they reported it as having happened. 

So they lied and passed off their speculation as being facts? There is so much truly awful facts in this situation that I hate people are making up stuff so they can get attention. The last thing this horrific case needs is a bunch of speculation being circulated as facts. 

 

[SunnySide]

In regards to either Josh or Anna filing for divorce eventually. No matter the faith/culture/background the statistics for people in prison getting divorced while incarcerated are staggeringly high. If you are married and serve a sentence of more than two years chances aren’t you won’t be married when you leave. Whether it’s the inmate or the person on the outside filing, odds are prison (eventually) breaks up your marriage. With these two I gotta say “who the hell knows”? It’s anybody's guess. I feel like if Anna hasn’t left yet she never will, but part of me also hopes that someday she sees the light, files for divorce, takes the kids and runs like hell in the other direction. She’s had siblings publicly offer to help her and get her out of fundiehood. It’s not like she’d have no resources.

[Freejin]

Maybe someone with a background in criminal justice or psychology can explain this to me:

what is going on in a person’s psyche when they know they have done what they are accused of but sit through a trial claiming they are not guilty? How do they process that psychologically? And what happens if there is a guilty verdict? Does that person have a come to Jesus moment, so to speak, where they acknowledge it to themselves?

[Tatar-tot]

5 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I wonder if Pest's slimy attitude and shit eating grin are because he's going to get away from the marriage and family he never really wanted. He'll have opportunities to gain an education, and after 10-15 years, most of the M kids will be late teens aged and close to zero chance of Anna getting knocked up again. However, I'm thinking Perv is going to wait a little while and file for divorce. If Anna files, JB will go after her but if Pervert files, it's a different story. 

Would not surprise me at all if he jumped on to a motorcycle after release from prison and moved to somewhere like Alaska where he could just blend in and disappear.  He has been done with Anna for a long time.  Both of them need to move on apart from one another.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Tatar-tot

[FiveAcres]

53 minutes ago, St.Clara said:

I cannot bring myself to reading all the details of Gothard´s „teaching“ because of the victim blaming but if I understand it right, all the „good things“ only apply if the victim was not „at fault“. So the sisters would be safe under the protection of their parents only if they themselves are „pure“. It follows that if they were assaulted in spite of being under the protection of their parents, they must have done something wrong in order to invite the abuse. Likewise, if they do not feel the alleged compensation for the abuse, like greater faith, enthusiasm, energy, joy etc., that just means they do not deserve them because they were „at fault“.

This is horribly clever because there is no legitimized way here a victim would ever get to confront their abuser. Either they don´t feel the need because God „compensated“ them or if they feel the need this just shows that it was their own fault that it happened.

If I believed in the existence of Satan (which I do not), I´d think this was his idea.

Yes. It's the ultimate mind-fuck. 

[Laura2730]

Did people see the video of Anna and Josh leaving court yesterday? David Waller (Anna's sister Priscilla's husband) was behind them carrying legal documents.

[EvilAthiest]

9 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

It reminded me of how she clung to his arm early on when they were engaged.  There is this one clip where Josh is working a crowd and she is holding on to him for dear life. She looked terrified then and she looked so today. Like a frightened child. 
 

Anna is an adult.  The frightened children were in the CSAM her husband downloaded.  And in her in-laws home.  

[WiseGirl]

For anyone as far behind as me, People mag has a summary of all family members who have attended so far. https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-trial-every-family-member-who-has-attended-so-far/

 

[J'Lurker]

Does incarceration nullify the "covenant" terms of their marriage? Or will Arkansas require marriage counselling first?

[Sister Mozz]

6 minutes ago, J'Lurker said:

Does incarceration nullify the "covenant" terms of their marriage? Or will Arkansas require marriage counselling first?

They don't have a covenant marriage because they were married in Florida. Arkansas is one of the very few states that allow those.

[SamanthasMom]

People need to stop making excuses for Anna. She has siblings that have done better and so does her husband. While this is an extreme example, she is not the first woman to have her husband not pan out like she thought. Most recalibrate, work, limit the number of children and/or leave. She has leaned into this identity including spreading hate towards women in similarly difficult situations.

Yes, she likely has very limited support both emotionally and financially, but her children are children, not her. 

[BernRul]

8 hours ago, usmcmom said:

Regarding the FW account of Bobye Holt’s testimony. The writer does clarify that the prosecutor relayed parts of her earlier testimony, using it to expand on points made in opening statements. She writes that court recordings count as testimony. The Holts are probably going to testify on Monday and actually take the stand. They did not take the stand today. 
 

My understanding of this is that Bobye’s testimony from Monday was actually “heard” by the jury today. 
 

I apologize if this has already been pointed out. Things are moving quickly.  

That still doesn't make sense for a few reasons.

1. Why would they play a recording of Bobye's testimony today? They are not on prior bad acts or motive, only the actual forensics and evidence. It doesn't fit. 

2. Why would they play a recording when she is going to testify in person later? The defense has a right to cross examine her.

3. Why is no one else reporting this?

4. They said Anna cried. The Sun gobbles that shit up. Why would the ignore that drama?

 

It didn't happen thats why. FW is lying. 

[Sister Mozz]

1 hour ago, FunFunFundie said:

I’m not in the group, but it seems like they thought Bobye would testify, they guessed at Bobye would say, and they reported it as having happened. 

This is what I think, too. I did see another reliable source (The Ashley) say Bobye Holt was in attendance and expected to testify yesterday. I think best case scenario is the FW person is connected with the Holts and has insider knowledge of what they will say (see when they earlier spoke of them being on the stand on Wednesday). Worst case scenario? They are making all this up out of whole cloth.

. 

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

This is what I think, too. I did see another reliable source (The Ashley) say Bobye Holt was in attendance and expected to testify yesterday. I think best case scenario is the FW person is connected with the Holts and has insider knowledge of what they will say (see when they earlier spoke of them being on the stand on Wednesday). Worst case scenario? They are making all this up out of whole cloth.

. 

Considering the fact that they seemed to have lied about Anna crying, I think we can safely assume they are just a liar who wanted attention. 

[Idlewild]

@Freejin I used to be a criminal lawyer (albeit in England). Reasons I have seen for pleading not guilty in CSA cases even where the evidence is overwhelming 

Belief that denying it will give them an easier time in the prison system

Pressure from family after they have previously denied it and can’t bear to own up to the truth

Some very sick individuals do not consider it a crime - they are hardcore paedophiles who believe in the sexuality of children ( do yourself a favour and DON’T research this) 

Belief that the prosecution should be put to proof and they may just get away with it

 

I am sure there are others but I think they’re the most common. 

[lizzybee]

10 minutes ago, SamanthasMom said:

People need to stop making excuses for Anna. She has siblings that have done better and so does her husband. While this is an extreme example, she is not the first woman to have her husband not pan out like she thought. Most recalibrate, work, limit the number of children and/or leave. She has leaned into this identity including spreading hate towards women in similarly difficult situations.

Yes, she likely has very limited support both emotionally and financially, but her children are children, not her. 

Agree. I was going over with my husband last night about when she should have walked away. And we decided it was when she found out about his past with his sisters. Whenever that was, that she fully understood what he had done, in particular with the five year old victim, she ought to have thought about potential or existing children of her own and got them well away from that potential danger. Her responsibility is first and foremost to the children who never asked to be there or to have that life. It is her job as a mother to protect and advocate for them, and that should have been the breaking point. The fact that it wasn’t is what is wrong here with her. I feel sympathy because I’m a sympathetic person and I know she has to be in hell right now, but as a mother myself, I hold her fully accountable as a grown woman who has more resources than most to get out of the situation she is in. 

[BernRul]

Anna is a grown up who has more exposure to the world than most people in her cult. Furthermore, she continues to allow Josh around her 4 little girls. She has to date:

Allowed her daughters around Josh after the molestation news came out. 

Gotten pregnant and willingly given birth to 3 children after this became public, including 2 girls. 

Willingly gotten pregnant and given birth to a baby girl AFTER Josh's work was raided by the FBI for God's sake.  

How is she different from Michelle again? 

[Idlewild]

Pickles seems to be raging about Derick being sent by JB as some sort of minder for Anna.

These pages will attest to the fact I have little time for Derick, but one thing I don’t see him doing is JB’s bidding. If he is being kind to Anna it is either because he knows what’s coming and feels sorry for her or just common courtesy.

[displayname]

Yeah I feel bad for the 20 year old Anna who was pretty much manipulated into a marrying Josh, but I have very little sympathy for the Anna who has all the facts in her face and chooses to turn a blind eye.